How Rich Thais View Poor

[Tnil]

Check out this post in the rich Thai girl blog "Oh! See what the Cat drags in!" This so-called "journalist" (she seems to write for BK Magazine, but can't even get the name of her own blog right) has a terrible encounter with the country's lower classes and survies to tell about it.

What's really interesting is that this girl is the direct descendant of Thailand's cruelest and most infamous military dictator (and that's saying something) -- Thanom Kittikachorn.

<link removed>

Out in Emporium buying expensive shoes for her mommy, she has a self-described "bitch moment" when confronted with a farang and a prostitute... who have the audacity to be shopping in the same store as her! She goes on to describe prostitutes as "toilets" and can't understand why anybody would want to be seen with such awful creatures.

When she gets a scolding in the comments the best she can come up with is a cruel "me no speaky English" bar-girl style mockery. Totally unable to address the issue.

Great from an anthropological perspective: we get to see how the country's elite, a child of the most vile, murdering rapist of the land, really thinks of the lower castes.

Edited September 18, 2007 by Totster
Removed link

[londonthai]

thailand is an incredibly class devided society - something which might remind of the cast system in India.

I am able to mix in england, maybe not with the ruling class, but with descendants of nobility, lords etc without such problems as in thailand. In fact, on the whole, they are nice, open and sociable people and their only superiority is their wealth.

in thailand you are like a lepper or invincible to the toffs.

looks like in a more developed economies those privileged by the wealth and ancestry had time to re-socialise themselfes far more than in an agral, peasant based economies.

They do have problems adapting to the contemporary society, and every teacher in toffs universities in england (like oxford or cambridge) and in scotland (like st andrews) would tell you a lot about the mental state of those rich kids, but they do make some efford to educate themselves and be usuful to the society on the whole if not through wage work than through voluntary work/charity work.

Edited September 18, 2007 by londonthai

[mrtoad]

No suprise really, just look at the way GURU in the post is going. Look's like that is now a plaything for "named offspring" to pout and pose, and also to add some pretty disparaging remarks about Indians and Farangs in recent weeks. They, may have money and connections, but they have little in the way of anything else to contribute to society .

[Tnil]

The link was removed. You can find it by Googling "see what the cat drags in". The post is called "unsightly".

[ColPyat]

thailand is an incredibly class devided society - something which might remind of the cast system in India.

Sure...

Whereas back in the West everyone has at least a couple of prostitites in their circle of friends, dont they?

There is a bit of a difference.

In the eyes of some elitist people here, it does actually not matter if your wife was a prostitute or not. If she is from a poor background - she will be treated the same, which is miserably bad.

Over the years i have learned to be very careful about socializing in Thailand, and where better not to take my wife around to safe her some painful experience. I love classical music, for example, but after some very ugly encounters with some bad mannered elitist people i will stay with my CD collection while in Thailand, and reserve concert visits for when we are in Europe.

It is amazing how medieval class is still treated here in Thailand, and how little social interaction apart from patron/client relationships the different classes still have.

[Tnil]

It is caste system, pure and simple. Much better hidden than the system in India, and probably a bit more flexible, but that is what it is. Some of the more enlightened Thais will admit to this. Most will deny it forever. I'd like to read some scholarly work on it. Anyone know if the Thai caste system has been objectively studied?

[solo siam]

I still see no difference between this and the UK for example.

Turn up at a posh London socialite party with a liverpudlian girl, or a Jamaican guy and you are likely to receive exactly the same disdain from just their accents. The only difference here is that comparatively rich Westerners are in the main married to (previously) very poor Thai ladies, whereas back in the UK people generally marry within similar class.

Obviously the first thing that enters someones mind when first meeting a couple who have obviously different social standing is how did they meet this person?, I'm sure its VERY much the same back West for people with Russian wives etc...

People will always view with supsicion those who 'marry up', marry older guys etc... thats why there are terms such as 'gold digger' etc...

[solo siam]

It is caste system, pure and simple. Much better hidden than the system in India, and probably a bit more flexible, but that is what it is. Some of the more enlightened Thais will admit to this. Most will deny it forever. I'd like to read some scholarly work on it. Anyone know if the Thai caste system has been objectively studied?

I wish people would stop bandying around this 'caste' system nonsense, it's nothing at all like the Indian caste system, its just snobbery, which is available worldwide.

Most people probably don't notice it back in the West because you are not mixing with or considered as wealthy/high society there, here when you go out for a $30 meal you are mixing with and seated by the wealthier of Thailand.

[DurianChips]

I'm going to reply here, even though I know I will probably be offending a large number of TV readers, but here goes anyway.

After seeing the summary made by the original poster, I expected the blog to be some hardcare elitist crap. I'm married to a woman from Surin, who has a dark complexion, and she has told me before that hi-society people from Bangkok look down on the country people. So it wouldn't have surprised me at all to read a blog by a hi-society girl deprecating country people.

However, when I read the blog, it seems to me that the writer isn't insulting all people who are economically beneath her. Her tone is sarcastic, certainly, but she's not insulting all poorer Thai women, just prostitutes! Indeed, she even says, "That girl wasn't ugly I tell you. She could do decent jobs like being air-hostess or cosmetic counter girl if she really wanted to have a decent life. Of course she wouldn't be shopping for heaps of clothes with trips to the exotic lands of the West but she would be something of a person, and not just another example of Bangkok's unsightly stereotype that will keep mass-branding us other decent Thai women."

This sounds an awful lot like things I have heard my own wife and members of her family say. And the complaint that these prostitutes give all Thai women a bad name is one I've heard time and again. It may be news to some readers of this forum, but there are plenty of Thai people across the socioeconomic spectrum who disapprove of prostitution, and lament the negative impact it has had upon the country and its image. And no, this doesn't mean that they hate all poor people.

[howtoescape]

My ex BG would go all shy, quiet and frightened when having to speak to a so called higher class Thai lady, the difference in England is working class males would quite happily break the jaw of a Toff if he in anyway tried to show he was superior.

Besides the Old Guard Aristocracy and the working class in England have a mutual respect and are basically the same....they are all criminals.

[endure]

It might be worth your while googling 'sakdina' to illuminate a little of the Thai class system. Old habits are hard to break.

[Tnil]

However, when I read the blog, it seems to me that the writer isn't insulting all people who are economically beneath her. Her tone is sarcastic, certainly, but she's not insulting all poorer Thai women, just prostitutes!

There is a pervasive tone of scorn for the underclass in the post, and in the comments, too. Throughout the whole blog, in fact. I find it particularly interesting because this is a direct descedent of the Thanom.

Yes, the prostitution issue does unfortunately affect all Thai women. But then if it weren't for exploitative and repressive dictators like Thanom and his cronies, perhaps so many Thai people wouldn't be so poor and thus willing to get involved in prostitution.

[Tnil]

It might be worth your while googling 'sakdina' to illuminate a little of the Thai class system. Old habits are hard to break.

Thanks for that, I had never heard the term sakdina before. So there we have it -- the Thai caste system was actually codified into law. More flexible than the Indian system, but still a system of institutionalized social inequality.

[ColPyat]

I still see no difference between this and the UK for example.

Turn up at a posh London socialite party with a liverpudlian girl, or a Jamaican guy and you are likely to receive exactly the same disdain from just their accents. The only difference here is that comparatively rich Westerners are in the main married to (previously) very poor Thai ladies, whereas back in the UK people generally marry within similar class.

Obviously the first thing that enters someones mind when first meeting a couple who have obviously different social standing is how did they meet this person?, I'm sure its VERY much the same back West for people with Russian wives etc...

People will always view with supsicion those who 'marry up', marry older guys etc... thats why there are terms such as 'gold digger' etc...

The upper classes in the west do not spend all their days and nights at "posh" parties. That is just stuff from the movies. They also have normal lives.

And no, when your wife is well behaved than she will be treated with respect and politeness, regardless of her background. Maybe some newly rich upstarts in the west have a bug up their behinds, i don't know much of them sorts, but generally speaking - the real upper classes will not treat people with the disdain the ones here do.

[Jersey_UK]

This sounds an awful lot like things I have heard my own wife and members of her family say. And the complaint that these prostitutes give all Thai women a bad name is one I've heard time and again. It may be news to some readers of this forum, but there are plenty of Thai people across the socioeconomic spectrum who disapprove of prostitution, and lament the negative impact it has had upon the country and its image. And no, this doesn't mean that they hate all poor people.

Although our Thai social circles do not appear to be similar , I would be truly surprised if this was not the case. Thailand's image has spread far and wide and it ain't "Temples and Elephants"

Say "Thailand" to a Brit and most would associate it with CHEAP Prostitutes & Ping Pong shows - even if they also associate it with more positive things.........of course that could also be to do with my Social Circle over here

I would expect that most Thai woman who have ventured to the West and outside of a 5 star hotel have probably encountered this image first hand, if only in the Newspapers............and it must be a bit of a shock to find that they are not regarded as "HISO", including (especially?!) by the plebs

Sometimes I think that Thailand truly has no sense of shame.........and me a Nan(a) Vet

[canadiangirl]

No one will deny that Thailand has class issues.

But when I hear farang rant about this, I can't help but think there's a bit more to it than pure concern for social justice and equality.

Guesthouse wrote in another thread that one reason many farang come to Thailand is to enjoy economic power over others, especially women. I think this is true, and IMHO, some of the farang resentment against the Thai hi-so comes from the fact that farang, at least the kind of farang who is working-to-middle class at home, but feels rich in Thailand, have little economic power over them. As well, it's hard not to think that many men, especially those who prize Thai women as being "more feminine" (to say it politely) than other women -- are uncomfortable with a Thai woman who doesn't fit the stereotype, and actually speaks her mind very strongly.

If you read further into her blog, you'll see that she stood up to question the Minister of Information (aka the man who censored youtube) when he spoke at the FCC, and was quite confrontational with him. Now that's guts. Oh -- how I would have loved to be there!

On one hand, I sympathize with ColPyat, who says that he is uncomfortable going to more high-brow events with his Thai partner, because of how she is treated by snobs. On the other hand, some farang men parade their Thai girlfriend from poor backgrounds around with an attitude that seems less motivated by "making strides for social equality" -- which one could make an argument for, certainly, and more about "Thailand is my giant playground -- what are you going to do about it?" -- trying to give relationships based on prostitution a legitimacy they would never have back home either. Most people wouldn't dream of bringing a prostitute or a stripper to a company function or a job interview back home. But in happens in LOS.

I've had Thai women with money tell me how sick they are of farang men thinking Thailand is one big brothel. (Of course, not all farang think that -- but it is the attitude of some, as you can read on this board.) In their place, I'd be sick of having it paraded in my face too.

So while I'd agree that the journalist/blogger the OP wrote about is a snob, I think there's more to the situation than that.

Edited September 18, 2007 by canadiangirl

[ColPyat]

It might be worth your while googling 'sakdina' to illuminate a little of the Thai class system. Old habits are hard to break.

Thanks for that, I had never heard the term sakdina before. So there we have it -- the Thai caste system was actually codified into law. More flexible than the Indian system, but still a system of institutionalized social inequality.

And there is one more difference - the Indian government and the many social activists do make huge efforts in trying to loosen the cast system. Even some religious orders there try that. In Thailand, the remnants of Sakdina are just glanced over, and there never was a wide public debate on its effects.

One infamous Thai socialist - Chit Phumisak - wrote a book on it: "Chom Na Sakdina Thai" - exposing Thai feudalism. He was imprisoned, and then not long after his release he was killed.

[A_Traveller]

If memory serves, he wrote his book in the mid 50's and was killed about 10 years later. He was remanded as a communist but found not guilty {after @ 6 years in goal}.

Regards

PS He was killed in fighting in Sakhon Nakhon.

Edited September 18, 2007 by A_Traveller

[ColPyat]

So while I'd agree that the journalist the OP wrote about is a snob, I think there's more to the situation than that.

Obviously it doesn't really help how some farang and their rent-a-wifes behave, there still is here a huge class issue which has very little to do with us farang. But through our spouses we are directly affected.

The present and the coming political problem here in Thailand are to at least some part caused by this almost archaic social hierarchy in a rapid progress of collapse.

[suegha]

I agree with the points about it being pure 'snobbery' and you get that everywhere! I'm from Dublin, and I can seriously say it's an egalitarian society, but not totally! I am from a hardcore working class background, sometimes I met people who would look down their nose at me because of where I was from, or the schools I went to, but not always. Of course the converse is also true. I can trace my family back to the Irish aristocracy in the 12th century. This might impress some but not all. I think the point is that people are people everywhere.

Now I am a working class boy 'done good', I run a sucessful business, I am a self made man, when I meet people I never judge them from their social status or material worth. I judge them as I find them. I know this is an ideal, but shouldn't we all strive for this?

ps And let's just feel sorry for those people who judge using the 'other reasons'!

[ColPyat]

If memory serves, he wrote his book in the mid 50's and was killed about 10 years later. He was remanded as a communist but found not guilty {after @ 6 years in goal}.

Regards

PS He was killed in fighting in Sakhon Nakhon.

here's a link, with several other links that might lead to interesting reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chit_Phumisak

[canadiangirl]

So while I'd agree that the journalist the OP wrote about is a snob, I think there's more to the situation than that.

Obviously it doesn't really help how some farang and their rent-a-wifes behave, there still is here a huge class issue which has very little to do with us farang. But through our spouses we are directly affected.

The present and the coming political problem here in Thailand are to at least some part caused by this almost archaic social hierarchy in a rapid progress of collapse.

You're probably right, ColPyat. Good to see you posting, I haven't had the chance to read your interesting opinions for a while.

[ColPyat]

So while I'd agree that the journalist the OP wrote about is a snob, I think there's more to the situation than that.

Obviously it doesn't really help how some farang and their rent-a-wifes behave, there still is here a huge class issue which has very little to do with us farang. But through our spouses we are directly affected.

The present and the coming political problem here in Thailand are to at least some part caused by this almost archaic social hierarchy in a rapid progress of collapse.

You're probably right, ColPyat. Good to see you posting, I haven't had the chance to read your interesting opinions for a while.

Just busy in a bit of trench warfare in the news folder (the rescue thread)

[papaya9]

The vast majority of people who are disdainful of anyone outside their class level are simply insecure. If you were to take away their fortune and their material objects (and status) they would be pitiful, pathetic and useless lower beings--which is what they fear most.

Edited September 18, 2007 by papaya9

[canadiangirl]

The vast majority of people who are disdainful of anyone outside their class level are simply insecure. If you were to take away their fortune and their material objects (and status) they would be pitiful, pathetic and useless lower beings--which is what they fear most.

So does that judgment apply to those who disdain the rich?

[Tnil]

If you read further into her blog, you'll see that she stood up to question the Minister of Information (aka the man who censored youtube) when he spoke at the FCC, and was quite confrontational with him. Now that's guts. Oh -- how I would have loved to be there!

Doesn't take that much guts when you're a scion of a brutal military junta. Who would dare reproach someone like that? And it's not like she was standing up against some great injustice... she just wanted her YouTube back.

[Heng]

The vast majority of people who are disdainful of anyone outside their class level are simply insecure. If you were to take away their fortune and their material objects (and status) they would be pitiful, pathetic and useless lower beings--which is what they fear most.

So does that judgment apply to those who disdain the rich?

Couple good posts from CG.

And let's not forget how the poor, relatively poor, and even middle classes view the wealthy. A lot of those views and opinions are unfair, unjust, and hurtful as well.

[Simmo]

If you read further into her blog, you'll see that she stood up to question the Minister of Information (aka the man who censored youtube) when he spoke at the FCC, and was quite confrontational with him. Now that's guts. Oh -- how I would have loved to be there!

And if you delve deeper into her blog, you'll find a post where she agonises over what matching carrybag to buy for her "sugalicious" pink Sony VAIO laptop.

[jumnien]

The class issue is very strong in the US also where crack whores are treated with disdain at dinner parties. Very similar to the example from Thailand. By the way, that scene from Borat was fabulous! One of the observations missing in this thread is that not all poor people in Thailand think prostitutes are wonderful.

Edited September 19, 2007 by sunrise07

[canadiangirl]

If you read further into her blog, you'll see that she stood up to question the Minister of Information (aka the man who censored youtube) when he spoke at the FCC, and was quite confrontational with him. Now that's guts. Oh -- how I would have loved to be there!

And if you delve deeper into her blog, you'll find a post where she agonises over what matching carrybag to buy for her "sugalicious" pink Sony VAIO laptop.

So? Nothing says one can't look smart and be smart at the same time.

I'd rather read about pink laptops than old farts complaining about how the price of beer in Pattaya has gone up 5 BATH == Thai conspiracy against farang == impending crash of the economy == DOOM!

It's a blog yo, not a semi-annual report from the united nations.