PM Paetongtarn Faces Legal Battle Over Advisor Appointments

[skoperism]

Hi Everyone,

I have recently moved to Chang Mai, since moving here I have herd a lot about the pollution here. Well it hasn’t rained in a week or so and already the pollution is very visible, You can notise a strong haze when looking at the mountains even when you are at the base. I herd from Feb onwards were the words months. Well I think now is quite bad, so I can’t imagine what it will be like then.

I have done a little web surfing to find out some more info:

Chiang Mai pollution danger

Tuesday, 06 March 2007

Residents of Chiang Mai have been advised to avoid outdoor activities as the city's air pollution has reached a dangerous level.

The level of dust particles smaller than 10 microns was measured at 197.7 microgrammes per cubic metre (ug/cu m) in the city on Monday, against an acceptable level of 120 ug/cu m.

''Chiang Mai's air quality has reached a critical level since last Thursday. We recommend that residents stay home to avoid exposing themselves to small dust particles. All burning activities are also prohibited to reduce the volume of dust released into the air,'' said the official warning.

The air pollution crisis is predicted to continue for at least three months.

http://www.bangkokrecorder.com/news/news/c...gerous-831.html

Chiang Mai's air pollution still high

Air quality in Chiang Mai remains below recommended standards with fine-particle dust levels reaching twice the standard.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/03/11...al_30029004.php

our air is progressively becoming dangerous and we are happily stewing in it,” she alarmingly informed a meeting attended by Vice Governor Prinya Panthong, a representative of the Lord Mayor, the head of the Chiang Mai Transport Department as well as a collection of other governmental officials at the provincial hall in February. “Because of the gradual increase in air pollution, there is no quick significant change to alarm the public. A 2.5 micron particulate matter (PM) is a type of air pollution. One micron is one thousandth of a millimetre, so we are talking about minute particles which are deadly when infiltrating the finest tissues of our lungs

“They don’t want to make a real effort,” she said to Citylife. “They are so afraid that it would scare away their tourists. I heard that a tourist from Alaska booked a ten day holiday in Chiang Mai, left after two days and sent a letter saying that Chiang Mai didn’t live up to what the brochures claimed. He was talking specifically about air pollution. Surely it’s an important issue for us all.”

. Burning is so popular in Chiang Mai, that most of us have neighbours who do it too. Although there may not be a clearly enforced ordinance about burning yard waste, a few laws of physics do hold good. “One is that what goes up must come down and the other is that matter does not get created or destroyed. A pile of leaves turns into smoke and ash and not a gram of it goes missing. It doesn’t really float away. A portion of it will turn into fine particles and that is what we breathe in Chiang Mai during the dry months. Smoke and particulates that we breathe in town probably also come from the seasonal burning of crop residues and vacant land around the city. Chiang Mai is surrounded by mountains and the air frequently gets trapped in the valley.

Link to cancer graph

http://www.chiangmainews.com/indepth/details.php?id=625

Well any one who lives here obvious knows the problem. So what can be done???/

1. Inform the public? That whatever is burnt will end up in your lungs. Who is going to be paying the hospital bills?

2. Inform the international media which will put pressure on the Thai government to clean up its act or face having a bad image as a tourist location.

3. Make large fines for burning, Make sure the police get a large cut, so they have incentive to enforce them.

4. Inform the public via the media. News papers, possibly signage, all with sponsorship from companies that want to create a good image to the public.

5. Organize a petition that will get more media attention and awareness.

6. Try and get Thais to understand that their neighbor who is burning his rubbish is the cause of lung cancer, allergies, decreased tourism and health.

Well I know a lot of people don’t move to Chang mai due to the pollution issue and a lot of people that move away because if this.

How can we fix this quickly?

[lannarebirth]

I dare say what you're describing seeing today is less haze and more fog. I've just left my land 25km to the north of Chiang Mai. It has views that extend 60- 100 kms away. Both to the north and the east, where there is little population, it is somewhat "hazy" and I cannot see the furthest mountain ranges approx 100km away today. It seems very much like the evaporative "haze" we get during rainy season, when it hasn't rained for a few days.

That is not to say Chiang Mai does not experience a seasonal haze after new year in the dry season. It does, and this past year, for two weeks, it was not pleasant at all. I think you will find that the powers that be are aware of it, and trying to embarass them in regional or global publications, I think, would be less than fruitful. What my girlfriend and I did, was talk to our Puyai ban and Khumnan and tried to increase their awareness of the problem. We hinted that it might be a good idea if regional and national ministries witheld funding for districts that failed to comply with the stricter burning policy. They seemed to get that message.

[mcgriffith]

How can we fix this quickly?

Sell your SUV and ride a bike!

Seriously, this topic was run into the ground in March/April this year. The smoke/haze/particulate matter was very elevated, due to a few confluences of events (weather patterns, forest fires, etc.). We can do all we possibly can to convince our Thai neighbors to not burn rubbish, etc. It sounds good. But it is a drop in the bucket compared to the wind-borne particulate matter blowing down from China, and the often massive forest fires (I'm not talking about ag burning) that rage in Burma and Laos. We had fires raging in both countries last spring; there is little infrastructure to combat these events in either country.

I am not dismissing your argument; I pretty much agree with everything you have to say. But we have all seen the same graphs, charts, bleak pronouncements on tourism, etc. until our eyes started to glaze over, last spring.

I plan on leaving CM March/April next year. probably go down to Krabi, do some diving, maybe zip over to Bali.

I guess your answer is: We can't fix this quickly.

McG

[siam-i-am]

How can we fix this quickly?

Sell your SUV and ride a bike!

Seriously, this topic was run into the ground in March/April this year. The smoke/haze/particulate matter was very elevated, due to a few confluences of events (weather patterns, forest fires, etc.). We can do all we possibly can to convince our Thai neighbors to not burn rubbish, etc. It sounds good. But it is a drop in the bucket compared to the wind-borne particulate matter blowing down from China, and the often massive forest fires (I'm not talking about ag burning) that rage in Burma and Laos. We had fires raging in both countries last spring; there is little infrastructure to combat these events in either country.

I am not dismissing your argument; I pretty much agree with everything you have to say. But we have all seen the same graphs, charts, bleak pronouncements on tourism, etc. until our eyes started to glaze over, last spring.

I plan on leaving CM March/April next year. probably go down to Krabi, do some diving, maybe zip over to Bali.

I guess your answer is: We can't fix this quickly.

McG

I hate to say it but I agree, visited a moobann in Mae jo tonight a lady swept leaves off her drive and set them alight, 4 or 5 people in the soi and no one said anything. I mentioned pollution and got a smile in return

[cm das]

I sympathize with the urgent desire to do something about the air pollution in Chiang Mai (did someone say 'crackdown'?) but I agree with lannarebirth's tack - a foreigner showing up in Chiang Mai or anywhere in Thailand & making a big stink about fixing something (pollution, corruption, you name it) is unlikely to be well received. There are more low key ways you can have an impact, as in by focusing subtly & calmly on increasing awareness in those around you. And in the meantime, at least for the near term, you have to accept that bad air for a couple of months is one of the downsides of living in Chiang Mai. I too try to spend most of March traveling, either back to the states or elsewhere.

[chaila]

3march 2006 bankok post wrote,next week there will be more wind so no more problems ????

take allok at this www.nachang.com/dryseason/comparison.html

[Bananaman]

Well much as the OP seems to have dragged up a topic that has been done to death, I guess it's going to continue to be debated as long as the incendiary habits of locals persist in such a flagrantly unabated fashion. The air has indeed taken a turn for the worst in the last week or so and I'm sorry to say it's not fog. Around where I am in the Ruam Chok / Mae Jo road area, two or three consecutive dry days seem to have been taken as a green light to every pyromaniac in the area. Sitting in my house I've had the smell of smoke for perhaps five days now and seen a definite deterioration of the air quality - you can see it lingering around the street lights after dusk. Fog it quite clearly is not.

[skoperism]

Yes it is definatly not fog,

And i dont think it coming from burmer or china. I know everytime I am on my bike around my apartment I smell burning and see smoke comining from lots of peoplese residents. I think its easy to blame this on sources that are out of the control of people in chang mai. But in reality I think alot of this polution comes from within chang mai itself.

[Ulysses G.]

The air seems quite good to me, but how about if all the local hypochondriacs start imagining how terrible it is and put it on the internet so we can spread false rumors and ruin another High Season!

[skoperism]

The air seems quite good to me, but how about if all the local hypochondriacs start imagining how terrible it is and put it on the internet so we can spread false rumors and ruin another High Season!

Oh what problem, theres no problem. Theres no polution in chang mai. It must be the other chang mai we are talking about here. Sorry I must have been confused.

[Bananaman]

The air seems quite good to me, but how about if all the local hypochondriacs start imagining how terrible it is and put it on the internet so we can spread false rumors and ruin another High Season!

Hypochondriacs?

No one mentioned anything about folk experiencing imaginary symptoms but rather indicated that there had been a decline in the air quality and that smoke had been witnessed by both the eyes and the olfactory senses; neither of the latter points being easily imagined.

You can scream false rumours all you like but as my mother taught me, what can't speak can't lie and the by-products of chao baan bonfires are clearly visible in the air in my part of town which at this stage in the year doesn't bode well for the high season.

[mcgriffith]

I agree wth lannarebirth. The quiet, subtle approach with our neighbors who burn is the way to go. And there is a municipal hotline to report pollution issues (sorry I can't post the number; look through the zillion posts from spring and you'll find it).

One thing to remember- we live in the Tropics, and vegetation/foliage grows at an amazing speed. Cut a tree down to a bare trunk- it's a big tree again, a year later . And the infrastructure (and money) simply does not exist to haul this all away. So it gets burned.

We are preaching to the choir here, with this issue. I don't think any of the farang on this forum are burning anything!

If you want to get involved in a positive way, find out if there is some local grassroots organization that is involved in education, and getting the word out about burning and its contribution to pollution. Go volunteer!

McG

[miltonbentley]

After posting at length on last weeks thread on this done to death topic I resolved to stay off this one - oh well another resolution broken.

Why did all you whingers come here? If the air in Chiang Mai is so unpleasant why don't you get back on your horse and bugger off and leave those of us who like it here in peace.

In the last thread Cyberstar put up the graphs for daily air quality and you all conveniently ignored that in favour of you personal observations of some domestic burning and a nostalgic reminiscence about something once heard on a radio in a Bangkok taxi.

The Air Quality Index today is 68 not brilliant but well within acceptable limits. It is hot, muggy and humid but you may have noticed that Chiang Mai is in the tropics and these conditions do occur from time to time. The city also sits in a valley and there is little prevailing wind to move the air about. If that is not to your taste leave.

We all would like to live in less polluted conditions but as I have stated before it is a complex and difficult issue and will not be resolved overnight and certainly nothing of value is added by this moaning on TV. If air quality is your deciding factor in where you live go to Zürich, Geneva, Vancouver or Auckland where you may find what you're looking for. Personally I'll take Chiang mai over them all and any other city in the world as a great place to live.

[Bananaman]

After posting at length on last weeks thread on this done to death topic I resolved to stay off this one - oh well another resolution broken.

Why did all you whingers come here? If the air in Chiang Mai is so unpleasant why don't you get back on your horse and bugger off and leave those of us who like it here in peace.

In the last thread Cyberstar put up the graphs for daily air quality and you all conveniently ignored that in favour of you personal observations of some domestic burning and a nostalgic reminiscence about something once heard on a radio in a Bangkok taxi.

The Air Quality Index today is 68 not brilliant but well within acceptable limits. It is hot, muggy and humid but you may have noticed that Chiang Mai is in the tropics and these conditions do occur from time to time. The city also sits in a valley and there is little prevailing wind to move the air about. If that is not to your taste leave.

We all would like to live in less polluted conditions but as I have stated before it is a complex and difficult issue and will not be resolved overnight and certainly nothing of value is added by this moaning on TV. If air quality is your deciding factor in where you live go to Zürich, Geneva, Vancouver or Auckland where you may find what you're looking for. Personally I'll take Chiang mai over them all and any other city in the world as a great place to live.

The absolutely typical "if you don't like it then leave" attitude.

Are you incapable of grasping the fact that it's entirely possible to live in a place while accepting that it has its faults and wanting to do something about improving them? Utopias don't exist unfortunately and hence even places that come close to paradise have their shortcomings. Is it really so bad to discuss what we, as individuals from countries not blighted by burning problems, might do to try and help improve the situation? Besides how pollution affects us on an individual basis, some of us care enough about Chiang Mai to want things to improve for the sake of the masses and don't enjoy reading about the numbers of folk treated for respiratory problems during the months of Jan/Feb/March. Sure we can pack our bags and leave for destinations with cleaner air, but how about all those people who have no chance to do that?

[miltonbentley]

The absolutely typical "if you don't like it then leave" attitude.

Are you incapable of grasping the fact that it's entirely possible to live in a place while accepting that it has its faults and wanting to do something about improving them? Utopias don't exist unfortunately and hence even places that come close to paradise have their shortcomings. Is it really so bad to discuss what we, as individuals from countries not blighted by burning problems, might do to try and help improve the situation? Besides how pollution affects us on an individual basis, some of us care enough about Chiang Mai to want things to improve for the sake of the masses and don't enjoy reading about the numbers of folk treated for respiratory problems during the months of Jan/Feb/March. Sure we can pack our bags and leave for destinations with cleaner air, but how about all those people who have no chance to do that?

Bananaman you have posted 3 times on this thread. You have moaned about the state of air quality but have offered us no clue as to how you personally or the government might improve the situation.

You say this -

Is it really so bad to discuss what we, as individuals from countries not blighted by burning problems, might do to try and help improve the situation?

Please point out where you have done this in the 395 words you have so far written on this thread. Even a sentence that might actually cut to the chase of the matter.

If you can put forward a reasoned, actionable proposal that will improve the situation I am sure we will all applaud you but the constant whinging adds nothing and actually causes damage to the people in this city that are trying to earn a living (and I am not speaking of Farangs I am referring to the Thai population.)

Put up or shut up

[miltonbentley]

I sympathize with the urgent desire to do something about the air pollution in Chiang Mai (did someone say 'crackdown'?) but I agree with lannarebirth's tack - a foreigner showing up in Chiang Mai or anywhere in Thailand & making a big stink about fixing something (pollution, corruption, you name it) is unlikely to be well received. There are more low key ways you can have an impact, as in by focusing subtly & calmly on increasing awareness in those around you. And in the meantime, at least for the near term, you have to accept that bad air for a couple of months is one of the downsides of living in Chiang Mai. I too try to spend most of March traveling, either back to the states or elsewhere.

This Bananaman is an example of a reasoned post.

[BlackArtemis]

GIant Ionic breezes atop the skyscrapers, and then we can hire burmese and hilltribes for 10baht per hour to wipe the blades every hour.

[Bananaman]

The absolutely typical "if you don't like it then leave" attitude.

Are you incapable of grasping the fact that it's entirely possible to live in a place while accepting that it has its faults and wanting to do something about improving them? Utopias don't exist unfortunately and hence even places that come close to paradise have their shortcomings. Is it really so bad to discuss what we, as individuals from countries not blighted by burning problems, might do to try and help improve the situation? Besides how pollution affects us on an individual basis, some of us care enough about Chiang Mai to want things to improve for the sake of the masses and don't enjoy reading about the numbers of folk treated for respiratory problems during the months of Jan/Feb/March. Sure we can pack our bags and leave for destinations with cleaner air, but how about all those people who have no chance to do that?

Bananaman you have posted 3 times on this thread. You have moaned about the state of air quality but have offered us no clue as to how you personally or the government might improve the situation.

You say this -

Is it really so bad to discuss what we, as individuals from countries not blighted by burning problems, might do to try and help improve the situation?

Please point out where you have done this in the 395 words you have so far written on this thread. Even a sentence that might actually cut to the chase of the matter.

If you can put forward a reasoned, actionable proposal that will improve the situation I am sure we will all applaud you but the constant whinging adds nothing and actually causes damage to the people in this city that are trying to earn a living (and I am not speaking of Farangs I am referring to the Thai population.)

Put up or shut up

At what point did I say I had all the answers? Find any sentence in my posts that says I have the solution. I merely defended the rights of TV'ers to have their say on what, despite your obvious boredom of it, continues to be a highly contentious issue, not only on this forum but in the lives of those who are immediately affected by it.

I think Mr. Milton Bentley, somewhere along the way, you've forgotten what this forum is for. It's not all about the in-crowd slapping each other on the back and telling each other what a mighty fine job they're doing with their bar/restaurant/export business. It is, among other things, a place for people to vent their spleens. The title of this topic was fairly self explanatory, nobody forced you to open it and read "yet another thread about the pollution problem in Chiang Mai". If you don't like such threads then steer well clear of them, it's not rocket science mate.

[realthaideal]

Discussion good. Getting mean, not good.

Whining not good.

As Mc Spicy has pointed out, there is alot up on the forum about this topic already. We had a gooooood couple months to contemplate the problem and the international media attention it garnered. There were a host of solutions put up along with plenty panic and bitching and moaning.

I said and still stand by - along with whatever others have said - that we can only improve things locally if we act along with the Thais in a proactive manner that does not cause a loss of face. The last thing they want is foreigners coming and telling them how they'd do it if they could run the show for them.

This being said, I propose that those of us with connections to anybody in a governing position or who knows a member of the royal family - either BKK or local, as both hold sway in the hearts and minds of the people - should try to propose something in the way of starting composting or vermiculture programs here. The locals need to learn of the benefits of these non-polluting way of returning the nutrients to the soil. Of course this can be done on a per household basis, or on a regional basis. Both require funding and education, and thus the help of those in power either by royal lineage, or elected officials. Many are interested. But like this forum here, actual thoughtful proposals of what how n who need to be put together in order for the discussion to be productive.

And I'm sure in it's own good Thai way it's happening. I hope the youth are getting pollution education. Another way to really change things in the long term. Though that could be 15-30 years away.......

[miltonbentley]

Discussion good. Getting mean, not good.

Whining not good.

As Mc Spicy has pointed out, there is alot up on the forum about this topic already. We had a gooooood couple months to contemplate the problem and the international media attention it garnered. There were a host of solutions put up along with plenty panic and bitching and moaning.

I said and still stand by - along with whatever others have said - that we can only improve things locally if we act along with the Thais in a proactive manner that does not cause a loss of face. The last thing they want is foreigners coming and telling them how they'd do it if they could run the show for them.

This being said, I propose that those of us with connections to anybody in a governing position or who knows a member of the royal family - either BKK or local, as both hold sway in the hearts and minds of the people - should try to propose something in the way of starting composting or vermiculture programs here. The locals need to learn of the benefits of these non-polluting way of returning the nutrients to the soil. Of course this can be done on a per household basis, or on a regional basis. Both require funding and education, and thus the help of those in power either by royal lineage, or elected officials. Many are interested. But like this forum here, actual thoughtful proposals of what how n who need to be put together in order for the discussion to be productive.

And I'm sure in it's own good Thai way it's happening. I hope the youth are getting pollution education. Another way to really change things in the long term. Though that could be 15-30 years away.......

Agree with every word. Good post

[realthaideal]

Thanks, Milton B. Count me in next time you cook up a batch of vanilla slices, eh ? When I dated the Aussie girl, learning about snot blocks was probably one of the best things about the relationship. Seem easy enough to make too. You wanna pm me a recipe that would be nice. .... I heard Crowy got his as fast as he could. Anyway, I know food alot more than I know politics and pollution.

[miltonbentley]

Thanks, Milton B. Count me in next time you cook up a batch of vanilla slices, eh ? When I dated the Aussie girl, learning about snot blocks was probably one of the best things about the relationship. Seem easy enough to make too. You wanna pm me a recipe that would be nice. .... I heard Crowy got his as fast as he could. Anyway, I know food alot more than I know politics and pollution.

Sadly said vanilla slices have nothing to do with me. A crossed wire somewhere but I am sure CB will set you straight.

[lannarebirth]

In the United States, where I'm from, there are forests so vast, and forest fires of such magnitude, it would make the annual fire total in SE Asia seem puny in comparison. The difference is, the US dossn't have large population centers around these forests, and most reasonable people accept that the tradeoff for living in a place of such natural beauty is the occasional forest fire, which can wreak havoc on property and lives.

For me, living in a city, any city, is too dirty, noisy, crowded. I don't single Chiang Mai out as being any better or worse. I came for the natural beauty that surrounds it.

I became part of my community here, and I've been granted a greater voice there than befits my residence status. I'm grateful for that, and for what little changes we've instituted in a single year. I will cotinue in these pursuits to educate my neighbors about the risks of bad burning practices and don't miss an opportunity to encourage my village, sub-district and district leaders to do the same. It is the only way I know, that change may come about. If you're not doing the same, than one wonders why you would stay.

[Ulysses G.]

What pisses me off is those posters that make a mountain out of a mole hull and make the situation seem much worse than it is and scare off future tourists.

Chiang Mai has a very slight pollution problem some of the year and last year we had a very bad problem for a very short time but it hurt the tourist industry for the next 6 months even though things had gone back to normal after just a few days.

Will we have it again this year? Who knows, it never happened before that I can remember – not like that - and we haven't had another Tsunami, have we?

Yes, I have a business and I don’t want people to think of Chiang Mai as some sort of polluted mess. I want tourists to want to come here and there is no reason why they shouldn’t.

If you are paranoid get some medication; Wild speculation on the Internet hurts a lot of of us, and doesn’t help anybody!

[Loom]

I doubt very many potential tourists will google "chiang mai pollution" before booking a trip. Maybe there are other reasons explaining why tourism is down. Anyhow, dangerous, environmental disaster and crisis were terms used by reporters citing Thai authorities in googled articles.

The project discussed below is funded by a small grant and probably won't have much of an impact. But it is a step in the right direction.

July 27, 2007

U.S. Embassy Funds Project to Promote Civic Involvement in Air Quality Improvement

A Chiang Mai project to increase public awareness and involvement in air quality improvement has won funding support from the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok. With a $7,875 grant from the Embassy, the Urban Development Institute Foundation (UDIF) aims to promote civic involvement in the improvement of the environment, especially air quality. The project will focus on Tambon Ban Waen, Hang Dong District, a community selected by UDIF because of the high number of air pollution complaints submitted to the Region 1 Environmental Office and the Tambon Administrative Organization (TAO).

The project will be carried out Aug 1, 2007 through July 31, 2008. Activities planned under the grant include helping villagers understand the impact of air pollution on health and the economy and what they can do to avoid burning.

In conducting the project, UDIF will partner with the Join Hands/Join Hearts to Improve Chiang Mai and Lamphun Air Quality Project of the Social Research Institute, Chiang Mai University. The Foundation will also work with the people and Tambon Administrative Organization (TAO) of Ban Waen as well as real estate developers and other businesses in the area.

[lannarebirth]

I doubt very many potential tourists will google "chiang mai pollution" before booking a trip. Maybe there are other reasons explaining why tourism is down. Anyhow, dangerous, environmental disaster and crisis were terms used by reporters citing Thai authorities in googled articles.

The project discussed below is funded by a small grant and probably won't have much of an impact. But it is a step in the right direction.

July 27, 2007

U.S. Embassy Funds Project to Promote Civic Involvement in Air Quality Improvement

A Chiang Mai project to increase public awareness and involvement in air quality improvement has won funding support from the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok. With a $7,875 grant from the Embassy, the Urban Development Institute Foundation (UDIF) aims to promote civic involvement in the improvement of the environment, especially air quality. The project will focus on Tambon Ban Waen, Hang Dong District, a community selected by UDIF because of the high number of air pollution complaints submitted to the Region 1 Environmental Office and the Tambon Administrative Organization (TAO).

The project will be carried out Aug 1, 2007 through July 31, 2008. Activities planned under the grant include helping villagers understand the impact of air pollution on health and the economy and what they can do to avoid burning.

In conducting the project, UDIF will partner with the Join Hands/Join Hearts to Improve Chiang Mai and Lamphun Air Quality Project of the Social Research Institute, Chiang Mai University. The Foundation will also work with the people and Tambon Administrative Organization (TAO) of Ban Waen as well as real estate developers and other businesses in the area.

That's what it takes. It's a small start, but that's how all things start, small. I encourage everyone to get involved to the extent that they can. Bitching about it solves nothing.

Edited September 25, 2007 by lannarebirth

[chownah]

How to clean up the air polution in Chiangmai?........double the price of vehicle fuels through taxation and use the proceeds to fund public transportation and monitors to enforce laws against illegal burning.

[skoperism]

Well, We all want to clean up the Air, And I am sure some of us have some resources, time and some ideas on how we can do it. Planing on a form is useless. In a week this topic will be dissapeared into the depths of the Internet. I have put a google group together. This will allow us to discuss this issue, keep all information about the topic in one place, keep up to date on this issue formulate plans and ideas that could possibly help solve the problem. Im sure eveyone has something they can input. Ideas, contacts or whatever. You can join up here. http://groups.google.com/group/cleanupchiangmaisair/

[miltonbentley]

This thread has improved out of all recognition since realthaideal's post. At last people are putting forward positive suggestions. I agree with Lannarebirth's method that positive encouragement and persuasion is a good way people can contribute on an individual basis.

Skoperism, the Google Group is an excellent idea and I hope you get a lot of interest I will certainly be looking in to see if there is any way I can contribute perhaps you can link with Join Hands/Join Hearts to Improve Chiang Mai and Lamphun Air Quality Project of the Social Research Institute in some way?

[skoperism]

Nothing on group yet. Wanted to create while the irons hot and get people to join up so please join up now.

https://www.google.com/groups/signin?cd=US&...air%2Fsubscribe