Canine Contraceptives

[Somtham]

We have a 5 month old female German Shepard and a 2+ year old male. I would guess the female will be coming into heat in the next couple of months and do not want her to get pregnant until she's over 2 years old. So what, if any, contraceptive methods are available for dogs?

thanks and rgds

[colino]

my brother in law takes his dog to the local vets and they give his dog an injection to stop her from

coming on heat not sure how much but vets bills are alot cheaper in LOS compared to the uk

but i am sure someone on here will be able to tell you more

Edited August 27, 2007 by colino

[Mossfinn]

To answer your question yes.

I know my step-dad has his female injected once a year.

but here is a link that also says it is possible.

Other than that can't help.

Click Here

Good Luck

Moss

[Nienke]

There are contraceptive injections. However, as these contraceptives are known for its increased chance on uterus infection and aren't really safe for the female I strongly advice against its use, especially when it concerns the first heat cycle.

If you don't want puppies, the two best options are keeping her strictly sperate during heat cycles or spay the dog. However, it is best for the health of the dog to wait with spaying until she is physical and mental matured. This means that during at least the first two heat cycles you need to keep male and female seperate.

Following Nignoy's advice you can give the female chlorofyl tab's during her heat period, which will reduce her attractiveness to the males.

Nienke

Edited August 27, 2007 by Nienke

[sbk]

I strongly recommend to those using those injections to stop immediately. I am guessing the vet is giving your dog is depo-provera. I had two dogs die of cancer from getting depo shots and saw many other dogs who received these shots die from cancer too.

Dr Somsuk in Koh Samui (who saw my dogs with cancer) told me that while not every dog who has cancer had these shots, every dog who had these shots that he's seen has gotten cancer.

It is a slow, agonizing painful death for your dog. Watching two of my dogs go this way was heart-breaking.

[elfe]

have to agree with sbk - these shots cause cancer!!! dr somsak here on samui does not give them anymore as far as i know as he has seen too many cases of cancer in female dogs who had received the shots previously. one of my gsds had breast tumors as her former owner had her had injected with contraceptive, thankfully removed and no further growing up to today - knock on wood!!

for spaying, i can recommend also an early spaying of females at the age of about 6 monts with no side effects, many of my females had been spayed that early and are now already over 5 yrs old and fit and healthy as can be, also not fat or any other problems.

it is also better as you can prevent uterus cancer with spaying, the risk rises if you wait for the first or following heats. also uterus infections are common in intact females and imaginary pregnancy (sorry don't know the right word for that) often occurs and is a real pain...

if you really want to breed your two dogs, just separate them. you will see the symptoms of heat early enough and the hot days are actually few. it could be hardship for your male, so be prepared. often the first heat in maxi breeds does not set in before 10 months of age. also don't forget to check both dogs with x-ray etc before breeding so you make sure your puppies will be healthy ...

[Mossfinn]

I have also just remembered that I had post regarding my Chihuahua getting pregnant early and I took it to a Vet for the termination, there were a lot of informed posts suggesting the risks of cancer, I can't seem to find it right now, but the above posters do have it covered.

It is very hard to keep them apart when the female comes on heat, it is heart breaking and soul destroying all wrapped up in one.

The male will do everything in it's power to get to female no matter the barrier.

It even jumped up and tried opening the door handle, a not inconsiderable leap, in relative terms and the howling is unbelievable, if at all possible, get one or the other to stay with friends or family and not put him through this hel_l.

You will notice the female coming on heat in plenty of time, she will spot red blood patches indiscriminately around the room and the genitalia will swell considerably.

And don't worry if he loses his appetite, he will go almost on hunger strike during this time, this worried me greatly at the time also.

On reflection, please disregard my earlier post to the link of injection contraceptive, I wish to have no part in that information.

Moss

[Jet Gorgon]

Yep, with SBK and Elfe on this point. The gov't vet came round when I was first on Samui with my first dog there. I was worried about pups so he gave her an injection and said no puppies for 12 years. She was fine and then a few years later adopted by friends. About five years after the shot, she got pregnant, went into loabour and had a horrid infection, also cancer related, that killed her. Also a horrible, painful death. Way back then, before vets, we always injected the female strays or pets with this birth control serum, which is actually prescribed for women. We had no idea of the dangers; all we thought about was keeping the females relatively strong by not having puppies every six months and keeping the stray count down. Spay, neuter or separate are the only way to go, unless you want puppies. If you keep the bitch inside during her heat, prepare to have every male dog in your neighbourhood at your doorstep.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Jet Gorgon

[Nienke]

for spaying, i can recommend also an early spaying of females at the age of about 6 monts with no side effects, many of my females had been spayed that early and are now already over 5 yrs old and fit and healthy as can be, also not fat or any other problems.

it is also better as you can prevent uterus cancer with spaying, the risk rises if you wait for the first or following heats. also uterus infections are common in intact females and imaginary pregnancy (sorry don't know the right word for that) often occurs and is a real pain...

More and more shocking reports are coming out that show why NOT to spay at early age.

Early spaying may decrease the risk on certain kinds of cancer, it increases the risk on other pretty aggressive kinds of cancer. Females with a 'dominant' character tend to become more 'dominant' (often with aggression) when spayed or neutered before mental maturity. Taking away the reproductive organs before physical maturity also interferes with the bone growth.

Unfortunately, I'm not at home, otherwise I would have send the links of two of these reports.

It is very hard to keep them apart when the female comes on heat, it is heart breaking and soul destroying all wrapped up in one.

The male will do everything in it's power to get to female no matter the barrier.

It even jumped up and tried opening the door handle, a not inconsiderable leap, in relative terms and the howling is unbelievable, if at all possible, get one or the other to stay with friends or family and not put him through this hel_l.

I've had many dogs, males and females, at the same time. None of them were spayed or neutered, but were kept strictly seperate during heat cycles, which was usually not at the same time but followed up each other.

And for sure, these males fell heavenly in luv each time a female became in heat, with lots of beeping at the female and also growling at each other. At the peak of the cycle, they usually would skip a meal or two.

However, IMO this is prefectly natural behavior and doesn't do any harm to the dog, emotionally and physically. The biggest emotions are in the human NOT in the dog.

Important is, though, to have a strict hierarchical order with the humans being the number ones and the dog as a result obeying the owner.

But then , as mentioned before, you can try out Nignoy's suggestion by giving the female chlorofyl tab's just before and during heat, so that she will be less attractive to the males. The chlorofyl covers the smell or something.

Nienke

[elfe]

sorry nienke to disagree. there is NO scientific proof yet that any (minor than cancer!) bone problems or changing in behaviour to aggressiveness in dogs are the result of early spaying. i know in the states they spay already at one month age and even younger, this might be bad for development. but any other changing is just assumption and not proven.

and that males suffer from females in heat they cannot get to and do their 'business' is obvious and not natural as in nature they usually can get to the desired female and do their job. my males are all neutered, many at early age and they are fine and healthy and can all live here together without fighting and even when females are in heat. they still try and execute the sexual 'act'. for me spaying is a must and a bliss!

[Nienke]

sorry nienke to disagree. there is NO scientific proof yet that any (minor than cancer!) bone problems or changing in behaviour to aggressiveness in dogs are the result of early spaying. i know in the states they spay already at one month age and even younger, this might be bad for development. but any other changing is just assumption and not proven.

I've send these links before to this forum. Will send them again once back home. In the behavioral world it is well known that a female with a 'dominant'character, that is spayed before mental maturity, is more prone to an increase in 'dominant'behavior, often resulting in aggression.

Spaying at one month of age is absolutely outrageous. That they do so does not mean its good for the health and well-being of the animal.

and that males suffer from females in heat they cannot get to and do their 'business' is obvious and not natural as in nature they usually can get to the desired female and do their job. my males are all neutered, many at early age and they are fine and healthy and can all live here together without fighting and even when females are in heat. they still try and execute the sexual 'act'. for me spaying is a must and a bliss!

Dogs are pack animals with a strict hierarchy. It's the right of the highest ranks to reproduce. Lower ranks may never reproduce in their entire lives. This does not make them frustrated. The frustration is in the human mind's not the dog's minds.

That spaying is a must and a bliss for you is your good right. I won't say anything about that. I only commented on the dangers of spaying at early age. And there are especially with stray and street dogs circumstances where one chooses for spaying and neutering as soon as possible, whether one likes it or not.

Nienke

[Mossfinn]

It is very hard to keep them apart when the female comes on heat, it is heart breaking and soul destroying all wrapped up in one.

The male will do everything in it's power to get to female no matter the barrier.

It even jumped up and tried opening the door handle, a not inconsiderable leap, in relative terms and the howling is unbelievable, if at all possible, get one or the other to stay with friends or family and not put him through this hel_l.

However, IMO this is prefectly natural behavior and doesn't do any harm to the dog, emotionally and physically. The biggest emotions are in the human NOT in the dog.

Lower ranks may never reproduce in their entire lives. This does not make them frustrated. The frustration is in the human mind's not the dog's minds.

I am sorry if I have given the wrong impression here, I was only expressing my opinion at the heart breaking sight of a dog in complete meltdown.

It is my first dog as a pet and a complete newbie to it, it was the vet who advised to keep them in separate premises until the crisis was over.

However, I do not doubt that the emotional problems at this time rest with the human, but I also cannot believe the Dog comes through it unscathed, but I am really only looking at it on a personal point of view.

Moss

[sbk]

Neinke, do you have scientific proof to refute this article?

J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1991 Apr 1;198(7):1193-203. Related Articles, Links

Gonadectomy in immature dogs: effects on skeletal, physical, and behavioral development.

Salmeri KR, Bloomberg MS, Scruggs SL, Shille V.

Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Florida, Gainesville 32610-0126.

In a 15-month study, the effects of prepubertal gonadectomy on skeletal growth, weight gain, food intake, body fat, secondary sex characteristics, and behavioral development were investigated in 32 mixed-breed dogs. Male and female pups from 5 litters were randomly allotted to 3 groups: group I, neuter at 7 weeks (n = 14); group II, neuter at 7 months (n = 8); and group III, sexually intact dogs (n = 10). Growth plate closure was delayed (group I vs group III; P less than 0.000001; group II vs group III, P less than 0.000001) in all neutered dogs, as compared with sexually intact dogs. Growth plate closure was delayed longer (group I vs group II, P less than 0.000045) in dogs neutered at 7 weeks old, compared with dogs neutered at 7 months old. The rate of growth was unaffected by gonadectomy, but the extended growth period resulted in greater final radial/ulnar length in all male dogs and bitches neutered at 7 weeks. Gonadectomy did not influence food intake, weight gain, or back-fat depth. Penile development was immature in the adult group-I males (mean +/- SEM diameter of pars glandis = 11.1 +/- 1.0 mm), compared with adult group-II (16.3 +/- 0.5 mm) and group-III (21.0 +/- 2.2 mm) males. Subjectively, the prepuce and os penis of the group-I males were immature, compared with those of group-II and group-III males. Vulvar development in group-I and group-II bitches was less mature than vulvar development in the sexually intact bitches. Of 7 behavioral characteristics assessed, only general activity and excitability rated differently among treatment groups. All neutered dogs were judged to be more active (group I, P less than 0.004) than sexually intact dogs. Group-I males were judged to be more excitable (P less than 0.02) than group-III males. It was concluded that with respect to skeletal, physical, and behavioral development, the effect of neutering pups at 7 weeks old was similar to that of neutering pups at 7 months old.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?c...p;dopt=Citation

Frankly, given the chance they might have some bone lengthening compared to the apparently guaranteed death by cancer the contraceptive shot gives, I know which one I would choose. Esp after already losing 2 dogs to cancer because of these shots.

[elfe]

thanks for this link sbk. a while ago i read and searched as much as i could about effects of spaying or early spaying and could not find any scientific proof for any downsides. what i found was actually only advantages, in behaviour (esp with the males) as well as in medical terms.

from my experience, i got 22 males here, all neutered or very soon to be neutered as some are only 5 months still. females i got 37 of which 11 are spayed, most of them at early age about 6 months, some later (one having gland tumor, another one suspected to be shortly pregnant etc). 3 of my females are spayed because they had reoccurring demodex mange which also got worse at first heat or shortly before that due to hormonal imbalances. since they have beautiful skin and fur with no issues (already one year +)

i cannot observe any difference in behaviour among spayed or not spayed females which would have changed after spaying or so. it depends on their personal temperament how they behave. the ony difference is when one of the unspayed females gets in heat she would be more aggressive and nasty with the other dogs and causing some trouble here, also here, some do and some don't! but most of them show swelling of milk glands which sometimes won't reduce easily, are less obedient and also i can see some have pain from their period, as lying quiet around more than usual. in one of my females i saw a kind of depressed change in her ways after being on heat and not getting pregnant (my personal impression) which took a few weeks to get back to normal.

i want to spay all my females gradually as money will allow, i'm very much convinced about the advantages.

as for being unnatural, it is a true point, but then is not all our dog keeping mostly 'unnatural' today. dogs are kept single inspite being a pack animal. they accept humans as their pack as being forced to that but honestly a human can never replace a dog companion or pack for a dog. and other things, like we feed them regularly, the dog does not need to look for food itself anymore, then the kind of food... not the least all that breeding and breeding methods etc.

for that that minor pack members will never reproduce, i'm not so sure, there is always a time where the pack leader and other high ranks sleep and then the moment of the minor one has come!! could observe this here as well at least in the wild they have the chance to try or fight for it or go looking to another pack somewhere else where they might have more success... you can watch this with the soi dogs in heat and the bunch of males after them here very well

Edited August 29, 2007 by elfe

[Boksida]

I have seen herdsmen of sheep and goats in several countries using a technique that may work with dogs. They simply tie a small apron on the ram, which they seem to accept, but it prevents penetration when the male is up to no good.

You might be able to get more information on this at this site.

[Somtham]

Thank you all for the replies. Very helpful to find out about the negatives of giving shots. We would really like to breed the two dogs after the female is about 2 years old so it looks like separation will be the best way to go. My wife suggested having them take turns on alternating days staying in the workshop. Is there such a thing as a female dog chastity belt as an extra precaution?

Would it be an option to just let her get pregnant and then abort?

rgds

[elfe]

Would it be an option to just let her get pregnant and then abort?

what???!!

thai vets won't abort as far as i know, only castrate the dog. other ways would endanger your dogs health or make further pregnancies risky or impossible as damage can be done with abortion.

keeping them apart causes some effort and work, as all responsible dog caring does...

[Nienke]

Neinke, do you have scientific proof to refute this article?

please, refer to the article on the following link:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=139945

J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1991 Apr 1;198(7):1193-203. Related Articles, Links

Gonadectomy in immature dogs: effects on skeletal, physical, and behavioral development.

Salmeri KR, Bloomberg MS, Scruggs SL, Shille V.

Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Florida, Gainesville 32610-0126.

In a 15-month study, the effects of prepubertal gonadectomy on skeletal growth, weight gain, food intake, body fat, secondary sex characteristics, and behavioral development were investigated in 32 mixed-breed dogs. Male and female pups from 5 litters were randomly allotted to 3 groups: group I, neuter at 7 weeks (n = 14); group II, neuter at 7 months (n = 8); and group III, sexually intact dogs (n = 10). Growth plate closure was delayed (group I vs group III; P less than 0.000001; group II vs group III, P less than 0.000001) in all neutered dogs, as compared with sexually intact dogs. Growth plate closure was delayed longer (group I vs group II, P less than 0.000045) in dogs neutered at 7 weeks old, compared with dogs neutered at 7 months old. The rate of growth was unaffected by gonadectomy, but the extended growth period resulted in greater final radial/ulnar length in all male dogs and bitches neutered at 7 weeks. Gonadectomy did not influence food intake, weight gain, or back-fat depth. Penile development was immature in the adult group-I males (mean +/- SEM diameter of pars glandis = 11.1 +/- 1.0 mm), compared with adult group-II (16.3 +/- 0.5 mm) and group-III (21.0 +/- 2.2 mm) males. Subjectively, the prepuce and os penis of the group-I males were immature, compared with those of group-II and group-III males. Vulvar development in group-I and group-II bitches was less mature than vulvar development in the sexually intact bitches. Of 7 behavioral characteristics assessed, only general activity and excitability rated differently among treatment groups. All neutered dogs were judged to be more active (group I, P less than 0.004) than sexually intact dogs. Group-I males were judged to be more excitable (P less than 0.02) than group-III males. It was concluded that with respect to skeletal, physical, and behavioral development, the effect of neutering pups at 7 weeks old was similar to that of neutering pups at 7 months old.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?c...p;dopt=Citation

Frankly, given the chance they might have some bone lengthening compared to the apparently guaranteed death by cancer the contraceptive shot gives, I know which one I would choose. Esp after already losing 2 dogs to cancer because of these shots.

A. a 15 months' study isn't exactly long term

B. an extended bone growth period and/or a an increased bone growth rate can cause all sorts of health problems. Among others, it can caused iny tiny little cracks/fractures in the bone and joints which later on can result in osteosarcoma. And where I read this, I really don't remember. It was a scientifical report though.

C. I wouldn't choose for both. I would not give the shots and I would not spay or neuter MY OWN dogs, especially not at an early age. I repeat: stray and street dogs are a whole other story.

[Nienke]

Would it be an option to just let her get pregnant and then abort?

IMO, NO that's NOT an option. It would be cruel to the dog, bad for her health, and I think it'll be hard to find a veterinarian who is willing to abort.

Preventing the female from becoming pregnant by keeping her strictly separate from the males during the heat cycle is the only option, IMO. And again, you could try Nignoy's advice on giving chlorofyl before and during the heat cycle.

Nienke

[sbk]

Agreed Neinke, the choices responsible dog owners make about their dogs are their own, but stray and street dogs absolutely need to be sterilized when the opportunity arises. There is no guarantee the dog will live to a ripe old age like a pet would, but an absolute guarantee that they will reproduce at least once before their lives end.

Since the owner wishes to breed later, then seperation is the only option but I don't know that alternating locations every other day would work, wouldn't the scent of the female still be around the next day?

[Somtham]

...

Preventing the female from becoming pregnant by keeping her strictly separate from the males during the heat cycle is the only option, IMO. And again, you could try Nignoy's advice on giving chlorofyl before and during the heat cycle.

Nienke

Where do you buy these chlorofyl tablets and what is the dose? I think we should be able to keep the dogs separated during the heat and sounds like the best thing to do. Can anybody recommend a good web site to read on recognizing when the female is actually fertile?

Didn't dig through the Free Mason website that Boksida posted to find out aout the "apron" but somebody else mentioned on another thread about having the female wear pampers! Does that really help?

thanks

[Nienke]

...

Preventing the female from becoming pregnant by keeping her strictly separate from the males during the heat cycle is the only option, IMO. And again, you could try Nignoy's advice on giving chlorofyl before and during the heat cycle.

Nienke

Where do you buy these chlorofyl tablets and what is the dose? I think we should be able to keep the dogs separated during the heat and sounds like the best thing to do. Can anybody recommend a good web site to read on recognizing when the female is actually fertile?

Didn't dig through the Free Mason website that Boksida posted to find out aout the "apron" but somebody else mentioned on another thread about having the female wear pampers! Does that really help?

thanks

I know that in Chiang Mai you can buy chlorofyl in the health shops such as Aden and at the Ayurvedic Health Clinic. If you don´t get an proper answer here, you might ask this question on the Health forum as well.

As for the dose I´m not sure. For a large breed dog i would take a children´s dose. You can PM Nignoy for this as he has quite some experience with chlorofyl and females in heat ... as he used to be a zoo curator .

In petshops you can buy special napkins and little trouser thingies for during heat periods. They work so far that it´ll be more difficult for the male to penetrate, although you have very persistent ones that stil can manage if you don´t watch out. Further, the napkins will catch the blood giving less a mess in your house. On the other hand, it´s in front of the vagina, so when she needs to pee you need to take it of.

What has Free Mason to do with female pampers

Nienke

[Somtham]

What has Free Mason to do with female pampers

Nienke

Thanks for all the info Neinke. In post #15 Bokida posted a link that was an Australian Free Mason home page. Why it was posted, I have no idea.

rgds

[girlx]

I strongly recommend to those using those injections to stop immediately.

agree. my friend's dog was injected, unfortunately they didn't know she was already pregnant. all her puppies died inside of her, and then she shortly after died a long and agonizing death as well.

[Gary A]

I would NEVER give a female dog an injection for birth control. A fried of mine made that mistake and his dog got so fat it actually resembled a pig. It then got sick so he took her to a vet at a bigger clinic. The first thing that vet asked him is if she ever had a contraceptive shot. She had a complete hysterectomy and lived through it. She still resembles a pig but other than being fat she appears to be in decent health.