Cat Pregnancies And Speying

[triffid]

I have 3 cats. #1 is about 18 months old and pregnant (for the first time); #2 is female and just 5 months old; #3 is male and brother of #2. I am not experienced with cats as pets and would appreciate advice on the following from anyone with experience, knowledge or expertize.

Regarding #1.

After the birth I want her to have one more litter (by another male) and then I intend to have her operated on.

Questions: Is every pregnancy a health burden in any way? If so, I won't put her through the second pregnancy (This is my favourite cat). If not, should I aim to get her pregnant again (by #3) at the very next heat or allow an interval (how long) for her to recuperate?

Regarding #2

I assume on balance it is better to get it speyed asap.

Questions: Should I do it now - before she gets the first heat? Or when is it ideal? There is no difficulty in keeping her indoors and away from interested/interesting males. But of course #3, her brother, is going to be around - are they likely to mate? If so, would this necessarily be a bad thing in terms of the offspring?

Regarding #3

Is neutering necessary once both females #1 and #3 are speyed? From the point of view of its health, corpulence, nature/spiritedness?

[triffid]

I have 3 cats. #1 is about 18 months old and pregnant (for the first time); #2 is female and just 5 months old; #3 is male and brother of #2. I am not experienced with cats as pets and would appreciate advice on the following from anyone with experience, knowledge or expertize.

Regarding #1.

After the birth I want her to have one more litter (by another male) and then I intend to have her operated on.

Questions: Is every pregnancy a health burden in any way? If so, I won't put her through the second pregnancy (This is my favourite cat). If not, should I aim to get her pregnant again (by #3) at the very next heat or allow an interval (how long) for her to recuperate?

Regarding #2

I assume on balance it is better to get it speyed asap.

Questions: Should I do it now - before she gets the first heat? Or when is it ideal? There is no difficulty in keeping her indoors and away from interested/interesting males. But of course #3, her brother, is going to be around - are they likely to mate? If so, would this necessarily be a bad thing in terms of the offspring?

Regarding #3

Is neutering necessary once both females #1 and #3 are speyed? From the point of view of its health, corpulence, nature/spiritedness?

[triffid]

I have 3 cats. #1 is about 18 months old and pregnant (for the first time); #2 is female and just 5 months old; #3 is male and brother of #2. I am not experienced with cats as pets and would appreciate advice on the following from anyone with experience, knowledge or expertize.

Regarding #1.

After the birth I want her to have one more litter (by another male) and then I intend to have her operated on.

Questions: Is every pregnancy a health burden in any way? If so, I won't put her through the second pregnancy (This is my favourite cat). If not, should I aim to get her pregnant again (by #3) at the very next heat or allow an interval (how long) for her to recuperate?

Regarding #2

I assume on balance it is better to get it speyed asap.

Questions: Should I do it now - before she gets the first heat? Or when is it ideal? There is no difficulty in keeping her indoors and away from interested/interesting males. But of course #3, her brother, is going to be around - are they likely to mate? If so, would this necessarily be a bad thing in terms of the offspring?

Regarding #3

Is neutering necessary once both females #1 and #3 are speyed? From the point of view of its health, corpulence, nature/spiritedness?

Sorry for the repetition - was wanting to correct the last para which should have said "females #1 and #2"

[Priceless]

I am not a vet, so I can only offer opinions, personal experiences and some odds and ends:

Female #1: While I was still running my cattery (in the old country) I would let my female have 8-12 months between litters to recuperate. As a matter of fact, the European cat organisation FIFé, to which my national organisation belongs, only allows breeders to let a female have three litters within a two year period.

Female #2: The best time for speying is a hot topic among the "cat crowd", some say it doesn't matter, some say not before 6 months age and I say let her be in heat at least once before speying. In the US it is common to sell kittens at ~12 weeks of age, already speyed/neutered. My national organisation has been working for a ban on operations before 6 months.

Your next question concerning female #2: Yes, they are very likely to breed when she is in heat, unless you keep them physically apart. And yes, it could be bad thing to let them mate, inbreeding is a health hazard among cats, just like among humans. Cats however have no sense that it is in any way immoral with matings within the family...

Cat #3: He will probably put on a little weight after neutering. However, he will also be a happier cat. Imagine yourself "feeling the urge" for the rest of your life and never "getting any". It is as frustrating for a cat as it would be for a human. My males are neutered and happy, whereas they before would "Twist and Shout" when the urge came upon them. (Furthermore, fertile male cats tend to "spray" around the house to mark their territory and belongings. My younger male decided that his prime belonging was my g/f. When he three nights in a row had come up on her bed and sprayed, it was an easy decision to neuter him!)

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[triffid]

Thanks a lot for your replies, which I found very helpful; and since you referred to your national organization's policies, they are also authoritative enough for me.

I had just a few follow-up questions.

female #1

Waiting up to 12 months between litters will mean she will have to endure several heats in that period. Are post-litter heats as intense and troublesome as those before the first litter?

Does each litter 'age'/ 'wear out' the cat to some extent?

cat #3

Unfortunately this cat is already the fat one. Can the post-neutering added weight be cut back by cutting back on food intake or is it a biological consequence to be accepted?

[sbk]

It is not healthy for the cat to go through heat repeatedly without getting pregnant. An unbred, unspayed female can develop pyometritis, a potentially fatal uterine infection.

It is not healthy for the cat to bear litter after litter, yes it will age her.

Your male cat needs to go on a diet. Neuter him, it will make your life much easier and prolong the life of your cat.

[Priceless]

Thanks a lot for your replies, which I found very helpful; and since you referred to your national organization's policies, they are also authoritative enough for me.

I had just a few follow-up questions.

female #1

Waiting up to 12 months between litters will mean she will have to endure several heats in that period. Are post-litter heats as intense and troublesome as those before the first litter?

Does each litter 'age'/ 'wear out' the cat to some extent?

cat #3

Unfortunately this cat is already the fat one. Can the post-neutering added weight be cut back by cutting back on food intake or is it a biological consequence to be accepted?

Female #1: For a limited amount of time between planned litters, we've been using contraceptive pills (specifically for cats, as with all drugs don't try the human kind). Unfortunately I've never bought any here and don't know if they are available in Thailand. The brand I've used is called "Perlutex vet.", 5 mg tablets. The active substance is medroxyprogesteron. acet. Provided you don't keep at it for years, this treatment is reasonably risk free and probably a lot better than repeated heat periods.

Cat #3: In my experience cutting back on the food intake is usually both difficult and not very effective. Try a dietary feed instead, any well stocked pet supplies shop should have at least one brand. A lot of veterinarians will have Hill's Science Diet, which in my experience is very good (though expensive!).

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[Jet Gorgon]

Spay or neuter the kitties unless you are assured of homes for the litters.

[Priceless]

A friend of mine (also a ThaiVisa poster) suggested I should be a bit clearer, or more specific, about female cats getting in heat, so here goes:

It is not uncommon for a female to become in heat again while her kittens are only 5-6 weeks old, i.e. even before weaning. If she is allowed to breed at that time, it would mean having two litters only 14-15 weeks apart! (A cat pregnancy normally lasts for ~65 days.) This situation would almost certainly have negative effects for the mother, and possibly for the kittens of the second litter.

The conclusion of the above is that you must be very careful to avoid her breeding too soon after a litter. If you are just the tiniest bit unsure of your ability to detect whether she is coming in heat again (either because of inexperience in detecting her behaviour or unability to keep her under constant surveillance), it might be safest to either keep them physically separate or put her on the pill sooner rather than later. (Please discuss the latter approach with a veterinarian, I have always chosen physical separation).

I would also like to second Jet Gorgon's suggestion that you should not let her have kittens unless you are assured of finding good homes for the kittens. This difficulty is what has made me decide not to breed here in Thailand. Finding good homes required a major effort in my old country, even though my breed (Ragdolls) are the fourth most popular pedigree breed there. Here in Thailand the breed is virtually unknown (I only know of seven individuals, of which five are mine) so it would probably be an uphill battle. (I emphasize "good" homes, I would usually have 30-40 people interested in buying kittens from each litter of 3-6 kittens.)

Best of luck, I hope Mama cat is doing fine.

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[triffid]

Thanks for the many pieces of advice.

I think my best course for now is to have the male cat neutered soon after the pregnant one has her litter. The next operation will be the speying of the mother.

After that I'll think about what to do when about the remaining female.

I wouldn't abandon any kittens. I may well get them neutered fairly early and then keep them for myself.

The post-neutering weight of the male is going to be a problem. Cutting back on quantity isn't easy when he can/does push the other two aside and helps himself to their food. I'll have to find a way to avoid that happening. I already use Hills and Royal Canin dry food - will look for the diet versions.

Finally, I am presuming (and hoping) I can leave the pregnancy/birth entirely to nature, ie there's nothing I need to do to prepare or assist the cat.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[Sheryl]

Thanks for the many pieces of advice.

I think my best course for now is to have the male cat neutered soon after the pregnant one has her litter. The next operation will be the speying of the mother.

After that I'll think about what to do when about the remaining female.

I wouldn't abandon any kittens. I may well get them neutered fairly early and then keep them for myself.

The post-neutering weight of the male is going to be a problem. Cutting back on quantity isn't easy when he can/does push the other two aside and helps himself to their food. I'll have to find a way to avoid that happening. I already use Hills and Royal Canin dry food - will look for the diet versions.

Finally, I am presuming (and hoping) I can leave the pregnancy/birth entirely to nature, ie there's nothing I need to do to prepare or assist the cat.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Yes, Triffid, you can leave the pregnancy/birth to the Mama cat. Can try providing a secluded and secure spot for her to give birth in (like a padded basket in a closet and familiarizing her with it.. but don't be surprised if she opts for somewhere else. Don't try to move her if she does). ) As the kittens come out they'll be covered in membranes and blood, leave it to the mother cat to cleanse this (but if necessary you can gently place them near her mouth). Once the birth is completed, provide mama and babies with a nice secluded spot to stay with food, water and litter box close to hand so mama can devote herself to nursing.

While neutering the male will prevent further conception (assuming neither of the females is allowed outdoors), you will find that living with a cat in heat is utter agony for both you and the cat. Best to spay the non-pregnant kitty at age 6 months or at first sign of heat which ever comes first (both you and she will be happier if you can do it before heat). and the soon-to-be mama when her kittens are about 6 weeks old or at first signs of another heat, whichever comes first.

The reason for suggesting 6 weeks is that by then the kitttens will usually be weaned (altho they may still occasionally nurse, mostly for emotional comfort). There is no harm to the mother to spaying sooner after delivery but the problem is that it requires separation from the kittens for about a day so they need to be able to eat and drink on their own. (Momma may be able to come home just a few hours after the procedure but better that the kittens not nurse until she has completely eliminated the anesthetic as evidenced by being 100% alert again, otherwise some of the anesthetic may pass in the breast milk...not deadly, but better to avoid if possible).

Injectable contraception is widely used for cats in Thailand (Depo-Provera) but is dangerous to their health (among other things, risk of cancer) so not recommended. Can be resorted to on a one time basis if the cat is in heat and for some reason it is not possible to spay her right away as it will stop the heat. Can also give oral progstins or natural progesterone by mouth to same effect. But it's really not a good idea if at all avoidable.

Last point: Don't know where you live but if in the Boondocks beware that some rural vets will "spay" by only removing the uterus, which does prevent pregnancy but leaves a cat that is continually going into heat. This happened to me once: I had a stray I had taken in spayed at a rural vet's and of course assumed that was that...only to have her go into violent heat just as I was preparing to leave the country. Was forced to give her depo just to get her and me out of our agony and on the way to the airport stopped to interrogate the vet as to just what he had removed. Turned out, only the uterus, which he seemed to think was utterly normal. On arrival at my destination had her re-operated on my a Western vet (who reamed me out for giving the depo!). Both the cat and I wound up going through a lot more grief than taking her into Bangkok to a proper vet would have entailed.

[triffid]

Thanks very much for the detailed advice, Shryl.

I'm now persuaded that I should get them all operated as soon as possible. Will take the male tomorrow to the vet. (He is only 5 months old, but showed signs of wanting to copulate - with his unwilling sister - so obviously is ready for the operation! That'll eliminate pregnancy risks for a bit. At 6mths I'll get his sister done (although initially I had wanted to let her have a litter because she is an exceptionally beautiful cat). And lastly the mother-to-be (who unfortunately was made to endure some 4-5 heats before the pregnancy). All this will be done in Chiang Mai where there is good vet care available - but even so I'll tell them I don't want a uterus-only operation.

[Priceless]

Triffid, if you have any further questions or need any urgent advice on the road to becoming a "grandparent", don't hesitate sending me a PM. If you want I'll send you my telephone number, as I am also in Chiang Mai and may be able to answer up to immediate needs.

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