Baht Bus Fare - The Real Story

[cubes2]

Nice to see one member has turned this thread into somthing else.

[ZZZ]

This is over my head, but thanks for the insight. I don't even really care about race. Some will say ethnic Thais are a race, others will not. But they are clearly an identifiable group of people with similar racial characteristics. I agree baht bus drivers make snap racial decisions, an Indonesian or Filipino could pass as a Thai. Different people are treated differently based on their racial appearance, which I have explained before meets the definition of racism. To me, people are people. I feel warmth towards good people of all races. However, the topic we are talking about is baht bus fares. The drivers make decisions based on race or physical appearance that gives clues about race, or whatever you like to call it. Please at least admit that fact. These race based things are messy and there are lots of exceptions. Look at South Africa under apartheid, how they dealt with Indians and mulatos. My point is all of this unpleasant messiness over race is just not needed. If we were all treated the same, no matter what our racial appearance, then there are no debates about whether such and such a practice is racism.

The drivers do not have a fixed fare schedule for different races. They DO make decisions based on physical appearance, decisions on how much they think they can charge. They run a private business and are only limited by the maximum charge set by LTA. If they charge 5 or 10 Baht is up to them.

If a non local Thai get of the bus and ask the driver what the fare is he will NOT say 5Baht if he think he can get away with asking for 10 or 20Baht.

The Baht bus drivers are only interested in making as much money as possible, they could not care less who they charged the most.

[Jingthing]

They run a private business and are only limited by the maximum charge set by LTA. If they charge 5 or 10 Baht is up to them.

Agreed. Although they are supposed to follow the rules of the baht bus collective so they are not strictly private. They make these decisions based on race. BTW, they often demand 20 baht at the end of a long ride to farangs even though in violation of baht bus mafia rules (which states max bus fare is 10 baht).

Now we are all in agreement that the fare decisions are based on racial appearance. The disagreement seems to be over whether that is racism or not. It clearly is based on the definition of racism, different treatment based on your race. The confusion seems to be whether this racism is justified and really quite OK. How can racism be OK?

It seems my position has confused some people. I am not saying don't pay the racist fares. I am saying do pay the higher fares because the baht bus collective is a proven violent mafia and you are risking bodily harm by not paying the race premium. I suggest this for the same reason that when a mugger approaches you with a weapon it is best to give him your money to avoid violence. That doesn't make the baht bus mafia or the mugger correct or good people. It makes you smart for avoiding violence. We are in a foreign country and it is not our legal role to change things. We have to accept them and go with the flow, or leave. However, that doesn't mean that we need to go so far as to take the side or make up excuses for the various kinds of muggers.

Edited September 10, 2007 by Jingthing

[Basil B]

...Who said I can't afford the extra 5 baht (which actually for me adds up to about 1000 dollars a year)?

Why not invest in a good pair of walking shoes and save another $1000 a year...

BB

[Jingthing]

...Who said I can't afford the extra 5 baht (which actually for me adds up to about 1000 dollars a year)?

Why not invest in a good pair of walking shoes and save another $1000 a year...

BB

Because it is not practical to go the long distances I go by walking and there are no decent sidewalks in Thailand. I do walk alot, good exercise, but try walking one time between Pattaya and Jomtien and almost get run over motos on the side paths (such that exist) and you aren't likely to try that again. I was mistaken about the 1000 dollar cost, not that much.

Edited September 10, 2007 by Jingthing

[Cuban]

by the way... what exactly is a baht bus?

I'll bring one up to you for a shopping trip - let's see how far we can go for 5 Baht, maybe the gate ?

I see them as a way of getting rid of small change and prevention of getting wet.

[Naam]

by the way... what exactly is a baht bus?

I'll bring one up to you for a shopping trip - let's see how far we can go for 5 Baht, maybe the gate ?

I see them as a way of getting rid of small change and prevention of getting wet.

YIKES! you mean you are one of those godzillionaires who pay without shame 10 or even 20Baht to the racists for a ride?

[Cuban]

...you are one of those godzillionaires who pay without shame 10 Baht....

I have been known to splash out 10 Baht in one Baht coins, even if they are not taped together it provokes a grunt like comment of disgust, almost Klingon in nature (!). I am saving up 25 and 50 Satang coins for the day that I can pay a driver in a "golden" shower of coinage.

...and then run away.

[soundman]

...you are one of those godzillionaires who pay without shame 10 Baht....

I have been known to splash out 10 Baht in one Baht coins, even if they are not taped together it provokes a grunt like comment of disgust, almost Klingon in nature (!). I am saving up 25 and 50 Satang coins for the day that I can pay a driver in a "golden" shower of coinage.

...and then run away.

Now that would be funny!

[suiging]

Nope.

A " Golden Shower " is never funny.

[percy2]

Prozac is available at most pharmacies

I thought discussion of illegal activities was not allowed on TV

Prozac , Valium , Viagra , Cialis etc. are only legally available with a doctors prescription from clinics and hospitals.

If you buy from a pharmacy both you and they are breaking the law with potentially serious results.

Cheers

[wpcoe]

Who said I can't afford the extra 5 baht (which actually for me adds up to about 1000 dollars a year)?

The first time you wrote that I thought it was a typo.

US$1000 is about B34,000.

B34,000/year divided by 365 days/year = B93.15/day

B93.15/day divided by B5/ride = over 18 rides per day, day in day out, rain or shine.

Do you REALLY ride the baht buses that often?

[soundman]

Who said I can't afford the extra 5 baht (which actually for me adds up to about 1000 dollars a year)?

The first time you wrote that I thought it was a typo.

US$1000 is about B34,000.

B34,000/year divided by 365 days/year = B93.15/day

B93.15/day divided by B5/ride = over 18 rides per day, day in day out, rain or shine.

Do you REALLY ride the baht buses that often?

At 10B per ride, taking your missus & children with you & a few long rides can actually make that figure semi belieavable.

[moo9]

Prozac is available at most pharmacies

I thought discussion of illegal activities was not allowed on TV

Prozac , Valium , Viagra , Cialis etc. are only legally available with a doctors prescription from clinics and hospitals.

If you buy from a pharmacy both you and they are breaking the law with potentially serious results.

Cheers

Prozac...what is that? Sounds like the Czech version of Viagra lol

[cobra]

...Who said I can't afford the extra 5 baht (which actually for me adds up to about 1000 dollars a year)?

Why not invest in a good pair of walking shoes and save another $1000 a year... BB

... I was mistaken about the 1000 dollar cost, not that much.

Not that much indeed, 10b fare comes out ~ 33 cents, if you took the bus everyday for a year, the extra 5b would cost you ~$58, (though you said you only take the baht bus occasionally to have your BP checked),

I forgot why your upset again, your not Thai ?, racism exists in another country ?, your being penalized for having more money than most Thai's ever will ?

[tropo]

Look at South Africa under apartheid, how they dealt with Indians and mulatos.

It was interesting for you to mention the South African apartheid system because I lived there for 6 years in the 70's under that system. This is one reason why I find it annoying for people to unnecessarily bring it up in discussions, particularly over 5 baht fare descrepancies.

I've never heard the term "Mulatto" used there. I think that is a Spanish term. "Coloreds" was the standard term used for mixed race.

Edited September 10, 2007 by tropo

[Jingthing]

Look at South Africa under apartheid, how they dealt with Indians and mulatos.

It was interesting for you to mention the South African apartheid system because I lived there for 6 years in the 70's under that system. This is one reason why I find it annoying for people to unnecessarily bring it up in discussions, particularly over 5 baht fare descrepancies.

I've never heard the term "Mulatto" used there. I think that is a Spanish term. "Coloreds" was the standard term used for mixed race.

Thanks so much for taking my short mention of South Africa totally out of its context! Sure made me look bad, but it really was a cheap trick.

If you saying the baht bus racism is a trivial manifestation of racism compared to the many more serious ones in the world, I agree. Count me firmly in the camp who doesn't like any racism, trivial or serious, rather than the camp trying to make excuses for it,

Edited September 10, 2007 by Jingthing

[JR Texas]

Look at South Africa under apartheid, how they dealt with Indians and mulatos.

It was interesting for you to mention the South African apartheid system because I lived there for 6 years in the 70's under that system. This is one reason why I find it annoying for people to unnecessarily bring it up in discussions, particularly over 5 baht fare descrepancies.

I've never heard the term "Mulatto" used there. I think that is a Spanish term. "Coloreds" was the standard term used for mixed race.

Thanks so much for taking my short mention of South Africa totally out of its context! Sure made me look bad, but it really was a cheap trick.

If you saying the baht bus racism is a trivial manifestation of racism compared to the many more serious ones in the world, I agree. Count me firmly in the camp who doesn't like any racism, trivial or serious, rather than the camp trying to make excuses for it,

About the OP's story........I can sympathize. I lived in Jomtien-Pattaya for several years and am convinced that the Baht Bus drivers are the worst of the worst in Thailand. They tried to cheat me each day....trying to charge me 10 or more baht for a 5 baht ride. I wish something could be done about them. The Baht Bus drivers where I live now, out in Isan, do not behave the same way. Not once have I felt cheated. Very different from Pattaya-Jomtien.

[elkangorito]

I don't know what all the fuss is about! When I first arrived in Thailand, it didn't take me long to realise that 20 Baht was too much to pay for a short ride. I have noticed the fare schedule posted in the back of some of the songtaews, which gave me the impression that 10 Baht would solve my problem. So now, I pay 10 Baht. Actually, from where I live (Baan Amphur) to Pattaya is about a 12km trip, for which I pay 25 Baht - happily.

Only on one occasion did I spit the dummy. I wanted to go from my residence to the local 7-11, which is about 700 metres away, so I caught the Songtaew. I paid the driver 10 Baht, which promptly sent him into a flying rage. After saying "Mai kow jai" a couple of times, I realised he wanted 11 Baht. Can you believe this? Well, since he screamed at me, I screamed that he was a thief & I hoped that his chooks would turn into emus & kick his dunny down, and walked off.

Strangely, this driver is now quite polite to me.

[pattyboy]

...so i gave the guy b5 and he blew up (and so did my blood pressure). i should have gave him b10 so as to not cause the conflict - but being here 10 yrs and paying this, its just natural.

Let me get this right -- although we had rather large increase in petrol prices and there's been a fairly high rate of inflation overall in Thailand, you expect the 5 baht fare to never go up? That just doesn't seem very realistic to me. Perhaps you should be grateful that you've been able to get such cheap transportation around Pattaya for so many years.

I also don't like two-tier pricing, but it's the reality of living in Thailand, and I don't think there's much we can do about it.

[Cuban]

Prices were not mentioned in detail, but the BB saga was covered on local TV again last night.

Ripping off tourists and bad driving.

It's on TV (the other one) must be true !

[pattyboy]

It's on TV (the other one) must be true !

I really hope you're kidding when you say that. You are kidding, right?

[Furbie]

This is over my head, but thanks for the insight. I don't even really care about race. Some will say ethnic Thais are a race, others will not. But they are clearly an identifiable group of people with similar racial characteristics. I agree baht bus drivers make snap racial decisions, an Indonesian or Filipino could pass as a Thai. Different people are treated differently based on their racial appearance, which I have explained before meets the definition of racism. To me, people are people. I feel warmth towards good people of all races. However, the topic we are talking about is baht bus fares. The drivers make decisions based on race or physical appearance that gives clues about race, or whatever you like to call it. Please at least admit that fact. These race based things are messy and there are lots of exceptions. Look at South Africa under apartheid, how they dealt with Indians and mulatos. My point is all of this unpleasant messiness over race is just not needed. If we were all treated the same, no matter what our racial appearance, then there are no debates about whether such and such a practice is racism.

The drivers do not have a fixed fare schedule for different races. They DO make decisions based on physical appearance, decisions on how much they think they can charge. They run a private business and are only limited by the maximum charge set by LTA. If they charge 5 or 10 Baht is up to them.

If a non local Thai get of the bus and ask the driver what the fare is he will NOT say 5Baht if he think he can get away with asking for 10 or 20Baht.

The Baht bus drivers are only interested in making as much money as possible, they could not care less who they charged the most.

For what its worth, I have a friend who is an exec secretary for a western company and she lives in Pattaya. She makes about 42k baht per month. She pays 5 baht a ride, and will gladly go toe to toe with any driver trying to charge her 10baht - she says it happens about once a week, and every time she has a bag (she hates Pattaya and comes up to BKK very often). If its about the money, she doesn't need it; but somehow, I doubt its about the principal.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Furbie

[esbobes]

This drives make me happy to see Farangs go nuts over 5 baht

And than they tell you how rich they are.

Thay should see a nut Doctor.

Is a Taxi in EU or America 5 baht

Go home.

[soundman]

Its not whether the fare is 5B, 50B or 500B.

The point is the same fare, for the same route for everybody who uses the service.

[Naam]

This drives make me happy to see Farangs go nuts over 5 baht

And than they tell you how rich they are.

Thay should see a nut Doctor.

Is a Taxi in EU or America 5 baht

Go home.

:D :D

[Naam]

The point is the same fare, for the same route for everybody who uses the service.

sure! that's why nearly all countries worldwide charge a flat amount of income tax whether a person has an income of 1,000 or 100 million dollars per annum. the taxmen are fair and do it because a rich chap uses the same services as a poor guy does... or most probably much less. wouldn't it be extremely unfair if some people had to pay more taxes because they make more money?

[Naam]

The point is...

that the discussion 5 Baht or 10 Baht is as superfluous as the uterus of a nun who vowed to keep eternal celibacy

[tropo]

The point is the same fare, for the same route for everybody who uses the service.

sure! that's why nearly all countries worldwide charge a flat amount of income tax whether a person has an income of 1,000 or 100 million dollars per annum. the taxmen are fair and do it because a rich chap uses the same services as a poor guy does... or most probably much less. wouldn't it be extremely unfair if some people had to pay more taxes because they make more money?

I'm not sure about the rest of the world, so I'll stick to what I know. In Australia and New Zealand you pay a higher percentage of tax if your income is higher. I'd be surprised if this "tax bracket" system was only practiced in these 2 countries.

Edited September 11, 2007 by tropo

[soundman]

The point is the same fare, for the same route for everybody who uses the service.

sure! that's why nearly all countries worldwide charge a flat amount of income tax whether a person has an income of 1,000 or 100 million dollars per annum. the taxmen are fair and do it because a rich chap uses the same services as a poor guy does... or most probably much less. wouldn't it be extremely unfair if some people had to pay more taxes because they make more money?

Are you proposing a "means" test to board a baht bus?

Re: countries - Tropo has answered that quite correctly.