Retirement visa - i just received mine!

[Roger13]

Didn't you have to show some proof of financial standing to get your Non-O in another Asian country?  

Hi Steve,

Yes - I showed that funds were available.

Roger

[LRimmler]

Hi Roger13,

Things definitely are not consistent when dealing with Thai embassy/consulate people.  The Thai web site in LA http://www.thai-la.net/non-im.htm says to access the Thai web site at http://www.mfa.go.th/web/12.php#Type for information.  That Thai web site states:

QUOTE

VISA ISSUANCE FOR TEMPORARY RESIDENCE [ NON-IMMIGRANT "O-A" (LONG STAY)]

          This type of visa will be issued to applicants aged 50 years or above wishing to take retreat in the Kingdom at least for the period of one year.

    I. QUALIFICATION OF THE APPLICNAT

A foreign national whose age is 50 years or above (on the date of submitting the application).

Not being prohibited from entering the Kingdom under the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (A.D.1979).

Having no criminal record against the security of Thailand and the country of his/her nationality, or the country of his/her residence.

Having the nationality of or the residence in the country where his/her application is submitted.            

Not having prohibitive diseases (Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Drug Addiction, Elephantiasis and Third step of Syphilis) as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535).  

Not being allowed to work in Thailand.

    II. REQUIRED DOCUMENTS FOR VISA APPLICATION

A passport with validity not less than 18 months

Three copies of visa application form completely filled out.

Three passport-sized photos of the applicant taken within

the past six months.

A personal Data Form

A copy of bank statement showing a deposit at the amount equal to not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthy income totalling not less than 800,000 Baht.  

In the case of the bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is to be shown as well.  

Verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record issued from the country of his/her nationality or residence (the verification shall be valid for not more than three months and should be notorized by notary organs or the applicant’s diplomatic/consular mission).

A medical certificate issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535) (the certificate shall be valid for not more than three months and should be notorized by notary organs or the applicant’s diplomatic/consular mission).

In the case that the applicant wishes to have his/her spouse stay together in the Kingdom but the spouse is not qualified for the “O-A” visa, their marriage certificate shall also be produced as evidence and should be notorized by notary organs or the applicant’s diplomatic/consular mission. (The spouse will be considered for temporary stay under category “O”).

QUOTE

As is indicated "Having the nationality of or the residence in the country where his/her application is submitted" would seem to preclude getting a Type O-A Retirement visa from anywhere other than your home country and that documents indicating "no criminal record issued from the country of his/her nationality or residence" and "a medical certificate issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases" are both required.  It sounds like you have been lucky also.

It's also interesting that the "copy of bank statement showing a deposit at the amount equal to not less than 800,000 Baht" would seem to refer to a bank in the applicants home country and makes no mention of a transfer to a Thai bank.  

If I read you correctly you indicate that money does have to be transfered after 3 months (90 days).  This will be news to my friend.  No wonder that there are so many questions about the Retirement Visa.  What amount must be transfered at that time and how easy is it to transfer it back out when leaving Thailand?

There's a lot of good information on this forum.

[Roger13]

It's also interesting that the "copy of bank statement showing a deposit at the amount equal to not less than 800,000 Baht" would seem to refer to a bank in the applicants home country and makes no mention of a transfer to a Thai bank.  

If I read you correctly you indicate that money does have to be transfered after 3 months (90 days).

Hi LRimmler,

You are quoting requirements for the

90 day O Visa - which as you say does not require

transfer of the money to Thailand.

To apply in Thailand for the initial 9 month Extension

(and subsequent annual extensions)

the money has to be in a Bank in Baht in Thailand,

WITHIN the 90 days as it has to support your extension

application within the last 30 days (of the 90).

I am not familiar with the Exchange Control regulations

in Thailand - but posts here by others say that transferring

out what you personally transferred in is not a problem.

(Of course ANY country can change their EC regs. at any time.)

I obtained my O visa some years ago.

Police & Medical Certs were not a requirement then.

It does seem to me that Immigration Officials do

have quite wide parameters of Discretion -

To favour well dressed / polite /patient individuals

and to be very "rule-bound" with overbearing

/ demanding / disrespectful persons.

Roger

[zen4dummies]

I started the process to convert a 60 day Tourist visa to a retirement visa two months ago and it is going OK so far.  I was on the final weeks of a 60 day tourist visa. I had opened a savings account with Thai Farmers Bank and had arranged for $1550 (65,000 baht) to be transferred into the account each month. I took the evidence of that with bank statements and such to the Thai Immigration. I went to room 303 and the guy on the information desk, Kuhn Pallop, told me he wanted to see 800,000 baht in the account. I only had 10,000. He did not care about evidence that a monthly transfer was set up and did not even look at my bank statements. He said put the money in and it would be no problem. I had the money wired to my TFB account with one hangup. American banks use a routing number and everybody else in the world uses a SWIFT number. The Thai bank had no idea what I was talking about when I asked for a routing number and my Amex man in San Diego had never heard of a SWIFT number. I had him call the TFB in Los Angeles and she gave him the routing number. When the money was in my Thai account I took:

1. The document the bank gave me for 100 baht. This was all in Thai except for my name. It had my account number and balance on it.

2. The document that you must get from the US Embassy. This document certifies that you have a monthly income of whatever number you want to put down. They notarize it for $30.

3. A photocopy of my bank book and my bank book.

4. A photocopy of my passport.

5. My passport.

6. Two passport photos. Kuhn Pallop did not want Polaroid photos.

First Kuhn Pallop had me get a 30 day extension on my tourist visa. Then he needed a document from TFB that proved the money came in from outside of Thailand. He called my bank and arranged for that. I got that and filled out the visa conversion paperwork. He looked it over, took the 500 baht fee and gave me a receipt with an appointment date about a month from then. At that time he said he would give me the retirement visa.  When I returned at the end of the month what I actually got was an O visa that was valid for three months.  You cannot convert a Tourist visa directly to a Retirement visa.  He told me to come back in three months and I could convert to a Retirement visa at that time.  That will be in about a month.  For another 1000 baht you can get a Reentry Permit stamped on your visa.  If you leave the country without it I think that you would come back in on a 30 day Tourist visa and have to repeat the above process.

A friend had a type O visa and got it converted into a retirement visa in one afternoon, Retirement stamped on his passport that day.  He happened to have his bankbook with him and had more than the required amount in the account.

By the way, be prepared to answer the question "Why do you want to live in Thailand?"  They like to hear that you want to study the culture and language.  When I attempted to get the O-A visa in LA the woman in charge asked me why I wanted to live in Thailand and I told her I liked the beaches and islands. I gave her a tourist answer and she gave me a tourist visa.  I told her the website said I could get an O-A through her embassy and she told me that she would decide what kind of visa I would get.  I don't know of anyone that has had any pleasant dealings with the woman in LA but I understand that Portland and Denver have Thai Consulates that are much easier to deal with.    

BTW there is no requirement for police check or medical check when you apply here in Thailand.

    zen

[zen4dummies]

Does anyone know if you can keep the money in your home country bank and just show proof that you have 800,000 baht saved?

There is a Bangkok Bank branch in New York - I wonder if placing money there would qualify?

The money has to be in a Thai bank.  I attempted to open an account in the Thai bank branches in Los Angeles and was told thay they could only transfer money into existing accounts.  From what I was told you have to be in Thailand to open an account.

[Lancelot]

I went to room 303 and the guy on the information desk, Kuhn Pallop, told me he wanted to see 800,000 baht in the account. I only had 10,000. He did not care about evidence that a monthly transfer was set up and did not even look at my bank statements. ..........I had the money wired to my TFB account with one hangup. American banks use a routing number and everybody else in the world uses a SWIFT number. The Thai bank had no idea what I was talking about when I asked for a routing number and my Amex man in San Diego had never heard of a SWIFT number. ..............

1. The document the bank gave me for 100 baht. This was all in Thai except for my name. It had my account number and balance on it.

First Kuhn Pallop had me get a 30 day extension on my tourist visa. Then he needed a document from TFB that proved the money came in from outside of Thailand. He called my bank and arranged for that. I got that and filled out the visa conversion paperwork. He looked it over, took the 500 baht fee and gave me a receipt with an appointment date about a month from then. At that time he said he would give me the retirement visa.  When I returned at the end of the month what I actually got was an O visa that was valid for three months.  

You cannot convert a Tourist visa directly to a Retirement visa.  

He told me to come back in three months and I could convert to a Retirement visa at that time.  

Zen,

My experience with Khun Pallop was similar to yours, except that I do not have a monthly pension transfer (I do not get Social Securiy and bank wire fees are too expensive.)

My US bank is Net Bank; the NB rep gave me wire transfer instructions via e-mail (including a swift code.) The money was posted to my Bangkok bank account the next business day.

Khun Pallop does not accept my BKK bank letter certifying my bank balance (cost me 200 baht), so I return to BKK bank and get another certified letter (all in Thai) saying about the same thing, but on green stationary (another 200 baht)-this document makes Khun P happy and he continuses processing my application.

Khun Pallop made me extend my toursit Visa for 30 days before he would process my 90 type "0" Non-Imm Visa.

Khun Pallop told me to return "around" April 23 to get my 90 day type "O"; I returned on on April 22 and he tells me "Please come again tomorrow. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! I am polite but wonder Huh?!? But the next day, April 23, I get the 90 day type "O' Non-Imm, no problem. Khun Pallop tells me to return on June 23, room 102 for the Retirement Visa (which I did on June 19 and finally received my R Visa.)

Yea, Khun P is inconsistent!

All the best,

Lance

[stevebkk]

Chicken and Egg

I too am applying for a Retirement Visa and started making inquiries last November while visiting Thailand.  The encouragement I received was that TAT promotes over-50s who are in receipt of a pension (a position I expected to be in soon).  Also, I met three people who hold Non-O Visas and one told me he was given the thing at the Thai Embassy in London because he was a regular visitor to Thailand: AND HE DIDN'T EVEN ASK FOR A NON-O.  (But he didn't say no).

I wasn't based in UK so went to my nearest Thai Embassy, showed the TAT literature and asked politely for a Non-Immigrant Type O Visa as a preliminary to retiring in Thailand sometime in Spring 2003.  The consul looked at the TAT printout and said "We are not a Travel Agency."  He then declared that a Non-O is only for foreigners married to Thais and gave me a 60-day Tourist.

I moved to BKK in January 2003 and started to get all the papers together.  At the second attempt I received a Non-O Single Entry in Vientiane by showing the originals of all paperwork and providing copies.

The only extra piece of paper I've obtained for the 'A' Retirement Visa is a letter from the British Embassy stating that 'nothing is known to the detriment of the applicant.'  (Cost 1400 baht).

There is much confusion in this area.  I see that Thai Airways and Mr Thaksin are attempting to promote Luck Is In The Air Tourism, and TAT is promoting Long-Stay Tourism, but obtaining a long-stay visa appears to be more like a lottery than a rational and systematic process.

Steve

[Lancelot]

I just realised that if you entered Thailand

on 19th February with a 60 day Tourist Visa,

it must have already EXPIRED when you

visited Immigration on 23rd April ????

Roger,

I re-checked my passport stamps and I see that I first applied for my Retirement Visa on March 25. Khun Pallop said that I would have to change my Visa to a Type "O", Non Immigration.

Khun Pallop made me extended my February 19, 2003 "Penang" Tourist Visa on March 25.

I returned to Immigration on April 23 and received my 90 day Type "O" Non-Immigrant Visa.

I again returned to Immigration on June 19 and received my Retirement Visa and got a multiple re-entry stamp.

So, I wasn't over on my 60 day Toursit Visa; I just omitted that information on my posts.

Sorry!

Lance

[Roger13]

There is much confusion in this area.  

... obtaining a long-stay visa appears to be more like a lottery than a rational and systematic process.

Hi Steve,

I think it is fair to say that the Requirements

are well documented ... although there would seem to have been a change in giving O visas in Bangkok to Tourist Visa holders - from Lance & Zen's experience.

The Confusion seems to arise from the wide discretionary powers that the Immgration Officers apparently have in applying the rules.

It is my OPINION that the Rules are there to be applied to

disrepectful / demanding individuals.

On the other hand while the financial rules state

Capital OR Income criteria should be met - I get the

IMPRESSION that most Retirees are required to show both.

Does anybody have experience of complying with

only ONE of these "alternatives" ?

Roger

[LRimmler]

Roger13 and Lancelot,

This feed gets more interesting all the time.

It sounds like the money transfer can also get a bit dicey because of different routing codes (SWIFT and routing numbers.)  

Lancelot, you mentioned that "bank wire fees are too expensive" and that you use Net Bank to wire the money - Are they cheaper with wire transfers or did you use another means to get the funds into your BKK bank account?

[Lancelot]

 

Lancelot, you mentioned that "bank wire fees are too expensive" and that you use Net Bank to wire the money - Are they cheaper with wire transfers or did you use another means to get the funds into your BKK bank account?

LRimmler,

Yes I used wire transfers to transfer the funds to Thailand. BKK Bank has a branch in New York City so the fees are:

Domestic Net Bank to BKK Bank NYC Branch - $15 USD

BKK Bank NYC Branch to BKK Bank, Thailand - $5 USD

BKK Bank, Thailand - Maximum of 500 Baht

Total - about $32 USD, depending on exchange rates.

Net Bank's International Wire transfer fees are about $40 USD, then one still has th BKK Bank fees.

I only have one US bank account (Net Bank) so I am locked into their fees. Net Bank will not make an "ACH" (electronic debit) and I could not get BKK Bank to initiate one on my behalf (maybe the difference in banking protocools?)

Anyway, I only plan on making one money "wire" transfer a year so I just write off the fees to a cost of living in the LOS.

One offset is that I receive the "wholesale" exchange rate when using a wire. Depending on the amount transfered, the better exchange rate can totally offset the (wire) transfer fees. (exchange rate as compared to regular ATM withdrawls with my Net bank ATM card)

All the best.

Lance

[hukster]

I am also moving to Thailand next month. I will be getting married in August. I will be living in Pattaya, so that's the immigation office i will be dealing with for my O visa for support of a thai wife, and her son. Has anyone had any experience with the immigration office on Soi 8 in Pattaya? I tried to get some info from the Los angekes consulate. There response was we don't knpw what they do in Thailand, it's up to immigration. So i've decided to just apply for a tourist visa double entry.

[Lancelot]

So i've decided to just apply for a tourist visa double entry.

Hukster,

If you can, try to get a 90 day Non-Immigrant, Type "O" Visa in the USA.

If I could redo my Retirement Visa "Saga" I would DEFINATELY try for a Retirement (or even 90 day Non-Imm Type "O") Visa in the US.

Just my opinion,

Lance

[mesquite]

while the financial rules state

Capital OR Income criteria should be met - I get the

IMPRESSION that most Retirees are required to show both.

Does anybody have experience of complying with

only ONE of these "alternatives" ?

Roger

Roger,

It would appear that Lance had only to comply with the 800000 baht requirement.  No pension.  An Oz buddy of mine had no pension and had no problem after he put 800000 baht into a Thai bank.  

As I mentioned in a previous post, I had pension income documentation and they still wanted 800000 baht in a bank in Thailand, but later said 200000 would be OK (only after I asked for a lower amount- we'll see if they stick to that when I apply).

It would appear having a pension is useless for purposes of obtaining a retirement visa.  800000 baht is both necessary and sufficient.    

Putting 800000 baht into a Thai bank creates hassles with US income tax.  Americans are required to report foreign bank accounts over $10,000 US on their income tax forms AND file form TDF 90-22.1 with the Treasury Department.   I'll do it if I have to, but I'd rather not.

[LRimmler]

Lancelot,

Receiving the "wholesale" exchange rate in place of the ATM rate sounds like it is a good deal.  I kept track of the Travelers Check exchange rate and the ATM exchange rate the last time I was in BKK and found that the Travelers Check exchange rate still beat the ATM rate so it would be nice to do better then the ATM rate.  

I guess it also helps if the transfer is made when the dollar or Euro or whatever are up (unlike now).  

I was told (via the www.pattayaexpatsclub.com site) that one can transfer the money back out of the Thailand bank right after getting the Retirement Visa. I guess that good be useful if one thought that the exchange rate would go back up soon.

I think you did good by getting your visa in Thailand.  My friend just got his in the USA (LA).  He had to get the medical check and criminal check and they ran him around quite a bit also.  The pattayaexpatsclub site mentions that it is easier to get visa by going thru "Honorary" Thai Consulate General offices in ones home country.

In regards to your getting your visa in Thailand do any of the following apply?

The following applicants may apply for this type of visa in Thailand:

Applicants undergoing Health Rehabilitation Programs in hospitals or Health Centers. These organizations will apply on behalf of the individual applicant.

Applicants who are spouses / parents / children of applicants above.

Applicants through agencies or organizations approved by the Office of the Immigration Bureau that have applied for a visa on their behalf. The above mentioned applicants must have qualifications stated in I.

____

[Roger13]

Putting 800000 baht into a Thai bank creates hassles with US income tax.  Americans are required to report foreign bank accounts over $10,000 US on their income tax forms AND file form TDF 90-22.1 with the Treasury Department.

Hi MesQuite,

I don't know if this helps your situation.

I have my money in two accounts (at the same bank).

One is a savings Account the other a Fixed deposit.

In their letter to Immigration the Bank lists details

- a/c number & balance - of the two accounts.

Would separate accounts each with less than $10,000

satisfy not being required to make that report?

It would be interesting to hear from someone who

was able to obtain a Retirement Visa with only

the Pension "Alternative"

Roger

[LRimmler]

USA Retires

In regards to filing form TD F 90-22.1 with the Treasury Department

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-fill/f9022-1.pdf says:

"General Instructions

Who Must File this Report Each Unites States person, who has a financial interest in or signature authority, or other authority over any financial accounts, including bank, securities, or other types of

financial accounts in a foreign country, if the aggregate value of these financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year, must report that relationship each calendar year by filing TD F 90-22.1 with the Department of the Treasury on or before June 30, of the succeeding year."

Note that is says: "if the aggregate value of these financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year".  It says "account(s)" and "at any time".

It would seem to indicate that one can not eliminate the need to file TD F 90-22.1 by transfering in and transfering out any amount over $10,000 nor by splitting the funds over multiple accounts.

I think this form is trying to eliminate a means of money laundering.

[hukster]

Hi Lance,

I am unable to get a Type O in the usa because i will need a type O for support of a thai relative and i'm not married as of yet. The reason i am not applying for a retirement visa is because i don't want to transfer the 800,000 baht. I can open an account with 250,000 baht for the type o for support.

The Los angeles consulate is not very helpfull.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Until you are married you are not strictly eligible for any O visa, and the lesser amount of funds in a Thai bank for a visa extension  is not an option until you can produce a marriage certificate at Immigration, together with the letter from the Thai bank evidencing your funds. In the meantime, try the Thai Consulate General in Housten. You are much more likely to get help from there than LA or DC. Try for a multiple entry

[Lancelot]

In regards to your getting your visa in Thailand do any of the following apply?

The following applicants may apply for this type of visa in Thailand:

Applicants undergoing Health Rehabilitation Programs in hospitals or Health Centers. These organizations will apply on behalf of the individual applicant.

Applicants who are spouses / parents / children of applicants above.

Applicants through agencies or organizations approved by the Office of the Immigration Bureau that have applied for a visa on their behalf. The above mentioned applicants must have qualifications stated in I.

____

LRimmler,

In answer to your post:

1) N/A (Not applicable)

2) N/A

3) N/A

I am single, no dependents and just muddled through the whole process by myself.

BUT my Thai GF helped me alot when I went to Immigration AND information gained from this forum and the Thai Visa Dot Com site was a VERY helpful!

Thanks Board,

Lance

[Lancelot]

I have my money in two accounts (at the same bank).

One is a savings Account the other a Fixed deposit.

In their letter to Immigration the Bank lists details

- a/c number & balance - of the two accounts.

Roger,

Does Immigration hassle you about having money in two different bank accounts? I ask because interest rates are so low, that I have been thinking about investing part of my required 800k (THB) bank balance in some fixed income Thai mutual funds.

Bank of Asia seems to have some bond funds that pay better rates of return with acceptible risk. BUT....... I wonder how the nice folks at immigration will "interpret" a bank statement with two or three different accounts (totaling 800K THB.)

Any comments? In your (and the Board's opinion) good or bad idea?

Thanks,

Lance

PS-In any case, I am considering changing to BOA; BKK Bank -my current bank- is not very user friendly. They will not give me Internet Banking, even though I have 800k deposited with their firm. Reason? Only foreigners with a work permit can have Internet Banking access? Grrrrrrrrrrrrr! I can't have a work permit because I am retired! I wrote a letter of "appeal" to the President of BKK Bank, but, to date, no reply.

May pen ray, TIT!!

[Roger13]

Hi Lance,

Sorry - I am not aware of Immigration attitude to

Thai mutual funds.

My Fixed Deposit a/c has a Passbook the same as

Savings a/c - but both are very low interest rates.

For the past 3 years Immigration accept a Letter from the

Bank Listing the details - a/c number & balance

of the 2 accounts.

Roger

[hukster]

Hi Lance,

Yes this does apply since i am getting married in august. Thank you very much you just answered my question. I can get the O visa in Thailand for support of a Thai relative.

[hukster]

Doc,

I live in Los Angeles, and the LA consulate services Los Angeles. Houston will not except my application. Anyway once i'm married i can get the O visa at immigration.

[Roger13]

I am unable to get a Type O in the usa because i will need a type O for support of a thai relative and i'm not married as of yet. The reason i am not applying for a retirement visa is because i don't want to transfer the 800,000 baht. I can open an account with 250,000 baht for the type o for support.

Hi Hukster,

I wonder if the following suggestion is Acceptable

to you & whether others consider it possible.

You could apply for an O Visa for Retirement.

But in Thailand use the O Visa to apply for a Family

Support extension ...

Dr Pat / George - Would that work ?? Any Problems?

one is surely entitled to Change ones mind?

I don't think the Sticker indicates the basis of the Visa?

Or do the Consulates forward documentation to Bangkok...

Roger

[george]

one is surely entitled to Change ones mind?

I don't think the Sticker indicates the basis of the Visa?

Or do the Consulates forward documentation to Bangkok...

No problems. You can use an "O" visa for both marriage, retirement or family support extension. The consulates does not forward to Bangkok, only in fraud cases etc.

[hukster]

Thanks guys, but i think i will still try it the other way. I don't want to take the chance of having to put 800,000 baht in a thai bank. i'm ok with 250, 0r 300 but 800,000 is a lot to risk.

[Roger13]

Hi Hukster,

OK - but please do let us know how you get on.

(BTW - my suggestion was designed to AVOID

having to transfer 800k - which you would only

be required to do after arriving in Thailand

- AND if you proceeded along the Retirement Track.

But I am not trying to convince you - because

these things can take unexpected turns. But just

thought I would clarify my idea - both for you and

any others following this thread.)

Roger

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The money is not at risk .....assess your banker as you'd do at home. I am unconvinced that the O visa will be available within Thailand. Posts seem to indicate to the contrary, but personally I don't believe it.   The money needs to be there each year at renewal time only.

[Lancelot]

I am unconvinced that the O visa will be available within Thailand. Posts seem to indicate to the contrary, but personally I don't believe it.

Dr Pat,

I will be happy to meet you and show you the stamps in my passport, proving that I changed my Toursist Visa to 90 day Non-Immigrant Type "O" (received in Thailand.)

Starbucks at Sukumvit?

Lance