Damage Control - Greedy Thai Landlord

[nwthailand]

I know that almost all Thai landlords are greedy and rarely give back a reasonable damage deposit to the tenant.

I'm living in a building where 3 families have left this year and are still in dispute with the landlord to get back a reasonable amount of the deposit back.

It's the same pattern: he would get the manager to verbally agree on the damage to be deducted from the deposit as the tenant exits but would later unilaterally increase that damage deposit without producing receipts, or not returning the deposit within the 45 day timeline. Of course, any request to meet with the landlord never materialises.

I am leaving at the end of this year and am thinking of what to do to control the damage ahead of time. (ie videoing the "exit" conversation, holding back last month rent).

One of the ex-tenant is looking to get the media (eg The Nation) involved. He says perhaps ruining the landlord's name is the best revenge. Would the media get involved? I suppose this is quite a common problem - Thai landlords ripping off the farangs.

Anyone has any good stories/ideas of how to get full and reasonable amount of deposit back in Bangkok?

Edited September 3, 2007 by nwthailand

[midas]

I know that almost all Thai landlords are greedy and rarely give back a reasonable damage deposit to the tenant.

I'm living in a building where 3 families have left this year and are still in dispute with the landlord to get back a reasonable amount of the deposit back.

It's the same pattern: he would get the manager to verbally agree on the damage to be deducted from the deposit as the tenant exits but would later unilaterally increase that damage deposit without producing receipts, or not returning the deposit within the 45 day timeline. Of course, any request to meet with the landlord never materialises.

I am leaving at the end of this year and am thinking of what to do to control the damage ahead of time. (ie videoing the "exit" conversation, holding back last month rent).

One of the ex-tenant is looking to get the media (eg The Nation) involved. He says perhaps ruining the landlord's name is the best revenge. Would the media get involved? I suppose this is quite a common problem - Thai landlords ripping off the farangs.

Anyone has any good stories/ideas of how to get full and reasonable amount of deposit back in Bangkok?

People like this are obnoxious

2 months before the end of the lease, I would write the landlord a letter stating your concerns

based on the experience of previous tenants and because of that you wish to have the deposit

applied against the rent due - so for the last 2 or 3 months ( whatever is applicable in your case )

the Landlord can just deduct the outstanding rent from the deposit

[ProThaiExpat]

I withheld my last month's rent as the lease provided that the security deposit was security for damage and failure to pay rent, which didn't exist. I ended up pay 15k unpaid utilities, cleaning fees etc. Exorbitant ripoff but I felt better being in the position of owing them money than the other way around.

Anything you can do to end up owing them money to be paid on the last day of your tenancy is the ideal position to be in.

[Heng]

Just checking to see if this thread involved me in anyway. Doesn't sound like it as I usually return rental deposits 30 days after the last month's rent is paid. In the rare cases that I don't, there's usually enough clear property damage that the former tenant doesn't even dispute that they shouldn't be getting their deposit back.

You might try having the landlord come over for a hotel checkout type property check.

Good luck though!

[dee123]

Golden rule in Thailand.....NEVER PUT MONEY IN,WHICH YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO LOSE!.....

[dee123]

The same rule applies when playing cards with a scouser!

[Moonfruit]

We have lived in 6 places over the years, all rented, and have never lost ANY % of a deposit. Maybe we are lucky.

More importantly i think that it is up to you to repair any damage that you may have caused.

Heres an example. While typing this post i just nipped to the toilet. I opened the door and it smashed into the wall. It didnt break the tile but it could, easily. Ill buy a doorstop tomorrow so it doesnt happen.

I have heard this a million times from many people that Thai landlords are unscrupulous. As a landlord myself, the way i look at the agreement, and the tenant is the way they treat the property. If an effort is made to treat it with respect that goes a long way, during the tenancy when they have problems, and then again when the lease is up and its deposit refund time. If you want to find faults to repair, its very easy. With this in mind, its also much easier to look around the property that you have BEEN renting and get any defects repaired yourself before the landlord sees them. That way, you pay the real repair price, not the repair price that the property owner thinks it will cost!

Obviously, it makes sense to try to negotiate a few months in advace so that you can use the deposit for the final two months rent, but good luck with that! As a landlord myself, i would accept it.What if a tenant leaves an international telephone bill for 30,000THB?

[Lucifer]

You could have the deposit given to a third party. One that both of you can trust to be fair.

This should be done well before you hand in your notice.

[Heng]

As a landlord myself, i would accept it.What if a tenant leaves an international telephone bill for 30,000THB?

You can have all CAT long distance calling capability limited to any amount you want with the minimum being 2,000 Baht. It's a good idea to ask tenants beforehand what they would like you to cap it at. Also, for regular phone use (to protect yourself from people running boiler rooms, folks addicted to 900 lines, etc.) you should have the phone contract transferred from your name to the tenants name. You'll need TOT/True forms 211 and 209 (or transfer of service + power of attorney). You don't need the latter if you arrange to sign your rental contract at a True or TOT office and they can do the transfer with you in person, saves you some time that way.

The landlord really holds most of the cards, you just need to be thorough with the details and the rental contract.

[JetsetBkk]

What if a tenant leaves an international telephone bill for 30,000THB?

Ah! So it was YOU! My landlord asked for 5,000 baht deposit against the phone bill because the last unscrupulous tenant left a bill of 25,000 baht!

Joking aside (but the phone deposit storey is true) my landlords have been quite fair. One in Bkk wanted nothing - just deducted the utility bills (which he sent me) and deposited what was left of the deposit in my bank account. Another wanted bits of money for just about every bit of damage I caused, but they were all fair - like 500 baht because I changed the bulbs in some outside lamps to incandescent ones instead of low power ones, and the fitting sort of slowly imploded as it melted.

But really, you should try to assess what sort of landlord he/she is, as well as the accommodation and surrounding area. It's always best to sit outside a prospective place for a few nights just to see how the neighbours are.

[backflip]

"I know that almost all Thai landlords are greedy and rarely give back a reasonable damage deposit to the tenant...I suppose this is quite a common problem - Thai landlords ripping off the farangs. "

It seems as though you've already decided that you want a confrontation with the landlord, based on second-and-third-hand knowledge. It must be tough being you.

[midas]

"I know that almost all Thai landlords are greedy and rarely give back a reasonable damage deposit to the tenant...I suppose this is quite a common problem - Thai landlords ripping off the farangs. "

It seems as though you've already decided that you want a confrontation with the landlord, based on second-and-third-hand knowledge. It must be tough being you.

Hang on a minute - go back and read the oringinal post !!

" I'm living in a building where 3 families have left this year and are still in dispute with the landlord to get back a reasonable amount of the deposit back "

hardly grounds for being confident :

[quiksilva]

I was faced with a similar situation with a landlord I didnt know and by using delicate persistent negotiations was able to recover my depsout back in full, less agreed costs.

If things get really difficult and you are all able to prove that this landlord has done this repeatedly to many tenants in your building, there is a very useful telephone number in the pinned threads above, which I only learned about here at Thai Visa.

I had my wife call them and it turns out they are, for want of a better word, a consumer watchdog type organisation who will take up these battles with landlords and pursue them to help recover security deposits.

Trying will not cost anything so give it a shot and let us know how you get on.

Good luck with it!

[backflip]

"Hang on a minute - go back and read the oringinal post !!

" I'm living in a building where 3 families have left this year and are still in dispute with the landlord to get back a reasonable amount of the deposit back "

As you have reiterated, the OP's post is based on second-hand information. Did he inspect the neighbors' premises before they moved in? No. Did he inspect them after they moved out? No. Did he report how much of the money was withheld: 5%, 10%, all of it? No. Understanding the OP's confrontational attitude, he's going to approach the landlord with, "Why the <deleted>*k didn't the other 3 families get all of their deposits back?" He's going to get into a situation that he's going to lose.

[midas]

"Hang on a minute - go back and read the oringinal post !!

" I'm living in a building where 3 families have left this year and are still in dispute with the landlord to get back a reasonable amount of the deposit back "

As you have reiterated, the OP's post is based on second-hand information. Did he inspect the neighbors' premises before they moved in? No. Did he inspect them after they moved out? No. Did he report how much of the money was withheld: 5%, 10%, all of it? No. Understanding the OP's confrontational attitude, he's going to approach the landlord with, "Why the <deleted>*k didn't the other 3 families get all of their deposits back?" He's going to get into a situation that he's going to lose.

Well I didnt interpret it that way I think the OP is just planning his / her strategy

- there is no harm in that. I mean if he did pay all the rent up until the date of departure

then his bargaining position is very much reduced so why not plan ahead

[nwthailand]

backflip - i used "damage control". the fact that you insist on "confrontation" clearly has everyone scratching their heads.

on what basis do you assume i am working on second hand info? i happen to be in the flat of one of the families and i had seen what the landlord had done and they are GROSSLY overcharged. i've also seen the other unit right after it was vacated.

and i was going to keep my thoughts to myself after your first response to give you some courtesy (which you would not give to others).

possibly tougher being you - wrongful assumptions, no material contribution.

for the rest, thankyou. i've passed 1166 to one of the families. the other 2 have left thailand (makes things difficult) but it is worth trying.

for your info, there is a consumer protection board www.ocpb.go.th (in thai) - it's another avenue.

it's a shameless practice and should be deterred. strategising ahead is the only way to manage the situation.

Edited September 5, 2007 by nwthailand

[jingjingna]

Videotape/record the 'handover' of keys. This is what I did or rather didn't do but she soon changed her tune once she thought she was being taped!

[yeti]

In case it goes wrong you can call the consumer protection board, i don't have the number but i'm sure u can find it somewhere on the forums.

[endure]

It's not a practice confined to Thailand. It's only in April this year that laws were passed in the UK setting up an Tenancy Deposit Scheme to solve the same problem.

[midas]

it's a shameless practice and should be deterred. strategising ahead is the only way to manage the situation.

I completely agree. In Australia we have a Rental Bond Board administered by

state governments. Your bond or deposit is paid to them and you get it back

at the and if there is no damage but with no interest -the interest component

is what effectively pays the running costs of the department but at least

you know you are dealing with an independent body.

I had a landlord in Bangkok who painted the wooden floors with a cheap

coating of varnish which came off very easily and at the end tried to

charge me for " damage " to the floor. Fortunately the lease had a provision

that " fair wear and tear " was an exception and I insisted on receiving the full amount

back which I got.

but there is no doubt the existing system is virtually an invitation for unscrupulous

landlords and I think there are more than a few out there. it would be easy

for the authorities to setup an independent stakeholding system if they really wanted to