People Leaving Due To Visa Restriction

[Firefan]

A while back I checked up on how many of my friends/acquaintances were affected by stricter visa rules/enforcement and at that time 1 friend left for brighter shores due to that.

Checking up now I have seen quite a few more. Total of 5 actually. 2 were living of their investments overseas(day traders), 1 were married to Thai but had trouble getting the 40k proof of income despite having income from share in a biz overseas, 1 had non-Thai related internet biz and final one was an English teacher where the school did not want to supply WP Etc.

Of the "established" expats I know (WP/company Etc.) none have had to leave as bigger businesses not having trouble abiding by the stricter rules for extension based on biz.

Any of you having friends/acquaintances that were affected or even chose to leave?

Cheers!

[Ray1167]

anybody considering leaving would be guilty of PREMATURE EVACUATION.

Bloody rules change all the time .

[tropo]

I'll be hanging around for the time being on the TV/30 day-stamp combo, but if anything changes for the worse, I'll be packing up too. Right now it's costing over $2000 per annum on visas/visa runs for my GF and I to stay.

I have less than 2 years to wait in order to qualify for a retirement visa, but since they've now changed the rules on dependents staying, that will no longer be possible.

We've had a pleasant stay in Thailand, but moving will just be another adventure.

Edited September 13, 2007 by tropo

[pascharay]

Many of my freinds have left, but mostly due to financial difficulties as their overseas investments earn less money in the current economic climate. Still others are leaving becasue of the visa restrictions and many not coming because the welcome mat appears a little frayed.

But where else to go?

Taht's the big question.

Lbya has nice beaches.

[JR Texas]

Many of my freinds have left, but mostly due to financial difficulties as their overseas investments earn less money in the current economic climate. Still others are leaving becasue of the visa restrictions and many not coming because the welcome mat appears a little frayed.

But where else to go?

Taht's the big question.

Lbya has nice beaches.

One friend left and took his business to The Philippines (small business that was profitable but just became tired of the endless rule changes and uncertainty and feeling unwanted).....another took his business to Cambodia for similar reasons............a handful of my friends want to leave and go to the Philippines but have yet to do so.

I will almost certainly be leaving soon, giving up my work permit voluntarily (working as a professor) and moving to either Vietnam, Philippines or Cambodia. After that Thailand will be a place to visit.....but I think I have just about had enough of the visa/business rules and xenophobia. I do not see a bright future for Thailand and other countries in the region appear to be doing much better in many areas.

Where else to go? Vietnam, Philippines, Cambodia, China.......maybe even Malaysia. Lots of alternatives to this place in the region and surely others across the big pond like Panama and Ecuador.

[lazeeboy]

Many of my freinds have left, but mostly due to financial difficulties as their overseas investments earn less money in the current economic climate. Still others are leaving becasue of the visa restrictions and many not coming because the welcome mat appears a little frayed.

But where else to go?

Taht's the big question.

Lbya has nice beaches.

One friend left and took his business to The Philippines (small business that was profitable but just became tired of the endless rule changes and uncertainty and feeling unwanted).....another took his business to Cambodia for similar reasons............a handful of my friends want to leave and go to the Philippines but have yet to do so.

I will almost certainly be leaving soon, giving up my work permit voluntarily (working as a professor) and moving to either Vietnam, Philippines or Cambodia. After that Thailand will be a place to visit.....but I think I have just about had enough of the visa/business rules and xenophobia. I do not see a bright future for Thailand and other countries in the region appear to be doing much better in many areas.

Where else to go? Vietnam, Philippines, Cambodia, China.......maybe even Malaysia. Lots of alternatives to this place in the region and surely others across the big pond like Panama and Ecuador.

this happens every few years ,change in the visa rules and some people cant handle it ,others are always coming to replace them ,i've had 3or 4 freinds leave recently due to this ,its getting a bit lonely down here at the moment

[jumnien]

For every one that leaves, four come in to take their place.

[spot]

I don't know any that have left, but I know a handful who have said that they would not consider Thailand anymore for retirement.

They have been visiting Thailand for years with their families, but now see it as an unstable place to invest any of their money, or make long term plans in. They don't feel very welcome, and have even stopped using Thailand as a holiday destination.

[calibanjr.]

anybody considering leaving would be guilty of PREMATURE EVACUATION.

Bloody rules change all the time .

True dat, but the trend is decidedly in the tightening direction.

[johnh101]

For every one that leaves, four come in to take their place.

That is absolute Crap !

Have you sen the latest TAT figures................obviously not.

[The Professor]

I know a guy on 2 years overstay but I dont think visa rules have anything to do with it

[tropo]

For every one that leaves, four come in to take their place.

That is absolute Crap !

Have you sen the latest TAT figures................obviously not.

Yes, it's definitely nonsense.

I took a visa run to Ban Laem this month. It was my first border run since August 06, and it was very quiet. If people aren't leaving, where have they gone? It's not like they all report on ThaiVisa.com on their way out.

[ttthailand]

Have a few friends who use to come on holiday all the time but have stopped. They liked Pattaya when it was going all night and everyone was friendly. They spent tons of cash and stayed at the best hotels so they were exactly the type TAT wanted. I guess even the big spenders like to party.

Not sure if any of the long term people I know have packed up and relocated. I have been out of the country for a few months due to visa problems so perhaps some are gone. As I said, I needed to leave due to visa problems so after 13 years living in Thailand, WP and owner of international company , I have decided to start looking around. I was waiting to turn 50 so I would not have these problems but since I have, this month, I really don't care to stay any longer. I think I have lost my love for this country. It just does not feel like home. Sad but true. I will be in and out a few more times to get my things together and then be on my way. I will be sure to drop you all a line on the final day.

[richard10365]

For every one that leaves, four come in to take their place.

That is absolute Crap !

Have you sen the latest TAT figures................obviously not.

Yes, it's definitely nonsense.

I took a visa run to Ban Laem this month. It was my first border run since August 06, and it was very quiet. If people aren't leaving, where have they gone? It's not like they all report on ThaiVisa.com on their way out.

Maybe they have a aquired a visa where they don't need to do visa runs anymore.

[cali4995]

For the tourist hub Chonburi province is supposed to be, Pattaya is

dying a slow, painful death. The only activity seems to be on walking

street, and even then, you've got to feint and weave around all

the she-males. The local Thais have taken to stealing from each

other. The attitude of the indigenous peoples is haughty at best.

I don't think this situation can be resuscitated. It's gone too far.

[wpcoe]

Maybe they have a aquired a visa where they don't need to do visa runs anymore.

A variation of that is that they have a visa that only requires visa runs every 90 days, versus using visa-waiver stamps which needed a visa run every 30 days. They might still need visa runs, but 1/3 the frequency as before.

[El Taco Loco]

The Thai apologists in this or other forums will forever deny that this country is sinking into a world of xenophobia, greed and corruption. So let's stop trying to convince them of otherwise.

I do know of 3 honest, hardworking farangs, with families, leaving Thailand. Within a 3 block radius of my village. Those are the only statistics I can offer you.

The stares, snares, double pricing, corruption, visa rules that are not followed from govt. office to govt. office, insencere smiles... etc etc. It gets old.

I came here to escape the rat race. But being treated like a rat, that is a different matter altogether.

[jumnien]

Bye bye, have a good flight home!

[brahmburgers]

of my small circle of farang friends up here in northernmost area , most have left - for many of the same reasons mentioned herein; visa restrictions and colder attitude of Thai higher-ups.

for me as a single guy over 50, I can stick it out for the time being. I've put in roots, literally, having planted hundreds of fruit and nut trees. Plus, money's tight - so that limits my options. Optimumly, I'd like to be based here, but spend lots of time traveling regionally.

[thedi]

I don't know anyone who left.

But I have contact through other forums with several Germans, Austrians and Swiss - all with a Thai wife - who thought they will retire to Thailand within a view years. Many have changed this plan. Some think they will just visit Thailand for some time each year - mostly to avoid the winter in Europe. There are several reasons:

Money related: Pensions tend to be cut down in EU. The currency exchange rate (to the CHF) has changed about 15% within the last year.

Visa related: The uncertainty of the visa situation was considered a minor problem at the age of 40+, but is now, at 60+, a drawback. Older people want a save and stable situation. If they sell up everything in EU and move here, they want a legal right to stay here, not a temporary permission, extended year by year.

Health and social related: some of them are not so healthy any more and feel uncertain to move to a country where they can not speak the language. The main concern is communication with doctors. Many are afraid that they will miss their social circle and may not find a replacement in Thailand; this all the more, as there is more and more negative talk about Thailand in forums: they are afraid that their buddies that they know from the forums will change their mind too, and not move to Thailand for retirement.

Many of this people have property in Thailand, mostly a house in a Moo Ban near Pattaya but others have a house in the village of their wife. This investments is considered a loss by most of them. This leads to a grudge and a negative attitude against Thailand. Many of them feel cheated by 'the Thais'. It is not clear, what exactly is meant by 'the Thais': individuals, rules or the government.

Regards

Thedi

[LivinginKata]

Here on Phuket I have many customers, guests, and friends. I have never met anyone leaving Thailand due to recent Visa restrictions. Sure, a lot of moans & groans at first, but all have settled into the new requirements. In many case they waste less days border crossing as they now have 60 day tourist visa and even 90 day non-imm visas.

[Briggsy]

I think this thread has approached the topic from the wrong angle. I don't know anyone who has left specifically because of visa restrictions. If you want to stay in Thailand, it is very simple. Just do the TV + 90 combo.

I do know many people who have left because of business regulations and restrictions on foreigners. These laws and regulations include not being able to own a property; not being able to own a business; restriction on occupation due to WP laws; restriction on capital moving in and out of the country; enforcement of petty, pointless and time-consuming rules on businesses aimed at extracting bribes.

These are in addition to low salaries, a poor education system and bad television!

But if I come back to my original point and the point of the thread I do not believe many people have left Thailand purely because of visa restrictions. It is easy to get sucked into visa hysteria. Business considerations are usually more pertinent. The visa restrictions are only a contributing factor at the most.

[ilyushin]

Some friends of mine have left after 20+ years mostly because of the visa troubles and issues surrounding their work. There are far more non-Thais in Thailand now so the visa laws will be changing. All these 30 day returning refugees are making it more difficult for the long term and legal immigrants.

Most of my ole buddies still have property ( condo, house, etc...) in Thailand, but have gone to work in other places depending on their profession. Many are just feed up with the entire system.

Personally, I believe the visa troubles has more to do with the nationality than the job, money and education.

Edited September 15, 2007 by ilyushin

[LivinLOS]

One of my best buds packed it in this weekend.. After 12 or 13 years here..

Not so much visa related (tho it was in part) but more the local attitudes, biz scene, rip offs, etc.

But as someone else said.. 4 more have arrived.. I dont see the numbers declining where I am, kinda wish some of them would stop arriving

What I do see tho is the ones arriving are not jumping into the investment and property scene like they ere 2 - 4 years ago, they are staying more transient and less commited.. And as much as people (ones who already own) wont admit it, property prices are free falling, nothing is selling, properties marked down from 10m to 4m in a year !!

[samran]

I too don't doubt that people are leaving. It is probably a combination of lack of funds (THB getting stronger), the rise in retirement funds needed, tightening on visa running regs, and the general cost of living as well as the general 'I've been Thailand-ed' out sentiment which even a rose coloured glasses wearing, thailand apologist like me feels from time to time. But of course, that is only what I hear here on TV.

But this is one end of the spectum. At the other end, higher up, I don't see change. Independent business people, doing smart things here in Thailand are doing well. More people arriving and setting up businesses and consultancies. Managed funds seeing quailty on the SET and buying like there is no tomorrow. Even amongst my circle of friends - which includes plenty of teachers - they are all still here. They hear about these visa changes, but they all seem to be chugging along as it never seems to affect them.

[britmaveric]

Don't know anyone who's leaving. Actually more seem to be on their way. I guess time will tell.

[Sateev]

For every one that leaves, four come in to take their place.

Please supply supporting evidence of your (inane) claim.

Sateev

[edit:sp]

Edited September 15, 2007 by Sateev

[Sateev]

Here on Phuket I have many customers, guests, and friends. I have never met anyone leaving Thailand due to recent Visa restrictions. Sure, a lot of moans & groans at first, but all have settled into the new requirements. In many case they waste less days border crossing as they now have 60 day tourist visa and even 90 day non-imm visas.

And Phuket is just so, well, typical..

Sateev

[PeaceBlondie]

There never were any statistics to this effect, so we don't know how many are leaving, why they leave, or how many replace them. Surely I doubt that even 1.126 arrive for every farang who leaves.

As stated, the latest change in the visa rules (or the fear of such change) can be the straw that breaks the camel's back, or it might be one more failed investment, one more broken trust, or just the unending frustrations.

I hear that my buddies from June 2003 are all still here in Chiang Mai, although I seldom see them. Can't remember exactly who has left; perhaps I'll be the first. Some realities take forever to become obvious.

[Heng]

If they really wanted to tighten things up, they'd simply make the yearly visa extensions 19,000 instead of 1,900; make the entire waiting areas of the various Suan Phlu, Chonburi, BOI visa centers open air and only open from noon to 1pm, and then set up misting fans filled with urine.

It's all the same, some are welcome, some are not. Same as before.