Imersion Method Of Learning

[devalover]

I dropped by the Berlitz office in Bangkok and their method is kind of new to me- no English spoken in the class! They use pictures, body language, anything but English to help you learn.

It makes a hel_l of a lot of sense to me actually.

It is also expensive... so I am going to hunt around a little and was curious if anyone else knew of other immersion style schools in Bkk.

If anyone is interested the berlitz place is in "Times Square Building" near Asok Bts- and they offer a free lesson to try it out.

peace,

DL

[meadish_sweetball]

Well, AUA Bangkok uses immersion, for one.

Personally I learn best when I can ask questions. And it takes a long time for most people to become proficient enough in Thai to be able to ask questions about language and pronunciation, apart from obvious ones such as 'what does x mean', 'what is the difference between x and y'.

However, for those who find traditional learning did not work well for them, it might be a good idea with immersion. It certainly is beneficial as ONE method of language learning among others. But some aspects are simply easier to absorb when explained theoretically in a language you can understand.

[devalover]

Thannks Meadish- well said.

Yeah- so far as I can tell there is no "best" way to learn a language.... I guess the question is- what's the best fpr me?

And a good question that is!

I already know maybe 600 or so words of spoken Thai- I can carry on lotsa small conversaitions..... so I think immersion might be a good next step for me.... we'll see.

Thanks for the AUA tip.

DL

[wasabi]

I personally would probably not do well in an immersion course. I think there is merit to not letting someone use the crutch of their native language but I find many things will just breeze over my head and never be remembered if I can't stop and talk about it in my own language. I wonder how effective all those farangs teaching English without any Thai knowledge are.

Edited September 4, 2007 by wasabi

[aanon]

I personally would probably not do well in an immersion course. I think there is merit to not letting someone use the crutch of their native language but I find many things will just breeze over my head and never be remembered if I can't stop and talk about it in my own language. I wonder how effective all those farangs teaching English without any Thai knowledge are.

my vote would be for as much immersion as possible. it's tiring, and can be frustrating, but it's also a very liberating thing to learn to get by without the crutch of using one's native language. any progress you make is progress you can apply in the real world. to my mind, if you can always ask questions in your native language, there's a risk of getting bogged down in theory and detail, just as thai students get bogged down in the 12 tenses etc. before they've even really tried anything in spoken english.

jump in! make peace with the idea that you are going to be as helpless as a toddler for a while in a new language.

all the best.

ps. i agree wasabi, a lot of stuff will go over one's head, but the stuff that keeps coming up (the really useful stuff) will stick eventually.

Edited September 4, 2007 by aanon

[withnail]

That's pretty much the same way that all of the Thai courses are run in BKK, apart from often the first module. It's not really a unique selling point.

[Briggsy]

I dropped by the Berlitz office in Bangkok and their method is kind of new to me- no English spoken in the class! They use pictures, body language, anything but English to help you learn.

It makes a hel_l of a lot of sense to me actually.

It is also expensive... so I am going to hunt around a little and was curious if anyone else knew of other immersion style schools in Bkk.

If anyone is interested the berlitz place is in "Times Square Building" near Asok Bts- and they offer a free lesson to try it out.

peace,

DL

Take my advice. Forget Berlitz. I know quite a few people that work there and half of them go to work still drunk from the night before.

Try the Food Court Immersion Method. It'll save you thousands of ฿ or alternatively, the Pub Immersion Method, the Taxi Immersion Method, the Market Immersion Method or even better the Dictionary on Legs. That last one might be as pricey as Bershitz though, but probably not.

Best of luck.

[sutnyod]

Ahhh, it's called immersion now. Well, that's the way I learned some of my languages. At that time this was called : having nobody speaking English (or anything else except their mother tongue) around. Took me two months to reach the stage Meadish mentions - to be able to ask. Had headaches and was confused all of the time, especially as I had not heard of tonal languages. I could spend hours fighting with people that I had said Ma and it means horse and would not get it why they insisted I said 'come' and not 'horse'. But for me it was a hel_l of a good way of learning. And cheap, too

A word of caution: if your intent is to be able to translate later on, DO NOT use this method. You will find you will have no inter-connections in your brains from one language to the other. You will have to build those in another painful period of self-training.

[Valjean]

When I first came to Bangkok two + years ago I did Berlitz (fantastic instructor who did not go out drinking the night before). I took it for one year - at times I was going 2x a week for 3 hours each. My head would hurt so hard. For me it's a good way to learn and the past year when I haven't done this I've gone backwards. I would just sit down and the teacher would say (in Thai). Talk - we would talk about everything and she would introduce new words and I'd start using them. She knows everything about me in the process of finding things to talk about – family, work, ex’s, gf, you name it. Not too much correction on pronunciation which I think is good as I didn’t get frustrated or afraid to just talk. Expensive but of three schools and methods I’ve tried + various PC based it’s the best.

I wish I had a few months to just drop into a 100% Thai environment. I think it could push me over the edge in understanding. Sometimes it’s almost there. Interesting what sutnyod says about translating. I work with almost all Thais and most of our company meetings are all in Thai – I understand much of this (I have lots of context) but it’s so hard to translate to someone else. It seems you just have to let the Thai flow into your brain and direct to understanding.

[Sateev]

Well, AUA Bangkok uses immersion, for one.

Personally I learn best when I can ask questions. And it takes a long time for most people to become proficient enough in Thai to be able to ask questions about language and pronunciation, apart from obvious ones such as 'what does x mean', 'what is the difference between x and y'.

However, for those who find traditional learning did not work well for them, it might be a good idea with immersion. It certainly is beneficial as ONE method of language learning among others. But some aspects are simply easier to absorb when explained theoretically in a language you can understand.

While AUA is definitely language immersion, the method taught there is called Automatic Language Growth (ALG), and differs in that they want you to refrain from speaking Thai for the first thousand hours of instruction. The idea is that listening alone is the best way to learn the sounds of the language, i.e., the tones, and comprehension builds from the repetition and visual aids they use. People who complete the program seem to speak Thai very well, and sound natural.

Of course, the downsides are many, chiefly, the time requirement. At 200 hours per module, it takes a LONG time to move forward, and being told that it is counterproductive to actually speak Thai is a big put off for many who want to go out and try their skills. At slightly over 100 baht/hour (not confirmed recently), it is not expensive on an hourly basis, but if you complete the program, you will have spent some money. Speaking begins in the fifth or sixth module (I never got that far), and that is when you begin to learn to read and write.

In practical terms, they are NOT strict about these methods, and people answer in Thai quite often, so there is some deviation from the system as designed by J. Marvin Brown. Also, due to the arduous and time-consuming path to the higher levels, there are not enough students to have separate AT (level) 6-10 classes, and those students who complete level 5 generally are in a combined class, rather than following the distinct levels that are part of the program design.

On the upside, there is no homework, and you can attend as frequently, or infrequently, as your schedule (and pocketbook) allows.

I know a couple of the teachers there, and they are quite dedicated, and well-paid by Thai standards. Many of the same teachers have been there for eight years or more, and the ones I have encountered were quite conscientious, and happy to have foreigners that want to know about Thailand. Aside from farangs, there are a LOT of Japanese students learning Thai at AUA as well.

One really great feature is the wide range of activities put on by the staff. Field trips are frequent, as well as parties at holiday time, etc. There is a great spirit of community there.

In short, if you have the time, and would like a more involved and personal approach, AUA is great. If you needs are more of the 'quick phrasebook' variety, you probably will NOT get much out of AUA.

Sateev

Edited September 6, 2007 by Sateev

[Sateev]

Ahhh, it's called immersion now. ...

A word of caution: if your intent is to be able to translate later on, DO NOT use this method. You will find you will have no inter-connections in your brains from one language to the other. You will have to build those in another painful period of self-training.

I would argue that not being able to translate is a good thing, if your goal is to learn to speak Thai well. Professional translation is largely cultural, and what often passes for translation is an attempt at literal translation, which is all but impossible in Thai.

Being able to convey what was said in one language to a listener of another language requires comprehension, a large component of which is culture. Simple word translation will fail.

You need to fluent in both languages, and fluency NEVER comes from translation.

Sateev

[meadish_sweetball]

Excellent post about AUA Sateev, it seems like a truthful account too.

I have not met any students who have finished the entire AUA course, but 6-7 or so who quit at a rather early stage, because they were disappointed with the teaching methods. These people then went on to schools with more traditional teaching which suited them better.

Translation is based on good comprehension of the source language, but even more so on the ability to express yourself naturally and idiomatically in the target language. That's why most professional translators only translate into their mother tongue.

Fluency does not come from translation, but fluency does not really impair your ability to translate either. Separate skills that can be practiced separately.

[Sateev]

Excellent post Sateev, it seems like a truthful account too.

I have not met any students who have finished the entire AUA course, but 6-7 or so who quit at a rather early stage, because they were disappointed with the teaching methods. These people then went on to schools with more traditional teaching which suited them better.

Thanks, MS. That has been my experience, by and large.

AUA graduates are rare, especially now that there are literally dozens of alternatives. And your comment about there being no single 'best' method for everyone is absolutely true. However, 'back in the day', when it was largely AUA vs. Union Language, the common wisdom was that AUA students sounded better, but Union students had more practical ability in a shorter time.

In the end, I think it boils down to your natural ability for languages, which exists on a continuum.

Sateev

[Tod Daniels]

The illustrious "Immersion Method" for learning the language here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is a double edged sword. For the people who have real jobs, NOT the degree-less starving english teachers; getting to interact with people who speak anything remotely close to 'high register' thai is difficult. Foreigners married to lower class, or uneducated thais will certainly learn to communicate at that social level of the language and it is apparent to every person spoken to whether the thai acknowledges it or not. Do not be duped by the ever smiling sheep-like sock puppets that populate this country and will most likely understand, encourage, and parrot the phrase; พูดไทยเก่งมาก. All too often, in reality, the thai spoken by foreigners is not much more than “street thai”, “two-word thai”, or “bar-gurl thai”. When I hear a foreigner speaking thai I can immediately distinguish whether that person learned from a Prathom-6 drop out, or if they learned in a different social context, be it at a school or at work.

The "Pub/Wife/(in)significant other method of learning can also be fraught with disaster. Many times that person doesn't really want you speaking or understanding thai to the degree you can decipher what is being said around you all the time. The inhabitants of the glorious "Land 'O Thais" take great comfort and pleasure in hiding behind their language barrier. I have found once they know it is not the "security blanket" they thought it was, they actually become somewhat 'normal' in their interactions with you.

After touring too many schools to count and taking free lessons at more places than I can remember; for me the method of learning by transliteration was a waste of time. Unfortunately this country has no official government sanctioned standardized version of transliteration which can show the subtleties of the tones in thai. Benjawan Poomsan Becker seems to be the most consistent with the transliteration in all the books, but again it's a crutch that once you have gleaned the understanding of the thai alphabet, vowels, and tone marks becomes totally useless.

I recommend for beginners to concentrate on learning the most frequently used verbs, and tense marking words. To the people who profess thai is a single tense language; I say you know next to nothing about thai. It may be true the thai verbs don't conjugate like English verbs do (where it changes words with the tense) but thai has a plethora of time marking words. Words which denote if an action is forthcoming, already happened, currently happening, will happen soon, might happen, ought to happen, must happen, as well as markers showing if the action is coming towards or moving away from the speaker.

My advice to anyone wanting to learn this language, tour as many of the schools as you can, take all the 'free' classes they offer, and pick one which suits your learning style. I hear too many foreigners, who've been here for years, fall back on the "I'm tone deaf", "I'm too old", etc. The real answer is probably NOT that they can't learn thai, but that the way it was being taught wasn't conducive to their learning style. Don't fall into the trap of convincing yourself it is simply beyond you to learn, because one school's format didn't "click" with you.

Good luck, I will concede the fact that this is a rich interesting language, full of subtleties, innuendos, and double entendres. Unfortunately that doesn’t change the fact it is a one country language with little practical application to the real world outside the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

[mangkorn]

Gee. Bitter?

[realmadrid25]

Well, AUA Bangkok uses immersion, for one.

Personally I learn best when I can ask questions. And it takes a long time for most people to become proficient enough in Thai to be able to ask questions about language and pronunciation, apart from obvious ones such as 'what does x mean', 'what is the difference between x and y'.

However, for those who find traditional learning did not work well for them, it might be a good idea with immersion. It certainly is beneficial as ONE method of language learning among others. But some aspects are simply easier to absorb when explained theoretically in a language you can understand.

it seems like all the thai people i try to learn with tell me "when i learned english/french/whatever the teacher never answered my questions. when i ask them how to say something they just say it as fast as possible and they feel that this is the best way for me to learn. personally, it drives me crazy. i want them to tell me each word slowly and then to say it quickly. without being able to ask questions, i dont see how you are doing anything except learning to mimick sounds.

[Tod Daniels]

What ever school you eventually go to or by what ever method you choose to learn; by all means do not buy into anyone's philosophy of teaching you "parroted" phrases spit out at break neck speed. This technique is rampant and does a huge disservice to a student by not teaching individual words. It gives you next to no idea how to make other phrases with the words you learn. I have found a few words spoken clearly even with marginal tones will go much further than a mouthful spit out in a blur of unintelligible gibberish.

It is unfortunately this exact way thais have been taught English. Hence their response to the question; "How are you?" Ask 10 thais this question and you'll most likely get the run-on sentence; "I-m-fie-thak-you-an-you?" They were taught this as a group of words, so can rarely break them down for further usage in sentences.

In my studies I have realized this language is nearly impossible to translate word for word. The biggest problem I had was learning that groups of words in thai had not so much a literal word-for-word meaning but that they conveyed a 'concept' or 'idea'. There are however, more similarities than differences between thai and English in the concept groupings of thai words convey in context.

When I was first learning thai; I would take something a thai said, then inside my head do the following:

*translate it word for word into English

*re-order the words for English context

*try to figure out <deleted> they were actually saying

*formulate an appropriate response in English,

*translate & reorder the response back into thai

*finally; reply to them

As one might imagine; I was certainly not running with a Pentium Processor doing that. I was able to converse albeit quite slowly. I did get quite good at saying "Give me a second, I am thinking."

In my interactions with the inhabitants here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" just under 20-25% of the things spoken by thais have little or no information to add/detract from something they are saying. You can discount just about any sentence ending which isn’t a time marker, doesn't denote a question, or imply a response is needed. Their seemingly endless uses of polite particles, sentence softeners, as well as hypothetical endings are not needed to know what they are actually saying. Most of them are part of the ever-present "face saving", or what I think of as the "let's have a harmonious interaction even if I am lying thru my teeth to you" mindset, and can be discounted outright without sentence context degrading one iota.

When someone is speaking to me, I listen first for the verbs and verb order in multiple verb sentences, then for time markers for sequence of events and finally objects being spoken about. I can usually glean what they are saying with pretty high proficiency and accuracy.

Again, I sincerely wish anyone undertaking the oh-so arduous task of learning to understand, speak and/or read this language the best of luck. It is not something you will wake up one day and suddenly know. It is a continual process akin to building a bridge one stone at a time across a raging river. Some stones get washed away and need to be replaced, but some do not. Before you know it you can walk across the river and visit the inhabitants on the other side. My language skills have progressed immensely, and I feel while there may not be a suspension bridge across the ‘river’ yet, there is at least a footpath. To quote Robert Frost; “and that has made all the difference”.

P/S: I am NOT bitter; quite honestly I enjoy my life here immensely. I realize my version of reality is NOT compatible with everyone else’s and I am fine with that. I accept and tolerate the inhabitants here for the simple fact it is their country, and I play by their rules, just as in my country they play by mine.

Just to show you I do have the true spirit of “all things thai” here;

ขอให้โชคดีตลอดชีวิต

*Edited twice for spelling*

Edited September 8, 2007 by tod-daniels

[meadish_sweetball]

it seems like all the thai people i try to learn with tell me "when i learned english/french/whatever the teacher never answered my questions. when i ask them how to say something they just say it as fast as possible and they feel that this is the best way for me to learn. personally, it drives me crazy. i want them to tell me each word slowly and then to say it quickly. without being able to ask questions, i dont see how you are doing anything except learning to mimick sounds.

Agreed. Obviously, with time, even the parroting method means you will learn - but for analytical people, some theory will help you get there quicker. Whether it should be a lot of theory or not is down to individual preference. Some, like myself, enjoy a fair bit of theory and order, while others would rather just focus on the practical side.

It is just that when you have to figure out things for yourself without anybody to help you make sense of things, it will take longer, and if you do not learn to reflect about what you are learning at all, it may not be as useful to you in the end.

[CSS]

What ever school you eventually go to or by what ever method you choose to learn; by all means do not buy into anyone's philosophy of teaching you "parroted" phrases spit out at break neck speed.

...

P/S: I am NOT bitter; quite honestly I enjoy my life here immensely. I realize my version of reality is NOT compatible with everyone else’s and I am fine with that. I accept and tolerate the inhabitants here for the simple fact it is their country, and I play by their rules, just as in my country they play by mine.

Just to show you I do have the true spirit of “all things thai” here;

ขอให้โชคดีตลอดชีวิต

*Edited twice for spelling*

I actually find that learning full phrases rather than individual words is a valuable and effective way in learning a language. Thai was the first language where I started learning that way so it took some getting used to but once I let go of trying to learn Thai the way I had learned previous languages and made the proper mental shift I began to prefer it. The benefit of this method allowed me to completely skip the phase you mentioned, where you would translate word for word and so forth. I thought in Thai from day one because the phrase was linked to an action or object or idea rather than an English translation. I remember while learning Spanish I made my first trip to Mexico and felt like I could understand everything if only they would just speak slower; I felt I knew the vocab but I just couldn't keep up. I've never felt like Thais talk too fast and never felt like comprehension gaps were due to the speed of speech of the speaker. I wondered why I never needed to ask a Thai to speak slower, as I constantly did in Spanish and just assumed that it was because Spanish is a language spoken quickly and Thai is not. However, after hearing of experiences like yours, I think it was due in great part to the manner in which I learned Thai. Granted, my formal Thai lessons only lasted for 3 months but it was 5 hours per day, 5 days a week plus a Thai host family for those first 3 months.

With this method I found that it took longer for words and phrases "to click" but once they did I had them for good. My impression was that it felt slower but was actually a faster method of learning to speak Thai. I don't know how long I took Spanish before feeling confidant enough to talk to someone. I was holding simple simple conversations in Thai after the first week.

You're correct, initially it's just a jumble of sounds and I grumbled about not being able to build new sentences on my own also because I didn't know the individual parts. However, as I learned more and more phrases I also added more and more context which then allowed me to build new sentences based on the ones I had learned. This, I felt, allowed me to build sentences more quickly, in fact, because I had "templates" to use in their construction. I didn't have to start from scratch.

In terms of words "that don't carry any meaning" in the early stages of learning a language I would say you're correct and it's best to ignore them. Initially when learning a language I try to get to a stage where I can simply transmit information, to say what I want to say. Later, once I feel that I can get across and idea in most situations then the next step is to transmit that idea bundled together with the right emotional context. This is where those 20-25% of words you mentioned carry large amounts of meaning. In every language there are many many ways to say anything, one way is usually chosen over another based on the "extra baggage" that is carried with it. The bare bones translation or meaning is the same but the feeling and thus the outcome or reaction from the listener can be vary greatly.

I too find learning Thai to be a challenge and I attempt to both understand and appreciate the people in whose country I'm living as a guest.

All the best.

[KhaoNiaw]

It is unfortunately this exact way thais have been taught English. Hence their response to the question; "How are you?" Ask 10 thais this question and you'll most likely get the run-on sentence; "I-m-fie-thak-you-an-you?" They were taught this as a group of words, so can rarely break them down for further usage in sentences.

I don't entirely agree with this.

If they are also being taught to have the ability to analyze and break things down, then taking in chinks of language can be useful. It is actually one way that language is acquired (as opposed to learned) and it really isn't difficult to take things a step further, so that speakers can get some understanding of what they're actually saying.

[Neeranam]

The illustrious "Immersion Method" for learning the language here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is a double edged sword. For the people who have real jobs, NOT the degree-less starving english teachers; getting to interact with people who speak anything remotely close to 'high register' thai is difficult. Foreigners married to lower class, or uneducated thais will certainly learn to communicate at that social level of the language and it is apparent to every person spoken to whether the thai acknowledges it or not. Do not be duped by the ever smiling sheep-like sock puppets that populate this country and will most likely understand, encourage, and parrot the phrase; พูดไทยเก่งมาก. All too often, in reality, the thai spoken by foreigners is not much more than “street thai”, “two-word thai”, or “bar-gurl thai”. When I hear a foreigner speaking thai I can immediately distinguish whether that person learned from a Prathom-6 drop out, or if they learned in a different social context, be it at a school or at work.

The "Pub/Wife/(in)significant other method of learning can also be fraught with disaster. Many times that person doesn't really want you speaking or understanding thai to the degree you can decipher what is being said around you all the time. The inhabitants of the glorious "Land 'O Thais" take great comfort and pleasure in hiding behind their language barrier. I have found once they know it is not the "security blanket" they thought it was, they actually become somewhat 'normal' in their interactions with you.

After touring too many schools to count and taking free lessons at more places than I can remember; for me the method of learning by transliteration was a waste of time. Unfortunately this country has no official government sanctioned standardized version of transliteration which can show the subtleties of the tones in thai. Benjawan Poomsan Becker seems to be the most consistent with the transliteration in all the books, but again it's a crutch that once you have gleaned the understanding of the thai alphabet, vowels, and tone marks becomes totally useless.

I recommend for beginners to concentrate on learning the most frequently used verbs, and tense marking words. To the people who profess thai is a single tense language; I say you know next to nothing about thai. It may be true the thai verbs don't conjugate like English verbs do (where it changes words with the tense) but thai has a plethora of time marking words. Words which denote if an action is forthcoming, already happened, currently happening, will happen soon, might happen, ought to happen, must happen, as well as markers showing if the action is coming towards or moving away from the speaker.

My advice to anyone wanting to learn this language, tour as many of the schools as you can, take all the 'free' classes they offer, and pick one which suits your learning style. I hear too many foreigners, who've been here for years, fall back on the "I'm tone deaf", "I'm too old", etc. The real answer is probably NOT that they can't learn thai, but that the way it was being taught wasn't conducive to their learning style. Don't fall into the trap of convincing yourself it is simply beyond you to learn, because one school's format didn't "click" with you.

Good luck, I will concede the fact that this is a rich interesting language, full of subtleties, innuendos, and double entendres. Unfortunately that doesn’t change the fact it is a one country language with little practical application to the real world outside the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Very interesting post - I disagree with most of it and laugh at the rest. "high register Thai" I wonder why you have this superior outlook. Aren't you the guy who said that you've never met a Thai in all the time that you've been here that was inferior to you

When I hear a foreigner speaking thai I can immediately distinguish whether that person learned from a Prathom-6 drop out, or if they learned in a different social context, be it at a school or at work

If you heard me speaking, I doubt if you could tell where I learned. Edited September 8, 2007 by Neeranam

[BKKGuitar]

I dropped by the Berlitz office in Bangkok and their method is kind of new to me- no English spoken in the class! They use pictures, body language, anything but English to help you learn.

It makes a hel_l of a lot of sense to me actually.

It is also expensive... so I am going to hunt around a little and was curious if anyone else knew of other immersion style schools in Bkk.

If anyone is interested the berlitz place is in "Times Square Building" near Asok Bts- and they offer a free lesson to try it out.

peace,

DL

I have to reply to this because I feel strongly about this subject. I know that different strategies work for different people. What works for one learner might not for another etc., but i really feel that the immersion strategy is not an effective one.

Examples that come to mind would be the US government's Defense Language Institute, and the AUA Thai program in Bangkok. At DLI, in an advanced "immersion" course I took, the instructors were ordered to not use a word of English in classes. They would enter the room and begin talking. The students eventually begin to understand a word or two, along with a splitting headache. At some point the teacher HAS to revert to English for explanation. Every class included the teacher at some point furtively checking the window at the door and then explaining something in a whisper. The irritation was tremendous, since the students were very motivated to learn and were forced to sit and endure this, instead of diving in and working with the language.

At AUA, I was allowed to observe one class (after gauging my Thai language ability at the office, they sent me to observe an intermediate level class, i forgot what level it was). The young energetic male Thai instructor entered the room holding a newspaper and spent the entire period talking about an article from the paper. The students are NOT ALLOWED to speak! They must remain passively listening, with the assumption that at some point some of the language starts to sink in. I spoke with several students after the class, and they like the class and felt they were progressing nicely, which contradicts my opinions on immersion...

I really feel that this immersion strategy is mostly an irritating waste of time. Yes, the students eventually begin learning, if the presentation is mixed with other activities, reference materials and guidance, but it's a long, drawn-out process. I feel that the best way to learn language (for me, anyway) is to roll up the sleeves, dive in and work with it: dialogues, lots of examples, vocab lists, pattern drills, reading, listening, speaking, all preferably with a native speaker's guidance, and lots of hard work.

[MacWalen]

I dropped by the Berlitz office in Bangkok and their method is kind of new to me- no English spoken in the class! They use pictures, body language, anything but English to help you learn.

It makes a hel_l of a lot of sense to me actually.

It is also expensive... so I am going to hunt around a little and was curious if anyone else knew of other immersion style schools in Bkk.

If anyone is interested the berlitz place is in "Times Square Building" near Asok Bts- and they offer a free lesson to try it out.

peace,

DL

You might try Walen School of Thai, free demonstration, lessons not so expensive and the method is very interesting, after you try you can decide if you like it or not. Just above Berlitz in Times Square.

[realthaideal]

"Translation is based on good comprehension of the source language, but even more so on the ability to express yourself naturally and idiomatically in the target language. That's why most professional translators only translate into their mother tongue.

Fluency does not come from translation, but fluency does not really impair your ability to translate either. Separate skills that can be practiced separately."

I think Sateev and Meadish are right on. But there is also the mindset which is always super important. First - You have to believe you can do it. Second - You have to be committed to doing it, not in a specific time frame, but know that you will/are doing it. And then as to immersion and what your head will do with the words Third - You need to be in a part of the brain that is completely new and fresh. The Thai side of things if you will. A western mind can't hack it. Indeed I just go into this other self - the Thai self, and that is who does my Thai talking. I liken this to why I have problems playing guitar - that I cannot cross over out of my usual RTD head and into the music thinking side. The one that just 'is' eith the music. Not thinking about it, but just doing and being it. That is what happens when you are immersed. However yes, I will grant you there are endless hours of reconciling questions and theories of words, grammar n such that do require your normal analytical and Falang-tongued head. I'm speaking to where I think most people who can do foreign language go in their minds when Thai happens for them. ANy other opinions on where yer heads is at ?

[retirednavyman]

When I was stationed in the Philippines I learned how to speak Tagalog fluently in about a year and a half. I used the immersion method, I spoke with locals, I studied a Tagalog-English dictionary to memorize words. Pretty soon those words became sentences and eventually I learned enough words and sentences to be able to converse in the native dialect without using English.

Of course you have to realize that Tagalog is very similar to Spanish and some of the words in Tagalog mean the same thing in Spanish although the spelling is different in most cases. I spoke some Spanish but not on the scale that I spoke, read and even wrote in Tagalog. Anyway, that's what worked for me and I stuck with it.