Farang Lobby

[tutsiwarrior]

I brought a smile to your face??? always willin' to entertain...but I ain't laughin' about my immigration status in Thailand...it's rocket launchers from the roof of the premises if they try to <deleted> wid me...

Try to laugh about it - it's a world gone mad and there's <deleted> all we can do about it. As things are now, i can't even return to where i come from if i want to, which i have some thoughts about, because they introduced language tests for foreign spouses of citizens of my place, and there is very little hope that my wife would pass such a test.

If my immigration status here would change, which it always can, then i am truly and thoroughly fecked.

ColPyat...we're cool; violence and destruction gives me indigestion...do you know what Vancouver, BC has got that is remarkable? Wonderful bakeries and dairy products...you can get wonderful rye bread off the shelf in supermarkets...Vic an' miz Jet weigh in an' say it's true...however, as an arachnophobe a huge hairy black specimen approached me as I was sleeping on a friends floor...I screamed in terror...my friend: 'we just scaled one of the most treacherous peaks in western canada and a spider gives you terror???' I said...'Bobby, it's a long story...'

[sriracha john]

Over the years, the Association of Foreigners in Thailand has made dramatic strides in making huge changes in how foreigners are treated in Thailand and many other concerns as described in the OP.

We should all make large donations to this extremely powerful lobbying organization.

Just ask lukamar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showuser=6642

[bunta71]

Two kinds of people in this crazy world....Those who immediately find reasons why something "can"t" happen and then the problem solvers (whom are not ALWAYS successful) who can look beyond the mediocrasies of the nay sayers and will look for ways challenges CAN be overcome. Have been living in S.E. Asia only ten years so I am still a little naive, but I applaud the problem solvers........Step one may be understanding that changes we desire will be benificial to the Kingdom and also very important is to have them believe it is their idea.Just some thoughts from an old naive cat-skinner

[khall64au]

I brought a smile to your face??? always willin' to entertain...but I ain't laughin' about my immigration status in Thailand...it's rocket launchers from the roof of the premises if they try to <deleted> wid me...

Try to laugh about it - it's a world gone mad and there's <deleted> all we can do about it. As things are now, i can't even return to where i come from if i want to, which i have some thoughts about, because they introduced language tests for foreign spouses of citizens of my place, and there is very little hope that my wife would pass such a test.

If my immigration status here would change, which it always can, then i am truly and thoroughly fecked.

So teach each other your repective languages and social/ history essentials... !

Back to the OP: Can we farangs make a bit of a difference in Thailand re- immigration and business climates? Yes we can - if the arguments are socially coherent and economically sound.

Can we try to make Thaivisa an intelligent forum where both Thai people and international readers/ residents respect the views and input here?

[coldcrush]

"Money changes everything"- Cindi Lauper

I prefer

"Girls Just Want To Have Fun"

Freedom of speech!

[khall64au]

"Money changes everything"- Cindi Lauper

I prefer

"Girls Just Want To Have Fun"

Freedom of speech!

Oh, how very Thai!

[tutsiwarrior]

I brought a smile to your face??? always willin' to entertain...but I ain't laughin' about my immigration status in Thailand...it's rocket launchers from the roof of the premises if they try to <deleted> wid me...

Try to laugh about it - it's a world gone mad and there's <deleted> all we can do about it. As things are now, i can't even return to where i come from if i want to, which i have some thoughts about, because they introduced language tests for foreign spouses of citizens of my place, and there is very little hope that my wife would pass such a test.

If my immigration status here would change, which it always can, then i am truly and thoroughly fecked.

So teach each other your repective languages and social/ history essentials... !

Back to the OP: Can we farangs make a bit of a difference in Thailand re- immigration and business climates? Yes we can - if the arguments are socially coherent and economically sound.

Can we try to make Thaivisa an intelligent forum where both Thai people and international readers/ residents respect the views and input here?

who you tryin' to mess with? (expletive omitted in the interest of an 'international' readership...)...ignorance is displayed by not understanding street patois/colloquialisms.

Falangs can't do shit...we are victims to the smiling insincere faces. It don't matter if I have a family here and nowhere else to go...I ain't got no money then I am bad news...a diabetic falang pensioner banged up in the immigration prison???...do you think the smiling faces give a <deleted>???

it ain't intelligent, sweetheart, it's emotional...I ain't got nowhere to go or nothing to lose...I intend to spend my last days in peace and if some cop wants to dispute that then let's see what he's got...my place in the community should be well enough established that I don't got to worry about those considerations 10 years from now...but, this is thailand...never forget it...

I'm just enunciating what all of us have thought about...to the love it or leave brigade I got my hand on my crotch; dig it??

[cdnvic]

I sympathize with you Tutsi, but please.... don't dis the bacon

Edited September 4, 2007 by cdnvic

[howtoescape]

I understand the OP point he is living and paying taxes in one way or another in a foreign land that gives him no respect or rights whatsoever.

If he was given the most basic of rights, i.e once married and living in LOS for a few years to be able to get citizenship, own land, buy a house, vote.

However in many parts of England people believing in a certain religion that has only recently on a mass scale been shipped to this overly fair and not so pleasant land are now voting for their "Own People" in regions such as Bradford, Leicester and a number communities in major cities and now there are the beginnings of laws for one religion and another for the majority. The perfect way to build on the resentment that already exists between the natives and the immigrants.

Whilst i believe you should be free to vote in Thailand once married or after you have served the country by grafting for a number of years, the thought of an official lobby representing FARANGS in Thailand is detromental and will quite rightly cause resentment.

[Suszzy]

Thailand is not the USA. You do not have free speach in Thailand.

Exactly...!!!

[geriatrickid]

There are professional lobbyists for some foreigners and they usually come bearing gifts that are placed in offshore bank accounts. This is how some foreign businesses conduct themselves. In respect to the individual foreign resident, if he or she has the financial means, a local lobbyist can be retained, usually an attorney that knows how to charm the right people. If you have the money, miracles do happen. For those of limited financial means, your recourse is as limited as it would be in your native lands, with the exception that you may vote back home. You don't have the ability to generate an immediate tangible benefit and on an individual basis are deemed expendable. If you "marginal" types were allowed to organize that would be akin to unionizing the factory. It seems that the powers that be are followers of Henry Ford when it comes to allowing the peons to assemble.

[Alfonso]

Starting last Saturday the Bangkok Post ran a short article about the A380 scratching itself against a building. No one was at fault according to that article. Sunday there was a longer article with more information. Monday another article with even more information Yesterday the article was really long and the spokesman admitted that human error was the culprit. A really big break through!

I believe these four articles were published because Farangs complained in mass via the internet and continued to complain until the spokesman realized he had to give into the farang way of thinking and admit that human error was the cause of the scratch. To him that was the only way to get the Bangkok Post off his back and us off the back of the Bangkok Post. I have no way of knowing this...I'm just a happy farang with internet with a brain locked into fantasy land.

Try it. Everytime the Bangkok Post or the Nation publishes an article that fails to adress the issue or hides behind some cloud of smoke write an email to the editor demanding more information. Might work. I think it did with this great big A380 that was just running around on the ramp unattended.

Cheers

[steveromagnino]

Put simply. Thais do not wish to hear ANY opinion from non-Thais. It does not matter if the idea is better or not. They are too caught up in pride and ignorance to listen.

A prime example is the recent debacle over the EU offering to aid a free and fair election here. It was reported to the public that the EU want to control Thailand, and from there they sink into false pride about having never being colonised. Any grasp of history would shake that free.

A pressure group from nasty evil farangs that only seek to control Thais and take over Thailand (yes! thats what they think) would be a waste of time and possibly counterproductive. If you ask for one thing they will give another. Yes! Thais are really that dumb.

Said exactly like the sort of farang kee nok that isn't an advisor to the govt; isn't on the board of a Thai company; doesn't sit on the board of Thai charities; doesn't represent significant MNCs based on Thailand; doesn't work as a headmaster of a school; doesn't sit on the board of local clubs committees; doesn't have a significant base of staff; doesn't work as a lobbyist already for major organisations here...in short...said like the typical person with nothing to offer, lots of hot air and no one who wants to listen to them.

Tone down the stupid racist rhetoric and open your eyes. Unless YOU are really that BLIND. Look at the vast numbers of successful foreigners here in senior positions, influencing trade policy; fiscal policy; education; tourism; sport and many other aspects of Thailand. For whatever reason VISA policy and immigration requirements have never been much of a high priority for this lot....and I suspect it is because they have no real concern for people scraping by at the bottom level; in fact they may not even want the Nana Plaza 8am boozer crowd here at all. Sad but true, FOREIGNERS in Thailand are a diverse group and may not all share the same opinions. Shock. Total shock. But I guess when you turn off Fox news then anyone with a brain would have figured out that not all Thais are the same either. But....having a brain is overrated

The only lobby group not already in existance is the deadbeat squad on Soi Struggle. Anyone thinking that they need/should be reprezentin' should ask themselves.....

Do you belong to your local Chamber of Commerce? Do you get involved with community groups? In fact do you have a track record as a lobbyist or using lobbyists in the country you come from?

[palm]

Put simply. Thais do not wish to hear ANY opinion from non-Thais. It does not matter if the idea is better or not. They are too caught up in pride and ignorance to listen.

A prime example is the recent debacle over the EU offering to aid a free and fair election here. It was reported to the public that the EU want to control Thailand, and from there they sink into false pride about having never being colonised. Any grasp of history would shake that free.

A pressure group from nasty evil farangs that only seek to control Thais and take over Thailand (yes! thats what they think) would be a waste of time and possibly counterproductive. If you ask for one thing they will give another. Yes! Thais are really that dumb.

Said exactly like the sort of farang kee nok that isn't an advisor to the govt; isn't on the board of a Thai company; doesn't sit on the board of Thai charities; doesn't represent significant MNCs based on Thailand; doesn't work as a headmaster of a school; doesn't sit on the board of local clubs committees; doesn't have a significant base of staff; doesn't work as a lobbyist already for major organisations here...in short...said like the typical person with nothing to offer, lots of hot air and no one who wants to listen to them.

Tone down the stupid racist rhetoric and open your eyes. Unless YOU are really that BLIND. Look at the vast numbers of successful foreigners here in senior positions, influencing trade policy; fiscal policy; education; tourism; sport and many other aspects of Thailand. For whatever reason VISA policy and immigration requirements have never been much of a high priority for this lot....and I suspect it is because they have no real concern for people scraping by at the bottom level; in fact they may not even want the Nana Plaza 8am boozer crowd here at all. Sad but true, FOREIGNERS in Thailand are a diverse group and may not all share the same opinions. Shock. Total shock. But I guess when you turn off Fox news then anyone with a brain would have figured out that not all Thais are the same either. But....having a brain is overrated

The only lobby group not already in existance is the deadbeat squad on Soi Struggle. Anyone thinking that they need/should be reprezentin' should ask themselves.....

Do you belong to your local Chamber of Commerce? Do you get involved with community groups? In fact do you have a track record as a lobbyist or using lobbyists in the country you come from?

Very well put.

[ray23]

A farrang lobby, just read this thread and I think you will see just how dificult that would be. Me I waited till it was legal for me to reside here. I jumped through the hoop, made that choice, not complaining about it, willing to accept that when I came here. Got the house the cars Ect. The only thing that bothers me is changing the hoops after I made that decesion.

Permit Reidence program was my ultimate goal taking the Thai classes to read an write to meet thier standard all that is OK a price to pay. However, then you see that in the entire country only a 196 granted.

Yes I would like a little more secure retirement. since tht is the ultimate goal a peaceful retirment.

As far a freedom on a daily basis concerned I enjoy much more freedom here then I have ever experienced before. I agree how we that are really living here conduct ourselves on a daliy basis is really imnportant. I would love to volunteer adn hep whereever I can. But I have a single annual visa, which means no work permit. Tick off the wrong guy and you can be deported fro that. Not a chance I'm willing to take. No matter what they call me this is my home and I do my best to protect that life for my family and myself.

Lobby idea actually hit me as well, but then I came to the realizations that have been expresed here. So I don't think so.

If I had to leave because of an unjust change yes I would fight, but not by punching someone but they Thai way file a suit and challenge the law. I have been involved in a litigation here and hey guess what the courts rulled for me. So it can be done.

So far the changes that I have seen make uncomfortable, but nothing but another hoop to complete thus far.

The one thing that seems to be constant is change here this year some negative, maybe next year positive.

[canadiangirl]

Said exactly like the sort of farang kee nok that isn't an advisor to the govt; isn't on the board of a Thai company; doesn't sit on the board of Thai charities; doesn't represent significant MNCs based on Thailand; doesn't work as a headmaster of a school; doesn't sit on the board of local clubs committees; doesn't have a significant base of staff; doesn't work as a lobbyist already for major organisations here...in short...said like the typical person with nothing to offer, lots of hot air and no one who wants to listen to them.

Steveromagnino,

you continue to impress.

[samran]

Said exactly like the sort of farang kee nok that isn't an advisor to the govt; isn't on the board of a Thai company; doesn't sit on the board of Thai charities; doesn't represent significant MNCs based on Thailand; doesn't work as a headmaster of a school; doesn't sit on the board of local clubs committees; doesn't have a significant base of staff; doesn't work as a lobbyist already for major organisations here...in short...said like the typical person with nothing to offer, lots of hot air and no one who wants to listen to them.

Steveromagnino,

you continue to impress.

get a room you two.....

[canadiangirl]

get a room you two.....

hahhahahahahhahaa!

What can I say? I like his posts. People with a brain stand out on TV. :

[samran]

get a room you two.....

hahhahahahahhahaa!

What can I say? I like his posts. People with a brain stand out on TV. :

...which frankly, is not to difficult.....

I've met Steve in real life, and trust me, he is ain't that bright a spark. I mean, he is Kiwi. None of those blokes are terribly smart.

[steveromagnino]

get a room you two.....

hahhahahahahhahaa!

What can I say? I like his posts. People with a brain stand out on TV. :

...which frankly, is not to difficult.....

I've met Steve in real life, and trust me, he is ain't that bright a spark. I mean, he is Kiwi. None of those blokes are terribly smart.

I cannot say that you following me around with that ridiculous moustache/glasses glued together, pretending to read a newspaper and then wandering behind me in the shadows counts as 'meeting The Steve in real life'.

Believe me, nothing about my highly unsuccessful life is real; it all seems like a very bad dream from which i hope to wake soon. If only I had better teeth and possibly some Hugo Boss suits, perhaps it all would have been different. But in the meantine, I shall have to find some outlet for your desire that the world should owe me a living....

Sign me up to the whinger lobby, er, 'farang for equal rights lobby' and I will be the first to wave the streaky white underpants of surrender at Sanarm Luang. Or more likely Chuwit Park; after all, most farang cannot risk getting scammed in a taxi going to Sanarm Luang, Chuwit Park is right within walking distance for most of us living in the ghettos of the lower Sukhumvit area :_)

Canadian Girl - your high opinions of my posts will end soon enough if you read much more of what I write I am sure but in the meantime...thanks for your kind words. Or to use the Canadian vanacular 'thanks aye'

[bobbin]

Better late then never.

Heng

As a Thai citizen that could afford an American post-secondary education and who is a significant stakeholder in this country (based on references to ownership of revenue properties), do you think this idea has legs?

I hope you do because I would like to see a movement by farangs to have some say in the direction their lives will take.

A proper, influential entity that could quietly offer the position of the many farang who have voted with their feet and relocated to Thailand.

A grass-roots approach marked by cooperation between the various expat groups leading to retaining the services of "some organization/someone" who knows the system here and can work it.

Unfortunately, the experiences of the various Chambers of Commerce relatve to the FBA don't offer much hope. But then again, it has stalled out for the time being.

[Gravelrash]

I would imagine that if such a lobby were to exist, it would be better to go about it in a roundabout way. Would suggest religious groups are the experts at that, appear to be altuistic, whereas your perceived generosity is to progress another agenda, in their case recruitment.

Clubs like Lions and Rotary attract wealthy Thais, as perhaps there is a status issue there. Perhaps a foundation doing chraritable works that can eventually attract influential Thai sponsors or members would be the way to attack it. I would suggest that attaining status via good works is more likely to a successful conduit to discreet lobbying than marching in the streets. A long term project, no doubt, but one that doesn't attract critical attention. Perhaps membership of said charitable foundation could even be an extra star on the way to PR for some.

Has holes I know, but believe indirect would work better than direct here.

[Upcountry]

Assuming enough farang and their spouses can agree on something, there is a way, via the new constitution, to have an influence.

Let's say that larger Thai-Farang associations enable dialog on issues that affect Thai-farang couples. If the Thai spouses submit a petition to change certain laws, it could happen.

Of course, if this petition was perceived as being fueled by farang demands then Thai nationalism would probably quash any such movement.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/040907_News/04Sep2007_news27.php

Under Article 163, at least 10,000 eligible voters can petition the National Assembly to consider drawing up a draft law on rights and freedoms, and on principles for fundamental state policies.

No less than a third of the petitioners takes part in the vetting of the draft law they propose.

[steveromagnino]

I would imagine that if such a lobby were to exist, it would be better to go about it in a roundabout way. Would suggest religious groups are the experts at that, appear to be altuistic, whereas your perceived generosity is to progress another agenda, in their case recruitment.

Clubs like Lions and Rotary attract wealthy Thais, as perhaps there is a status issue there. Perhaps a foundation doing chraritable works that can eventually attract influential Thai sponsors or members would be the way to attack it. I would suggest that attaining status via good works is more likely to a successful conduit to discreet lobbying than marching in the streets. A long term project, no doubt, but one that doesn't attract critical attention. Perhaps membership of said charitable foundation could even be an extra star on the way to PR for some.

Has holes I know, but believe indirect would work better than direct here.

already plenty of farang and other foreigners doing all of the above.

It is a good idea, and it works.

[tutsiwarrior]

I say we form the 'Save Tutsiwarrior' lobby

Tutsi! They've gotta got through us first!

that boy...he knows what's happenin'...red flags and choruses of the International thru the streets of Songphinong...NO PASARAN!!!

[OlRedEyes]

Said exactly like the sort of farang kee nok that isn't an advisor to the govt; isn't on the board of a Thai company; doesn't sit on the board of Thai charities; doesn't represent significant MNCs based on Thailand; doesn't work as a headmaster of a school; doesn't sit on the board of local clubs committees; doesn't have a significant base of staff; doesn't work as a lobbyist already for major organisations here...in short...said like the typical person with nothing to offer, lots of hot air and no one who wants to listen to them.

Steveromagnino,

you continue to impress.

You are impressed rather easily.

[tutsiwarrior]

I say we form the 'Save Tutsiwarrior' lobby

Tutsi! They've gotta got through us first!

that boy...he knows what's happenin'...red flags and choruses of the International thru the streets of Songphinong...NO PASARAN!!!

oh, and yeah...sumbody bring a photographer, a 21st century type John Reed...we need sumpin' suitably heroic...'tutsiwarrior rallies the workers at Petrograd/Songphinong...' then I'll get ol' bendix to come and eliminate my enemies...

[afrosau]

For those of you that contributed with reasonable comments; thank you. I will consider your input and look into some of the organizations mentioned.

[tutsiwarrior]

For those of you that contributed with reasonable comments; thank you. I will consider your input and look into some of the organizations mentioned.

the implication being that sum of us 'contributors' are worthless scum and not worthy of serious consideration...

(a tattoo on the back of an outlaw biker...' I'd rather eat worms than belong to the Lions/Rotary/respectable civilians Club...')

no disrespect to the poster...

[Heng]

Better late then never.

Heng

As a Thai citizen that could afford an American post-secondary education and who is a significant stakeholder in this country (based on references to ownership of revenue properties), do you think this idea has legs?

I hope you do because I would like to see a movement by farangs to have some say in the direction their lives will take.

A proper, influential entity that could quietly offer the position of the many farang who have voted with their feet and relocated to Thailand.

A grass-roots approach marked by cooperation between the various expat groups leading to retaining the services of "some organization/someone" who knows the system here and can work it.

Unfortunately, the experiences of the various Chambers of Commerce relatve to the FBA don't offer much hope. But then again, it has stalled out for the time being.

Thanks Bobbin, but mine are hardly unique nor significant credentials.

As for the idea... so far it's not really clear what that idea is exactly. As mentioned there are ALREADY more than a few avenues for foreigners and to a slightly lesser extent falangs that can be used to exert their influence.

By your reference to my property related endeavers I assume you're asking me about foreigners and their right to own property in the future and what I think about that? As to what I think would happen if they suddenly threw open the doors to the candy store (why beat around the bush and say "lobby" at all?... there are only so many things that the kids outside of the candy store want... they want to right to be in the store -immigration rights-, they want the right to buy candy -property-, and they want the right to work/own businesses themselves so that they can shop in said store) to foreigners, I think that the poor and downtrodden masses of locals -myself and about 10% of the slightly to much better off Thai population not included- would only find themselves poorer and even more downtrodden. Contrary to popular belief, those in the Thai middle class and the relatively small numbers that make up the elite would benefit by leaps and bounds with an open door policy.... after all, most of us bought our shares of the country (in land, businesses, etc.) at a dime or less a share. It's the masses who have spent their lives and generations looking into the candy store from the outside that would find the candy even further out of reach.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Heng