Am I Being Culturally Insensitive?

[garro]

My mother-in-law is trying to convince my wife that our baby's name, which I choose, is unlucky and that is why he cries so much. She wants us to change it.

I agreed that it was a good idea to have his Thai name on the birth cert, as we live in LOS and have no plans to move, but that we would use his English nickname. Our baby is now over three weeks old and I like his name and so do my family.

I have said no way.

Am I being culturally insensive and unfair.

I have gone along with other Thai customs and traditions and the only other time I put my foot down was when they wanted to remove my dogs pups as they thought this was unlucky for the baby.

[onzestan]

My mother-in-law is trying to convince my wife that our baby's name, which I choose, is unlucky and that is why he cries so much. She wants us to change it.

I agreed that it was a good idea to have his Thai name on the birth cert, as we live in LOS and have no plans to move, but that we would use his English nickname. Our baby is now over three weeks old and I like his name and so do my family.

I have said no way.

Am I being culturally insensive and unfair.

I have gone along with other Thai customs and traditions and the only other time I put my foot down was when they wanted to remove my dogs pups as they thought this was unlucky for the baby.

A father has rights too, and the family should be made aware that you intend to preserve those rights.

Goodluck

onzestan

[Stephen Cleary]

Absolutely not!

Culturally speaking, a Thai grandma has no right to decide anything about her grandchild's name.

If fact, if the father was Thai in this instance - he wouldn't be starting this thread, he would be kickin' his mother-in-law out the door.

Edited August 29, 2007 by Stephen Cleary

[Brucenkhamen]

Congratulations Garro! ...mine was born a month ago.

We chose her farang name and in the end let her family choose the Thai name from a shortlist we gave them, mainly because we couldn't decide ourselves.

If they ever decide the name is unlucky and should be changed I know exactly what my reaction will be, luckily my wife agrees.

She has friends and relatives who have changed their names by deed poll because a fortune teller said it was unlucky, daft I'd say!

I think this is something you should stand your ground on if you feel you have compromised on other things in the past. As a Buddhist practitioner I don't think you should be seen to be supporting this kind of superstition.

[GuestHouse]

If MiL wants to dictate the name you give YOUR child, then I'd start making plans to put as much distance as possible between child and grandmother.

Believe me, the issue over the name is the fist of what will become very many more 'MiL is in tears'.

[Bobegraves]

Find out why he's crying so much and educate her, she has to understand that there's a perfectly good reason for everything and it's nothing to do with mumbo jumbo!

Stick to your guns and DON"T back down.

[cdnvic]

You have a culture too, which is just as important. I think you have to be gentle to your MIL who is obviously quite old fashioned in her beliefs, but stand firm on yours.

[technocracy]

Jeez it sounds likes you've got a right old handful in the MiL!

Me - I would politely and firmly tell her that it's not her baby and the name of the baby has nothing to do with her. As for being unlucky I am sure they make up this kind of crap just to try scare the falang () into doing what they want.

He's a baby - he will cry, some cry more than others that is the way of life!

Other than that I'd follow Guesthouse advice - can't you go and visit your family for a few months and let all this pass over and get you and your wife some breathing space?

Our first is due next Feb and it has already been decided between me and the wife that I will choose the western name and my wife will then do the traditional thing with Monks to come up with a Lao nickname.

Edited August 29, 2007 by technocracy

[mellow1]

If the baby cries too much,there may be a reason.Take him to a good doctor.The rest of the family can be told the shows over now, and its time for them to go home.

I'm not sure,but wasn't you whose mother in law had a fire going under your wife's bed, and the niece was smashing everything in the house?Now they want to change your child's name.If so whats wrong with you?

[UnknownPoster]

O man, raising this kid is going to be a chore.

Next, grandma will be scaring the hel_l out of him...ghosts.... spirits....potions... incense... chanting..curses... aaaagghhh!

[garro]

My mother-in-law moved back to her own house on sunday but I can't stop her visiting, not that I'd want to. We have been to local doctors twice and they say this is normal. I have also worked with newborns as I trained as a nurse and know that they can sometimes cry a lot. I bought a pacifier/dummy yesterday but he hasn't really taking to it.

He does sleep for periods during the day but is awake most of the night. I think my wife is beginning to despair as she is so tired and is now willing to try anything. I draw the line at name changing.

[roguegirl]

O man, raising this kid is going to be a chore.

Next, grandma will be scaring the hel_l out of him...ghosts.... spirits....potions... incense... chanting..curses... aaaagghhh!

Yes, that's right.

I find it rather irritating to always have to succumb to superstitions. It's like there's no peace in life... always have to be scared of this and that... geez!!

A respect for another culture...? Well... one way or another you'll just have to politely explain and carry on with what you believe in. If the child is seems to suffer from colic, then take it to a pediatrician. Simple as that.

[monica]

My mother-in-law moved back to her own house on sunday but I can't stop her visiting, not that I'd want to. We have been to local doctors twice and they say this is normal. I have also worked with newborns as I trained as a nurse and know that they can sometimes cry a lot. I bought a pacifier/dummy yesterday but he hasn't really taking to it.

He does sleep for periods during the day but is awake most of the night. I think my wife is beginning to despair as she is so tired and is now willing to try anything. I draw the line at name changing.

Sounds like a normal baby. We watched "The Happiest Baby on the Block" - some dr. explains how to make babies feel like they are still in the womb. Try holding him on his side (head resting on your hand and body along your arm). This dr. would visit people's houses whoses babies had been crying for days and the baby would stop when he would show them to hold the baby on its side! Miracle hands...it worked for us. Also, babies should be wrapped up early on as well, giving them familiar comfortable feeling - but you probably are already doing that. Could just be colic as well - there are homeopathic remedies for babies by Hyland's - the teething ones are working great for our daughter - there are specific colic ones as well. Maybe somebody could send you some? As for the whole cultural thing - I would firmly explain that while you respect her beliefs, that this is not a case of an unlucky name but rather of a baby being a baby.

[siamamerican]

My mother-in-law moved back to her own house on sunday but I can't stop her visiting, not that I'd want to. We have been to local doctors twice and they say this is normal. I have also worked with newborns as I trained as a nurse and know that they can sometimes cry a lot. I bought a pacifier/dummy yesterday but he hasn't really taking to it.

He does sleep for periods during the day but is awake most of the night. I think my wife is beginning to despair as she is so tired and is now willing to try anything. I draw the line at name changing.

Congrats on the baby. I feel for you Dads. Couldn't handle the all night crying.

Does your wife like the nickname? Does the name have any negative thai connotations or translations?

[samran]

Firstly, congrats!

our baby cried alot and still cries alot. And she is 16 months old now!

I suggest it is less the name and more other factors.

Is bubs getting enough to eat? In the first couple of weeks, the whole breast feeding thing may not be enough cause mum doesn't produce enough milk. While we 100% breast fed (and still do) for other friends, the mum wasn't producing enough, so they had to add some formula. Helped calmed bubs down a bit. Burping after a feed also helps!

What calmed my baby most at that age was background noise. Given the womb is such a noisy place, coming into the world, a quite room freaked her out. So we regularly took her out to the balcony where the background noise of BKK and the hum of the air-conditioning unit calmed her down.

ed: Opps, just noticed you were in Pitsanoulok.

[WaiWai]

What's your Mother-in-Law's name ? Inform her that it was revealed to you in a dream that having a person or persons of that name in the vicinity of your baby would make him cry.

Or ... you could offer her the pacifier ?

All the best; there was some good advice above.

Edited August 29, 2007 by WaiWai

[Doza]

You have a culture too, which is just as important

###### right!

Just because you are living in Thailand, no reason to give up all your and half your babies culture. How many Thai people would be worried about farang cultural insensitivity living in farangland when it comes to their baby?!

[Scott]

Quite a number of years ago, there was a study on newborn infants that was done in San Francisco that compared caucasian babies with Asian babies. The study showed that caucasian babies cried more often, louder and for longer than did Asian babies.

When children are of mixed blood, you get mixed results. Quite a few people with children of mixed racial background have noted the same thing--the babies are fussier, louder and will cry longer than their full-Asian counterparts. Boys are also more boisterous than girls.

So, you might want to caution your M-i-L that changing the name might make her feel better, but it won't do much for the baby. Actually, what I think your dealing with is a power and control issue. You might want to tell her that your mother said you were the same way when you were a baby!

Congratulations and best of luck to you.

[roguegirl]

Quite a number of years ago, there was a study on newborn infants that was done in San Francisco that compared caucasian babies with Asian babies. The study showed that caucasian babies cried more often, louder and for longer than did Asian babies.

When children are of mixed blood, you get mixed results. Quite a few people with children of mixed racial background have noted the same thing--the babies are fussier, louder and will cry longer than their full-Asian counterparts. Boys are also more boisterous than girls.

So, you might want to caution your M-i-L that changing the name might make her feel better, but it won't do much for the baby. Actually, what I think your dealing with is a power and control issue. You might want to tell her that your mother said you were the same way when you were a baby!

Congratulations and best of luck to you.

Not sure about the differences of Asian babies versus Western babies. My cousin is now married to an American and their baby girl, born last April, has been nice and doesn't cry very much. Then there is also a NZ-er who is married to one of my childhood friend and their daughter doesn't cry that much too. Honestly, it is hard for me to actually believe in that San Francisco study.

Edited August 29, 2007 by roguegirl

[eek]

isnt there something you can do via a monk, if you want to just get some peace on the subject? If a monk says the name is auspicious im sure she will soon shush on the subject.

[cdnvic]

isnt there something you can do via a monk, if you want to just get some peace on the subject? If a monk says the name is auspicious im sure she will soon shush on the subject.

That could backfire too, and it'd just be giving in to the whole superstition thing.

[chownah]

My advice....be kind to your mother in law....if she is like my mother in law then she is trying to help you and your baby and your wife have a better life. You may disagree with her beliefs but they are her beliefs never the less and you should respect that....but that doesn't mean that you have to do what she says....but try to be patient and kind with her....she is only trying to help.

Edited August 29, 2007 by chownah

[canuckamuck]

Give in on this one Garro and she will own you and your fatherly choices.

These are the moments where you show you are a leader.

It has nothing to do with culture but a lot to do with manipulation.

[Patsycat]

So, what's his name?

[Scott]

In my overall experience the San Francisco study is valid. Of course, there are individual differences and variations. I have neighbors on either side who had newborns about the same time. One was so quiet, I thought something was wrong with it. The other screamed, wailed, fussed and cried so much, I was sure something was seriously wrong with it. Both families are Thai.

The point I am trying to make is that for the OP, he may need to help the M-i-L understand that there may be a difference that is attributable to something else and this may prevent a long-term habit of name changing--and I know people who subject their children to this on a regular basis--to the point that the kids don't have name recognition. You call their name and their's no response.

[ElectricNorth]

O man, raising this kid is going to be a chore.

Next, grandma will be scaring the hel_l out of him...ghosts.... spirits....potions... incense... chanting..curses... aaaagghhh!

Is that as she dances round the cauldron? (or the fire under the bed)

[vegas]

My mother in law told us that we had to bend our baby's legs on a daily basis (shin's are curved so that they can fit comfortably into the womb) or she would end up with bowed legs. She did this to my wife when she was a baby and hyper extended her knees (I know, farking idiot) and a surprisingly high percentage of Thais still believe that this is necessary.

You MIL asking you to change the name is ridiculous whether she means well or not.

My boss changed his name after a his monk told him it will be good for business, so it is common here for sure.

My missus tells her mother to mind her own business. Probably a bit strong, but she is 'new generation' Thai.

[jonniebkk]

My mother-in-law is trying to convince my wife that our baby's name, which I choose, is unlucky and that is why he cries so much. She wants us to change it.

I have said no way.

Am I being culturally insensive and unfair.

"A rose by another name is still a rose and smells as sweet..." I would just chill-out and relax. A name is just that, a name and nothing more. If they want to change the baby's name big deal. Thais are always changing their names because they think some other one is luckier or they are turning over a new leaf in some aspect of their llives and they want a new name to go with it. They do this officially...I gather it's not much of a hasstle to do this in LOS for the very reason that they believe this is such an important thing to do when necessary.

[roietjimmy]

Changing of names to change ones luck seems to be epidemic in Thailand. I personally know four Thais that have recently had their names changed for just this reason and a teacher friend has told me has to relearn many student names every year because they have changed their names. The name changing is done without a thought given to perhaps "changing their behavior/actions" to change their luck is the only solution!!

In Thailand, as we all know, luck or lack thereof is ingrained in day to day behavior. Names, the number of steps to the entry of a house, having the "proper" ceremonies when building a house, having ones car blessed by a monk, having the right amulet, etc. etc. all are thought to play a significant role in ones "luck". Given this, trying to use logic to persuade your MiL that your sons name has nothing to do with his crying will only irritate her and frustrate you.

If you want to try and restore family tranquility and peace, your idea of consulting a monk could be a good one as the MiL is likely to respect his opinion. As cdnvic has pointed out "this could backfire" so I strongly advise prior to having your MiL see the monk, your wife go talk with "the monk" first to make sure his opinion is "the name is a good one and not unlucky". BTW, make sure the monk is of a high status (abbot or ajarn) because his opinion will trump a junior monk's. Unfortunately, as is often the case (not just in Thailand), she will likely seek a multitude of second opinions until she gets an answer that reinforces her "unlucky name" conclusion.

Bottom line is you and your wife are responsible for the well being of your son and no one else has the right to interfere with the decisions you make. Based on this post, and others I have seen from you, your decisions regarding your son will be well thought out.

Don't let your concern over "cultural insensitivities" override your decisions or your son may end up with a tattoo of a tiger on his chest to make him invulnerable to bullets!!!

[threelegcowboy]

"If you want to try and restore family tranquility and peace, your idea of consulting a monk could be a good one as the MiL is likely to respect his opinion. As cdnvic has pointed out "this could backfire" so I strongly advise prior to having your MiL see the monk, your wife go talk with "the monk" first to make sure his opinion is "the name is a good one and not unlucky". BTW, make sure the monk is of a high status (abbot or ajarn) because his opinion will trump a junior monk's. Unfortunately, as is often the case (not just in Thailand), she will likely seek a multitude of second opinions until she gets an answer that reinforces her "unlucky name" conclusion."

This is some good advice but I would go one step further. You need a good trusted Thai friend and maybe not your wife. Go with this Thai Friend to see a trusted monk or fortune teller etc. Be ready to pay a small fee for a reading in your favor. Then make a known visit with your wife and some witnesses for the official visit for the reading. Then stand your ground and back this up for a lifetime.

Beat them at their own game. The "mother-in-law" is just trying to show her power in the family. Try to find a way for the "mother-in-law" to save face by making her an honorary something etc.

GOOD LUCK,

Edited August 30, 2007 by threelegcowboy