Live Fish In A Basket At The Local Market

[Maigo6]

Welcome to our planet - I hope you enoy your stay.

I think you put your views across very well.

Anyway, I had Chicken and chips tonight, Smoked Chicken, so it was already cooked when I bought it, very tasty.

It don't taste the same when I see the chicken taken, I hear squark, then 30 Mins later I have a chicken leg.

I dunno chaps, I kinda feel sorry for the chickens, maybe I watched ' Chicken Run ' too many times.

[BADBRAD]

At the market, I saw those oval shaped fish weighing maybe a pound. Then I noticed some were still alive!

Don't Buddhists try to minimise the pain they cause? Or do they think it will be better for their karma if they do nothing like actively kill the fish? ** Isn't there a way to slaughter these fish, or do the customers demand this proof of "freshness"? And I thought they would die quickly - not sure how long they have been in the basket in the direct sun light, but it might have been over an hour

On a street corner in Ha Noi I saw an old lady with a basket of live fish. When a customer came and selected a fish she brushed the scales off with a wire brush and then gutted them while still alive. Fresh!!!!

[Heng]

This thread has got me in the mood for seafood. Thumbs down to a few crabs and perhaps a grouper in the 'you pick it we cook it' aquariums tomorrow evening I think....

[CarlBkk]

I'm one of these hypocrites that eat meat but would be a vegetarian if I had to see it being killed or kill it myself. Nevertheless, I believe in keeping/killing food humanely and unfortunately some countries (Asia especially) don't care enough about the feelings of animals. It doesn't take a huge effort or expense to knock an animal out before killing it.

I've seen fish outside Central World being skewered alive before being put straight on the grill.

I've seen a chicken left in a sealed plastic bag outside a house in Krabi (because the guy obviously didn't want to kill it another way).

Fish at Seafood etc. are deep-fried whole...I doubt they're knocked out first.

I've seen pigs crammed into a truck in blistering hot weather, frothing, being taken to the slaughterhouse in Trat.

I've seen 2 trucks full of caged dogs being taken to god knows where in the middle of the night up in Mukdahan (which prompted me to write to the Nation).

Don't even ask what I've seen in the Philippines...

Maigo, in a morbid way I'm curious to know what you experienced in a slaughterhouse..only because such places are so hidden away and non-described to the consumer, we kind of expect them to be quick painless places nowadays (well, in the West).

If I question the wellbeing of crab or fish that my wife is eating, she feels sad and then regrets eating it. Like me, if she sees the crab or fish alive first or suffering in the heat, she knows it goes on everywhere and it's hard to stop, but she certainly won't order it. If we plan on eating crab she'll request it be "chopped" before putting it into boiling water (quicker, less painful?). You've gotta be a hard-hearted person to kill an animal or not care about it suffering.

[Neeranam]

I used to gaff sand sharks occasionally when deep sea fishing......they would scream, a heart piercing soulful scream.

Fish feel.

I hope you don't come back as a small fish in the afterlife...................................

A shark isn't a normal fish.

Why do people eat pigs but not dolphins?

[meemiathai]

I've heard before that many Thais & other Asians consider fish a significantly lower form of life than anything on land. I even remember reading in one Buddhist scheme of reincarnation (can't remember which school of Buddhism) that all sea creatures are lower in the hierarchy than insects.

On a different angle, if you're going to eat meat, I think it's more honest & aware (and so in a sense maybe more Buddhist?) to kill the animal yourself. When you buy a dead piece of meat, it's easy to ignore the violence & suffering that led up to its appearance in your shopping basket or on your plate. When you kill the creature yourself, you are more likely to have an awareness of this suffering. As for skinning frogs alive, I guess that's a different story.

If I remember it correctly, they chop the heads off first before skinning them. I don't think it is really that cruel. The skin is not eatable.

[Suszzy]

I always find it a bit bizarre when people question "Don't Buddhists...?" this or that. Ignoring the fact that there are even older influences on Thai society than Buddhism, people have to live in the real world and unless you expect them all to take the vows, the practicalities of life simply mean that some things have to give.

i couldn't agree more!!

[Heng]

Why do people eat pigs but not dolphins?

Not dolphins, but dolphin fish hits the spot. mmm... mahi mahi.

[phibunmike]

Never seen a skinned frog....why do they skin them...you can eat the skin and if you don't want to eat it it peels off really easy when cooked I think although I just eat it.

Thais don't seem to worry too much about needless suffering of small animals...I complain to my wife quite often about why she is leaving some crabs in a bucket in the sun for days at a time...to her its just fishing bait.

The funny thing is, in the markets around here, you can buy bags of frog skins. Not much meat on those!

The thing about not killing something yourself seems a cop out to westerners, but seems to appease Thai Buddhist thinking. I personally have difficulty understanding how it is better to leave a fish to die slowly than to kill it quickly.

edit> typo

Edited September 6, 2007 by phibunmike

[lazeeboy]

At the market, I saw those oval shaped fish weighing maybe a pound. Then I noticed some were still alive!

Don't Buddhists try to minimise the pain they cause? Or do they think it will be better for their karma if they do nothing like actively kill the fish? ** Isn't there a way to slaughter these fish, or do the customers demand this proof of "freshness"? And I thought they would die quickly - not sure how long they have been in the basket in the direct sun light, but it might have been over an hour

at least you know its fresh and you wont get sick..........

[t.s]

Relax you can't change the world. There is a reason for everything.

even this post?

I think if you are going to eat something you cant afford to be sqeamish about the fact that it once lived. simple really.

Edited September 6, 2007 by t.s

[esbobes]

At the market, I saw those oval shaped fish weighing maybe a pound. Then I noticed some were still alive!

Don't Buddhists try to minimise the pain they cause? Or do they think it will be better for their karma if they do nothing like actively kill the fish? ** Isn't there a way to slaughter these fish, or do the customers demand this proof of "freshness"? And I thought they would die quickly - not sure how long they have been in the basket in the direct sun light, but it might have been over an hour

Well only frangs think they are alive Us thai's known it is a scam these fish have beed dead for hour hours

The scam is the pan is being moved and a farang thinks the fish is moving

[Kf6vci]

Well only frangs think they are alive Us thai's known it is a scam these fish have beed dead for hour hours

The scam is the pan is being moved and a farang thinks the fish is moving

Excuse me, the fishes were in a basket and not in a frying pan. What makes you say that?!

[Heng]

Ah yes, the midget under the table 'kicking the basket' fish market scam.

[ashacat]

Why do people eat pigs but not dolphins?

Pigs are farmed. Dolphins are wild animals.

[tutsiwarrior]

the first time I got high was with disreputable individuals in Hacienda Heights, CA in 1966...we ingested some joints and Red Mountain fake wine then went to the Jack-in-the-Box where they featured 'chicken in a basket' and 'burgers in a basket'...

the 'basket' attribute indicated that it came with fries...fish in a basket to be slaughterd in horrible fashion never came to mind...

I now sit with nieces 14 and 11 y.o., peacefully cuddled up and asleep and one 13 playing a video game still in school uniform and I wonder 'would horrible death in a basket be an issue...' all depends on yer point of view, I suppose...

I dunno...probably took too much acid when I was 19...

Edited September 6, 2007 by tutsiwarrior

[toptuan]

Why do people eat pigs but not dolphins?

Pigs are farmed. Dolphins are wild animals.

So why don't we farm dolphins? Deep-fried dolphin-fingers anyone?

[Gimbo]

Why do people eat pigs but not dolphins?

Pigs are farmed. Dolphins are wild animals.

Who said people don't eat Dolphins?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Dolphin drive hunting, also called dolphin drive fishing, is a method of hunting dolphins and occasionally other small cetaceans by driving them together with boats and then usually into a bay or onto a beach. Their escape is prevented by closing off the route to the open sea or ocean with boats and nets. Dolphins are hunted this way in several places around the world. The largest number of dolphins are hunted using this method in Japan, however the practice also occurs on the Solomon Islands, the Faroe Islands and Peru. Dolphins are mostly hunted for their meat; some are captured and end up in dolphinariums."

[zzdocxx]

And now please view this important message:

http://thetravisty.com/Saturday_Night_Live...kin_Chicken.htm

[kmart]

This is pretty horrible...

Sashimi fish eaten alive alive-o!

Time real carnivores to confront their prey, face to face!

[chavy]

A freind of mine has a fish farm & canot sell dead fish to the vendors. If dead fish are in his ponds he has to get them out & bury them....this is fish farming for one of the big produce companies in Thailand. They are very strict about this sort of thing

[bkkmadness]

I used to gaff sand sharks occasionally when deep sea fishing......they would scream, a heart piercing soulful scream.

Fish feel.

I hope you don't come back as a small fish in the afterlife...................................

A shark isn't a normal fish.

Why isn't it? What's the difference between a normal fish and a shark?

[Cuban]

... but seems to appease Thai Buddhist thinking...

I think people are reading too much into the idea of Thai Buddhist thinking. The teachings of the Lord Buddha include not taking life, all life is scared so Buddhists don't eat the flesh of an animal or it's products (i'm not one so please confirm my understanding before changing your religion on my say so). Beans and dry leaves etc. Talk to any Thai about this and you find that Thai Buddhists consider that Buddha understands the situation and allows for the pig to be spit roasted and enjoyed by one and all.

In real Buddhism I understand that the stain on one's karma caused by the taking of a life lasts for seven links in the supply chain. So considering turning a pig into a sausage, the farmer gets a bit of bad karma for taking money in return for the pig's life, the slaughter man and his boss each get a dose, as does the driver and the meat factory boss for taking the lifeless lump of meat, the people making the sausages probably get a dose as does the buyer from Tesco Lotus, the store manager and employees get a bit for profiting from selling the sausages, enriched with special herbs or not. So be on the safe side and get someone else to buy them for you using their own money and your housekeeper to cook them, you might be safe just to eat them - assuming they were cooked correctly

[meemiathai]

This is pretty horrible...

Sashimi fish eaten alive alive-o!

Time real carnivores to confront their prey, face to face!

Only sick fxxks eat food like that!

It reminds me when I first learnt 30 yrs ago that monkeys' brains were being eaten when they are still alive. I actually watched it in a documentary movie. I think I understand a lot about human beings and their cruelty but this. I find it very difficult to understand how people can really eat under these circumstances. It is not like they are lions or hyhennas that they don't know how to kill them first before they eat it. It is not the actual sufferings it costs to the animals for they might probably suffer similarly regardless of what way they are being killed. It is what is going on on these peoples' minds that is bothering! Do they actually have feelings?

Sick people. These people should be sent to the Alqueida for beheading.

[uptou]

i'm just a meat eater that doesnt like to think of the meat i'm eating as being part of the whole animal.

i remember reading,the unbearable lightness of being,by milan kundera though,a great read,& a quote from it;

"mankinds true moral test,its fundamental test (which lies deeply buried from veiw),consists of its attitude towards those who are at its mercy:animals.and in that respect mankind has suffered a fundamental debacle,a debacle so fundamental that all others stem from it" milan kundera

[UdonRoy]

Hmmm doesn't seem to be many fishermen posting here.

Nothing better than doing a night fish, hopefully catching a nice cod, sole or whiting. Keeping it alive in the cooler box until you get home then gutting it and straight into the pan for breakfast. Yum yum

Same same as buying it live in the market, in fact I would never buy a dead one.

[Texpat]

Good observations Cuban

Ahhhh... plausible deniability, how tidy.

Evidently Lord Buddah doesn't have the eye in the sky that the Christian God has. (He sees you when you're sleeping, He knows when you're awake~~~)

In the west we call this hypocricy. "It's bad to kill animals, so you do it -- medium well please."

[pgs]

the most shocking thing ive seen in the market is live skinned frogs. put bhuddism next to that.

i believe you can tell if a fish is fresh by it not smelling too fishy & a lack of sunken eyes.

I was in a Market in Ubon and I bought a Bucket of baby frogs, I was taking them to a big resevoir to let them go, the people in the market thought I was nuts buying frogs with no intention of eating them.

Only 30 Baht per Bucket.

I would do much the same. Mother breeds the green tree frogs.

[batami]

If the OP has a problem with live fish in the market there is an easy answer - buy the fish, walk to the nearest river and release them. The reward for this is a dose of good karma and god (sorry freudian slip - good) luck.

I was with a Thai family some months back on a Making Merit day and (then) i didn't figure out why they bought half a dozen cafish other than to eat. These things were in a bag in the car as we drove to the temple and they accompanied us to the monk. Then some short while later they were taken to a nearby lake and released ... blessed and happy. I was told of the good karma story then.........

This weekend, my girlfriend bought a large bag of eels at the market and released them into the river. Why eels? asked me. "Because i don't like eels" was the answer -- the logic of this strange exchange goes like this -- if you release a fish into the water it swims away and is happy - if later you eat the same kind of fish you might just (!!) be eating the friendly ones you let go... so you have decieved it and it thought it was happy until you came back ........so better not to eat eels ................ but as she doesn't like the idea of eating eels both she and the fish are on good ground - or in good water... whatever!

And, just for good measure I also put a couple of fish into the river - but as I have no idea what kind they were I can eat any fish with a clear concience

[meemiathai]

If the OP has a problem with live fish in the market there is an easy answer - buy the fish, walk to the nearest river and release them. The reward for this is a dose of good karma and god (sorry freudian slip - good) luck.

I was with a Thai family some months back on a Making Merit day and (then) i didn't figure out why they bought half a dozen cafish other than to eat. These things were in a bag in the car as we drove to the temple and they accompanied us to the monk. Then some short while later they were taken to a nearby lake and released ... blessed and happy. I was told of the good karma story then.........

This weekend, my girlfriend bought a large bag of eels at the market and released them into the river. Why eels? asked me. "Because i don't like eels" was the answer -- the logic of this strange exchange goes like this -- if you release a fish into the water it swims away and is happy - if later you eat the same kind of fish you might just (!!) be eating the friendly ones you let go... so you have decieved it and it thought it was happy until you came back ........so better not to eat eels ................ but as she doesn't like the idea of eating eels both she and the fish are on good ground - or in good water... whatever!

And, just for good measure I also put a couple of fish into the river - but as I have no idea what kind they were I can eat any fish with a clear concience

I don't think you get the point of the OP. The point is not about you eating the fish or not. It is about why not create less sufferings when you can. And my answer to the OP is, sorry for a late one, "convenience".

And for setting free fish and birds, it is just hypocrisy, or at least unconscious hypocrisy(not criticizing). It does not help the whole picture at all. It does no help to prevent cruelty towards animals thence reducing sufferings.