Englishman Arrested For Dealing Methamphetamine

[canadiangirl]

Seems that nowadays kids are scientifically more advanced than we were when we were kids.

IMHO, this is because of the internet. The internet has been great for getting accurate, scientific information about drug use out to people (if you look in the right places -- obviously there's a lot of crap too), instead of relying on authorities who claim that smoking one spliff is two steps away from a needle in the arm, or "informal" information from other drug users (which is usually crap, unless you're friends with chemistry grads students)

With most of the new "designer" drugs (I always picture some poufy Karl Lagerfeld type holding a test tube when I read this in the news), it's not too hard to get info because many of them were invented by the same chemist, Shulgin, who has published very detailed information about his research, a lot of which you can get on the net.

No sane person, even one who uses drugs personally, will deny that drugs aren't for everyone. But illegality limits access to the facts people need to make sound decisions for themselves about drug use. It also hampers legitimate research by scientific researchers, as in the case you mention with pain and marijuana.

When we took speed, we often mixed it with valium to cut the edge. A heavy dose of valium at the end helped us coming down as well. When we took LSD we generally carried valium as well in case the trip went bad, which is an extremely uncomfortable experience.

The worst, and longest lasting comedown i have experienced with any drug was with Yaa Maa.

Drug users often know very well what helps countering effects of particular drugs. The problem with illegality is, that education about the real dangers and effects of the particular substances is hardly possible, resulting in often very dangerous experiments with different substances.

Kids will take drugs, regardless of legalities. Some of the modern substances are extremely dangerous. Education about drugs is for me not just about the dangers, but also if taken, how it should be taken to minimalise damage, which can be considerable.

I've never tried speed, it's somehow a drug that has never appealed to me. Paul Erdos is a famous mathematician who swore by it, did it all the time. He quit for a 3 months (?), on a bet that he couldn't. His verdict afterwards was that mathematics was set back by 3 months when he quit speed, and he was never going to quit again. He lived to a ripe old age, I think.

I really agree with what you are saying about education and illegality. The other aspect is not just physical -- but also mental and emotional. I think there is a mental and emotional risk with taking certain drugs, especially the more mind-expanding ones, and without access to good information, it's very easy for people to fall into experiences that they aren't capable of dealing with. But I think with good preparation and understanding of what to expect, occasional drug use can be a very positive experience for some people.

[wilko]

I am not a neurologist, but i think my amateurish assessment was not that wrong:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/229/4717/986

Hallucinogenic amphetamine selectively destroys brain serotonin nerve terminals

G Ricaurte, G Bryan, L Strauss, L Seiden, and C Schuster

(+/-)-3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA), an amphetamine analog with hallucinogenic activity, produced selective long-lasting reductions in the level of serotonin, the number of serotonin uptake sites, and the concentration of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid in rat brain. Morphological studies suggested that these neurochemical deficits were due to serotonin nerve terminal degeneration. These results show that MDA has toxic activity for serotonin neurons in rats and raise the question of whether exposure to MDA and related hallucinogenic amphetamines can produce serotonin neurotoxicity in the human brain.

I once had a conversation with a psychiatrist about MDMA and 5-htp (a supplement that claims to be a precursor to serotonin), relating to serotonin depletion in the brain. "Unofficially", lots of kids take 5-htp before dropping e, and after, to help recovery.

I was surprised to hear that

1) the serotonin mechanism in the brain is very poorly understood by modern medicine

2) 5-htp is being researched to treat depression

3) maybe mdma and 5-htp tamper with the serotonin mechanism, but so do modern anti-depressants like SSRIs.

Now will someone outline the effects of alcohol consumption?

Brain damage

aggression

memory loss and repeated postings on Thai Visa...about the same thing?

[Maigo6]

Now will someone outline the effects of alcohol consumption?

Brain damage

aggression

memory loss and repeated postings on Thai Visa..

Sounds about right...

[canadiangirl]

Now will someone outline the effects of alcohol consumption?

Brain damage

aggression

memory loss and repeated postings on Thai Visa...about the same thing?

You've hit on the thing annoys me the most about discussion about drugs:

Why is that people only consider the bad side of drugs? Drugs do have a bad side, no argument there. But they also have good sides. It's like trying to decide if people should drive by only talking about car accidents, but never mentioning any of the benefits of driving.

Someone brought up a poor girl who became addicted against her will, her life ending in quite a sad way. I certainly feel sorry for this girl, and certainly this should have never happened -- but -- would you condemn all driving because of that idiot who plowed into passers-by in his mercedez?

Re: alcohol: You raise a good point. What "drugs" are legal and illegal is not just a simple matter of which are not dangerous vs. dangerous. Looking at the history of how various drug laws are passed over the past few centuries -- tons of it is politics. Canada's first drug law (against opium) was largely motivated by racism against the Chinese immigrants who came over to build our railroads. Similarly with the U.S. it's first laws against marijuana were directed at african-americans.

I wouldn't do speed, personally, but to those saying "it's illegal, that's why it's bad!" -- I beg to differ. Amphetamines were available as diet pills until quite recently, and are now available as Ritalin for 10-year old Johnny who can't concentrate in school -- that's it, speed for kids.

[ColPyat]

With most of the new "designer" drugs (I always picture some poufy Karl Lagerfeld type holding a test tube when I read this in the news), it's not too hard to get info because many of them were invented by the same chemist, Shulgin, who has published very detailed information about his research, a lot of which you can get on the net.

I have lived once with a drug designer for two months or so in Indonesia, twenty years ago. Amazing!

The guy was a working chemist, a researcher for a big pharmaceutical company, and his hobby was designing drugs. He truly was on a different plane of existence. He was there on a holiday testing his inventions himself, and sharing freely. When he went back home he left me his leftovers - a huge box off all sort of esoteric stuff, most i have given away though to the other surfers.

Drugs do have also different effects on different people. For me nowadays, i do prefer not to do them anymore - it just doesn't suit my lifestyle. I have responsibilities, and the older i get the more problems i have coping with the effects. They seem to have a much stronger effect on me nowadays, and the comedown is rarely pleasant.

[Neeranam]

I am not a neurologist, but i think my amateurish assessment was not that wrong:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/229/4717/986

Hallucinogenic amphetamine selectively destroys brain serotonin nerve terminals

G Ricaurte, G Bryan, L Strauss, L Seiden, and C Schuster

(+/-)-3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA), an amphetamine analog with hallucinogenic activity, produced selective long-lasting reductions in the level of serotonin, the number of serotonin uptake sites, and the concentration of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid in rat brain. Morphological studies suggested that these neurochemical deficits were due to serotonin nerve terminal degeneration. These results show that MDA has toxic activity for serotonin neurons in rats and raise the question of whether exposure to MDA and related hallucinogenic amphetamines can produce serotonin neurotoxicity in the human brain.

I once had a conversation with a psychiatrist about MDMA and 5-htp (a supplement that claims to be a precursor to serotonin), relating to serotonin depletion in the brain. "Unofficially", lots of kids take 5-htp before dropping e, and after, to help recovery.

I was surprised to hear that

1) the serotonin mechanism in the brain is very poorly understood by modern medicine

2) 5-htp is being researched to treat depression

3) maybe mdma and 5-htp tamper with the serotonin mechanism, but so do modern anti-depressants like SSRIs.

Now will someone outline the effects of alcohol consumption?

Brain damage

aggression

memory loss and repeated postings on Thai Visa...about the same thing?

Plus a lot more.

[midas]

Now will someone outline the effects of alcohol consumption?

Brain damage

aggressionmemory loss and repeated postings on Thai Visa...about the same thing?

You've hit on the thing annoys me the most about discussion about drugs:

Why is that people only consider the bad side of drugs? Drugs do have a bad side, no argument there. But they also have good sides. It's like trying to decide if people should drive by only talking about car accidents, but never mentioning any of the benefits of driving.

Someone brought up a poor girl who became addicted against her will, her life ending in quite a sad way. I certainly feel sorry for this girl, and certainly this should have never happened -- but -- would you condemn all driving because of that idiot who plowed into passers-by in his mercedez?

Re: alcohol: You raise a good point. What "drugs" are legal and illegal is not just a simple matter of which are not dangerous vs. dangerous. Looking at the history of how various drug laws are passed over the past few centuries -- tons of it is politics. Canada's first drug law (against opium) was largely motivated by racism against the Chinese immigrants who came over to build our railroads. Similarly with the U.S. it's first laws against marijuana were directed at african-americans.

I wouldn't do speed, personally, but to those saying "it's illegal, that's why it's bad!" -- I beg to differ. Amphetamines were available as diet pills until quite recently, and are now available as Ritalin for 10-year old Johnny who can't concentrate in school -- that's it, speed for kids.

Your argument is flawed ! Excluding the alcoholic beverages

that are concocted up in the backwaters of Russian Siberia, most of the time

people know the general tolerances of what people are drinking in terms of alcohol.

But when we get to some of these synthetic drugs the average teenager who buys

these pills wouldn't have a clue as to what is actually in them- it's

complete Russian roulette which has too often resulted in fatalities

[Neeranam]

I am not a neurologist, but i think my amateurish assessment was not that wrong:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/229/4717/986

Hallucinogenic amphetamine selectively destroys brain serotonin nerve terminals

G Ricaurte, G Bryan, L Strauss, L Seiden, and C Schuster

(+/-)-3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA), an amphetamine analog with hallucinogenic activity, produced selective long-lasting reductions in the level of serotonin, the number of serotonin uptake sites, and the concentration of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid in rat brain. Morphological studies suggested that these neurochemical deficits were due to serotonin nerve terminal degeneration. These results show that MDA has toxic activity for serotonin neurons in rats and raise the question of whether exposure to MDA and related hallucinogenic amphetamines can produce serotonin neurotoxicity in the human brain.

I once had a conversation with a psychiatrist about MDMA and 5-htp (a supplement that claims to be a precursor to serotonin), relating to serotonin depletion in the brain. "Unofficially", lots of kids take 5-htp before dropping e, and after, to help recovery.

I was surprised to hear that

1) the serotonin mechanism in the brain is very poorly understood by modern medicine

2) 5-htp is being researched to treat depression

3) maybe mdma and 5-htp tamper with the serotonin mechanism, but so do modern anti-depressants like SSRIs.

Now will someone outline the effects of alcohol consumption?

Brain damage

aggression

memory loss and repeated postings on Thai Visa...about the same thing?

Plus a lot more.

Plus a lot more.

[canadiangirl]

Your argument is flawed ! Excluding the alcoholic beverages

that are concocted up in the backwaters of Russian Siberia, most of the time

people know the general tolerances of what people are drinking in terms of alcohol.

But when we get to some of these synthetic drugs the average teenager who buys

these pills wouldn't have a clue as to what is actually in them- it's

complete Russian roulette which has too often resulted in fatalities

There are arguments to be made against legalization, but certainly one of them isn't that it would cause the purity, reliability of drugs to go down.

The supply is unreliable because of illegality.

In countries with harm reduction approaches to drugs, you can get pills tested, no questions asked, at public events where drug taking is common (raves, concerts, etc), and get some idea of exactly what they contain.

Many people who aren't teenagers, homeless, hopeless drug-cases take drugs, btw.

[Prakanong]

"It also hampers legitimate research by scientific researchers, as in the case you mention with pain and marijuana. "

How would this be so - a well designed clinical trial can got before a IRB/IEC board and get approval. I will have to look it up but thought the cannabis trials did not show any improvement overdrugs currently avaialble - cynic that i am I reckon its people wanting a excuse to smoke it sop trying legality by the back door

I am on some great opiate painkillers at the moment though - sitting here giggling and really thought I had lost a day - I am glad i am only taking half the prescribed dose for Costochondritis.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Prakanong

[ColPyat]

Your argument is flawed ! Excluding the alcoholic beverages

that are concocted up in the backwaters of Russian Siberia, most of the time

people know the general tolerances of what people are drinking in terms of alcohol.

But when we get to some of these synthetic drugs the average teenager who buys

these pills wouldn't have a clue as to what is actually in them- it's

complete Russian roulette which has too often resulted in fatalities

Because of the illegality drugs are cut down with rubbish, made in unprofessional labs, and nobody really knows what is in there. This is not a new problem. Already 30 or 40 years ago there were many deaths through overdoses when suddenly very clean Heroin hit the markets, and users/addicts used to the crap that usually was on the market used far too large doses.

[ColPyat]

"It also hampers legitimate research by scientific researchers, as in the case you mention with pain and marijuana. "

How would this be so - a well designed clinical trial can got before a IRB/IEC board and get approval. I will have to look it up but thought the cannabis trials did not show any improvement overdrugs currently avaialble - cynic that i am I reckon its people wanting a excuse to smoke it sop trying legality by the back door

I am on some great opiate painkillers at the moment though - sitting here giggling and really thought I had lost a day - I am glad i am only taking half the prescribed dose for Costochondritis.

Nevertheless - for some conditions even in the US (some states) cannabis is prescribed to patients. It would be nice if Opium would be able to be researched properly. For some conditions opium in its pure form would be healthier than the often far more potent and addictive derivates.

Unfortunately the illegal drug issue is so politicized that it will take a long time before we can reach some sort of normality dealing with a debate that is mostly argued with hyperbole.

[meadish_sweetball]

I once had a conversation with a psychiatrist about MDMA and 5-htp (a supplement that claims to be a precursor to serotonin), relating to serotonin depletion in the brain. "Unofficially", lots of kids take 5-htp before dropping e, and after, to help recovery.

I was surprised to hear that

1) the serotonin mechanism in the brain is very poorly understood by modern medicine

2) 5-htp is being researched to treat depression

3) maybe mdma and 5-htp tamper with the serotonin mechanism, but so do modern anti-depressants like SSRIs.

None of these three statements are incorrect, but either you are deliberately reporting only the facts you liked from his explanation, or the doctor you talked to was biased for not explaining the whole picture more carefully.

The obvious difference between mdma and 5-htp on the one hand, and pharmaceutical produced SSRIs used to treat depression on the other, is that the pharma SSRIs already have undergone expensive controlled clinical testing and been on the open market for some time now, which means there is a solid record of side effects for them. I.e. they have been declared safe enough and effective enough by several people independent of each other, and used with the desired effect in enough people.

It is not a fool proof system, but it is a lot safer than taking a drug that was not specifically produced to achieve an antidepressant effect in people with clinical depression. The arguments you have for legalizing drugs indirectly acknowledge this point in that you say they will be safer with some kind of control - the exact thing that is being carried out with marketed substances.

It's no doubt a possibility that 5-htp research will turn up useful finds, for one, in learning more about neural chemistry, and also result in new compounds being developed to treat depression and other chemical imbalances. It is extremely unlikely that they will be used without any alterations though.

My point then, is that it would be unwise to take the above facts as some kind of 'scientific/medical approval' of using recreational drugs to combat depression, which your post seemed to suggest.

[wilko]

Now will someone outline the effects of alcohol consumption?

Brain damage

aggressionmemory loss and repeated postings on Thai Visa...about the same thing?

You've hit on the thing annoys me the most about discussion about drugs:

Why is that people only consider the bad side of drugs? Drugs do have a bad side, no argument there. But they also have good sides. It's like trying to decide if people should drive by only talking about car accidents, but never mentioning any of the benefits of driving.

Someone brought up a poor girl who became addicted against her will, her life ending in quite a sad way. I certainly feel sorry for this girl, and certainly this should have never happened -- but -- would you condemn all driving because of that idiot who plowed into passers-by in his mercedez?

Re: alcohol: You raise a good point. What "drugs" are legal and illegal is not just a simple matter of which are not dangerous vs. dangerous. Looking at the history of how various drug laws are passed over the past few centuries -- tons of it is politics. Canada's first drug law (against opium) was largely motivated by racism against the Chinese immigrants who came over to build our railroads. Similarly with the U.S. it's first laws against marijuana were directed at african-americans.

I wouldn't do speed, personally, but to those saying "it's illegal, that's why it's bad!" -- I beg to differ. Amphetamines were available as diet pills until quite recently, and are now available as Ritalin for 10-year old Johnny who can't concentrate in school -- that's it, speed for kids.

Your argument is flawed ! Excluding the alcoholic beverages

that are concocted up in the backwaters of Russian Siberia, most of the time

people know the general tolerances of what people are drinking in terms of alcohol.

But when we get to some of these synthetic drugs the average teenager who buys

these pills wouldn't have a clue as to what is actually in them- it's

complete Russian roulette which has too often resulted in fatalities

QED!

So the obvious thing to do is LEGALISE them then we can control what is in them and make them quality assured.

Organised crime would no longer find it profitable.....etc ...etc ...etc....

[wilko]

"Re: alcohol: You raise a good point. What "drugs" are legal and illegal is not just a simple matter of which are not dangerous vs. dangerous. Looking at the history of how various drug laws are passed over the past few centuries -- tons of it is politics. Canada's first drug law (against opium) was largely motivated by racism against the Chinese immigrants who came over to build our railroads. Similarly with the U.S. it's first laws against marijuana were directed at african-americans."

UK introduced opium to China - by FORCE!

The beer lobby in UK is so powerful it's effects have changed the course of British policies at home and abroad - especially in relation to "drug" laws....

Why "the Allies" don't buy up the entire poppy crop of Afghanistan is beyond me - the benefits are so obvious even a Thai Visa contributor can understand them.......

[sonnyJ]

Which is worse? The law or the drug??

When you have seen the dead body of a 15 year old girl, being forced to overdose by shots repeatedly fired into the pillow on both sides of her head, because she did not make enough money as a prostitute to pay for the addiction that she was lured into in the first place in the school yard as a normal healthy but naive young girl. you would know the difference, and she is just one of hundreds of dead addicts I have seen over a 20 year work period.

Not all people in society is mature or clever enough to make an informed choice whether to use drugs or not, drugs are highly addictive, they all without exception give brain damage, diminish your capability to learn and develop your intellect ( alcohol included ). So without doubt it can be concluded that drugs are bad.

Laws govern human behaviour, so we all can live together and socialise in a reasonable and safe way without harming each other, this means that many even actually live happy lives.

Kind regards.

Your experiences sound awful. Have you ever given a thought about that what if''''''' drugs were legally obtainable under a controlled system adding the benefits of scientific research, truthful education, help, rehabilitation and guarantee of pure substance. Then most of this what you have seen would probably not have happened. Your perspective of things reminds me of one of a police officer. Am I right?

Ice I have not had the pleasure to experiment with, yet. Have you?I guess there might be not much difference on moderation, as a recreational dose, but on my understanding ice works similar to crack with very short experienced high period when smoked. I think the other poster referred moderation as, don't do it every day. And you should know why.

[JimsKnight]

Anyone know the latest news on this drug dealer? Is he getting charged? Is he getting released with a slap on the hand and a big fat bribe to the chief or what?

[sonnyJ]

Taksin's followers shot and killed between 2 and 4 thousand "drug dealers" - how has that affected the drug scene in Thailand?

Prices went up. There was more money to be made. Do I have to continue...

[sonnyJ]

Now will someone outline the effects of alcohol consumption?

Brain damage

aggression

memory loss and repeated postings on Thai Visa...about the same thing?

You've hit on the thing annoys me the most about discussion about drugs:

Why is that people only consider the bad side of drugs? Drugs do have a bad side, no argument there. But they also have good sides. It's like trying to decide if people should drive by only talking about car accidents, but never mentioning any of the benefits of driving.

Someone brought up a poor girl who became addicted against her will, her life ending in quite a sad way. I certainly feel sorry for this girl, and certainly this should have never happened -- but -- would you condemn all driving because of that idiot who plowed into passers-by in his mercedez?

Re: alcohol: You raise a good point. What "drugs" are legal and illegal is not just a simple matter of which are not dangerous vs. dangerous. Looking at the history of how various drug laws are passed over the past few centuries -- tons of it is politics. Canada's first drug law (against opium) was largely motivated by racism against the Chinese immigrants who came over to build our railroads. Similarly with the U.S. it's first laws against marijuana were directed at african-americans.

I wouldn't do speed, personally, but to those saying "it's illegal, that's why it's bad!" -- I beg to differ. Amphetamines were available as diet pills until quite recently, and are now available as Ritalin for 10-year old Johnny who can't concentrate in school -- that's it, speed for kids.

You seem to have studied the history and had your experiments.

We mustn't forget that side-effects of any drug are highly personal.

For example the Amphetamines family for the knowledge's sake. Well it never got me inspired enough to be even close to over do it. Amphetamine, Metamphetamine, also cocaine and -derivates felt like waste of money to me at the time. I must address that the ways of consumption of these substances will give very different effects, pill-powder vs. smoking-IV. I did see though most of the frequent users to fall in the trap, guess they liked it.

With MDA or MDMA (methylenedioxymetamphetamine) AKA ecstasy, that can be a very pleasant experience, but I wouldn't ever even consider taking it daily. Well some did.. Anyway I categorize the effects of E in a whole different group from speed etc..

The so called Gate Effect, I think it's called, sorry I'm not native in english, holds much truth to it for the one and only reason. Drugs are illegal, you get your pot, acid and smack from the same guys. They are in the business right. So you will probably end up to prefer heroine as your favourite because it's there and available, great and very addictive. Many opiates are legal within a more or less controlled environment in Europe these days. But not for recreation, there is very little research done. The medical world, and the governments should recognize that a person and psyche has a freedom to choose the recreational use over more than the 2 legalized toxic substances. We can see that the prohibition policy doesn't work at all.

:edit

I'm drunk by the way.

Edited September 4, 2007 by sonnyJ

[Clipped]

many Thais and foreigners who were arrested for drug possession said that they bought the drugs from an English agent, called Mr. Mike, who stays at the "L.V. Mansion".

Note to self: Do not use your real name when dealing drugs. Also do not tell where you are staying or deal out of the room.

Yes ,makes you wonder dosent it, and i doubt he is addicted,more like a line to try for compassion,.if he is ill bet hes on a real cold turkey now, custody in los isnt known for its luxuries,. shame but very stupid,.

Amphetamine addiction does not cause very strong physical withdrawal symptoms. Mostly a bit of stomach ache, and the need for lots of sleep.

What causes hel_l is the lack of seratonin, the chemical agent the brain produces to make one happy. Under prolonged amphetamine use the brain diminishes or looses the capacity to produce that chemical. It takes a while until this ability comes back (with some of the heaviest addicts it doesn't).

One of the best methods to go on withdrawal is to use Ganja to compensate until the brain can start producing those chemicals again.

the need for sleep on ICE??? hah, aint no one is going to be sleeping on ICE ...what drives people crazy when on meth and crystal is the lack of sleep and the inability to rationalize reality from thought.

I use to be one of those people that believed in legalizing drugs, but now i realize that is not the right thing to do...not everyone has a strong will...

I know people that start gagging just at the anticipation of getting high...have you ever seen what a true addict is willing to do to get a hit?

Have you ever seen someone on their hands and knees searching for a piece of rock?

sorry but these types of drugs should never be legalized...weed is a different story though.

[meemiathai]

Now will someone outline the effects of alcohol consumption?

Brain damage

aggression

memory loss and repeated postings on Thai Visa...about the same thing?

You've hit on the thing annoys me the most about discussion about drugs:

Why is that people only consider the bad side of drugs? Drugs do have a bad side, no argument there. But they also have good sides. It's like trying to decide if people should drive by only talking about car accidents, but never mentioning any of the benefits of driving.

Someone brought up a poor girl who became addicted against her will, her life ending in quite a sad way. I certainly feel sorry for this girl, and certainly this should have never happened -- but -- would you condemn all driving because of that idiot who plowed into passers-by in his mercedez?

Re: alcohol: You raise a good point. What "drugs" are legal and illegal is not just a simple matter of which are not dangerous vs. dangerous. Looking at the history of how various drug laws are passed over the past few centuries -- tons of it is politics. Canada's first drug law (against opium) was largely motivated by racism against the Chinese immigrants who came over to build our railroads. Similarly with the U.S. it's first laws against marijuana were directed at african-americans.

I wouldn't do speed, personally, but to those saying "it's illegal, that's why it's bad!" -- I beg to differ. Amphetamines were available as diet pills until quite recently, and are now available as Ritalin for 10-year old Johnny who can't concentrate in school -- that's it, speed for kids.

You seem to have studied the history and had your experiments.

We mustn't forget that side-effects of any drug are highly personal.

For example the Amphetamines family for the knowledge's sake. Well it never got me inspired enough to be even close to over do it. Amphetamine, Metamphetamine, also cocaine and -derivates felt like waste of money to me at the time. I must address that the ways of consumption of these substances will give very different effects, pill-powder vs. smoking-IV. I did see though most of the frequent users to fall in the trap, guess they liked it.

With MDA or MDMA (methylenedioxymetamphetamine) AKA ecstasy, that can be a very pleasant experience, but I wouldn't ever even consider taking it daily. Well some did.. Anyway I categorize the effects of E in a whole different group from speed etc..

The so called Gate Effect, I think it's called, sorry I'm not native in english, holds much truth to it for the one and only reason. Drugs are illegal, you get your pot, acid and smack from the same guys. They are in the business right. So you will probably end up to prefer heroine as your favourite because it's there and available, great and very addictive. Many opiates are legal within a more or less controlled environment in Europe these days. But not for recreation, there is very little research done. The medical world, and the governments should recognize that a person and psyche has a freedom to choose the recreational use over more than the 2 legalized toxic substances. We can see that the prohibition policy doesn't work at all.

:edit

I'm drunk by the way.

Drunk but good post!

Yes, I will never take cocaine even if they were free for me. It has absolutely no effects on me. And Neither does weed.

That's why I am now taking the legal one that is Guiness!

[meemiathai]

Rifle squad! Put your beers down and hold the rifle and shoot that heresy!

[meemiathai]

For me, it is not even if those drugs are actually harmful to health or not. It is the notion of innocent young people(yes I call them innocent! A lot of them at a very young age don't even know exactly what they are doing. It could be just you and me if we were unlucky enough.) having their lives ruined for just one simple mistake, by those holier than thou people. Do people have a conscience?

It is too cruel!

[commando]

Addicts deserve some sympathy and aid to help them deal with and hopefully cure their addiction.

Don't make me laugh! It is the victims of the addicts and the families of the addicts that deserve sympathy, not the addicts themselves. They got themselves into that mess, no-one pointed a gun at their heads, did they?

Hear! Hear!

I have no sympathy for Michael whatsoever, but he does have family in England and they are devastated by what has happened, they are the ones that are having to suffer at this moment in time not knowing what will happen to him, i just hope none of them get to hear of this site and read some of the postings that have been put on!

Edited September 4, 2007 by commando

[ColPyat]

the need for sleep on ICE??? hah, aint no one is going to be sleeping on ICE ...what drives people crazy when on meth and crystal is the lack of sleep and the inability to rationalize reality from thought.

I use to be one of those people that believed in legalizing drugs, but now i realize that is not the right thing to do...not everyone has a strong will...

I know people that start gagging just at the anticipation of getting high...have you ever seen what a true addict is willing to do to get a hit?

Have you ever seen someone on their hands and knees searching for a piece of rock?

sorry but these types of drugs should never be legalized...weed is a different story though.

First of all, before commenting on my post, do me the favor and read them, please. Need for sleep is part of the withdrawal symptoms, not the high.

I have seen many addicts in all stages - from high to extreme cravings, delusional and hyper aggressive. Yes, we know that addiction is not good. But people will be addicted to substances regardless of legalities. Time to accept it, and give them proper treatment - which is a controlled supply of their drug of choice, and not an equally addictive substitute, but then call it a therapy.

Some addict simply cannot give up, point, that's it. We should accept this, and instead of having them going through hel_l, and a criminal lifestyle they should be treated as what they are - sick people who need treatment. Which, incidently, is simple - it is their drug(s) of choice. You don't want to see addicts prostituting themselves, mugging people, stealing and generally humiliating themselves - give them their drug, and let them live a humane life.

It is also a lot cheaper for society to provide them with their substances and social security than having them stuck in a far more expensive prison system.

By far not all drug users are addicts though. I have been rather open here in this thread, as i am in general about this subject (i got nothing to lose - i am self employed in a field where nobody cares what i do as long as i deliver). I have never been addicted, i have not an addictive personality (only slightly obsessive ), i have never used drugs as a form of escapism. And as i slowly get stuck in a beginning midlife crises - the last thing i want now is getting high, forget about my responsibilities and make a complete fool out of myself.

Maybe later in life i will make the decision to sweeten my old age with regular dosage of ganja (like most old people in my wife's village, or, if available, opium), but who knows. I also won't be the guy who will get arrested in a routine police control because i do not fit the profile, like so many other people you would not expect taking illegal substances.

[meemiathai]

the need for sleep on ICE??? hah, aint no one is going to be sleeping on ICE ...what drives people crazy when on meth and crystal is the lack of sleep and the inability to rationalize reality from thought.

I use to be one of those people that believed in legalizing drugs, but now i realize that is not the right thing to do...not everyone has a strong will...

I know people that start gagging just at the anticipation of getting high...have you ever seen what a true addict is willing to do to get a hit?

Have you ever seen someone on their hands and knees searching for a piece of rock?

sorry but these types of drugs should never be legalized...weed is a different story though.

First of all, before commenting on my post, do me the favor and read them, please. Need for sleep is part of the withdrawal symptoms, not the high.

I have seen many addicts in all stages - from high to extreme cravings, delusional and hyper aggressive. Yes, we know that addiction is not good. But people will be addicted to substances regardless of legalities. Time to accept it, and give them proper treatment - which is a controlled supply of their drug of choice, and not an equally addictive substitute, but then call it a therapy.

Some addict simply cannot give up, point, that's it. We should accept this, and instead of having them going through hel_l, and a criminal lifestyle they should be treated as what they are - sick people who need treatment. Which, incidently, is simple - it is their drug(s) of choice. You don't want to see addicts prostituting themselves, mugging people, stealing and generally humiliating themselves - give them their drug, and let them live a humane life.

It is also a lot cheaper for society to provide them with their substances and social security than having them stuck in a far more expensive prison system.

By far not all drug users are addicts though. I have been rather open here in this thread, as i am in general about this subject (i got nothing to lose - i am self employed in a field where nobody cares what i do as long as i deliver). I have never been addicted, i have not an addictive personality (only slightly obsessive ), i have never used drugs as a form of escapism. And as i slowly get stuck in a beginning midlife crises - the last thing i want now is getting high, forget about my responsibilities and make a complete fool out of myself.

Maybe later in life i will make the decision to sweeten my old age with regular dosage of ganja (like most old people in my wife's village, or, if available, opium), but who knows. I also won't be the guy who will get arrested in a routine police control because i do not fit the profile, like so many other people you would not expect taking illegal substances.

You are not addictive? You are a bloody TV addict!

But agree with you mak mak! esapecially the part "You don't want to see addicts prostituting themselves, mugging people, stealing and generally humiliating themselves - give them their drug, and let them live a humane life."

[ColPyat]

You are not addictive? You are a bloody TV addict!

Nops, just obsessive.

Very obsessive.

[sriracha john]

Amphetamines were available as diet pills until quite recently, and are now available as Ritalin for 10-year old Johnny who can't concentrate in school -- that's it, speed for kids.

Sorry for "keeping it real"... but Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is NOT an amphetamine.

It is, however, a mild central nervous system stimulant (much less potent than amphetamines), which is why it does not warrant the "speed for kids" moniker.

It is a therapeutic medication that can have profoundly beneficial effects; it is not a recreational drug.

Is it sometimes misused by people that don't need it? Yes.

[ColPyat]

Amphetamines were available as diet pills until quite recently, and are now available as Ritalin for 10-year old Johnny who can't concentrate in school -- that's it, speed for kids.

Sorry for "keeping it real"... but Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is NOT an amphetamine.

It is, however, a mild central nervous system stimulant (much less potent than amphetamines), which is why it does not warrant the "speed for kids" moniker.

It is a therapeutic medication that can have profoundly beneficial effects; it is not a recreational drug.

Is it sometimes misused by people that don't need it? Yes.

No, it doesn't.

It is used to treat ADD, and is highly controversial. For ADD patients it works actually opposite to normal children - it calms them down instead of stimulating them. And one of the regrettable side effects is that it does prolong this condition, that usually goes by itself after puberty, almost indefinitely.

Ritalin may have profoundly beneficial effects on the parents and teachers of such a child, but it has lasting, and in many areas of life almost debilitating effects on the adult this child one day will turn into. There are much better ways to treat what is nowadays called "ADD" - understanding, tolerance, and teachers that are educated about why some children are a more hyperactive than others.

Ritalin does irreversible damage to the brain at an age when children should not be exposed to any such drug. But yes, it is legal and prescribed by doctors.

Edited September 4, 2007 by ColPyat

[sriracha john]

Amphetamines were available as diet pills until quite recently, and are now available as Ritalin for 10-year old Johnny who can't concentrate in school -- that's it, speed for kids.

Sorry for "keeping it real"... but Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is NOT an amphetamine.

It is, however, a mild central nervous system stimulant (much less potent than amphetamines), which is why it does not warrant the "speed for kids" moniker.

It is a therapeutic medication that can have profoundly beneficial effects; it is not a recreational drug.

Is it sometimes misused by people that don't need it? Yes.

No, it doesn't.

It is used to treat ADD, and is highly controversial. For ADD patients it works actually opposite to normal children - it calms them down instead of stimulating them. And one of the regrettable side effects is that it does prolong this condition, that usually goes by itself after puberty, almost indefinitely.

Ritalin may have profoundly beneficial effects on the parents and teachers of such a child, but it has lasting, and in many areas of life almost debilitating effects on the adult this child one day will turn into. There are much better ways to treat what is nowadays called "ADD" - understanding, tolerance, and teachers that are educated about why some children are a more hyperactive than others.

Ritalin does irreversible damage to the brain at an age when children should not be exposed to any such drug. But yes, it is legal and prescribed by doctors.

You are wrong...

Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the largest study ever conducted on ADHD... (btw, ADD is no longer in vogue):

The Treatment of ADHD

Every family wants to determine what treatment will be most effective for their child. This question needs to be answered by each family in consultation with their health care professional. To help families make this important decision, the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) has funded many studies of treatments for ADHD and has conducted the most intensive study ever undertaken for evaluating the treatment of this disorder. This study is known as the Multimodal Treatment Study of Children with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (MTA). The NIMH is now conducting a clinical trial for younger children ages 3 to 5.5 years (Treatment of ADHD in Preschool-Age Children).

The Multimodal Treatment Study of Children with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.

The MTA study included 579 (95-98 at each of 6 treatment sites) elementary school boys and girls with ADHD, who were randomly assigned to one of four treatment programs: (1) medication management alone; (2) behavioral treatment alone; (3) a combination of both; or (4) routine community care. In each of the study sites, three groups were treated for the first 14 months in a specified protocol and the fourth group was referred for community treatment of the parents' choosing. All of the children were reassessed regularly throughout the study period. An essential part of the program was the cooperation of the schools, including principals and teachers. Both teachers and parents rated the children on hyperactivity, impulsivity, and inattention, and symptoms of anxiety and depression, as well as social skills.

The children in two groups (medication management alone and the combination treatment) were seen monthly for one-half hour at each medication visit. During the treatment visits, the prescribing physician spoke with the parent, met with the child, and sought to determine any concerns that the family might have regarding the medication or the child's ADHD-related difficulties. The physicians, in addition, sought input from the teachers on a monthly basis. The physicians in the medication-only group did not provide behavioral therapy but did advise the parents when necessary concerning any problems the child might have.

In the behavior treatment-only group, families met up to 35 times with a behavior therapist, mostly in group sessions. These therapists also made repeated visits to schools to consult with children's teachers and to supervise a special aide assigned to each child in the group. In addition, children attended a special 8-week summer treatment program where they worked on academic, social, and sports skills, and where intensive behavioral therapy was delivered to assist children in improving their behavior.

Children in the combined therapy group received both treatments, that is, all the same assistance that the medication-only received, as well as all of the behavior therapy treatments.

In routine community care, the children saw the community-treatment doctor of their parents' choice one to two times per year for short periods of time. Also, the community-treatment doctor did not have any interaction with the teachers.

The results of the study indicated that long-term combination treatments and the medication-management alone were superior to intensive behavioral treatment and routine community treatment. And in some areas—anxiety, academic performance, oppositionality, parent-child relations, and social skills—the combined treatment was usually superior. Another advantage of combined treatment was that children could be successfully treated with lower doses of medicine, compared with the medication-only group.