5 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Didn't Trump ask them to come in before and they said no? Now Trump is enforcing a blockade to and from Iranian ports they say they're coming in. Bit like the "friend" that stands back from a fight and only comes in once the fight has been won.

Did Trump ask before or after he was getting everyone's backsides kicked after the surprise bombing attacks.

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

It's international waters. Why should anyone pay a toll?

The best, most logical, and simple answer:

a. The world stood by and allowed the Israel, plus the Israel-led USA, to bomb the bejesus out of Iran, with no push-back whatsoever.

b. Therefore, Europe is partially responsible for the destruction in Iran, since Europe did NOTHING.

c. Europe is part of the international community, and so when war-crimes happen, Europe has this responsibility to help make reparations and provide compensation.

d. The toll per ship is just a very small fraction of the cargo.

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Europe is COMPLETELY CLUELESS.

They need to rethink their strategy.

a. They must Stand Up and STOP Israel from bombing its neighbors, including ......EVERYBODY

b. They must STOP the US from shipping bombs and other weaponry to Israel. This might require a blockade, of some sort.

c. They must agree to pay a toll to transit the strait of Hormuz for the foreseeable future, up until the time when Iran has been rebuilt, completely, including all 12 universities destroyed by Israel, and all hospitals and schools.

This is the best way forward.

Or defuse the political nature of it. Establish an internationally governed, authorised Straits Transit Authority, collecting fees on behalf of the local sovereign powers affected by shipping passing through their waters, namely the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Sultanate of Oman. In return for their acceptance of the now outdated 1982 UNCLOS agreement (Iran is a signatory, but like the US, refuses to ratify it), a wealth fund is built and administered, to no cost to each of the sovereign states, which is used for civil, social and healthcare infrastructure improvements. It has shades of the 1937 Treaty of Saadabad, which governed the Shatt Al Arab Waterway, which ultimately compelled Iran to pay tolls to use a waterway it considered to be international waters

3 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

He thought he

"WAS A DOCTOR"

Get this...

"FOR THE RED CROSS"

You know...

"HELPING PEOPLE"

Would you like to buy some Aluminum siding to go over your brick house?

Hahahahaha "25th Amendment" COO COO COO COO

Welp, looks like stupid Americans finally got the Trumpcare Health plan he's been promising "in two weeks" since 2017

So long SUCKERS

🤣

Doctor drainos sounds like a great name for a bar on soi 6.

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Europe is part of the international community, and so when war-crimes happen, Europe has this responsibility to help make reparations and provide compensation.

There is no so called "International Community" anymore now that TRUMP has alienated every ally that the US ever had.

Trump started this mess and he should pay the price to clean up the <deleted> he has caused!

18 minutes ago, blaze master said:

Doctor drainos sounds like a great name for a bar on soi 6.

Or for TRUMP's doctor!

Has Europe taken significant steps forward in achieving this mission?

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

The world stood by and allowed the Israel, plus the Israel-led USA, to bomb the bejesus out of Iran, with no push-back whatsoever.

b. Therefore, Europe is partially responsible for the destruction in Iran, since Europe did NOTHING.

What an idiotic post!

The two paragraphs are totally contradictory!

According to your idiocy if Countries A & B attack Country C then Counties D-Z who did not take part NOR were even consulted or warned beforehand are responsible!

What a load of B.S!

4 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Once again, someone echoing Trump's ignorance. America does have plenty of oil. Not nearly enough to make up for the shortfall. And without the Persian Gulf oil, it's very expensive. Far more than the popularly featured futures market prices. In the old days, there was a saying that "What's good for General Motors is good for the USA." The new MAGA litany is What's good for American OIl, is good for the USA" Somehow I don't think that most of American industry or American consumers are going to buy into that.

Yeah, most don't realize that there are different types of oil with massively diverging sulphur content which all have a different use and require different distillations. North Sea oil for instance is no use at all for cars. Middle East oil is. Of course the US has to import oil.

Trump's is the same cry as the most toxic Breximoronism: ''They need us more than we need them!''

Fools. But like the Brexies, the negative effects are starting to filter through. It's not a nice world to live in once you've left the club of decent, social democratic and enlightened countries, for all our flaws. But it's too late now. It's happening rapidly.

4 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

And while those big guns are booming, Iran will lay waste to infrastructure in the Persian gulf. What's the world economy going to look like in the face of a long term shortfall in fossil fuel production? Well, it should give further impetus to the already fast-paced development of renewable energy resources.

Yes but America's ignorance and failure will make the inevitable victory of sustainable and renewables far far more painful for the world's population than it should have been.

56 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

What an idiotic post!

The two paragraphs are totally contradictory!

According to your idiocy if Countries A & B attack Country C then Counties D-Z who did not take part NOR were even consulted or warned beforehand are responsible!

What a load of B.S!

You should make every effort, IMHO, to not take what you read on TV so....

PERSONALLY.

Try to chill a bit, as well.

You will live longer.

In addition; when you get to university, you will be exposed to many varying and conflicting perspectives, and even data points.

So, reading TV will be good practice for you, and prepare you for your future uni days. You can feel great gratitude for this experience.

1 minute ago, GammaGlobulin said:

You should make every effort, IMHO, to not take what you read on TV so....

PERSONALLY.

Try to chill a bit, as well.

You will live longer.

In addition; when you get to university, you will be exposed to many varying and conflicting perspectives, and even data points.

So, reading TV will be good practice for you, and prepare you for your future uni days. You can feel great gratitude for this experience.

That response is even more idiotic than the one I originally replied to.

You are a total fruit cake if you believe what you posted earlier regarding ANY country other than USA/Isreal being responsible for THEIR actions and being responsible for repatriations for the killing/suffering and damages that those two counties illegally carried out on another country.

It may help you to know that I am now just a little bit too old to return to university and also that most people WATCH TV! They do NOT read it!

11 hours ago, Rockyroad said:

America does not need oil. Europe can fix it.

Until Canada stops its oil exports.

And he can't steal it from others like Venezuela.

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

So instead of helping the USA keep the straits open, they're thinking about 'keeping the straits open themselves'.

They can't even pay their agreed share to finance NATO, so who's going to pay for the deployment and support for months on end.

Is that before or after they run out of oil, or anything else they aren't buying from USA & RU already.

Even using everything NATO has available, it wouldn't match what the USA has there now. Good luck with that one.

in case you didn't know, the strait was open to free navigation until your moron president decided to start a war, again it was OPEN and anybody/everybody could go in and out but he decided, on a "feeling" to go after Iran (please don't give us the Iran was building a nuclear bomb as they had nothing to proof it) now that he completely screw up and blocked the strait he wants to run away like a coward and tell the other nations, that had absolutely nothing to do with it, to go and open the strait, what type of intelligent person would say that, none whatsoever, only a moronic person without any brain and sense would do that, guess who???

4 hours ago, johng said:

Strait of Hormuz

is not 'international' waters!

you should get informed before making a stu.. comment

IMPO Europeans are intending to intervene in a interuptive move.

If neutral forces provide a shepherding role blocking aggression from either side will the US or Ian risk that spectrum of escalation ?

No doubt Trump will announce delusional claims of belated assistance in the defeat of Iran and if any level of rational advice can be comprehended concede "control" of the military situation on the basis that the US has no essential interest in the Straits of Hormuz while Iran will assess any genuine level of pacification.

The USA is rapidly descending into the status of fascist pariah state in companionship with Israel under the current GOP regime.

4 hours ago, johng said:

Strait of Hormuz

is not 'international' waters!

While perhaps technically correct International Law guarantees vessels from all nations the right of passage.

11 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

you should get informed before making a stu.. comment

Technically, it's not 'international water', it is however, an 'international waterway'

"international Waters" or "High Seas" are located 200 nautical miles away from any coastline. Google is your friend.

From AI (BBC sourced, apparently) ...

14 hours ago, Rockyroad said:

France and UK sat on their ass. Did not help. America has plenty of oil. Europe needs it. It is a pathetic desperate face saving attempt by 2 pathetic leaders of 2 pathetic nations. America saved their ass in ww2. Should have let Germany have them both.

14 hours ago, Rockyroad said:

France and UK sat on their ass. Did not help. America has plenty of oil. Europe needs it. It is a pathetic desperate face saving attempt by 2 pathetic leaders of 2 pathetic nations. America saved their ass in ww2. Should have let Germany have them both.

Europe did not get much oil from the Hormuz strait. Actually, the EU and the US used to import a similar amount of oil from the strait. 😀

Not sure how things will go but in terms of experience, I was just reading that France holds the record for most wars and UK comes second. So, if it comes to ability, France has more than the USA (the UK actually fought the revolutionary war against the USA simultaneously with the war against Napoleon in Europe).

I would think they are taking the lead to end the economic problem, not to end the Iranian war. Coming in a bit late maybe, but then the USA entered WWII two years after it started so a few weeks late into Hormuz isn't so bad.

So now that the heavy lifting is done, the EU show up to take credit, shocking.

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

That response is even more idiotic than the one I originally replied to.

You are a total fruit cake if you believe what you posted earlier regarding ANY country other than USA/Isreal being responsible for THEIR actions and being responsible for repatriations for the killing/suffering and damages that those two counties illegally carried out on another country.

It may help you to know that I am now just a little bit too old to return to university and also that most people WATCH TV! They do NOT read it!

One is never to old to attend university for an advanced degree.

10 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

One is never to old to attend university for an advanced degree.

Yet another moronic response that does not respond in any meaningful way to address any of the serious comments I made earlier regarding your previous two even more idiotic posts!

15 hours ago, bannork said:

No need to bring up WW2. You only came in when the Japs hit you at Pearl Harbour.

Trump started this war because Netanyahu persuaded him it would be a short, easy win like Venezuela. The idiot believed him and here we are, the world facing inflation and recession because Trump and his two 'diplomats', son in law and estate developer, can't make a deal out of a paper bag.

The world has had enough of Trump and his stupidity, not one nation has joined his mad war.

That's a lot of assumptions. You ignore the role of the Gulf Arabs who had been lobbying for years for a direct intervention with Iran. Jared's relationship is quite strong with the Saudis, and I would suggest that they have more influence than the Israelis, since it is Saudi and (UAE) money that has financed some investments.

Neither France nor the UK have the resources to patrol and to secure the waterway. This is a "for show"undertaking. India, Japan and other Asians are more likely to pay off the Iranians to ensure safe passage, than to actively participate, because that is their usual method.

If the Europeans show up, China may very well appear to ensure the safe passage of its oil and cargo. It is China which is most at risk from the disruption.

5 hours ago, johng said:

Strait of Hormuz

is not 'international' waters!

Correct. I was wrong. The waterway is both Iranian and Omani territorial waters, however, international law guarantees free passage.

2 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

That's a lot of assumptions. You ignore the role of the Gulf Arabs who had been lobbying for years for a direct intervention with Iran. Jared's relationship is quite strong with the Saudis, and I would suggest that they have more influence than the Israelis, since it is Saudi and (UAE) money that has financed some investments.

Jared's relationship with Netanyahu is very personal. He even stayed at Jared's father's house in New York when visiting, sleeping in Jared's bedroom, forcing the then lad to sleep in the basement.

Jared is known to be very pro Israel.

I read the Gulf States were anti Trump's war at first, but then after being attacked by Iran, they urged Trump to escalate to weaken Iran. Qatar and Oman, however, have favoured talks all along.

18 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Neither France nor the UK have the resources to patrol and to secure the waterway. This is a "for show"undertaking. India, Japan and other Asians are more likely to pay off the Iranians to ensure safe passage, than to actively participate, because that is their usual method.

If the Europeans show up, China may very well appear to ensure the safe passage of its oil and cargo. It is China which is most at risk from the disruption.

The Chinese, Japanese, South Koreans, ( the North can stay at home), Indians, Australians, Canadians, Africans should all turn up and have a party in the Strait with the Iranians before settling down to talks.

Trump and his side kick Hegsmith should go home.

6 hours ago, johng said:

Strait of Hormuz

is not 'international' waters!

Yes it is and I hope you already know this and are being sarcastic.

7 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

He thought he

"WAS A DOCTOR"

Get this...

"FOR THE RED CROSS"

You know...

"HELPING PEOPLE"

Would you like to buy some Aluminum siding to go over your brick house?

Hahahahaha "25th Amendment" COO COO COO COO

Welp, looks like stupid Americans finally got the Trumpcare Health plan he's been promising "in two weeks" since 2017

So long SUCKERS

🤣

"Yes, installing aluminum siding over a brick house can enhance insulation and improve the home's appearance. However, it requires proper preparation and professional installation to avoid moisture issues."

Chat GPT-5-mini seems to disagree with you as well as I. Growing up in a very cold climate I observed several brick homes having aluminum siding installed. Brick is a good conductor if the cold.