Tourists Trapped In Blazing Hotel

[gbswales]

The advantage of staying in a major brand hotel is that almost always, no matter what part of the world they are located in, the life safety quality will be of similar standard. Holiday Inn/Intercontinental , Starwood, Hilton, Sofitel, Swissotel, Marriott, Novotel, Amari etc. all have proper fire and smoke detection and appropriate exits.

Sometimes paying a bit more is worth it.

Swisshotel a "bit more" - we were stuck for a room one night and they wanted 6 times what we were paying for the 3* siam beverley - 5000 baht a night extra for sprinklers is more than most peopel can afford. Of course typically in a bangkok hotel if you go there to book for the same night they mysteriously only ever have rooms on the executive floor!! To be fair booked in advance it would only have cost four times as much!!

Safety should have nothing to do with price - hotels should be inspected regularly by the fire service - I am not suggesting here that Siam Beverly is in anyway unsafe - its a very comfortable well run hotel and as far as I am aware their sprinkler system is working

This has to be the worst nightmare for any tourist living on a normal income - however I am far from convinced that european hotels are any safer - just a hel_l of a lot more expensive

[pointofview]

I know a lot of the places I stay have sprinkler systems, but some don't. How old is this building? I would think a luxury hotel would have them.

Edit: Oh, I just checked room rates and it sounds more like a mid-range hotel.

I was one of the rescue workers there last night and as we worked our way up the building stairwells the lights went out and suprise NO emergency lighting!!!!!!!!!

The owners shold be jailed! OK many places don't have sprinkler systems but EMERGENCY LIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!

Its about time owners and the government were made accountable for BASIC SAFETY!!!!!!!!!!

I was so angry because people started screaming and were so scared when the lights went out! I feel so sorry for all those toursits involved last night! hel_l of an experience!

No lighting

No sprinklers

There was a few alarms in various places but not all floors or areas. We found come people still sleeping as we kicked in doors on the higher smoked filled floors. A few people taken to hospital with smoke inhalation and shock but pretty sure no-one died. I left there at 5am

Could have been so much worse. Good job by the fire brigade boys to get a very difficult and hidden fire under control through a very old and dangerous building!

If the authoritys allow babys to carried aloft on motorcycles speeding along the suhkumvit they obviously have no concept or concern for saftey

[Jimjim]

You might recall that our civilizations took centuries to learn in safety and standards what we are expecting the Thais to take as a given today. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. 1 or 2 generations ago 90% of all these people were poor farmers!

Get off your high horse some of you holier than thou farangs, your attitude just gives us all a bad wrap! If you don't understand what you are dealing in here, learn or leave. It is as simple as that. Some of you should really just go home, because that word HOME does not apply for you here!

Ah, yes, some people just like to tell people to go home when they merely make suggestions to make Thailand better. Are you immigration? If not, then I don't see how you have any right to tell people to go home. Why don't you go home? As you're holier-than-thou in that you think your point of view is more understanding and therefore, better. Are you from Thailand? Than the world "home" does not apply to you either. Get off your high horse, sir.

[redrus]

Certainly not a luxury hotel. I've stayed there several times, the last of which about four years ago and even then the hotel was looking very old and shabby.

SL.

Certainly not a luxury hotel. I've stayed there several times, the last of which about four years ago and even then the hotel was looking very old and shabby.

SL.

It was a nice place in the late 60s. Pretty down at heel when I last stayed there in 96. Would be well past its use-by date now.

Certainly not a luxury hotel. I've stayed there several times, the last of which about four years ago and even then the hotel was looking very old and shabby.

SL.

It was a nice place in the late 60s. Pretty down at heel when I last stayed there in 96. Would be well past its use-by date now.

A clue to the cause there?

Tut tut, no chance of an ounce of compassion then....! , not even a gram....!?

redrus

[Stabbo-Lad]

Certainly not a luxury hotel. I've stayed there several times, the last of which about four years ago and even then the hotel was looking very old and shabby.

SL.

Certainly not a luxury hotel. I've stayed there several times, the last of which about four years ago and even then the hotel was looking very old and shabby.

SL.

It was a nice place in the late 60s. Pretty down at heel when I last stayed there in 96. Would be well past its use-by date now.

Certainly not a luxury hotel. I've stayed there several times, the last of which about four years ago and even then the hotel was looking very old and shabby.

SL.

It was a nice place in the late 60s. Pretty down at heel when I last stayed there in 96. Would be well past its use-by date now.

A clue to the cause there?

Tut tut, no chance of an ounce of compassion then....! , not even a gram....!?

redrus

Merely making an observation. Sympathy for all the victims goes without saying (or should do).

SL.

[markokang]

Just to answer a few questions:

Paul, I have some video footage for you already.

The 5 or 6 emergency doors that I seen were not locked. The exit from the emergency doors was down a straight ladder and into the secure car park area. Which means you have to pass security if you do want to 'do a runner.'

I seen a couple of staff members helping on the upper floors but most were in the lobby area. Most of the evacuation seemed to be done by rescue workers. I arrived about 20 minutes after the first call came in about the fire so I do not know what staff did before that. Generally they were helpful UNLIKE the MRT staff when I went to one of their stations to assist in an accident and was refused entry! They were vetting who they let in (As in allowed only one organisation's members in! UNHEARD of! even in Thailand). Next time there is a big accident in the MRT I hate to think about response times etc if staff can control entry to an emergency!

When I arrived there were no alarms. I heard alarms in various places about 1 hour later when most people were already out.

After about 30 minutes the power went out and there was no lighting, this was the most scary and dangerous part for the guests! It is truly unforgiveable that there was no lighting!

[linglop]

Let's not forget the dreadful tragedy at the Royal Jomtien Resort Hotel, which occurred on 11 July 1997 where 99 individuals died, including 16 in one of the lifts. The hotel has since been renamed as the Jomtien Palace Beach Hotel. The following is one report:

"ROYAL JOMTIEN RESORT HOTEL FIRE - 11 JULY 1997

A blaze that ripped through a popular Thai resort hotel killed at least 78 people,

including 10 foreigners and two children, a senior tourism official said Friday.

The victims dies as a fire raged through the 16 story, 400 room Royal Jomtien

Resort Hotel in this seaside resort town, about 120 miles southeast of Bangkok.

police and hospital sources told Reuters.

Firemen searching the wreckage brought out 78 bodies, including six Hungarians,

three South Koreans and one other foreigner. One further member of a Hungarian

tour group was missing and the dead included two children, the tourism official

said.

Most of the victims were Thai. Another 65 people were injured in the fire. At

least one man jumped to his death from the 11th floor, police said.

A thick smoke billowed into the air, people could be seen on the top floor. Three

helicopters helped firefighters and airlifted people to safety, live television

showed.

Screams could be heard on the television as one woman struggled for several

minutes before managing to get a harness on and was winched up to the roof

of the building.

Several people were leaning out of windows on the higher levles, waving towels

and handkerchiefs to attract attention.

Government officials blamed a lack of sprinklers and locked fire exits for the

high death toll.

The blaze broke out in the ground floor coffee shop of the hotel around 8.30 a.m.

and then spread from the sixth floor to the 12th.

Heavy smoke was still billowing from the building hours after the fire began.

Police said the tragedy was Thailand's worst ever hotel fire.

Bodies were difficult to identify because they were badly charred, police said.

Firefighters, struggling with heavy winds, took nearly five hours to bring the

blaze under control.

"This is the worst disaster in the history of Pattaya," said mayor Pairat

Suthidamrongsawadi. "There were no any sprinklers in this hotel to put out

the initial fire."

Interior Minister Sanoh Thienthong said the hotel had locked all fire exit doors

and this had partly accounted for the high death toll.

"One of the sad things for this hotel is that they locked their fire exit doors.

I learned this from the hotel owner that they locked them to prevent guests

from running off without paying their bills," Sanoh told reporters.

Pairat said the fire was initially spread by a chain explosion of gas

cylinders in the kitchen of the coffee shop.

More than 300 people, mostly Thais attending seminars, were in the hotel when

the fire started.

Rescue workers said most of the seminar participants ran downstairs from the

fifth and sixth floors to escape the fire, but got trapped between burning

levels."

[NamKAheng]

Everybody should take their safety in their own hands. First when you check in in a hotel for the first time you should always look the floor plan that are post in your room or in the hallway, those floor plan provide information of where are the fire escape. Take time to make a mental image of it because if you have to escape in heavy smoke or in the dark it is to late to try to find the plan or the fire escape (this is also valid for airplane).

A few questions here, when was the last time you look at a floor plan for fire exit?

When was the last time you listen to the security speech and look the safety card in the airplane?

Remember that, in a airplane you have 90 seconds to evacuate or you are dead so you don't have the time to try to figure out where is the emergency exit closer to you

I always carry a small LED flashlight in my pocket, they are very cheap to buy, light to carry and the battery last long. When I go to bed in a hotel I always put the flashlight on the desk near the bed so if I need to escape in the dark or heavy smoke I have something I can count on (this also valid for airplane). Even in farang land you can find yourself in deep trouble if you try to get out in heavy smoke or in the dark if the emergency lighthing are not working, even if they are inspected they can failed between two inspection and then you are in deep sh...

In case of a fire before exithing the room check for heat on the door and the door knob before opening the door also check for heavy smoke comming around the door before opening it, it is better to stay in your room then trying to find your way in heavy smoke and the heat of the fire can burn your lung in second, if so stay in the room, try to put some damp towel around the door to minimize the entry of smoke and try to make somebody aware that you are there with the phone if it is working or by the window and wait for the rescue. A mobile phone can be very precious in this situation.

Someone here write about putting a smoke detector in is luggage, not a bad idea, someone should market a small one for travellers I would surely buy one. Smoke detector is the best tool to save your life because they are very sensible and they wake you up at the beginning of a fire not in the middle of it.

Just my two satang.....

[mitrapaap]

Presumably this is not "The" Mandarin Hotel? The Mandarin Hotel chain worldwide is one of the better six star chains and their hotels in London and Hong Kong are superb.

Might be wrong, but still strongly believe that the maximum is 5 stars.

[maprao]

Presumably this is not "The" Mandarin Hotel? The Mandarin Hotel chain worldwide is one of the better six star chains and their hotels in London and Hong Kong are superb.

Might be wrong, but still strongly believe that the maximum is 5 stars.

You can find a 7 star hotel here in Dubai the only one in the world.I to favor the old fashioned system of 1 to 5 stars!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15936989/

If you do a google search for it and check out the prices they are 7 star also

[nonthaburial]

I always always always try to get a room in the lower levels of the hotel.

Reason - If a fire starts, you'll want to get out of the building as quickly as possible. This can be difficult if your room is in the upper floors. In BKK the fire service DO NOT have high level ladders like we have in the west. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ONE ?

When you make your reservations, ask for a room on the ground floor or close to it. If you're not able to do this in the reservation process, request it when you check in.

In fact you are incorrect, the BMA do have high level Turntable Ladders, in fact they have 21 made by SIMON LTI in the USA and capable of reaching 52 meters in height. They also have a number of 60 metre SIMON SNORKELS as well as BRONTO 68 Metre Snorkels.

Problem is they are all off the run and waiting to be refurbished.

[CymruAmByth]

Everybody should take their safety in their own hands. First when you check in in a hotel for the first time you should always look the floor plan that are post in your room or in the hallway, those floor plan provide information of where are the fire escape. Take time to make a mental image of it because if you have to escape in heavy smoke or in the dark it is to late to try to find the plan or the fire escape (this is also valid for airplane).

A few questions here, when was the last time you look at a floor plan for fire exit?

When was the last time you listen to the security speech and look the safety card in the airplane?

Remember that, in a airplane you have 90 seconds to evacuate or you are dead so you don't have the time to try to figure out where is the emergency exit closer to you

I always carry a small LED flashlight in my pocket, they are very cheap to buy, light to carry and the battery last long. When I go to bed in a hotel I always put the flashlight on the desk near the bed so if I need to escape in the dark or heavy smoke I have something I can count on (this also valid for airplane). Even in farang land you can find yourself in deep trouble if you try to get out in heavy smoke or in the dark if the emergency lighthing are not working, even if they are inspected they can failed between two inspection and then you are in deep sh...

In case of a fire before exithing the room check for heat on the door and the door knob before opening the door also check for heavy smoke comming around the door before opening it, it is better to stay in your room then trying to find your way in heavy smoke and the heat of the fire can burn your lung in second, if so stay in the room, try to put some damp towel around the door to minimize the entry of smoke and try to make somebody aware that you are there with the phone if it is working or by the window and wait for the rescue. A mobile phone can be very precious in this situation.

Someone here write about putting a smoke detector in is luggage, not a bad idea, someone should market a small one for travellers I would surely buy one. Smoke detector is the best tool to save your life because they are very sensible and they wake you up at the beginning of a fire not in the middle of it.

Just my two satang.....

And when I wear my beige trousers, I always put 2 pairs of underpants on in case a pee stain tries to get through and become visible.

[catnip]

Some excellent suggestions here. Always check that door handle. There are small smoke hoods you can buy and they will give you a few minutes. Sleep with your SHOES by your bed. Fires, building collapses, etc. have broken glass. Flashlight always. In San Francisco this is all second nature. We even have grab to go bags with valuables and quick clothes to put on like sweatshirt and pants by the bed. The tourists said it was chaos. Isn't there an Incident Command (ICS) in place and don't they follow SEMs. So, easy to learn and then practice, practice. Oh, I'm sure everyone knows this --don't take the elevator. And I have evacuated a lot of buildings in my time residential and public. Where's the p.a. system And a nice thing to do is as you are running out, bang on every door and yell loudly fire, fire. Some people sleep through fire alarms, but few through loud banging and fire, fire is pretty universal. One of the most wonderful sights I have ever seen was a fire man with his ladder leaning against my balcony ready to take my 2 cats in their carry case and me. catnip

[BPayette]

As I have an apartment that I use in BKK, my hotel usage is limited except for holidays outside BKK. However what this does raise is the question of (a) fire regs in Thailand and ( their enforcement. Are there regular inspections? If yes, by whom and how often (and are the reports then public docs)? If no inspections, what is the point of having regulations!?!

You're GOT to be joking!

[

[dezeure]

Certainly not a luxury hotel. I've stayed there several times, the last of which about four years ago and even then the hotel was looking very old and shabby.

SL.

back in the 70's it was a luxury hotel but since then I doubt any safety upgrades have been performed. Fire doors? Sprinklers? Escape exits?

As long as nothing goes wrong no need to update or invest... The only worry is getting as much return...

Another case of TIT...

[meemiathai]

Everybody should take their safety in their own hands. First when you check in in a hotel for the first time you should always look the floor plan that are post in your room or in the hallway, those floor plan provide information of where are the fire escape. Take time to make a mental image of it because if you have to escape in heavy smoke or in the dark it is to late to try to find the plan or the fire escape (this is also valid for airplane).

A few questions here, when was the last time you look at a floor plan for fire exit?

When was the last time you listen to the security speech and look the safety card in the airplane?

Remember that, in a airplane you have 90 seconds to evacuate or you are dead so you don't have the time to try to figure out where is the emergency exit closer to you

I always carry a small LED flashlight in my pocket, they are very cheap to buy, light to carry and the battery last long. When I go to bed in a hotel I always put the flashlight on the desk near the bed so if I need to escape in the dark or heavy smoke I have something I can count on (this also valid for airplane). Even in farang land you can find yourself in deep trouble if you try to get out in heavy smoke or in the dark if the emergency lighthing are not working, even if they are inspected they can failed between two inspection and then you are in deep sh...

In case of a fire before exithing the room check for heat on the door and the door knob before opening the door also check for heavy smoke comming around the door before opening it, it is better to stay in your room then trying to find your way in heavy smoke and the heat of the fire can burn your lung in second, if so stay in the room, try to put some damp towel around the door to minimize the entry of smoke and try to make somebody aware that you are there with the phone if it is working or by the window and wait for the rescue. A mobile phone can be very precious in this situation.

Someone here write about putting a smoke detector in is luggage, not a bad idea, someone should market a small one for travellers I would surely buy one. Smoke detector is the best tool to save your life because they are very sensible and they wake you up at the beginning of a fire not in the middle of it.

Just my two satang.....

And when I wear my beige trousers, I always put 2 pairs of underpants on in case a pee stain tries to get through and become visible.

And better cover them with plastic bags as well. They get dirty easily.

[meemiathai]

Learn to use a BA and always carry it and a helmet wherever you go.

[ClaytonSeymour]

I always always always try to get a room in the lower levels of the hotel.

Reason - If a fire starts, you'll want to get out of the building as quickly as possible. This can be difficult if your room is in the upper floors. In BKK the fire service DO NOT have high level ladders like we have in the west. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ONE ?

When you make your reservations, ask for a room on the ground floor or close to it. If you're not able to do this in the reservation process, request it when you check in.

It's funny as I always request a high floor and will continue to do so; I'm not going to go paranoid overnight because of this.

Some of the suggestions in this topic appear a little OTT (this one seems reasonable enough, though in certain situations easy access to the roof may be better) - I never realized paranoia was so widespread.

[little_muppet]

It seems to be that the "Interim" Government have done everything in their power to cull the tourist industry with pathetic visa restrictions. Perhaps UK, the EC and Austrlia should impose the same visa restrictions upon Thai Nationals visiting their respective countries. As for the hotel blaze, it was a sad affair and lucky no one was killed; this is obviously an Indicator to anyone visiting Thailand to stay in International standard hotels who are are required to maintain strict fire and safety measures as opposed to a Thai owned hotel that was marvellous when it was built but has had no upgrades in decades (familiar ?)

[Payboy]

wonder what all those steyr mini fire trucks are up to these days....

[Tony Clifton]

wonder what all those steyr mini fire trucks are up to these days....

Does it matter how mini the trucks are when there are way too many areas that remain inaccessible in case of fire.

Someone may have heard "city cramming" instead of "planning".

[Basil B]

Injuries to tourists are mentioned, but nothing about the hotel staff? Were they not involved in attempting rescues or tackling the blaze?

I think the Thai translation for "evacuate" or "abandon ship" is "Follow Me"

[No beleeeeve!]

Did anyone notice in the first picture of this thread the guy with the girl standing on the ledge looks like he is wearing white panties over a pair of black speedo shorts?

How do I notice these things?!?!?!?! Hahahaha...maybe someone already wrote about it.

[UnknownPoster]

wonder what all those steyr mini fire trucks are up to these days....

Does it matter how mini the trucks are when there are way too many areas that remain inaccessible in case of fire.

Someone may have heard "city cramming" instead of "planning".

The fire marshall shoud try to navigate a fire truck onto Patpong Soi some evening.

THAT area is a disaster waiting to happen.

There must be some regulations about keeping areas fire truck accessible but as usuall, the fire marshall is probably lining his pockets to look the other way.

[jackspratt]

It seems to be that the "Interim" Government have done everything in their power to cull the tourist industry with pathetic visa restrictions. Perhaps UK, the EC and Austrlia should impose the same visa restrictions upon Thai Nationals visiting their respective countries. (familiar ?)

And just how have they culled the "tourist industry". Has the government stopped giving 30 day entry stamps on arrival for qualifying countries? For those not qualifying, have they stopped giving visa on arrival stamps?

Or is it the long term residents who pretend to be tourists, and look for visa free entry after entry, who are disadvantaged?

Australia has incredibly tight visa restrictions on Thai nationals wishing to visit.

[peter991]

Dozen injured in luxury hotel blaze

At least 12 guests, including one Australian, has been injured after a fire broke out at the Mandarin Hotel in Bangkok last week with the incident now being investigated after guests complained they heard no fire alarm.

The blaze apparently started after midnight and took three hours to extinguish causing extensive damage to the 30 year old building has led to an investigation after initial reports claimed fire alarms were faulty and the hotel had no sprinkler system installed.

Hotel management maintains the alarms on all 14 floors of the building were fully functional at the time of the blaze, and said some guests may have thought the alarms were faulty because most were asleep when the fire broke out.

Note to self: Be aware of silent fire alarms in Bangkok Hotels.

Frequented by both Asian and Australian tourists, the hotel had around 400 guests trapped after the fire, which started in a ground-floor café, spread quickly to the other floors.

Deputy Bangkok Governor Bannasopit Mekvichai and Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin both led teams to investigate and assess damage and found the fire’s alarm and smoke detection systems in place, but no sprinkler system had been installed.

Further investigations are being carried out into guests’ claims that they had not heard any alarms and that the evacuation was badly managed.

Peter

[TAWP]

Maybe the alarms only rang once, for 2 seconds...would explain why someone sleeping would miss it.

[Bagwan]

You might recall that our civilizations took centuries to learn in safety and standards what we are expecting the Thais to take as a given today. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. 1 or 2 generations ago 90% of all these people were poor farmers!

What stuff and nonsense. Europeans were the pioneers in most matters technical. Lessons were learned as time went by and then promptly adopted into common practice. What you are spouting seems to be that the Thais should reinvent the wheel. All they have to do is to go to a first world country, ask questions, learn, absorb and then come back to LoS and implement. Hiring a foreign qualified health and safety expert might pay dividends.

Thais cannot see a corner without cutting it. Their whole attitude is predicated on doing things for minimal cost and greatest return - without any social conscience.