Teacher Bashing

[mr_hippo]

In my experience, as a teacher in the States and here, the folks who teach best are the ones who set up the best "learning situations" for the students.

It's not about holding forth on the subjunctive mood, it's more about being creative with your teaching method. A knowledge of grammar doesn't necessarily correlate with that.

Whilst not totally disagreeing with you, how would you answer a student if you did not know the answer?

a) I don't know.

It doesn't matter.

c) I am your teacher and I am right.

d) It just is.

I have heard those in the classroom and many more.

I have seen a native speaker write is'n't and arguing with the students that it was the correct spelling!

Teaching native speakers is vastly different to teaching non-native speakers. With two native speaking parents, the child is immersed in the language and learns a lot of grammar before going to school, doesn't know the technical terms but can construct grammatically correct sentences. Some smarta55 is thinking about posting "But my parents did not teach me grammar." Not in the formal sense of the word, Mum never put me to bed with "Before your bedtime story, we will do split infinitives." So if you do not know the basics, how can you teach it?

Mr Hippo O.F.a.L.L.

[maccaroni man]

Excuse me, but this is Thailand, where even the properly qualified Thai teachers of English have (generally) poor command of English, the wrong methods of teaching, are overworked and underpaid, etc. If all farang teachers of Schminglishche had to have a bachelor's in education with a major in English, you'd have to pay them 120,000 baht per month or more, plus incredible benefits. The only farang teachers like that are almost all in true international schools. Thai students don't need a B.Ed./M.Ed/properly certificated real, live teacher. They need a reasonable acting native speaker of English, with a TEFL certificate or two years of experience teaching, to teach English in almost all Thai schools.

And you'd be amazed how many thousands of such 'qualified native speaking English teachers' are here, being abused by the system. Kudos to them; congratulations to them for giving students (such as children of ThaiVisa members) some real knowledge of proper English and other subjects.

My issue is with the schools that hire tefl teachers to teach my children all subjects and the language "teachers" that present themselves as qualified educators with no certificates in education. Lesson plans, course objectives etc..... are aspects of teaching that comes from professional training and not a 30 day course. IS this bashing?

[lost_in_space]

In my experience, as a teacher in the States and here, the folks who teach best are the ones who set up the best "learning situations" for the students.

It's not about holding forth on the subjunctive mood, it's more about being creative with your teaching method. A knowledge of grammar doesn't necessarily correlate with that.

Whilst not totally disagreeing with you, how would you answer a student if you did not know the answer?

a) I don't know.

It doesn't matter.

c) I am your teacher and I am right.

d) It just is.

I have heard those in the classroom and many more.

I have seen a native speaker write is'n't and arguing with the students that it was the correct spelling!

Teaching native speakers is vastly different to teaching non-native speakers. With two native speaking parents, the child is immersed in the language and learns a lot of grammar before going to school, doesn't know the technical terms but can construct grammatically correct sentences. Some smarta55 is thinking about posting "But my parents did not teach me grammar." Not in the formal sense of the word, Mum never put me to bed with "Before your bedtime story, we will do split infinitives." So if you do not know the basics, how can you teach it?

Mr Hippo O.F.a.L.L.

One time a student asked me to explain the future perfect; just for a joke I did it. His eyes glassed over and he stopped asking silly questions. Then they used it in an activity, and badda-boom, it sunk in. People acquire languages, they don't learn them. If they did, Thai teachers would be more productive.

As for C) another way to put that is "I am a native speaker and that's what I say, trust me."

As for the "is'n't" example, well, he was a nincompoop. He ought to have been grateful he had students who were paying attention and should have taken a "let's find out" attitude. I have a degree in Linguistics, an MA (in something else) and a teaching credential, and I make mistakes in the classroom on the rare occasion The important thing is to be open to your students; not a quality you necessarily get with your uni degree.

I'm not so sure teaching (subject matter) to native speakers is vastly different from teaching English to non-native speakers. Much of the pedagogy is transferable, especially the teacher-centered v. student centered idea, and cooperative learning methods.

[elkangorito]

..... I was posted to the Australian Defence Force school of languages at RAAF Point Cook in Victoria to undertake a 44 week intensive Thai language course.....

Just slightly off topic, I served in 32 Radio Apprentice Squadron at Laverton during the 1970's.

But besides that, I'm a teacher in Thailand & even though I get about 25k per month, I wouldn't choose anything else (yet). As opposed to my previous job in Australia, I wake up every morning & got to 'work' with a smile on my face. The same smile is on my face when I arrive back home.

[Neeranam]

One reason seems to be that the teacher bashers never got any tertiary qualifications, so couldn't teach themselves even if they wanted.

[AmericanGuy1066]

Stickman deserves little respect or credit, and has done more than most to tarnish ESL teachers with his own brush.

Think you crystallised the point quite well there. Internet, and sites like Stickman in particular, have really been a key factor in propagating the English teaching and sex industry combination, and stigmas.

Quote from Stickman's column today 30 Sep, from his opening piece:

...

I remember one such guy, an American in his mid 40s with a distinctive look. He was slim, had an old-fashioned haircut and he always wore the same red and black checked shirt. He loved Thailand. He was here for the nightlife. In fact as I recall that was his only reason for being here.

His finances were getting low but he had no desire to return to the States. That was the last thing he wanted. It'd be fear to say that he dreaded the thought of returning to the US.

One night he and I were chatting and he asked me for some advice. I’d been getting a bit annoyed by him and some of my answers were a bit short. I seem to be a bit of an idiot magnet at times but I'm not the most patient of people - and my tolerance of fools isn't great. He explained that his finances had almost run out and that he had no ticket back to the States - and no intention of returning. His question was simple. What should he do?

I pointed out that he needed to get a job, but he responded that that was not an option. I told him there was always a demand for native-speaking English teachers, and that there was no shortage of work available and he could almost certainly get a teaching position the next day. ...

It was raised earlier what's the difference between teaching and other professions, in terms of whoremongerers. This highlights how if you're not qualified or fit to do anything else, teaching is often an option.

I think that sums up pretty well the sort of reasons teacher bashing comes up. It's unfair to tar all with the same brush, and harsh on some of the dedicated teachers who do a good job, but there's a few good reasons for where the stigmas and bashings comes from.

Edited September 30, 2007 by AmericanGuy1066

[southerndog]

My issue is with the schools that hire tefl teachers to teach my children all subjects and the language "teachers" that present themselves as qualified educators with no certificates in education. Lesson plans, course objectives etc..... are aspects of teaching that comes from professional training and not a 30 day course. IS this bashing?

Just curious, I have a BS and MS in mathematics, but no training in education, would you consider me qualified to teach your children math?

[mrtoad]

I think one way to improve the image of Farang teachers is to ensure that they all are at least graduates with real academic degrees.

What a great Quote.

Most of the teachers I have met bought their degress on the Kao San Road or via the internet,if they do have a degree than they get wasted most nights on either drugs or drink.

If you wanted to teach in you home country,take the UK ,you would need a Degree and a 1 year teaching qualification to boot.

I wish you all the best and I hope that your skills and experience bring something positive to whichever school you may choose to work in.

Here is the first Greek Troll

When you use the word "most" make sure that you are certain about it. I will assume that you read Stickman and all the other sensationalist stories that portray ESL teacehers as such.

You obviously keep company with the sort of people that "most"of us ESL teachers try to avoid. When you find them please tell me where they hide out as i haven't come across many and I don't intend to.

Edited September 30, 2007 by mrtoad

[maccaroni man]

My issue is with the schools that hire tefl teachers to teach my children all subjects and the language "teachers" that present themselves as qualified educators with no certificates in education. Lesson plans, course objectives etc..... are aspects of teaching that comes from professional training and not a 30 day course. IS this bashing?

Just curious, I have a BS and MS in mathematics, but no training in education, would you consider me qualified to teach your children math?

The question is, do you feel qualified to call yourself a teacher?

[JimsKnight]

I don't think teachers are attacked because they work for less money but because a lot of them are not exactly qualified and came to Thailand as sexpats, ran out of money and go into teaching to finance their whore mongering existence.

Or so the story goes.

And this is why all teachers are often tarred with the same brush, unfortunately.

I personally know some absolute saints-amongst-men teachers, I also know some complete scum who seem to want to re-invent the word 'low-life' to plump new depths!

Until ultra-efficient vetting procedures are introduced the teacher-bashing will continue.

[mrtoad]

Stickman deserves little respect or credit, and has done more than most to tarnish ESL teachers with his own brush.

Think you crystallised the point quite well there. Internet, and sites like Stickman in particular, have really been a key factor in propagating the English teaching and sex industry combination, and stigmas.

Quote from Stickman's column today 30 Sep, from his opening piece:

...

I remember one such guy, an American in his mid 40s with a distinctive look. He was slim, had an old-fashioned haircut and he always wore the same red and black checked shirt. He loved Thailand. He was here for the nightlife. In fact as I recall that was his only reason for being here.

His finances were getting low but he had no desire to return to the States. That was the last thing he wanted. It'd be fear to say that he dreaded the thought of returning to the US.

One night he and I were chatting and he asked me for some advice. I’d been getting a bit annoyed by him and some of my answers were a bit short. I seem to be a bit of an idiot magnet at times but I'm not the most patient of people - and my tolerance of fools isn't great. He explained that his finances had almost run out and that he had no ticket back to the States - and no intention of returning. His question was simple. What should he do?

I pointed out that he needed to get a job, but he responded that that was not an option. I told him there was always a demand for native-speaking English teachers, and that there was no shortage of work available and he could almost certainly get a teaching position the next day. ...

It was raised earlier what's the difference between teaching and other professions, in terms of whoremongerers. This highlights how if you're not qualified or fit to do anything else, teaching is often an option.

I think that sums up pretty well the sort of reasons teacher bashing comes up. It's unfair to tar all with the same brush, and harsh on some of the dedicated teachers who do a good job, but there's a few good reasons for where the stigmas and bashings comes from.

No it doesn't highlight anything at all. You have have used one example to back up a pretty lame argument Do you believe everything that the discredited Stickman has to say? As PB has already mentioned teaching is not an easy option, and the type of pisshead that you think exists, is in the minority.The reason, because it is not an easy option. No different than it was in my previous "exhalted" profession.

[AmericanGuy1066]

Stickman deserves little respect or credit, and has done more than most to tarnish ESL teachers with his own brush.

Think you crystallised the point quite well there. Internet, and sites like Stickman in particular, have really been a key factor in propagating the English teaching and sex industry combination, and stigmas.

Quote from Stickman's column today 30 Sep, from his opening piece:

...

I remember one such guy, an American in his mid 40s with a distinctive look. He was slim, had an old-fashioned haircut and he always wore the same red and black checked shirt. He loved Thailand. He was here for the nightlife. In fact as I recall that was his only reason for being here.

His finances were getting low but he had no desire to return to the States. That was the last thing he wanted. It'd be fear to say that he dreaded the thought of returning to the US.

One night he and I were chatting and he asked me for some advice. I'd been getting a bit annoyed by him and some of my answers were a bit short. I seem to be a bit of an idiot magnet at times but I'm not the most patient of people - and my tolerance of fools isn't great. He explained that his finances had almost run out and that he had no ticket back to the States - and no intention of returning. His question was simple. What should he do?

I pointed out that he needed to get a job, but he responded that that was not an option. I told him there was always a demand for native-speaking English teachers, and that there was no shortage of work available and he could almost certainly get a teaching position the next day. ...

It was raised earlier what's the difference between teaching and other professions, in terms of whoremongerers. This highlights how if you're not qualified or fit to do anything else, teaching is often an option.

I think that sums up pretty well the sort of reasons teacher bashing comes up. It's unfair to tar all with the same brush, and harsh on some of the dedicated teachers who do a good job, but there's a few good reasons for where the stigmas and bashings comes from.

No it doesn't highlight anything at all. You have have used one example to back up a pretty lame argument Do you believe everything that the discredited Stickman has to say? As PB has already mentioned teaching is not an easy option, and the type of pisshead that you think exists, is in the minority.The reason, because it is not an easy option. No different than it was in my previous "exhalted" profession.

Try reading my post again. Perhaps with a little less emotion. I guess it's not an objective subject to you, as it is to me. I didn't say I agree with everything Stickman says at all. I actually said it's unfair to tar all with the same brush, as there are some good dedicated teachers.

I did say it sums up the type of thinking why teachers get a bashing. This is by no means my own view

The one small bit he is correct on is that if you can't do anything else in Thailand, teaching may be an option. Emphasis on the word may. Teaching is the easiest profession in Thailand to get a job in. That small part is correct.

To clarify further. I think the guy is a bit of a d**k, but in fairness there is some interesting stuff on his site from time to time - though this is mostly stuff not related to the sex industry He also has a few hundred thousand people read his website. Enough to promote the idea of English teachers being closely linked to whoremongers wouldn't you say? If you've ever read any of the reader's submissions in addition to his own weekly column both of which get a reasonable amount of traffic, it's no big surprise English teaching gets associated with the sex industry. I'd repeat it's harsh on those good teachers but the links between English teaching and sex industry are definitely there. He's probably the best known English teacher in Thailand. He's also spent a large amount of time looking at the sex industry, and thinks he is a bit of an authority on it. Perhaps he is, bt who cares. I find it a bit weird myself someone wants to highlight there sexploits on the web. Stickman claims its from an anthropolgical angle, which is obviously bull 5h*t, particularly in his earlier days which I think someone mentioned above. But unfortunately he reflects on others in teaching.

Edited September 30, 2007 by AmericanGuy1066

[Jersey_UK]

Teaching Bashing?

Grrrrrrrrrrreat OK, here's my go

Nice to hear about an English teacher who can speak the local lingo..........I am always amazed that many teachers of English in Thailand do not consider being able to talk and explain to their students important if not essential to being a "good" Teacher.......strangely this attitude seems restricted to those who do not speak Thai

Can't say I would ever pay someone to learn Thai who could not also explain in English to me.......seems like a waste of my time and money. IMO No mutual communication skills is ok in a BG, but not with a Lawyer.

How was that?

[mrtoad]

Stickman deserves little respect or credit, and has done more than most to tarnish ESL teachers with his own brush.

Think you crystallised the point quite well there. Internet, and sites like Stickman in particular, have really been a key factor in propagating the English teaching and sex industry combination, and stigmas.

Quote from Stickman's column today 30 Sep, from his opening piece:

...

I remember one such guy, an American in his mid 40s with a distinctive look. He was slim, had an old-fashioned haircut and he always wore the same red and black checked shirt. He loved Thailand. He was here for the nightlife. In fact as I recall that was his only reason for being here.

His finances were getting low but he had no desire to return to the States. That was the last thing he wanted. It'd be fear to say that he dreaded the thought of returning to the US.

One night he and I were chatting and he asked me for some advice. I'd been getting a bit annoyed by him and some of my answers were a bit short. I seem to be a bit of an idiot magnet at times but I'm not the most patient of people - and my tolerance of fools isn't great. He explained that his finances had almost run out and that he had no ticket back to the States - and no intention of returning. His question was simple. What should he do?

I pointed out that he needed to get a job, but he responded that that was not an option. I told him there was always a demand for native-speaking English teachers, and that there was no shortage of work available and he could almost certainly get a teaching position the next day. ...

It was raised earlier what's the difference between teaching and other professions, in terms of whoremongerers. This highlights how if you're not qualified or fit to do anything else, teaching is often an option.

I think that sums up pretty well the sort of reasons teacher bashing comes up. It's unfair to tar all with the same brush, and harsh on some of the dedicated teachers who do a good job, but there's a few good reasons for where the stigmas and bashings comes from.

No it doesn't highlight anything at all. You have have used one example to back up a pretty lame argument Do you believe everything that the discredited Stickman has to say? As PB has already mentioned teaching is not an easy option, and the type of pisshead that you think exists, is in the minority.The reason, because it is not an easy option. No different than it was in my previous "exhalted" profession.

Try reading my post again. Perhaps with a little less emotion. I guess it's not an objective subject to you, as it is to me. I didn't say I agree with everything Stickman says at all. I actually said it's unfair to tar all with the same brush, as there are some good dedicated teachers.

I did say it sums up the type of thinking why teachers get a bashing. This is by no means my own view

The one small bit he is correct on is that if you can't do anything else in Thailand, teaching may be an option. Emphasis on the word may. Teaching is the easiest profession in Thailand to get a job in. That small part is correct.

To clarify further. I think the guy is a bit of a d**k, but in fairness there is some interesting stuff on his site from time to time - though this is mostly stuff not related to the sex industry He also has a few hundred thousand people read his website. If you've ever read any of the reader's submissions in addition to his own weely column both of which get a reasonable amount of traffic, it's no big surprise English teaching gets associated with the sex industry. I'd repeat it's harsh on those good teachers but the links between English teaching and sex industry are definitely there. He's probably the best known English teacher in Thailand. He's also spent a large amount of time looking at the sex industry. He claims form an anthropolgical angle, which is obviously bull 5h*t. But unfortunately he reflects on others in teaching.

Sorry, I don't have much emotion about the subject.

My main issue is that teaching English in Thailand has become entwined Stickman who is a disgrace to the profession. A simple question, if Beverley Allit had a website would you give it any creedence? I use an extreme reference, as that is what most teacher bashers use when attacking ESL teachers in Thailand.

It may be, or may not be easy to obtain a post, but keeping it may be very different. Try spending your day with 30 + kids, certainly not an option for the hardened drinker to maintain.

I agree, that there are some interesting points on his website, but it is hardly anything worth basing an argument on, and I feel that he has done a great diservice to the teachers in Thailand in general.

If that wasn't the case we woouldn't be discussing it now.

Anyway, I think we are probably a lot closer on our opinions than you believe, and I certainly do not let my emotions get the better of my objectivity. I am all for improving standards.

Well, have to go, as an early morning flight to S'pore beckons

P.S. No responsibility for grammar or typos, as I have been a very bad teacher this evening and indulged in having a couple of beers and emphasising what a tool Stickman is.

[mrtoad]

Teaching Bashing?

Grrrrrrrrrrreat OK, here's my go

Nice to hear about an English teacher who can speak the local lingo..........I am always amazed that many teachers of English in Thailand do not consider being able to talk and explain to their students important if not essential to being a "good" Teacher.......strangely this attitude seems restricted to those who do not speak Thai

Can't say I would ever pay someone to learn Thai who could not also explain in English to me.......seems like a waste of my time and money. IMO No mutual communication skills is ok in a BG, but not with a Lawyer.

How was that?

A very poor effort, but considering that you don't know the difference between Bognor and Bangor not suprising.

[PeaceBlondie]

Teaching a language as foreign does not, generally, require any knowledge of the local language. That's standard philosophy and methodology. Believe it or not, it more or less works. But I disagree a little: if I move to Mexico, you can be sure I will do the classroom discipline in standard Spanish. Not necessary, but helpful.

Yes, even a hopeless drunk can get hired if he's not reeking of rotgut whiskey during his interview. But those 49+ classes in the hot rooms, lack of supplies, no support, no visa, no work permit, administrators and faculty who have no idea of your predicament, etc., will have that drunk drunk all day, skipping his classes, teaching not at all, etc.

If you have children in the regular Thai public school systems, I pity you and your kids - not because of the teachers themselves (Thai or farang), but because the entire system is rotten to the core and teaches little if at all, crippling your children forever.

[Morden]

Oh dear! This thread started well enough but what a mess it is now. Those who know about teaching or who have a balanced view to offer are being shouted down by yahoo attacks that seem to be based on the premise 'Don't confuse me with facts. I've got an loud-mouthed, ignorant attitude and I don't want to hear anything that gets in its way'.

Those posters who teach are making a reasoned and articulate contribution and so are some others. They deserve to be acknowledged with respect. Perhaps some of the other contributions are alcohol fuelled. Perhaps, on the other hand, some posters failed to pay attention at school and fear the possibility that the local shop assistant might one day be more proficient than are they in their own language. I also suspect that some posters know as little about Thailand as they seem to know about teaching and English grammar and spelling.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'd say this thread has a pretty limited shelf life, if I were a betting man.

[AmericanGuy1066]

...

Anyway, I think we are probably a lot closer on our opinions than you believe, ....

...

That's why I ased you to reread what I wrote. I think we were saying a lot of similar things. Not being an English teacher myself, I probably didn't write it too well. Unfortunately while there's a lot of good guys in the profession, there's at least a few strange apples

And to OP. Good luck to you. Was just pointing it out the type of stigmas you're up against. That said you also seem like the type of guy that can handle the stigmas and cheap shots that will get thrown your way.

[Jersey_UK]

Teaching Bashing?

Grrrrrrrrrrreat OK, here's my go

Nice to hear about an English teacher who can speak the local lingo..........I am always amazed that many teachers of English in Thailand do not consider being able to talk and explain to their students important if not essential to being a "good" Teacher.......strangely this attitude seems restricted to those who do not speak Thai

Can't say I would ever pay someone to learn Thai who could not also explain in English to me.......seems like a waste of my time and money. IMO No mutual communication skills is ok in a BG, but not with a Lawyer.

How was that?

A very poor effort, but considering that you don't know the difference between Bognor and Bangor not suprising.

"Bugger Bognor"

[FarangNoi21]

people don't knock teaching, they knock the salary. Thailand is a great place, but 30k baht really is a small amount of money for the type of work required for teaching (assuming you are doing a good job). anyways, good luck and they really should start paying you more.

[Nickthegreek]

I think one way to improve the image of Farang teachers is to ensure that they all are at least graduates with real academic degrees.

What a great Quote.

Most of the teachers I have met bought their degress on the Kao San Road or via the internet,if they do have a degree than they get wasted most nights on either drugs or drink.

If you wanted to teach in you home country,take the UK ,you would need a Degree and a 1 year teaching qualification to boot.

I wish you all the best and I hope that your skills and experience bring something positive to whichever school you may choose to work in.

Here is the first Greek Troll

When you use the word "most" make sure that you are certain about it. I will assume that you read Stickman and all the other sensationalist stories that portray ESL teacehers as such.

You obviously keep company with the sort of people that "most"of us ESL teachers try to avoid. When you find them please tell me where they hide out as i haven't come across many and I don't intend to.

I will add at this juncture,I do not keep company with these idiots exactlly for the reasons listed. As I stated, "MOST" of the teachers I have met,but certainly not all,I have actually met two,who were not in the catagory mentioned.It is however a shame that they are the minority in around 20 where I reside.

I fail to see why I need to be referred to as a Greek Troll, unless I have hit a raw nerve with you? from a teacher I would expect you to be more constructive, in your conversational thread.

Lets try to keep it constructive,I am intitled to my opinion/output...!!!!

Ps, I make no excuse for my spelling of Grammer...!!! I am not a teacher..!!

Edited October 1, 2007 by Nickthegreek

[mr_hippo]

One time a student asked me to explain the future perfect; just for a joke I did it. A student asked you a perfectly legitimate question and you treated it as a joke?

People acquire languages, they don't learn them...... People acquire their native tongue; other languages may be acquired but it will take longer than your native tongue because your brain is hard wired to your native tongue (that's only one linguistic theory). If people are not taught languages, tell me how I acquired Latin (to a high academic standard)?

As for C) another way to put that is "I am a native speaker and that's what I say, trust me. "Why should I or anyone else 'trust you'?

Mr Hippo O.F.a.L.L.

[Dr. Burrito]

Excuse me, but this is Thailand, where even the properly qualified Thai teachers of English have (generally) poor command of English, the wrong methods of teaching, are overworked and underpaid, etc. If all farang teachers of Schminglishche had to have a bachelor's in education with a major in English, you'd have to pay them 120,000 baht per month or more, plus incredible benefits. The only farang teachers like that are almost all in true international schools. Thai students don't need a B.Ed./M.Ed/properly certificated real, live teacher. They need a reasonable acting native speaker of English, with a TEFL certificate or two years of experience teaching, to teach English in almost all Thai schools.

And you'd be amazed how many thousands of such 'qualified native speaking English teachers' are here, being abused by the system. Kudos to them; congratulations to them for giving students (such as children of ThaiVisa members) some real knowledge of proper English and other subjects.

I'm sorry Peace, but I beg to differ. Using the negative of the Thai system to validate and rationalize another negative makes it no less a negative. Teaching is indeed an honorable profession, and the professionals spend years learning not only the subjects they teach, but the art and focus of teaching itself, not six weeks in a small room in Bangkok listening to some parrot telling them how it is done.

This is why there is so much teacher bashing and why my children's education is about to become more expensive. My oldest, still a small tyke, is enrolled in a supposedly well respected bilingual program. While it is not the most expensive program in Thailand, it's certainly not the least expensive either. I met my little boy's farang teacher. Wouldn't you know it, he is a nice young chap from Denmark with the English skills of someone from Denmark, okay in other words, but far from the mark. He was quite uncomfortable with me asking about his certifications.

While I applaud people wanting to pitch in and help with needs in Thailand, at least call it what it is, the only substitute most can afford or have access to, rather than calling it proper teaching. For my part, I wish the Board of Education would be honest and let people teach under TEFL certification only, have the schools post the facts of that being the only proper training they have as teachers and go from there. While some of the lads and lasses teaching here might be naturals, I am thinking that is in the minority, so with some six week program being the bulk of people's guide, there must be a lot of trial and error in learning the skills of teaching under the guise of professional, competent services.

Now I have to start saving my cash for real, as I want mu children to have the benefits of professionally trained teachers, no less than any other profession providing critical services needing properly trained and vetted people.

So if that is teacher bashing so be it, but at least I do believe it is reasonable.

Dr. B

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, Dr. Burrito; I agree (well, that doesn't mean I was wrong, but... ).

For parents such as you, who value the teaching of English so highlyl that even a bilingual preschool with a poorly trained Dane being the 'teacher' isn't good enough, you'll have to scrape up a lot of extra baht to find a better primary school.

I am not suggesting high school grads with poor command of English should teach, anywhere. I think a BA in any subject, and a TEFL cert or two years' real experience, is sufficient for a native speaker to teach conversational and basic English (even intermediate) in 95% of the secondary schools in Thailand. The bilingual schools already had, I thought, stricter standards, but you never really know until you find out otherwise. If you absolutely must have fully trained professional educators with B.Ed. and Western certification, you'll have to pay very very high tuition at the true international schools where salaries start at 120,000 baht per month plus benefits.

When you actually find a particular individual who is pretending to be a teacher, but doesn't even have minimal qualifications and is doing a lousy job, he can be bashed, surely.

[midasthailand]

Figured it was time for a bit more input from me. I would like to say thanks to those of you who have wished me luck in my chosen path and to those of you who have come up with valid reasons why teachers tend to get bashed. Having read the thread, I guess I now have a better feel for why there are some negative perceptions about farang teachers of English in Thailand. I must admit that prior to reading this thread I had never heard of Stickman, but it would seem that his site has a lot to do with the perception that all male teachers of English are here more for the extracurricular activities than the teaching?

Unfortunately for me, I will have to settle for teaching in a Government school, as I have no formal teaching qualifications apart from TEFL (a qualification that a few posters seem to think is not worth the paper it is written on). I do however have five tertiary qualifications in Electronics (3), Leadership and Management and Thai language. I do not have a job to go to, but have a mate who works with Siam Computer and he believes that they will hire me in a heartbeat. It is my intention to have a holiday for a few weeks first, then start searching for a job, then find somewhere to live that wont require a 4 hour commute every day.

I must admit that I wasn't aware that my original post would garner so many responses, but so far it has been a good read and a bit of fun, so I'm glad I put it up.

Again thanks to those that wished me luck.

Cheers and beers

[Morden]

Figured it was time for a bit more input from me. I would like to say thanks to those of you who have wished me luck in my chosen path and to those of you who have come up with valid reasons why teachers tend to get bashed. Having read the thread, I guess I now have a better feel for why there are some negative perceptions about farang teachers of English in Thailand. I must admit that prior to reading this thread I had never heard of Stickman, but it would seem that his site has a lot to do with the perception that all male teachers of English are here more for the extracurricular activities than the teaching?

Unfortunately for me, I will have to settle for teaching in a Government school, as I have no formal teaching qualifications apart from TEFL (a qualification that a few posters seem to think is not worth the paper it is written on). I do however have five tertiary qualifications in Electronics (3), Leadership and Management and Thai language. I do not have a job to go to, but have a mate who works with Siam Computer and he believes that they will hire me in a heartbeat. It is my intention to have a holiday for a few weeks first, then start searching for a job, then find somewhere to live that wont require a 4 hour commute every day.

I must admit that I wasn't aware that my original post would garner so many responses, but so far it has been a good read and a bit of fun, so I'm glad I put it up.

Again thanks to those that wished me luck.

Cheers and beers

Midasthailand,

If you have not already done so, you could gain some practical experience at one of the colleges in Phuket that have students and also train TEFL teachers. One of them also offers supplementary training should you wish to specialise in teaching either young students or business people.

[Dr. Burrito]

Thanks, Dr. Burrito; I agree (well, that doesn't mean I was wrong, but... ).

For parents such as you, who value the teaching of English so highlyl that even a bilingual preschool with a poorly trained Dane being the 'teacher' isn't good enough, you'll have to scrape up a lot of extra baht to find a better primary school.

I am not suggesting high school grads with poor command of English should teach, anywhere. I think a BA in any subject, and a TEFL cert or two years' real experience, is sufficient for a native speaker to teach conversational and basic English (even intermediate) in 95% of the secondary schools in Thailand. The bilingual schools already had, I thought, stricter standards, but you never really know until you find out otherwise. If you absolutely must have fully trained professional educators with B.Ed. and Western certification, you'll have to pay very very high tuition at the true international schools where salaries start at 120,000 baht per month plus benefits.

When you actually find a particular individual who is pretending to be a teacher, but doesn't even have minimal qualifications and is doing a lousy job, he can be bashed, surely.

Peace, perhaps, I should phrase it differently. It's not about valuing English so much as properly trained teachers. Yes, I want an English teacher to be qualified as well, but it has nothing to do with conversational English as much as proper teaching methods.

I have friends who are teachers back in the states, and these people are put through a huge battery of educational and training programs before being put solely in charge of a classroom, even with small children who are only finger-painting. These professionals are probably still hard-pressed for the first year or more even as they find their way, and they are backed up with huge amounts of training in how to be a teacher, not just how to add 2+2, build bridges or dissect a frog.

While I've no doubt there are some well intentioned people at the school, both Thai and foreigner, I want what any parent wants, my child to get the best possible educational support I can provide so when they do go out and face the big, bad world someday, their toolkit has a better selection for getting them where they want to go.

I don't begrudge people making a living, but I do think there is vast room for improvement in how the people are getting trained here before they are thrust into the Thai mill grinder that is the school system. They are in charge of little minds who who are trusting them and should not be cannon fodder for some poor individual who has never had that responsibility. Whoever is in front of that class would ideally have some idea of of how to lead their flock into better ways of thinking and organizing their little brains, be it English or otherwise.

Dr. B

[garro]

I think that there are quite a few English teachers who entered the profession for the wrong reasons. I don't think that this stops them from becoming great teachers who really love the job. Many people fall into a career all over the world, nothing sinister about it.

I started teaching in BKK a few years back. I had just left a job in Saudi and didn't have a new one to go to. I felt like a bit of a fraud but actually really enjoyed the work. I interacted well with the kids. I decided to go back and get more qualifications. I still continued to teach for free. Now five years later I am more qualified and I have even started a PGCE.

I don't think that the motives for becoming a teacher should be an issue. Just because somebody fell in love with Thailand (or a Thai) and teaching was the only way to stay here, it doesn't mean they are a bad teacher.

[roietjimmy]

As a teacher of English in Thailand you give children the opportunity to improve their lot in life and what greater satisfaction than that is there in life?

Well said. I'm sure you will be able to ignore all the negative comments you will hear as a teacher in Thailand. I am not a teacher so I have no motivation to defend them but can comment only on the teachers I know. Living in a somewhat small area of Isaan, I can say I have yet to meet a teacher here I find to be "underqualified", a "drunken sexpat", or any of the other caricatures teacher bashing TV members might come up with. As with all of us in Thailand they vary in their reasons for being here, many are married with family, some are single but all are intelligent, honest, hardworking folks dedicated to their professions. There may be many teachers in Thailand that fall into one of the more negative categories but Thailand is a big and varied place so don't get the impression all teachers in Thailand are people deserving of the negative comments you hear.

As stated by a previous reply to your OP, we would sure like you to consider locating in Isaan to teach. The money will be less and the facilities far below the standards found in Bangkok or other large urban areas. The slow and, as some (the Isaan bashers on TV) will point out, boring, unexciting environment may not be to your liking. However, in Isaan you will have a greater impact in "giving children the opportunity to improve their lot in life".

If you have any interest, send me a PM.

Edited October 1, 2007 by roietjimmy