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Iran rejects Trump's foul-mouthed demand to reopen Strait...

The essential oil waterway will "never return to its former state, especially for America and Israel", Iranian forces have said.

Mullahs says Hormuz will never open the same

Note the words' America and Israel'.

It may well open with tariffs for a considerable part of the rest of the world.

No question that the two morons opened a hornets nest, and who knows how long it's going to be until things normalize, if they ever do.

This could be the end of the world economy as we know it. And that could have been the intention of the Deep State when they pulled Dumb Don's puppets strings.

4 minutes ago, bannork said:

Note the words' America and Israel'.

It may well open with tariffs for a considerable part of the rest of the world.

Yeah , nope

We'll open it back up and not let some Islamic fanatics control the flow of liquid gold.

Allah Willing

America has their own oil. These ships are going to Singapore and nations like Thailand.

4 minutes ago, PhilipHabib said:

Yeah , nope

We'll open it back up and not let some Islamic fanatics control the flow of liquid gold.

Allah Willing

Let's see. The Christian Nationalist fanatics screwed up, resulting in the closure of the Strait but in spite of their firepower they're very averse to casualties, unlike the Islamic fanatics.

This is their Achilles heel, or should I say bone spurs.

Just now, Rockyroad said:

America has their own oil. These ships are going to Singapore and nations like Thailand.

True but US oil prices have gone up due to oil being a globally traded commodity

19 minutes ago, bannork said:

True but US oil prices have gone up due to oil being a globally traded commodity

Which makes oil companies more profits which is why they like wars on a regular basis. The rich CEOs don't suffer at all. They profit and we pay for it. It is all 3D game of Monopoly.

40 minutes ago, bannork said:

Note the words' America and Israel'.

It may well open with tariffs for a considerable part of the rest of the world.

Has already started.

OP came up with a pretty misleading title.

Nowhere in the article is there reference to the "Mullahs" saying the Straits of Hormuz will never open.

Its simply a repeat of the same news stories that's been going around.

Re-opening of the strait will, in Iran's view, be conditional

Selected shipping is already proceeding through the Straits, with or without payment of a toll. it is impossible for an ships to transit through the Straits without entering either Iranian or Omani territorial waters.

Iran and Oman, which controls the enclave headlands controlling the southern part part of the straits are having mutual discussions, at a ministerial level, concerning the Straits.

"Transit Passage" is something codified in the 1982 UNCLOS agreement, whuch replaced a 1958 Geneva Agreement. The Law of the Sea Convention of 1982 declares that passage is "innocent" so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order, or security of the coastal state. Non-innocent passage can be stopped.

The US and Iran have both signed the 1982 agreement, but both countries refuse to ratify it. The US (principally Republicans) won't ratify it due to concerns about impacts on national sovereignty, ie the passage of shipping through US waters. UNCLOS includes numerous exceptions to Transit Passage based on historic custom, eg the Bosphorous.

The US is screaming about defending rights enshrined in a treaty it refuses to ratify. Very laudable sticking up for international agreements it disagrees with. Look forward to the US reversing its position on the ICC, the WTO and returning to the GATT.

Contrary to most reading, the UNCLOS agreement does allow countries to levy charges on shipping transiting through their national waters. The agreement allows for charges related to environmental and regulatory concerns, eg ship ballast water is known to be a major source of pollution, someone has to pay for the shipping lane marker buoys. Its a grey area. Charges are levied through the Straits of Malacca without a threat of nuclear war. Its a grey area. Denmark uses its Straits rights to restrict the movement of Russian shipping through its waters.

Basically, UNCLOS isn't the be all and end all. Its an international agreement, and like all international treaties can be modifed, added to, torn up.

Historical precedence; prior to the arrival of the Portugeuse, the Kingdom of Hormuz controlled the straits. They levied essentially customs charges and port fees on traders calling at their port. The Portuguese arrived, and saw a massive business opportunity. They seized Aden, Oman and then Hormuz to completely control Indian Ociean trade, to fuel Portuguese India. They massivily reinforced the islands around the straits (castles are still there), and levied tolls so lucrative, that Hormuz tolls became the biggest single source of income for Portuguese India. They did this for 130 years until a joint Engish East India Company-Persian expeditions pushed them out.

Afterwards, while a formal toll was eliminated, the Persian allies of the English, the Safavid's, continued to levy customs duties on shipping. In Oman, the local rulers obtained payment from ships stopping by. Over the next 200 years, the charges were gradually eliminated, by the British.

The Americans are correct in one respect; the importance of the Straits of Hormuz is declining, both due to alternative sources of oil, but also the decline in the importance of oil. The Arab states are facing the same challenges as Singapore. Singapore was only important as a coaling station for the Royal Navy. When the Royal Navy stopped using coal, Singapore reinvented itself, successfully. 40+ years ago, Bahrain invested in a aluminium processing plant. Bahrain has no natural source of aluminium. Instead, the plant processes imported scrap aluminium, and exports the ingots. Bahrain was the first country in the Gulf to discover oil, and the first to stop oil exports as the oil ran out. The Ruling family figured processing scrap was a way to defend against a decline in GDP. The UAE is looking more at the Financial Services industry. Qatar, Saud Arabia, are looking at AI and server farms.

I think its more likely that UNCLOS 82 will be broken. World free trade is already broken due to the American policy of using tariffs as a cornerstone of fiscal policy (the American leadership hopes to reduce or eliminate taxation by using tariff income). The Americans may well bomb, but they will fail in the objective, and will likely commit war crimes along the way. One wonders why they are deciding to target hinterland infrastructure rather than pulverizing the main assets that are the reason why Iran can close the Straits. By their own admission, the Americans haven't targeted the anti-shipping missile batteries, because they haven't had the time, echos of Goering's terrible strategy of abandoning attacks of RAF airfields and switching to attacking British cities as an attempt to secure victory.

Better not show the American President this map. Its a map of the world not showing national borders, but territorial control. Check Gulf of Mexico. Its mostly not American. Imagine if the Americans decided they could make a lot of money monetizing the Florida Straits, or when the Northwest Passage opens up, doing the same with the Bering Straits, or or around the Aleutian Islands.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/territorial-map-of-world/

1 hour ago, Rockyroad said:

America has their own oil. These ships are going to Singapore and nations like Thailand.

Sell that self-sufficiency trope to the US voters in the frozen northeast in winter time when the US needs to import oil because their substandard domestic infrastructure can't handle their seasonal demands.

58 minutes ago, Rockyroad said:

Which makes oil companies more profits which is why they like wars on a regular basis. The rich CEOs don't suffer at all. They profit and we pay for it. It is all 3D game of Monopoly.

So this war is all ExxonMobil's fault?

26 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Sell that self-sufficiency trope to the US voters in the frozen northeast in winter time when the US needs to import oil because their substandard domestic infrastructure can't handle their seasonal demands.

As if you care about any of these people.

10 minutes ago, Rockyroad said:

As if you care about any of these people.

Where did I suggest I care?

crickets...

1 hour ago, Rockyroad said:

Which makes oil companies more profits which is why they like wars on a regular basis. The rich CEOs don't suffer at all. They profit and we pay for it. It is all 3D game of Monopoly.

That's the funny part - US energy companies actually benefit from the higher oil prices, and the US is now positioned as the #1 supplier for the majority of the world. While it might not be good for consumers and inflation, I'm pretty sure the government benefits from it and even more so in the long term if US and Venezuela production capacity increases. In the short term everybody is scared of an oil shortage, but in the long term if Hormuz stays closed (which it won't) it just means the Middle East will be poorer and America will be richer.

3 hours ago, Rockyroad said:

America has their own oil.

60% of it supplied by Canada.

2 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

60% of it supplied by Canada.

Which is right next door and a long way from Iran.

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

So this war is all ExxonMobil's fault?

If you need to point the finger at anyone for this mess, Obama is as good as anyone. He enriched the religious nutters and gave the green light for them developing nukes for terrorist purposes. Trump/Isreal are just sweeping up the lefts mess.

42 minutes ago, Rockyroad said:

Which is right next door and a long way from Iran.

You reckon he’s going to invade Canada next?

Anything is possible , he’s gone as senile as poor old Joe.

Lets parrot Iranian propaganda time

1 hour ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

1That's the funny part - US energy companies actually benefit from the higher oil prices, and the US is now positioned as the #1 supplier for the majority of the world. While it might not be good for consumers and inflation, I'm pretty sure the government benefits from it and even more so in the long term if US and Venezuela production capacity increases. In the short term everybody is scared of an oil shortage, but in the long term if Hormuz stays closed (which it won't) it just means the Middle East will be poorer and America will be richer.

Your "pretty sure" opinion reflects all the confidence and assuredness of a Truth Social mission statement or a White House press briefing.

Nobody benefits, especially the consumer. Oil company profits soar, government imposed windfall taxes kick in, and the government then spaffs your bonus on boondoggles, boot filling and pork barrel politicking.

Oil is just another commodity on a global spot market. The prices have gone up everywhere. If you haven't noticed, it's the USA that has s__t the bed again, and the whole world, including American consumers, has to lie in it.

25 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

If you need to point the finger at anyone for this mess, Obama is as good as anyone. He enriched the religious nutters and gave the green light for them developing nukes for terrorist purposes. Trump/Isreal are just sweeping up the lefts mess.

Prior to the present war, the Strait of Hormuz has never been closed to maritime traffic. Now it is.

No amount of look over there can obscure the fact Trump and Israel started a war where one of the outcomes was entirely predictable.

Your post is utter BS, I am used to that from you. Reality - this is Trump's mess, and he is frantically looking for an exit. The mullahs won't let him have it.

34 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

If you need to point the finger at anyone for this mess, Obama is as good as anyone. He enriched the religious nutters and gave the green light for them developing nukes for terrorist purposes. Trump/Isreal are just sweeping up the lefts mess.

You've got a firm grip on something there but unfortunately for us, it's not geopolitics.

Be sure and let us know when you get your happy ending.

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3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Prior to the present war, the Strait of Hormuz has never been closed to maritime traffic. Now it is.

No amount of look over there can obscure the fact Trump and Israel started a war where one of the outcomes was entirely predictable.

Your post is utter BS, I am used to that from you. Reality - this is Trump's mess, and he is frantically looking for an exit. The mullahs won't let him have it.

Correct. So far from the US, we've had almost a dozen variations on the purpose, what's being negotiated and the end game. During the same period, the Iranian's stance hasn't changed.

4 hours ago, Rockyroad said:

America has their own oil. These ships are going to Singapore and nations like Thailand.

Then, how come we in Australia have a shortage of oil

2 hours ago, Rockyroad said:

Which is right next door and a long way from Iran.

My point is that it is not American oil.

13 hours ago, still kicking said:

Then, how come we in Australia have a shortage of oil

Because we sent a support aircraft to the conflict, and have Australians in American bases in the Gulf. Therefore, Iran considers us to be one of the unfriendly countries.

Iran is only letting oil out that goes to neutral countries.

20 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

If you need to point the finger at anyone for this mess, Obama is as good as anyone. He enriched the religious nutters and gave the green light for them developing nukes for terrorist purposes. Trump/Isreal are just sweeping up the lefts mess.

20 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

If you need to point the finger at anyone for this mess, Obama is as good as anyone. He enriched the religious nutters and gave the green light for them developing nukes for terrorist purposes. Trump/Isreal are just sweeping up the lefts mess.

20 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

If you need to point the finger at anyone for this mess, Obama is as good as anyone. He enriched the religious nutters and gave the green light for them developing nukes for terrorist purposes. Trump/Isreal are just sweeping up the lefts mess.

That is a bit of a stretch!

Personally I blame the Three Wise Men! If they hadn't beetled off from Persia following a star around the middle east 2025 years ago, but had stayed at home and got a grip of their own country's problems then we might not be in the state we are now!

21 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

If you need to point the finger at anyone for this mess, Obama is as good as anyone. He enriched the religious nutters and gave the green light for them developing nukes for terrorist purposes. Trump/Isreal are just sweeping up the lefts mess.

Ah, of course. This is all Obama's fault, Trump is in the clear - that makes perfect sense (in your - and only your - head).