6 hours ago, Dan O said:

Im surprised at your explanation Todd

don't be,
It is what it is, I tried to give an overview of how it can work (and does work for THOUSANDS of foreigners) when you use an agent that banks the funds for you

Now with that being said, you can indeed get caught out the following year trying to push your own paper because you didn't meet the seasoning requirements of the extension you're on that was 'agent gotten' (issued at the discretion of the officer). That is just a cost of doing business

19 minutes ago, Tod Daniels said:

I think the main point people are missing in this "is it or isn't it conundrum

The exact language from the Police Order is:

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand.

The discretion part of the above if often cited but NOT the legitimate reason part.

Just so everyone is clear, I have no dog in this fight, I am only weighing in on how they work, how you can get caught out trying to come off agent gotten stamps to stamps of your own doing, and the overall process.

You wanna use an agent, go into it with your eyes open, know who you're dealing with, and best of luck to you with it

You don't wanna use an agent, good on you, get your sh*t together, go apply and push your own paper for your own extension,

Believe me it is not brain science or rocket surgery. Any knuckle dragging foreigner here (even ones wading in the shallow end of the gene pool) can get the documentation together, fill out the forms, make the copies, and get their own visa/extension IF they put their minds to it

I've pretty much weighed in with about all the constructive stuff I can add to this thread.

25 minutes ago, JerryM said:

The discretion part of the above if often cited but NOT the legitimate reason part.

Unless the law also says what "legitimate" is, that part is irrelevant. It's left up to the immigration officer's discretion to determine what legitimate means. So if the office determines 10,000 baht backhander means it's legitimate, then it is.

14 minutes ago, BrandonJT said:

Unless the law also says what "legitimate" is, that part is irrelevant.

There is precedent that it has been used for humanitarian issues.

And whatever discretion was deployed or not in the decision to issue a one year extension under Section 35 of the Immigration Act ,payment of fees as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations. namely Section 35 fee is 2000 baht.,

3 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

I think the main point people are missing in this "is it or isn't it conundrum

ANY visa/extension can be issued whether you meet the requirements or not under that clause in the rules that says "OR under the authority of the issuing officer" <- meaning IF the person whose stamping your passport (the issuing officer) says you can have the visa/extension then you can whether you follow the posted rules or not.

Thats a real stretch if thats the position you want to present but it doesnt hold up.

4 hours ago, Dan O said:

Thats a real stretch if thats the position you want to present but it doesnt hold up.

How does it not hold up? It's the same reason immigration offices can make up their own rules if they want. They are the ones who get to decide whether or not to issue a visa/extension and under what criteria. They can both add AND remove criteria at their discretion.

1 hour ago, BrandonJT said:

How does it not hold up? It's the same reason immigration offices can make up their own rules if they want. They are the ones who get to decide whether or not to issue a visa/extension and under what criteria. They can both add AND remove criteria at their discretion.

Kinda ignores the original point, the IO is not going to issue the extension, then the following year look back and cancel the one from a year ago, makes no sense

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Kinda ignores the original point, the IO is not going to issue the extension, then the following year look back and cancel the one from a year ago, makes no sense

No one said they were going to cancel the one from a year ago, not that I saw. They were talking about not being able to do the FOLLOWING year's extension without using an agent. That's very normal for immigration. If they saw you used an agent last year, they will tell you to go back and use an agent again this year. There are some potential ways to get off of it without leaving Thailand and starting over if you plan well ahead, but the simplest way is going to be to break your extension and start over with a new non-O.

2 hours ago, BrandonJT said:

How does it not hold up? It's the same reason immigration offices can make up their own rules if they want. They are the ones who get to decide whether or not to issue a visa/extension and under what criteria. They can both add AND remove criteria at their discretion.

So if that is true then IMM can say just forget about all that agent 'plausible deniability' nonsense and the 800K nanosecond deposit 'proof of finances', Just come see us and tell us what extension of stay you want and we will tell you how much it costs.

'Cause we can make or ignore any regulation we want and interpret any regulation any way we want -- we have discretion on our discretion.

3 minutes ago, JerryM said:

So if that is true then IMM can say just forget about all that agent 'plausible deniability' nonsense and the 800K nanosecond deposit 'proof of finances', Just come see us and tell us what extension of stay you want and we will tell you how much it costs.

'Cause we can make or ignore any regulation we want and interpret any regulation any way we want -- we have discretion on our discretion.

There are some immigration offices that don't even bother with agents. If you don't meet the requirements they just say "go to this room/counter" and you work it out right there and then for a fee. So yes, you're exactly right.

So bank mangers are approving 5minute phony 'proof of finances' statements for no reason.

4 hours ago, BrandonJT said:

How does it not hold up? It's the same reason immigration offices can make up their own rules if they want. They are the ones who get to decide whether or not to issue a visa/extension and under what criteria. They can both add AND remove criteria at their discretion.

If it where a legal approval there would be no issue to go away from an agent and have issues to renew without being denied due to no bank verification for financial at the application for extension. Theres also false bank verification by the agent and the direct bribe\payment to the bank and the agent.

2 hours ago, JerryM said:

'Cause we can make or ignore any regulation we want and interpret any regulation any way we want -- we have discretion on our discretion.

In essence, while such regulatory discretion allows for quick, tailored actions, it simultaneously creates a "culture of noncompliance," where individuals may follow suit and disregard regulations themselves.

If Thailand wants to increase regulations compliance and consequently mitigate corruption, they should start monitoring and strictly frame and regulate "discretion".

10 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

If Thailand wants to increase regulations compliance and consequently mitigate corruption, they should start monitoring and strictly frame and regulate "discretion".

The regs are already there.

RTP Immigration arrest thyself ain't gonna happen. It has to come from somewhere else.

5 hours ago, BrandonJT said:

They are the ones who get to decide whether or not to issue a visa/extension and under what criteria. They can both add AND remove criteria at their discretion.

Last time I heard an explanation like that it was for the Infallibility of the Pope.

And I will not comment further as it has been stated: comments re legality or not of agents will be removed as off topic. I will presume that includes Immigration offices and personnel.

13 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

In essence, while such regulatory discretion allows for quick, tailored actions, it simultaneously creates a "culture of noncompliance," where individuals may follow suit and disregard regulations themselves.

If Thailand wants to increase regulations compliance and consequently mitigate corruption, they should start monitoring and strictly frame and regulate

Imm officer use of "discretion" isnt much different than almost every country in the world. Imm officers access the person and make a judgement call. Same in almost every country.

The real issue is thailand has always been more relaxed and with more options to enter easily. But when someone gets denied for being shady or suspicious immediately the officers are "making up the rules" Are there exceptions and corruption yes but compared to the sheer numbers visiting thailand every year its the ln the lesser side.

8 hours ago, BrandonJT said:

No one said they were going to cancel the one from a year ago, not that I saw. They were talking about not being able to do the FOLLOWING year's extension without using an agent. That's very normal for immigration. If they saw you used an agent last year, they will tell you to go back and use an agent again this year. There are some potential ways to get off of it without leaving Thailand and starting over if you plan well ahead, but the simplest way is going to be to break your extension and start over with a new non-O.

ok I'll say it again, the financials are correct for 12-13 months since last years signed off extension, so fully compliant with the financials, so I don't see why the IO would say they not acceptable, it's the same IO who signed it off not another province, maybe you can explain it? they signed off mine quiet rightly because everything was correct

21 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

don't be,
It is what it is, I tried to give an overview of how it can work (and does work for THOUSANDS of foreigners) when you use an agent that banks the funds for you

Now with that being said, you can indeed get caught out the following year trying to push your own paper because you didn't meet the seasoning requirements of the extension you're on that was 'agent gotten' (issued at the discretion of the officer). That is just a cost of doing business

thats not accurate and you know it Todd. if it were you wouldnt have an issue if you move away from an agent because it was "issued at a officers discretion". The bribe at the bank for false documentation and the bribe to imm makes it illegal. Can you do yeah, I never said you couldnt, is it legal, no.

Off topic post removed (again)

The OP asked specific question.

Legality of agent off topic

10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

ok I'll say it again, the financials are correct for 12-13 months since last years signed off extension, so fully compliant with the financials, so I don't see why the IO would say they not acceptable, it's the same IO who signed it off not another province, maybe you can explain it? they signed off mine quiet rightly because everything was correct

I can't tell if you're joking, or just naive.

Why reject it the next year? BECAUSE THEY WANT THE MONEY. They know you're willing to pay, so now they have you on the hook. Pay to play or leave. It's pretty simple.

4 hours ago, BrandonJT said:

I can't tell if you're joking, or just naive.

Why reject it the next year? BECAUSE THEY WANT THE MONEY. They know you're willing to pay, so now they have you on the hook. Pay to play or leave. It's pretty simple.

that's not a good argument, in my experience they only flag up real issues, missing docs, passbook not updated, financials not correct, etc They DON'T just make things up, so i still don't see a good reason yet why it wouldn't be accepted, try again?

With changing from agent to DIY.

That is possible however depends on where stamps were issued.

Pattaya is good example.

Many folk there use agent and actually attend immigration with agent even if just for photo.

With a year of correct financials it's possible to DIY.

The issue is that many folk use agents that obtain stamp out of province of where they actually live.

Even with doing a TM30 and then trying to opt out of use of agent the immigration office can refuse.

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

With changing from agent to DIY.

That is possible however depends on where stamps were issued.

Pattaya is good example.

Many folk there use agent and actually attend immigration with agent even if just for photo.

With a year of correct financials it's possible to DIY.

The issue is that many folk use agents that obtain stamp out of province of where they actually live.

Even with doing a TM30 and then trying to opt out of use of agent the immigration office can refuse.

Yes i can see that being an issue and an excuse to push people to agents again

On 3/31/2026 at 7:08 PM, BrandonJT said:

Unless the law also says what "legitimate" is, that part is irrelevant.

That language has been around since 2008 and there is clear precedent as to what it means and doesn't mean.

10 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Off topic post removed (again)

The OP asked specific question.

Legality of agent off topic

I guess I'm not supposed to comment on a moderator's input -- but the OP asked if he might have DIY problems if his previous extension was done with an agent. The responses consistently say: Not if you used an "above board" agent. But you might if you use the 'other kind', the kind that uses fraudulent methods to obtain your extension. To me this definitely smacks of the legality question of an agent. But maybe "legality" is defined differently in my American lexicon.......

Immigration officer/cop just bought my mates house in Phuket paid 22mil cash

They dont earn thst from legally submitted visa extensiins

On 3/28/2026 at 4:55 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Immigration love it if you use an agent, they oil the cogs for everyone else, you get treated like a VIP unlike if you DIY, i DIY but originally used an agent, the difference is massive

On 3/28/2026 at 4:55 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Immigration love it if you use an agent, they oil the cogs for everyone else, you get treated like a VIP unlike if you DIY, i DIY but originally used an agent, the difference is massive

On 3/28/2026 at 4:55 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Immigration love it if you use an agent, they oil the cogs for everyone else, you get treated like a VIP unlike if you DIY, i DIY but originally used an agent, the difference is massive

I understand that some people love to have someone else "grease" the whole process with immigration or whatever. I myself, over 40 years here have ALWAYS done it all by myself for myself satisfaction. I have gone through different immigration offices (BKK and CM) which have been in different localities during my 40 years, have had several different visas, have had my embassy drop any and all support for any of those visas, have waited in lines during early AM mornings just to get a queue ticket to get in line for a queue ticket to see an agent and yet, I still do any and all of my necessary visits with immigration. I do not plan on any changes for my remaining years and just await the possible visa changes to be made by any new government...the same with taxes. But, if one wishes to go through an agency, that is fine with me too.

2 hours ago, pest said:

Immigration officer/cop just bought my mates house in Phuket paid 22mil cash

They dont earn thst from legally submitted visa extensiins

cash... so no visit at the land department ? no chanote ? and your mate (non thai) owned land ?

On 3/30/2026 at 7:52 AM, Tod Daniels said:

Parroting that comment over and over does not lend any more credibility to your claim...☹️

If an agent banked the money for you and you didn't have your own 800k already in the bank to meet the seasoning requirements (800k for 3 months after the extension was granted and then never before 400k the rest of the year) when you submit your documentation for the next extension immigrations would see that by the year detail transaction report you are required to turn in.

Also your "I haven't seen one post" comment doesn't cut any ice either..

I know more than a few people who came off the rails trying to go from under the table agent gotten visa/extensions to above the table extensions on their own.

Most either had to pay a "special free" to pull it off or had to leave, get off the agent gotten stamps and either get a new non O at a nearby consulate, or come back in free stamp and apply for the non o in country and after that the new year extension.

It's definitely not as easy as your make it out to be getting off that slippery slope of agent gotten extensions..

There have been reports (from Integrity Legal anyway) of difficulties in obtaining a non-O at embassies in the region, applications being scrutinized, rejections not uncommon. Can anyone verify that?