1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

I repeat, any income derived in the UK is subject to taxation.

I've been Non UK Tax Resident for 19 years & have never had to pay any additional Tax on my UK Dividends, Bank Interest or CGT...

It's termed "Disregarded Income", I've included the links to the HMRC page above but here's the key paragraph...

2. How is investment income charged to tax

With the exception of income from property in the UK and investment income connected to a trade in the UK through a permanent establishment, the tax charge for non-residents on investment income arising in the UK is restricted to the amount of tax, if any, deducted at source. If the tax charge is limited in this way, personal allowances will not be given against other income. This restriction does not apply in the overseas part of a split year.

1 hour ago, ronnie50 said:

Okay. But how does that work if you are completely non-resident (e.g. meet all the tests to prove it)? Does HMRC deduct an amount each week? Or do they pay the gross amount but then one is required to file a tax return based just on that 12-thousand-odd pounds each year? I've read conflicting pages even on the UK Gov site with some saying a gross amount will be paid while other pages are less clear.

If your income is, say, a private/occupational pension plus state pension then you pay tax on a PAYE basis. The state pension for 99% of people is covered by the annual tax allowance, currently £12,570 any unused element of that allowance then gets transposed into a tax code for your pension provider. For example, say your state pension is £10,000 - you have £2,570 available allowance to set off against any private pension, If that pension is £10,570 pa you take off the £2,570 allowance and tax is calculated on £8,000 ie 20% = £1,600 deducted, you receive £6,400 or £ 533.33 pm

1 hour ago, SamSpade said:

There may be reasons that it's better for you to do that but unless you're a UK Tax Resident then I have no idea why you're paying £20K in Tax - Is any of that withheld income or are the DIvidends from "Non Ordinary" assets, E.g. a Private Company you own?

Overview of Disregarded income...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/non-residents-and-investment-income-hs300-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs300-non-residents-and-investment-income-2023

I earn £38K from my (Non-ISA) investments, £20K from Shares, £9K from Gilts & £9K from MMFs and pay no tax on this or on any interest from my Bank accounts / (Non Property) Capital Gains.

If you are paying £20K in Tax (Which is a hell of an income) from "Ordinary" share Dividends, definately worth getting an accountant to do your UK Tax Returns for you, costs approx £250 pa & the money they save me on my UK Rental income alone more than makes up for this.

Yes.

My directorship of the private company "ties" me to being a UK resident.

3 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

If your income is, say, a private/occupational pension plus state pension then you pay tax on a PAYE basis. The state pension for 99% of people is covered by the annual tax allowance, currently £12,570 any unused element of that allowance then gets transposed into a tax code for your pension provider. For example, say your state pension is £10,000 - you have £2,570 available allowance to set off against any private pension, If that pension is £10,570 pa you take off the £2,570 allowance and tax is calculated on £8,000 ie 20% = £1,600 deducted, you receive £6,400 or £ 533.33 pm

Thanks for the explanation. In my case though, my occupational pension is not derived from the UK and never reaches its shores. So my only UK income would be the State Pension. Any idea how they approach that with a fully non-resident Brit (not liable for global income taxation in the UK)?

3 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

Surely you don't expect NOT to pay tax?

".................if you are 100% non resident in the UK (no home or rental property there, no businesses), you wouldn't be paying any tax there."

I was only answering a previous post!

4 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

Thanks for the explanation. In my case though, my occupational pension is not derived from the UK and never reaches its shores. So my only UK income would be the State Pension. Any idea how they approach that with a fully non-resident Brit (not liable for global income taxation in the UK)?

You are still entitled to the tax allowance (which always cover the state pension figure) so you should never pay UK tax.

2 hours ago, sambum said:

".................if you are 100% non resident in the UK (no home or rental property there, no businesses), you wouldn't be paying any tax there."

I was only answering a previous post!

We may have been at crossed purposes....but the bottom line is that income derived in the UK is taxable - usually in the UK, unless other arrangements have been agreed,

4 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

Yes.

My directorship of the private company "ties" me to being a UK resident.

That makes perfect sense.

10 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

You are still entitled to the tax allowance (which always cover the state pension figure) so you should never pay UK tax.

Right, thanks again. So the only outstanding question (for me) is whether they'd tax it at source at the basic rate, or whether they'd pay the gross amount. Either way, I guess I'd need to file a non-res income tax form the following year. That sound about right?

On 6/6/2026 at 10:28 AM, suspectdevice said:

I can't see this government changing position on this. Sir Stammer knows that the majority of pensioners vote Tory so he is attacking them from all sides.

He tried reducing the heating allowance for the OAPs but the backlash was too hot..... Then Liebour didn't increase the tax thresholds so millions of pensioners now pay tax that they didn't pay before.

Stammer said in the Mandelson files drop, " Who can i tax to pay the benefits?" His obvious target is the pensioners! 😡

Hasn’t the rule been in place under successive governments including many Tory?

As a non UK pensioner with no axe to grind, this doesn’t seem to be a political party issue.

1 hour ago, ronnie50 said:

Right, thanks again. So the only outstanding question (for me) is whether they'd tax it at source at the basic rate, or whether they'd pay the gross amount. Either way, I guess I'd need to file a non-res income tax form the following year. That sound about right?

They sort of tax it at source but the rate is 0% for the 1st 12,570 & State Pension is the 1st thing that goes into your "Income Pot", so it's Tax Free (putting aside people who's State Pension is above the 12,570 personal allowance).

No need to file a Self Assessment Tax return if this is your only income or if other income is from a private pension where you're taxed at source & don't need to claim anything back.

It's a lot more nuanced when you have other income E.g. In the case of property income if you earn >£10,000 net of expenses you always have to file a return.

18 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

To be fair Sandy, I don't think the government needed to sway opinion. Even the most rational of Brits has little/no interest in our situation.

We are over here, they are over there.

Fair point, but they were more than interested in taking our money to dish out.

Criminals get a sentence based on circumstances, expats get the same sentence, or a pardon.

19 hours ago, sambum said:

Just as a matter of interest, I still pay UK tax, and get NO benefits from my host Government (or expect to). But I do expect to be treated the same as any other pensioner who has paid into the system for more than 40 years! As regards the currency exchange rate, when I first moved to Thailand (my host country) the exchange rate was 73 baht to 1 GBP - it is now 43 baht to 1 GBP - almost halved in value! So apart from no annual increments to my State Pension (I do get an annual increase to my small works pension, and they don't care where I live - I'm entitled to it so I get it - the same as pensioners that live in the UK), apart from paying UK tax on my works pension, apart from no benefits from my host Government, apart from having to pay for all my medications (which I would get free in the UK) I am managing to survive! (If I hadn't sold my house in the UK a few years ago, it would be a far bleaker picture - and no, I didn't get a fantastic amount from the sale of my house - after the mortgage was paid off, I was left with about 50K GBP)

So, I do feel a bit aggrieved that every other country in Europe (as far as I know) pays its pensioners annual increments, regardless of where they live, and also I believe that the rate of State Pension in the UK is the lowest in Europe.

However, I can not complain about the weather! 😊

Quite, I had paid over the 44 years before they reduced it to 30, ended up with 49. Left school at 15 and spent all my working life in the UK, including 14 years in the RAF.

The government claims the policy has been in place for over 70 years, which means the reasons for it are over 70 years old.

How many have said there is a responsibility to right the wrongs of the past - appears only when it suits.

UK expats of certain countries frozen pension rule is immoral, arbitery and a ripoff , people paid into the pension for 45 years , and then have it stolen from them by corrupt politicians and bureaucrats

On 6/6/2026 at 4:54 AM, Limey125 said:

Starmer said no such thing

It was in the most recent perv Mandelson files drop.

4 hours ago, wensiensheng said:

Hasn’t the rule been in place under successive governments including many Tory?

As a non UK pensioner with no axe to grind, this doesn’t seem to be a political party issue.

Yes it has been in place over successive governments but with the pension rises and a private pension or with pension credits, it is now taking that income into the tax brackets. Liebour aren't increasing the tax threshold for the lower band so millions are now paying tax they didn't pay before. There is also a move towards cancelling the pension triple lock. However Sir Stammer is still throwing money at foreign countries and increasing spending on defence. Bombs before pensioners.

24 minutes ago, suspectdevice said:

It was in the most recent perv Mandelson files drop.

Yes it has been in place over successive governments but with the pension rises and a private pension or with pension credits, it is now taking that income into the tax brackets. Liebour aren't increasing the tax threshold for the lower band so millions are now paying tax they didn't pay before. There is also a move towards cancelling the pension triple lock. However Sir Stammer is still throwing money at foreign countries and increasing spending on defence. Bombs before pensioners.

Ok. So that’s moving on from the subject of frozen pensions to recent developments. Different conversation.

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Quite, I had paid over the 44 years before they reduced it to 30, ended up with 49. Left school at 15 and spent all my working life in the UK, including 14 years in the RAF.

The government claims the policy has been in place for over 70 years, which means the reasons for it are over 70 years old.

How many have said there is a responsibility to right the wrongs of the past - appears only when it suits.

Correct! They would rather invest money in the "boat people" crossing the Channel because they are all potential Labour voters, whereas pensioners living abroad (a) aren't worth the trouble - after all, who would be canvasing them for their votes? and (b) some/most of them do not vote anyway, and © which politician would be willing to go against the trend of the "under the carpet" syndrome?

In practical terms it doesn't make much sense. What's the average increase? Around 3-4%?

If you are on the maximum 12,500-odd, a 3.5% increase is around 400 pounds for the year or 37 pounds per month. Of course it then goes up again the next year and so on. My point is this is not a huge cost for the governments, since they are already giving it to those (majority of pensioners) who live inside the UK. Seems to me for those expats already paying income tax to the UK, they should have every right to the annual increase.

On 6/10/2026 at 7:51 AM, wensiensheng said:

Ok. So that’s moving on from the subject of frozen pensions to recent developments. Different conversation.

It is showing why the son of the toolmaker won't be changing policy on pensions anytime soon.

I'm a bit busy at the moment,but somebody should set themselves on fire close to 10 Downing St

12 hours ago, suspectdevice said:

It is showing why the son of the toolmaker won't be changing policy on pensions anytime soon.

Successive UK governments have made their stance on this issue very clear. And all the indications are that you are right that the policy won’t change any time soon.

I get that you are not a fan of Starmer and I suspect the Labour party generally ( hope I am not pidgeon holing you there), but would the policy change under a Tory government? History suggests not.

I’m not so sure what would happen under a Reform government, simply because they haven’t been in power before and I’m not aware that they haven’t set out a position on the matter.

Lib Dems, again I’m not sure, but I suspect they would adopt a similar position on this as Labour and the Tories.

The thing is, there is a reason why pensions are frozen for pensioners living in Thailand and not, for example Philippines. Successive UK governments have followed that reasoning.

End result is that this pension freezing issue forms part of the decision making process of whether to move to Thailand or not. Were it ever to change, it would be a big bonus, but hoping that it might change is likely to be a lesson in disappointment.

Lol, I was going to post that I'd read in the paper the other day Andy Burnham was going to support WASPIs getting compensation for lost pensions and how this might bode well for Frozen State Pensions but then in this mornings papers I see he's done a U-Turn on it already....

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/andy-burnham-waspi-women-compensation-b2994096.html

This Labour government is an absolute shambles and it doesn't look like a change in leadership is going to improve things any.

59 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

Lol, I was going to post that I'd read in the paper the other day Andy Burnham was going to support WASPIs getting compensation for lost pensions and how this might bode well for Frozen State Pensions but then in this mornings papers I see he's done a U-Turn on it already....

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/andy-burnham-waspi-women-compensation-b2994096.html

This Labour government is an absolute shambles and it doesn't look like a change in leadership is going to improve things any.

Yes, disappointing. The last prospective PM to actually state that all UK citizens living overseas would get the same uplift as those living in the UK was Jeremy Corbyn in 2019. And look what happened to him!

Unfortunately, as a hard working British tax-payer on an average salary, I can't afford to subsidise the income of people lucky enough to do nothing but sit on their arse for the best part of 30 years in the UK, let alone a sunny climate.

On 6/6/2026 at 2:43 PM, BritManToo said:

Took about an hour for both using the phone.

You can't do over the phone filling out a claim to pay class 3 contributions while abroad

43 minutes ago, arick said:

You can't do over the phone filling out a claim to pay class 3 contributions while abroad

I used Skype with a UK number.

Didn't want the UK government to ever see a foreign number.

On 6/6/2026 at 8:30 AM, Farage said:

I guess the gov thinks its more important to use the funds to support illegal migrants ...mobile phones, hotels, free food, free medical, free transport....

The government doesn't support illegal immigrants in any way except for emergency medical treatment that everyone in the country is entitled to regardless of their status.

On 6/6/2026 at 8:56 AM, PeterA said:

How would the government react if the all the retirees returned to the UK, in need of hospital care, government assistance, housing ect? I wonder how loud the govt would scream about the cost and tell everyone to move to Thailand?

obviously, they wouldn't react that way at all.

As I have never had a pension*, forgive the stupid question: has no UK pensioner here ever saved money in the bank, the stock market or other investments above and beyond the pension?

I only ask because the British pension is so small. Interest is higher in the UK than Thailand.

Has anyone ever saved enough to retire?

*I paid B750 a month into social security in Thailand.

4 minutes ago, Purdey said:

As I have never had a pension*, forgive the stupid question: has no UK pensioner here ever saved money in the bank, the stock market or other investments above and beyond the pension?

I only ask because the British pension is so small. Interest is higher in the UK than Thailand.

Has anyone ever saved enough to retire?

*I paid B750 a month into social security in Thailand.

I wonder that myself. How so many can be in almost dire straights, when we, most of us, were born in the post WW II, and some of the best economic times.

Myself, untrained, uneducated, LPOS, and still managed a comfy retirement. Crap company pension, as only 13 yrs of service, along with taken early, and heavily penalized for that. Govt pension, forced contributions to (USA Soc Sec), and almost enough to live on, though didn't depend on either for retirement.

I myself had to deal with 3 bankrupted industries, 2 not keeping up, one (airlines) that I worked in, and 3 out of 4 companies filed bankruptcy. So no easy ride for me in the salaried employment field, with only the last one, 13 short yrs, paying a decent wage.

Others, educated, trained, better connected faired much better in the employment, corporate world, and managed a good retirement pension + govt Soc Sec.

The ones inbetween, seemed to make even more bad choices than myself, and struggle. Not seeing how that is even possible, especially when many, most, probably made way more money than myself, in both the blue or white collar world. Reading about too many struggling.

Different from the folks I personally know, that fall into the above categories, and seem to be enjoying retirement.

Sorry, I'm not that lucky, or that smart, so just don't understand why so many struggle.

Edited July 18Jul 18 by KhunLA