Heavily edited. URL in title.

[Opinion. Okay, all you Muskrat defenders—are you on the payroll? Think he’s going to kick you a nickel? Ha!]

Is it bad that Elon Musk has a trillion dollars?

Ingrid Robeyns

The Guardian: 17 Jun 2024

It was bound to happen eventually: Elon Musk has become the planet’s first trillionaire. Until recently, economists who spoke about “trillions” were describing the GDP of the world’s largest economies.

But now we have entered a new phase of the oligarchic era. Previously, when we described the wealth of the world’s richest billionaires, it was understood as a few hundred billions. Three years ago, the value of Musk’s total assets was estimated to be about $250bn. The pace at which it has increased is mind-boggling – and so is what it represents.

We need to know two things about trillionaires: what a trillion dollars exactly stands for, and why this level of wealth concentration is dangerous.

What wage would Musk have to be on to amass a trillion dollars? The answer is that, even if he worked 70 hours a week from age 20 to 75 and took no holidays, his pay rate would need to be about $5m an hour. By way of comparison, the median hourly wage in the US is just under $25.

A second argument against billionaires and trillionaires is wastefulness. There is no point in an individual having so much money, and it is scandalous, given that many people die prematurely or live stunted lives with very few opportunities, simply because the richest take the lion’s share of the wealth that we as societies produce together.

1 - He doesn't have a trillion dollars

2 - WTF ?

Trillionares could be stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled, and their skin could even be used to make fine gloves and boots.

Without Musk, billionaires & millionaires, many people wouldn't be employed, salaries injected into the economies, supplying other businesses & employees with income, let alone the amount of taxes they generate.

Musk companies alone, quotes from G AI ...

... "Elon Musk’s primary companies employ approximately 149,000 to 150,000 people globally." ...

... "Jeff Bezos-owned and founded companies employ over 1.5 million people globally." ...

They all need to eat, housing, transport, medical service, and they also pay taxes.

Sooner or later you run out of other people's money. California is a prime example, from G AI ...

... "Data based on IRS migration metrics confirms that California has experienced a net loss of approximately 103,000 millionaire households since 2018, while other states like Florida and Texas have gained hundreds of thousands of affluent residents." ...

California also loss 6 billionaires ...

... Larry Page

... Sergey Brin

... Mark Zuckerberg

... Peter Thiel

... Travis Kalanick

... Don Hankey

Edited June 18Jun 18 by KhunLA

2 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Heavily edited. URL in title.

[Opinion. Okay, all you Muskrat defenders—are you on the payroll? Think he’s going to kick you a nickel? Ha!]

Is it bad that Elon Musk has a trillion dollars?

Ingrid Robeyns

The Guardian: 17 Jun 2024

It was bound to happen eventually: Elon Musk has become the planet’s first trillionaire. Until recently, economists who spoke about “trillions” were describing the GDP of the world’s largest economies.

But now we have entered a new phase of the oligarchic era. Previously, when we described the wealth of the world’s richest billionaires, it was understood as a few hundred billions. Three years ago, the value of Musk’s total assets was estimated to be about $250bn. The pace at which it has increased is mind-boggling – and so is what it represents.

We need to know two things about trillionaires: what a trillion dollars exactly stands for, and why this level of wealth concentration is dangerous.

What wage would Musk have to be on to amass a trillion dollars? The answer is that, even if he worked 70 hours a week from age 20 to 75 and took no holidays, his pay rate would need to be about $5m an hour. By way of comparison, the median hourly wage in the US is just under $25.

A second argument against billionaires and trillionaires is wastefulness. There is no point in an individual having so much money, and it is scandalous, given that many people die prematurely or live stunted lives with very few opportunities, simply because the richest take the lion’s share of the wealth that we as societies produce together.

This is such low level childish thinking.

2 hours ago, Real Name Hidden said:

Trillionares could be stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled, and their skin could even be used to make fine gloves and boots.

You’re pathetic

Composting might be the best option.

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Without Musk, billionaires & millionaires, many people wouldn't be employed, salaries injected into the economies, supplying other businesses & employees with income, let alone the amount of taxes they generate.

Musk companies alone, quotes from G AI ...

... "Elon Musk’s primary companies employ approximately 149,000 to 150,000 people globally." ...

... "Jeff Bezos-owned and founded companies employ over 1.5 million people globally." ...

They all need to eat, housing, transport, medical service, and they also pay taxes.

Sooner or later you run out of other people's money. California is a prime example, from G AI ...

... "Data based on IRS migration metrics confirms that California has experienced a net loss of approximately 103,000 millionaire households since 2018, while other states like Florida and Texas have gained hundreds of thousands of affluent residents." ...

California also loss 6 billionaires ...

... Larry Page

... Sergey Brin

... Mark Zuckerberg

... Peter Thiel

... Travis Kalanick

... Don Hankey

The ones that don't give back. Sure, 170k jobs. That's not jobs for everybody, is it? They need to eat, too.

26 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Composting might be the best option.

You'e right. I'm not ready to be a humanitarian. The idea of ahimsa leather has a lot of appeal, though.

2 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

The ones that don't give back. Sure, 170k jobs. That's not jobs for everybody, is it? They need to eat, too.

How many jobs would he need to create to satisfy you?

52 minutes ago, TedG said:

This is such low level childish thinking.

You are on the payroll!

2 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

You are on the payroll!

That's a childish response. I'm not on anyone's payroll. I worked in tech for the past 25 years and never worked for a poor person.

Better let the poor eat the poor.

A race to the (Tax) bottom of the barrel. Go where you pay the least of taxes. The end of the race: The richest people of this world will pay no taxes at all.

As a middle class guy, I will be happy to pay higher taxes to fill the gap.

13 minutes ago, swissie said:

A race to the (Tax) bottom of the barrel. Go where you pay the least of taxes. The end of the race: The richest people of this world will pay no taxes at all.

As a middle class guy, I will be happy to pay higher taxes to fill the gap.

The rich do pay taxes.

https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxes

Good for him. He's a weird guy, and his skill is more in finding smart engineers than actually inventing anything himself, but it isn't as if he was born with a silver spoon like the Grifter-in-Chief.

The wealth becomes meaningless after a while. He couldn't realize it in cash, as most is in shares, which would tumble if he sold. As of Monday this week, his NW was equal to 3% of total world GDP.

I cannot begin to wrap myself around the supposed value of SpaceX, as it is trading at 200 times revenues. The growth it would have to achieve to even be just overvalued is kind of impossible, but let the market do what it pleases.

Edited June 18Jun 18 by Wingate

34 minutes ago, Mr Awesome said:

The rich do pay taxes.

https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxes

Top 1% "income" is kept low. Their wealth is generated outside of the "income tax" universe. If they would have to pay 38.4% of their total "Wealth Increase" anually, they would have stopped investing in the US a long time ago.

I'm no Elon, but 97% of my wealth is tied up (at risk) in a private company. My pro-rata shareholding of the company I've sweated blood for pays for 30 salaries/wages, and has done for 35 years. The tax I pay is equivalent to the pension paid to seven pensioners. Over the years I've had to raise personal debt to make payroll many times and employees always drove better cars and had better holidays than me.

If you eat all the "on paper" wealthy individuals, enjoy your bowl of gruel and your miserable dystopian existence.

Sensationalist journalism.He doesnt have a trillion dollars. In fact by his own admission he has less than 1% of that. The 'trillionaire status' consists of the paper value of his shares in specific companies. If he tried to sell those shares the stock would plummet wiping hundreds of billions off the share price. so he wouldnt have a trillion dollars. And even if he did find someone that could buy them all and keep investor confidence in their value he would be hit with a capital gains tax bill the size of the world has never seen. So he doesnt really have a trillion 'dollars'. In fact he probably has access to less liquid assets than someone like Tiger Woods.

To hit a trillion he has to send over

one million people to Mars , probably including

himself !

Will they be on Mars tax rates ?

socialists who hate achievement are an existential threat to humanity

We're worse off now than during the gilded age. Income disparity is much greater, the distance between the haves and the have nots is at a proportion never seen before in the written history of the planet. The difference is, during the gilded age, the haves contributed much more than this current breed of oligarchs whose sole purpose is to amass wealth at the cost of global society. Some examples:

1. Large-Scale Philanthropy

Modern philanthropy was largely invented during this era. Tycoons donated massive portions of their wealth to public causes:

• Libraries: Andrew Carnegie financed the construction of over 2,500 public libraries globally, helping democratize access to education.

• Education and Health: John D. Rockefeller funded the creation of the University of Chicago and the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research.

2. Infrastructure and Industrial Growth

These businessmen laid the groundwork for America's modern economy by scaling up core industries: [1]

• Railroads: Tycoons like Cornelius Vanderbilt connected distant cities, allowing for a unified national market and efficient, cross-country travel.

• Steel: Andrew Carnegie and J.P. Morgan revolutionized steel production, providing the physical materials necessary for the nation's growing cities, railroads, and bridges.

3. Cultural and Civic Institutions

The richest families funded premier arts, educational, and cultural institutions that remain foundational today: [1]

• The Arts: Financiers funded major museums and cultural centers, such as New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art.

• Universities: Wealthy donors heavily endowed many of the country's elite private universities (e.g., Stanford University, Vanderbilt University).

7 hours ago, FlorC said:

Better let the poor eat the poor.

That’s the plan in action.

7 hours ago, swissie said:

A race to the (Tax) bottom of the barrel. Go where you pay the least of taxes. The end of the race: The richest people of this world will pay no taxes at all.

As a middle class guy, I will be happy to pay higher taxes to fill the gap.

No need to tax the individual, tax the pipeline that feeds money to the Trillionaire/Billionaires.

Individuals move around, the source of their obscene wealth goes not.

5 hours ago, Yagoda said:

socialists who hate achievement are an existential threat to humanity

The billionaires are glad you have their back.

Or at least they are pleased that their investment in controlling the news media is paying the dividends they hoped for.

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No need to tax the individual, tax the pipeline that feeds money to the Trillionaire/Billionaires.

Individuals move around, the source of their obscene wealth goes not.

What is the pipeline?

30 minutes ago, TedG said:

What is the pipeline?

It’s the bit that’s not a working person’s salary deductions and the same bit that neoliberalism reduced or hid from taxes.

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s the bit that’s not a working person’s salary deductions and the same bit that neoliberalism reduced or hid from taxes.

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s the bit that’s not a working person’s salary deductions and the same bit that neoliberalism reduced or hid from taxes.

You do know that a billionaire is a measure of wealth, not income?

1 hour ago, HappyExpat57 said:

We're worse off now than during the gilded age. Income disparity is much greater, the distance between the haves and the have nots is at a proportion never seen before in the written history of the planet. The difference is, during the gilded age, the haves contributed much more than this current breed of oligarchs whose sole purpose is to amass wealth at the cost of global society. Some examples:

1. Large-Scale Philanthropy

Modern philanthropy was largely invented during this era. Tycoons donated massive portions of their wealth to public causes:

• Libraries: Andrew Carnegie financed the construction of over 2,500 public libraries globally, helping democratize access to education.

• Education and Health: John D. Rockefeller funded the creation of the University of Chicago and the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research.

2. Infrastructure and Industrial Growth

These businessmen laid the groundwork for America's modern economy by scaling up core industries: [1]

• Railroads: Tycoons like Cornelius Vanderbilt connected distant cities, allowing for a unified national market and efficient, cross-country travel.

• Steel: Andrew Carnegie and J.P. Morgan revolutionized steel production, providing the physical materials necessary for the nation's growing cities, railroads, and bridges.

3. Cultural and Civic Institutions

The richest families funded premier arts, educational, and cultural institutions that remain foundational today: [1]

• The Arts: Financiers funded major museums and cultural centers, such as New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art.

• Universities: Wealthy donors heavily endowed many of the country's elite private universities (e.g., Stanford University, Vanderbilt University).

You mention the age of Robber Barons. I'd like to see a list of the wealthiest and what they've really given back, not as a tax write-off.

34 minutes ago, TedG said:

You do know that a billionaire is a measure of wealth, not income?

Yes I do.

You do know money is a thing that flows?