How Rich Thais View Poor

[fletchsmile]

It's heart-warming to see the support that Thailand's poor, disenfranchised, oppressed and uneducated get from farang males as long as the poor, disenfranchised, oppressed and uneducated are willing to hop in the sack for a purple note or two.

Yep -- my thoughts exactly. Warms the heart.

I happen to believe that she would have many farang males support her regardless of whether she was being paid to hop in the sack. Which incidentally is not an established fact, just the opinion of a single bigotted writer, who gave her own perspective.

On another point, perhaps it's a reflection of yourselves that you can't see there may be a wider picture or two, to the one your little minds see. Instead you just go ahead, make such sweeping and narrow assumptions. Here so many people are so ready to stereotype, and jump to conclusions based on what they see or read or hear. The situation may not be as you see it. But even if it is as you see it, have you thought why? in anything more than superficial depth?

At the moment my daughter is a lovely cute girl, who gets a lot of attention everywhere she goes because she looks nice. I have to admit, it makes us feel great the positive reactions she brings out it people. Having been in Thailand many years, tho' I realise how superficial it is. I also can't help thinking how a less fortunate scruffy looking or ugly kid gets treated differently.

You'll probably tell me that's different tho'. But fast forward a few years. One of the things that crosses my mind as a parent here, is what bigots like you may say if I'm seen holding the hand of my daughter, when she grows up. It would never have crossed my mind in the UK to think about it. Let's face it we'll be judged on appearance here, by you sunrise, and Kitty. If she happens to grow up with freedom of expression and goes thru a rebellious phase where she wants to wear scruffy clothes, she'll look not much different from your average UK teenager or university student. But because she's (half) Thai and I'm an older male (perhaps even balding and a little fatter by then), we'll have cheap shots from the likes of you and this bigotted author, just because of how we look. I'm sure I'll hear one day, something stupid by a judgemental bigot along the lines of: "take a look at yourself, she's young enough to be your daughter..."

We'll still be the same people inside, just look a little differently. Isn't that a key point?

Point is, you're judging people vicariously, and know nothing about them or their circumstances.

Edited September 22, 2007 by fletchthai68

[Prakanong]

It's heart-warming to see the support that Thailand's poor, disenfranchised, oppressed and uneducated get from farang males as long as the poor, disenfranchised, oppressed and uneducated are willing to hop in the sack for a purple note or two.

Yep -- my thoughts exactly. Warms the heart.

You really think those that stand up for the Thai poor and disenfranchised do so only because they want them in bed?

You mind is sick my dear - really really sick.

Does that include the women that do too?

I know you just want them kept in their place - seen and not heard. Write to shitty kitty - she might adopt you as her tame farang pet and buy you a pink cover just like the laptop she tries to use!

[canadiangirl]

It's heart-warming to see the support that Thailand's poor, disenfranchised, oppressed and uneducated get from farang males as long as the poor, disenfranchised, oppressed and uneducated are willing to hop in the sack for a purple note or two.

Yep -- my thoughts exactly. Warms the heart.

You really think those that stand up for the Thai poor and disenfranchised do so only because they want them in bed?

If those are the only poor and disenfranchised Thais you speak up for, then yes, I do.

[canadiangirl]

It's heart-warming to see the support that Thailand's poor, disenfranchised, oppressed and uneducated get from farang males as long as the poor, disenfranchised, oppressed and uneducated are willing to hop in the sack for a purple note or two.

Yep -- my thoughts exactly. Warms the heart.

You mind is sick my dear

Save your terms of endearment for your "girlfriend". I'm not interested.

[britmaveric]

Tutsi - I see you lurking mate, go on dive in and share some tutsi-isms!!!

[Prakanong]

It's heart-warming to see the support that Thailand's poor, disenfranchised, oppressed and uneducated get from farang males as long as the poor, disenfranchised, oppressed and uneducated are willing to hop in the sack for a purple note or two.

Yep -- my thoughts exactly. Warms the heart.

You really think those that stand up for the Thai poor and disenfranchised do so only because they want them in bed?

If those are the only poor and disenfranchised Thais you speak up for, then yes, I do.

Sorry but you really are not making any sense whatsoever now????

The plot is lost in Canada!

[mrtoad]

Tutsi - I see you lurking mate, go on dive in and share some tutsi-isms!!!

This thread needs a couple of people to get off there high horses and take a break. It's been going around in circles for the past 24 hours.

Maybe some forthright words are needed.

[canadiangirl]

One thing that is unusual in the sex trade aimed at farangs in Thailand, compared to the same industry in the West, is that there is a lot more of a cross-over of prostitution into everyday life. It's almost unheard of for Western prostitutes and strippers to want to marry their customers, or to see them outside of a professional capacity. Similarly, few customers back home would dream of bringing a hooker to a normal social situation with one's friends, colleagues, or family.

But in Thailand, because of economic and cultural factors, the line between "normal" relationships and relationships based on prostitution seems to be blurred. In some ways, that can be good -- as there are couples who meet in Thailand under what would be regarded as seedy or at least unusual circumstances back home -- who nonetheless have loving and happy relationships that work.

However, if one is to believe the endless threads about getting ripped off by bargirls, finding out one's wife secretly has a Thai husband, sick buffaloes, the endless suggestions to read Private Dancer, about 3/4 of reader submissions to Stickman -- the list goes on -- there does seem to be a significant contingent of farang men in Thailand who are rather confused and often mistaken about the nature of their relationships. They mistake relationships motivated by money for relationships based on love. Did they not, after all, come to Thailand for the GFE? For exactly the feeling and the illusion that love is real and not just something that is paid for?

So when we see them squiring prostitutes around town and trying to pass them off as "civilians" are we perhaps just seeing a bit of wishful thinking?

Edited September 22, 2007 by canadiangirl

[britmaveric]

Pass them off as civilians???? There you go again... these are people and they are no different than you. Dunno where this nasty superior view point is coming from??? It certainly seems you are the one with the problem, not those you deem unworthy.

[Prakanong]

One thing that is unusual in the sex trade aimed at farangs in Thailand, compared to the same industry in the West, is that there is a lot more of a cross-over of prostitution into everyday life. It's almost unheard of for Western prostitutes and strippers to want to marry their customers, or to see them outside of a professional capacity. Similarly, few customers back home would dream of bringing a hooker to a normal social situation with one's friends, colleagues, or family.

But in Thailand, because of economic and cultural factors, the line between "normal" relationships and relationships based on prostitution seems to be blurred. In some ways, that can be good -- as there are couples who meet in Thailand under what would be regarded as seedy or at least unusual circumstances back home -- who nonetheless have loving and happy relationships that work.

However, if one is to believe the endless threads about getting ripped off by bargirls, finding out one's wife secretly has a Thai husband, sick buffaloes, the endless suggestions to read Private Dancer, about 3/4 of reader submissions to Stickman -- the list goes on -- there does seem to be a significant contingent of farang men in Thailand who are rather confused and often mistaken about the nature of their relationships. They mistake relationships motivated by money for relationships based on love. Did they not, after all, come to Thailand for the GFE? For exactly the feeling and the illusion that love is real and not just something that is paid for?

So when we see them squiring prostitutes around town and trying to pass them off as "civilians" are we perhaps just seeing a bit of wishful thinking?

Bloody hel_l - a dissertation or is it a precis of everything you have ever learned on the WWW about the sex trade and industry!

There are some good books out there you know and I do not mean Private Dancer - academic works and dissertations - have a look at a book like I told you earlier - education is a woinderful thing and although you think it should be reserved for hi so's unfortunately for you it is not

Civilians - thats a new one.

So you read Stickman Submission's - enuff said there then pet!

[WaiWai]

So when we see them squiring prostitutes around town and trying to pass them off as "civilians" are we perhaps just seeing a bit of wishful thinking?

Outright denial or sef-delusion in most cases. That's why the Thais find it so bizarre, and this massive disconnect is what kitty was mostly commenting on.

Edited September 22, 2007 by WaiWai

[Prakanong]

Pass them off as civilians???? There you go again... these are people and they are no different than you. Dunno where this nasty superior view point is coming from??? It certainly seems you are the one with the problem, not those you deem unworthy.

I agree with you!

Looking at some of the language she uses is quite highlighting is it not!

"Squiring around town"" - Last time I heard that was from my Grandmother in the same sentence as "Courting"

"Civilians" - is she a military brat - who uses that or is trying to hid the name she wuld like to use?

"Know their place" - yes poor people should not be able to go to certain shops and malls.

[Prakanong]

So when we see them squiring prostitutes around town and trying to pass them off as "civilians" are we perhaps just seeing a bit of wishful thinking?

Outright denial or sef-delusion in most cases. That's why the Thais find it so bizarre, and this massive disonnect is what kitty was mostly commenting on.

How dare they be on the street - Daddy, brother and Hubby shag their whores in 11 story brothels made out with faux ancient roman statues - they have class

[fletchsmile]

...It's almost unheard of for Western prostitutes and strippers to want to marry their customers, or to see them outside of a professional capacity. Similarly, few customers back home would dream of bringing a hooker to a normal social situation with one's friends, colleagues, or family.

You could be right...but then how would you know? I don't think any guy brings a girl out with him and says look guys/ look mum I've brought a hooker home. If it happens, I'd expect he just treats her as a person and knows that his friends/ parents will generall take her as they find her.

...Similarly there isn't such a prominent assumption in (developed) Western countries that any western girl seen with an Asian guy is a hooker. BTW How would you feel if there was? Guess you've probably not thougt of that.

[mrtoad]

One thing that is unusual in the sex trade aimed at farangs in Thailand, compared to the same industry in the West, is that there is a lot more of a cross-over of prostitution into everyday life. It's almost unheard of for Western prostitutes and strippers to want to marry their customers, or to see them outside of a professional capacity. Similarly, few customers back home would dream of bringing a hooker to a normal social situation with one's friends, colleagues, or family.

But in Thailand, because of economic and cultural factors, the line between "normal" relationships and relationships based on prostitution seems to be blurred. In some ways, that can be good -- as there are couples who meet in Thailand under what would be regarded as seedy or at least unusual circumstances back home -- who nonetheless have loving and happy relationships that work.

However, if one is to believe the endless threads about getting ripped off by bargirls, finding out one's wife secretly has a Thai husband, sick buffaloes, the endless suggestions to read Private Dancer, about 3/4 of reader submissions to Stickman -- the list goes on -- there does seem to be a significant contingent of farang men in Thailand who are rather confused and often mistaken about the nature of their relationships. They mistake relationships motivated by money for relationships based on love. Did they not, after all, come to Thailand for the GFE? For exactly the feeling and the illusion that love is real and not just something that is paid for?

So when we see them squiring prostitutes around town and trying to pass them off as "civilians" are we perhaps just seeing a bit of wishful thinking?

Bloody hel_l - a dissertation or is it a precis of everything you have ever learned on the WWW about the sex trade and industry!

There are some good books out there you know and I do not mean Private Dancer - academic works and dissertations - have a look at a book like I told you earlier - education is a woinderful thing and although you think it should be reserved for hi so's unfortunately for you it is not

Civilians - thats a new one.

So you read Stickman Submission's - enuff said there then pet!

Praka, I think that you are wasting your time. How can you argue with someone who uses stickman and Stephen Leather as sources to back up an argument? You should surely be aware that these are highly regarded factual sources.

I'm not sure if any of us are worhty of sharing this thread with her anyway? She is clearly intellectually and class superior to most of us mere mortals.

[canadiangirl]

Ah, you can always tell when you've hit a nerve, because the trolls come out from under their rock.

[WaiWai]

...Similarly there isn't such a prominent assumption in (developed) Western countries that any western girl seen with an Asian guy is a hooker. BTW How would you feel if there was? Guess you've probably not thougt of that.

Kitty's annoyance & bewilderment came in part from feeling that it is this kind of behaviour (perversely and rather pathetically trying to publically "normalise" the relationship when it's patently a relationship of prostitute and client) that contributes to the notion that *every* Thai is for rent. I find her view understandable.

Edited September 22, 2007 by WaiWai

[Prakanong]

One thing that is unusual in the sex trade aimed at farangs in Thailand, compared to the same industry in the West, is that there is a lot more of a cross-over of prostitution into everyday life. It's almost unheard of for Western prostitutes and strippers to want to marry their customers, or to see them outside of a professional capacity. Similarly, few customers back home would dream of bringing a hooker to a normal social situation with one's friends, colleagues, or family.

But in Thailand, because of economic and cultural factors, the line between "normal" relationships and relationships based on prostitution seems to be blurred. In some ways, that can be good -- as there are couples who meet in Thailand under what would be regarded as seedy or at least unusual circumstances back home -- who nonetheless have loving and happy relationships that work.

However, if one is to believe the endless threads about getting ripped off by bargirls, finding out one's wife secretly has a Thai husband, sick buffaloes, the endless suggestions to read Private Dancer, about 3/4 of reader submissions to Stickman -- the list goes on -- there does seem to be a significant contingent of farang men in Thailand who are rather confused and often mistaken about the nature of their relationships. They mistake relationships motivated by money for relationships based on love. Did they not, after all, come to Thailand for the GFE? For exactly the feeling and the illusion that love is real and not just something that is paid for?

So when we see them squiring prostitutes around town and trying to pass them off as "civilians" are we perhaps just seeing a bit of wishful thinking?

Bloody hel_l - a dissertation or is it a precis of everything you have ever learned on the WWW about the sex trade and industry!

There are some good books out there you know and I do not mean Private Dancer - academic works and dissertations - have a look at a book like I told you earlier - education is a woinderful thing and although you think it should be reserved for hi so's unfortunately for you it is not

Civilians - thats a new one.

So you read Stickman Submission's - enuff said there then pet!

Praka, I think that you are wasting your time. How can you argue with someone who uses stickman and Stephen Leather as sources to back up an argument? You should surely be aware that these are highly regarded factual sources.

I'm not sure if any of us are worhty of sharing this thread with her anyway? She is clearly intellectually and class superior to most of us mere mortals.

You are correct - I am amusing myself till I heading to the airport. I just hope there are no poor people trying to get in the Raffles Lounge tonight and those service girls on the plane better have the steak my assistant ordered for my meal just the way I like it (half kidding about the steak)

I hope the person sitting next to me at least has a decent laptop too with a designer cover or I will have to move seats!

[britmaveric]

Ah, you can always tell when you've hit a nerve, because the trolls come out from under their rock.

Some might view your behaviour as trollish.

[Prakanong]

...Similarly there isn't such a prominent assumption in (developed) Western countries that any western girl seen with an Asian guy is a hooker. BTW How would you feel if there was? Guess you've probably not thougt of that.

Kitty's annoyance & bewilderment came in part from feeling that it is this kind of behaviour (perversely and rather pathetically trying to publically "normalise" the relationship when it's patently a relationship of prostitute and client) that contributes to the notion that *every* Thai is for rent. I find her view understandable.

Kitty's annoyance aside I would disagree with you that its the "Normalisation" of the relationship that contributes to the notion that every Thai girl is for rent.

The fact is most people who have this abhorent idea have never been to Thailand nor seen these "Normalisations" ("third normal form" Codd 1972? - sorry IT joke)

Thailand was portrayed this way and some might even say marketed from say the Vietnam War onwards with the R&R and troops based there. Then to substitute that market when they mostly went home ther was the German and Japanese sex tours - some given out as bonus's for workers???

Yes prostitution has always been around for the Thai and Asian scen and is bigger than the western scene manifold but its the western scene that causes posts like Kitty's.

I strill say though prostitution is a lesser evil than killing innocents and just how tainted was the money Kitty spent for her education in order to write like a 1980's Valley girl?

[canadiangirl]

Praka, I think that you are wasting your time. How can you argue with someone who uses stickman and Stephen Leather as sources to back up an argument? You should surely be aware that these are highly regarded factual sources.

Would I consider Private Dancer or stickman to be objective, well-documented research on the sex trade in Thailand? No. There are much better sources for that. But it provides an interesting view of how some of the male participants see their own experience, in their own words, as does this forum. As for the accuracy of Private Dancer, I make no comment on it, but I'll point out that it in pretty much any thread about relationships or potential relationships with bargirls, someone brings it up as suggested reading, so something in it seems to ring true for at least some people.

Frankly, I think you have nothing to say except for personal attacks. Again, -- high on insults, low on facts.

[mrtoad]

Ah, you can always tell when you've hit a nerve, because the trolls come out from under their rock.

Some might view your behaviour as trollish.

With you on that Britmav.

Looks like someone must have hit a nerve for her to resort to the troll argument.

Just a quick point, Trolls don't tend to hide under rocks, bridges are a favoured option. I prefer a nice big bridge.

Please have a look at my habitat, it's a nice location and certainly not any area were riff raff hang out

Mr Toad,

Clifton Suspension Bridge

[Prakanong]

Praka, I think that you are wasting your time. How can you argue with someone who uses stickman and Stephen Leather as sources to back up an argument? You should surely be aware that these are highly regarded factual sources.

Would I consider Private Dancer or stickman to be objective, well-documented research on the sex trade in Thailand? No. There are much better sources for that. But it provides an interesting view of how some of the male participants see their own experience, in their own words, as does this forum. As for the accuracy of Private Dancer, I make no comment on it, but I'll point out that it in pretty much any thread about relationships or potential relationships with bargirls, someone brings it up as suggested reading, so something in it seems to ring true for at least some people.

Frankly, I think you have nothing to say except for personal attacks. Again, -- high on insults, low on facts.

Out of interest have you read Private Dancer?

If so have you read the original non-fiction article that came first from which the fictional novel eventually grew?

You are alluding to other works that are objective ands well documented - perhaps you could supply the board with a reading list and as you must have read them as you know so much a literature revue as one would put in a dissertation would be wonderful.

Looking forward to your facts and knowledge instead of class based bile!

[Prakanong]

Praka, I think that you are wasting your time. How can you argue with someone who uses stickman and Stephen Leather as sources to back up an argument? You should surely be aware that these are highly regarded factual sources.

Would I consider Private Dancer or stickman to be objective, well-documented research on the sex trade in Thailand? No. There are much better sources for that. But it provides an interesting view of how some of the male participants see their own experience, in their own words, as does this forum. As for the accuracy of Private Dancer, I make no comment on it, but I'll point out that it in pretty much any thread about relationships or potential relationships with bargirls, someone brings it up as suggested reading, so something in it seems to ring true for at least some people.

Frankly, I think you have nothing to say except for personal attacks. Again, -- high on insults, low on facts.

Out of interest have you read Private Dancer?

If so have you read the original non-fiction article that came first from which the fictional novel eventually grew?

You are alluding to other works that are objective ands well documented - perhaps you could supply the board with a reading list and as you must have read them as you know so much a literature revue as one would put in a dissertation would be wonderful.

Looking forward to your facts and knowledge instead of snobbery without validation!

[britmaveric]

Why don't you get to know the "civilians" before you comment? No bit of reading is going to adequately explain unless you get to know people. Get your feet wet and talk to those you denigrate so quickly. However I suspect chatting with lowly toilets might be beneath you. Any rate I've gotten to know some really lovely people over the years, and that alone is worth its weight in gold.

[Prakanong]

Why don't you get to know the "civilians" before you comment? No bit of reading is going to adequately explain unless you get to know people. Get your feet wet and talk to those you denigrate so quickly. However I suspect chatting with lowly toilets might be beneath you. Any rate I've gotten to know some really lovely people over the years, and that alone is worth its weight in gold.

I think this is much more obscen than any bar girl and punter in the Emporium

http://www.gallerym.com/images/work/big/pu..._massacre_L.jpg

Kitty's Grandad's coming home party is it?

Maybe canadagirl and kitty can console themselves they they should have not been there?

[mrtoad]

Frankly, I think you have nothing to say except for personal attacks. Again, -- high on insults, low on facts.

Sorry, that you feel this way, but personal attacks have been pretty much you area of expertise in your recent posts.

Many people have varied opinions of working girls, prostitution, class etc, but you are arguing that these people should stay in the dark. I can't really understand how you can justify that someone who may or may not have been a "working girl", but because they may look like one (whatever that may be), should not be allowed into a shopping mall.? It is class driven opinions based on appearance and feelings of superiority, and as pointed out by several other posters the original author of the blog does not have a family history that one should be to proud of herself.

Don't just base your opinions on what you read, as Britmav has pointed out meeting people from all walks of life may just enrich your current blinkered views.

[bangkokrick]

Why don't you get to know the "civilians" before you comment? No bit of reading is going to adequately explain unless you get to know people. Get your feet wet and talk to those you denigrate so quickly. However I suspect chatting with lowly toilets might be beneath you. Any rate I've gotten to know some really lovely people over the years, and that alone is worth its weight in gold.

Good post Brit and i agree with your sentiments entirely. Firing bullets from her ivory tower is not a very brave thing go do and i just hope that she at some point comes face to face with th people that she is slagging off. I think that she would no be so forthright then.

Cheers Rick.

[jumnien]

We must remember that Kitty's article has nothing to do with a poor person; it is about a relatively rich ho. Personally, I think that a number of prostitutes are wonderfully polite folks. This article was not about a wonderfully polite prostitute. It was about a ho who acted like a ho and dressed like a ho and was in a very public and very funny out of context situation and provided fodder for a nice little piece that did offend some of the more conservative readers. I don't think Miss Kitty is losing any sleep over the criticism and I don't think Miss Purple Notes is missing any sleep over the humorous critique either. They've gotten on with there lives, I'm sure. The fact is that Miss Purple Notes probably earns more in a week of short times than Miss Kitty does for her weekly columns. Little Miss Purple Notes is laughing all the way to the gold shop while Miss Kitty is stuck trying to turn left our of the Paragon. Can't we all just agree to disagree?

[WaiWai]

Kitty also made a point about the sales staff earning far less than the prostitute.

Kitty's annoyance aside I would disagree with you that its the "Normalisation" of the relationship that contributes to the notion that every Thai girl is for rent.

She dislikes the attempt on the part of the foreigner to make the very public display of this relationship "normal" when it is far from normal in Thai society. Also, she finds it bizarre that the foreigner appears to believe the prositute is his girlfriend.