Better To Be Born In Thailand Or Singapore?

[watarya]

Hi

Does anyone have any comments on the pro's and con's of a baby being born in Singapore vs being born in Thailand?

My wife is Thai, I am a New Zealander, we live in Singapore. Our baby (son) is due in late October. I had thought that it would be a good idea for the baby to be born in Bangkok because:

1. My wife does not speak English, which may seriously detract from the birthing experience in Singapore if she can't understand the mid-wife (or the Dr if it comes to that)

2. I am not sure how Thai citizenship etc works... is having a Thai mother enough to guarentee full rights or not? It seemed that being born in Thailand would help out the little guy in the future, both bureaucratically and spiritually (I'd rather he was imbued with the Thai spirit than the Singaporean one).

Now my wife has met a Thai friend in Singapore who is 8 months pregnant, and the baby will be born here in Singapore. Her friend says having the baby in Singapore is a lot easier (no travel, no time apart, no renting apartments in Bangkok etc), costs about the same, and the actual process should be not too much of a problem with me translating.

Having been through two births with my previous partner I know that it is not always straight-forward, and although my spoken Thai is quite good I'm not sure how it would be in a stressful, medical environment.

The Bangkok option would involve her leaving 4 weeks before, and probably coming back 3 weeks after. I would travel up every weekend, and stay there for a week around the delivery date.

My wife says it is up to me

Any input that any one has would be most appreciated

Thanks

[thedude]

you may have to be clearer on what your actual concern is.

if you are worried about the standard of healthcare and the birthing process, then i'd suggest doing it in singapore to save the hassle of travelling and besides the medical standards there are pretty much world class compared to thailand, generally speaking, and pre and post-natal care is good too.

your wont be the first child in history to be born outside of her homeland, the fact that one parent is Thai pretty much guarantees the child the option to be Thai, regardless of where he/she is born. you will have to inform the thai embassy. likewise you may choose to inform the New Zealand embassy. i am not sure what the respective homeland policies are with regard to dual citizenship, so you may have to find out more, but i doubt if it will affect a child at this early age.

i doubt that there will be any issue with singapore nationality since neither yourself nor your wife are singaporean. if you are somehow given the choice, then please consider carefully as a singapore male would have to enlist with the army for about 2 years of national service once he reaches 18.

[Sumitr Man]

a singapore male would have to enlist with the army for about 2 years of national service once he reaches 18.

And a Thai would not? ???

[wamberal]

I was under the impression that a Thai father needs to be named on a birth certificate for a child to have Thai citizenship...is this not so? Being born in Singapore and not having a Thai father might militate against citizenship (this is not an expert opinion, I hasten to add). It would be worth clarifying this.

If you can afford a Singapore hospital, what is wrong with Bamrungrad? (SP?)

[Aussie]

I was under the impression that a Thai father needs to be named on a birth certificate for a child to have Thai citizenship...is this not so? Being born in Singapore and not having a Thai father might militate against citizenship (this is not an expert opinion, I hasten to add). It would be worth clarifying this.

If you can afford a Singapore hospital, what is wrong with Bamrungrad? (SP?)

Nonsense, my children are the living proof.

How do you communicate with your wife as she can't speak English? Are you fluent in Thai as a new zealander and just happen to work in Singapore?

[thedude]

Sumitr Man, yes, a Thai would not need to enlist with the army.

Agree that Bamrumgrad is good value for money (it also has a Singapore team operating the hospital). But if money is not the issue then why leave Singapore, the experience is tough enough without having to do all the travelling. Just my opinion.

[Sumitr Man]

^ So there's no National Service in Thailand?

[chonabot]

There certainly is National service , some people should check the facts before they give advice.

[surin]

I was under the impression that a Thai father needs to be named on a birth certificate for a child to have Thai citizenship...is this not so?  Being born in Singapore and not having a Thai father might militate against citizenship (this is not an expert opinion, I hasten to add).  It would be worth clarifying this.

If you can afford a Singapore hospital, what is wrong with Bamrungrad? (SP?)

Nonsense, my children are the living proof.

How do you communicate with your wife as she can't speak English? Are you fluent in Thai as a new zealander and just happen to work in Singapore?

Mine too..... both sons were born in Australia, but Thai/Aust. citizens with dual passports!

[watarya]

We met via a friend of hers, who could speak English. I have been learning Thai since then, which was January last year, and she has been living here with me in Singpore since January this year.

It is surpsrising how few words you need to be able to communicate effectively. What is also surprising is that these few words are also enough to follow a lot of Thai conversations (OK its probably more like a few hundred words, but it doesn't feel like many).

If I don't understand a word then she explains it to me (or points to it) and then (after a few repititions) I have a new word. She speaks Thai very clearly, and mostly uses words that she knows I will understand. In an attempt to grow my vocabulary I am learning to read Thai. It is very (very) difficult, but it can also be very satisfying, for example when you can read an entire sentence without resorting to the dictionary.

However, I still can't follow Thai television. And when we visit the obstetrician I have trouble explaining everything in real time. Even when she is only having a scan and they ask her to move over onto her side I'm like "kai-ep, kai-ep, leo sai"... which is pretty crappy translation really. If the delivery is difficult I don't want to be struggling to find the right word at a critical moment. She is already worried because she is quite small, and the baby is looking like it is going to be quite big... I want her to have a proper discussion (one to one) with the doctor about any issues, before, during, or after.

I know I'm answering my own question here, but that's OK, because when I can't do that then I have to change my mind. You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

In terms of military service... if we chose to make bubs a Singaporean citizen (which we wouldn't) then, yes, at 18 he would be off to camp (but I think I will be insane if I am still living in Singapore in 18 years). If he is born in Thailand, but chooses to exercise his right to NZ citizenship then I don't know if he will get called up or not. My impression of the Thai military training system was that if you were doing something more important (like university) or had money, then you wouldn't have to go. Having said that, in 18 years time Thailand may have eliminated graft.

Also, as I understand it, it is balloted... red chip you go, black chip you don't... there is quite a funny (and tragic) Thai movie (aren't they all) about this, can't remember what it's callled.

[samran]

In terms of military service... if we chose to make bubs a Singaporean citizen (which we wouldn't) then, yes, at 18 he would be off to camp (but I think I will be insane if I am still living in Singapore in 18 years). If he is born in Thailand, but chooses to exercise his right to NZ citizenship then I don't know if he will get called up or not. My impression of the Thai military training system was that if you were doing something more important (like university) or had money, then you wouldn't have to go. Having said that, in 18 years time Thailand may have eliminated graft.

Also, as I understand it, it is balloted... red chip you go, black chip you don't... there is quite a funny (and tragic) Thai movie (aren't they all) about this, can't remember what it's callled.

Bubs won't have access to Singaporean Citizenship as neither parent is a Sing Citizen or PR.

Bubs is eligible for both Thai and NZ passports. No dual nationality contraints there.

As for Military Service in Thailand, it is complusory for all Thai males to participate in the Ballot and to be called up in times of war. Do a search on this topic here, there is plenty of info about. Many ways of getting out of 2 years military service including:

- 3 years worth of Friday afterschool cadets if at high school in Thailand.

- graduate from uni and then volunteer, you only have to do 6 months then.

- Stay out of Thailand until you are 30.

- Pick the right colour ball on conscription day.

[thedude]

thanks Samran for clarifying the point on Thai national service.

to chonabot, without having to labour the point on technicalities, my statements were made on the fact that not all thai males actually do attend national service, whereas ALL singaporean males do. and whereas one should be easy enough to avoid because of the many loopholes in the thai system, it is practically impossible to avoid the singapore national service, unless you are dead, handicapped or certifiably insane. i for one have never met a thai who had to attend national service, so i imagine it as a non-issue, whereas the issue of national service is a common consideration for anyone thinking of taking up singapore citizenship.

[chonabot]

Cool got it , cheers! Pass the spliff sir!

[Aussie]

It is surpsrising how few words you need to be able to communicate effectively. What is also surprising is that these few words are also enough to follow a lot of Thai conversations (OK its probably more like a few hundred words, but it doesn't feel like many).

I just wondered whether there would be more people here who would marry someone when only a few hundred words can be used for conversation.

Maybe it's something for a new topic, a poll:

How many English could your wife speak when you decided to marry her?

a. 25

b. 50

c. 100

d. more than 200

e. what is a 'word'?

I just wonder what you talk about at home, it seems like ###### to me. Living in Singapore and being dependent on Thai tv as there's nothng else you can understand...

But that was not your question, was it....

Good luck anyway...

[watarya]

i guess it depends how intelligently you use the words you do have

...singapore doesn't have thai television, but it does have a some good thai people

.....i wasn't asking a question, just seeking some input to help with my decision making, but thanks for the good wishes anyway, mate

[chonabot]

Some people have the worry of the world on their shoulders , me ? I have enough of me own....

[alleypanda]

As a woman, if I can't speak english I would prefer to give a birth of my child in Thailand ,close to my mother it would feel much better that way.

[meemiathai]

i guess it depends how intelligently you use the words you do have

...singapore doesn't have thai television, but it does have a some good thai people

.....i wasn't asking a question, just seeking some input to help with my decision making, but thanks for the good wishes anyway, mate

I fully understand what you are talking about. "intelligently using keywords"

When we got married after knowing each other for only 2 months, she hardly spoke more than a few words of english. So we did spend quite some time in trying to communicate and me teaching her chinese. Strangely, as difficult as it seemed, we did manage to understand each other quite well. In many occassions I really thought it was quite amazing that we understood each other much better than my previous relations with chinese girls where we spoke the same language.

Nowadays after almost 5 years we speak chinese and thai to each other and her chinese(cantonese) is close to perfect.

I just wondered whether there would be more people here who would marry someone when only a few hundred words can be used for conversation.

Don't people fail to understand each other even when speaking the same language???Please don't underestimate others' ability just because you consider yourself in capable of.

Anyway, off topic.

Thinking of having babies in maybe 2 years' time, I am having the same concerns.

HK or Thailand?

[Up2U]

How is your wife thinking of travelling to Thailand (if that is the final decision)?

Many airlines do not allow eight-month pregnant ladies to fly. The change in cabin pressure / stress of flying / other causes may bring on premature birth.

The train is a long trip.

Personally, having business interests in both countries, I would suggest staying where you are. If she has sufficient faith in you, as I assume she must, then your presence at the birth will be as helpful as would her mother's. The maternity care is good in both places, at the high-end. And if there are complications - you will be able to communicate better in Singers. You need to know what is happening as much as your wife.

My first wife was Spanish and our daughter was born in England, with me by her side. She had thought about going 'home' but decided it was better to stay in UK and not risk the travel - about the same distance as you are from BKK.

[bkk_mike]

Many airlines do not allow eight-month pregnant ladies to fly. The change in cabin pressure / stress of flying / other causes may bring on premature birth.

He said in the post at the start of the thread that the baby was due at the end of October. The mother "might" be allowed to fly at the moment, but it would definitely be borderline.

As for hospitals, Bangkok has quite a few decent hospitals. One of our children was born in London on the NHS - medically, not a problem, but service is shit. - they literally told us that if we'd gotten to the hospital a few minutes later, the maternity section would have been closed, and we'd have had to go to another hospital...

Another was born in a private hospital in Bangkok.

I know which one my wife preferred, and I know which one I preferred, and neither is in London... (even though London was nominally free).

[watarya]

Thank you all for your comments.

In the end it was Singapore. The deciding factor was my wife's friend, who was slightly more pregnant. Her husband travels, and was in Bangkok when his wife had pregancy problems in Singapore. We went with her to the hospital, and he was on the other end of the phone. We decided that there was no way we wanted to be in that situation (her friend's problems turned out to be nothing too serious). Luckily my job doesn't require me to travel, so we just stayed in Singapore.

The birth was not straightforward. Due to my wife's small stature, the baby got to a certain point and then got no further. For 24 hours we (she) tried, but we (she) got no more than 2cm dilation. I wasn't overly impressed with the Singapore nurses, especially in the middle of the night when my wife was crying in pain and they didn't want to wake the doctor, however it was a Public hospital and it was the middle of the night. Also, Singapore being the overly cautious place that it is, I think that waiting 24 hours before doing an "emergency" c-section was possibly a bit much. C-section when it came went very smoothly. In Singapore the father is not allowed in the operating theatre, but they had to call me in pre-op to translate, so they could check that the epidural had been increased enough to numb the surgery area. Then I had to leave, but baby was out just 20 minutes later. Baby was 3.55kg (mothers pre-pregnancy weight was 45kg and height 1.45m, so you can kind of see the problem). Our Doctor was also the surgeon, which also helped I think. Baby was born on Tuesday and we went home on Thursday. All up it cost $5300, which is not too bad for a C-section.

Bubs is now nearly three months old. He has a Singapore birth cert that states in large letters that he is NOT entitled to Singapore citizenship (lucky him), but after a lot of paper work he now has NZ citizenship, a Thai birth certificate and passports for both. He has been to NZ once and Thailand three times.

On the long ago subject of how many words you can speak; when we met it wasn't many words, but now I would consider my Thai sufficient for any normal conversation. Possibly because I have to think for a fraction of a second before I speak, I communicate a lot better with this wife than with the last one (NZer).

In Thailand I can understand most people, but I have problems following movies or TV, and my reading level is probably 3 year old. My elder son (NZer) who is 11 is also quite fluent (pronunciation is better than mine). This has been helped by the fact that my wife doesn't speak English, we have had frequent trips to Thailand, and Thai is such an easy language to learn (I spent 6 months trying to learn Mandarin and came away with nothing).

[chonabot]

Congratulations! Now the real work begins!

[Jai Dee]

Congratulations watarya.

When do we get to wet the baby's head?

[lampard10]

It is surpsrising how few words you need to be able to communicate effectively. What is also surprising is that these few words are also enough to follow a lot of Thai conversations (OK its probably more like a few hundred words, but it doesn't feel like many).

I just wondered whether there would be more people here who would marry someone when only a few hundred words can be used for conversation.

Maybe it's something for a new topic, a poll:

How many English could your wife speak when you decided to marry her?

a. 25

b. 50

c. 100

d. more than 200

e. what is a 'word'?

I

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You forgot 'Too many'

[Krub]

As for Military Service in Thailand, it is complusory for all Thai males to participate in the Ballot and to be called up in times of war. Do a search on this topic here, there is plenty of info about. Many ways of getting out of 2 years military service including:

- 3 years worth of Friday afterschool cadets if at high school in Thailand.

- graduate from uni and then volunteer, you only have to do 6 months then.

- Stay out of Thailand until you are 30.

- Pick the right colour ball on conscription day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another way to avoid military service is to pay the guy who has picked the right colour ball and exchange it for yours.....