All Farangs To Be Monitored Online

[Darlek]

Thursday, August 5, 2004

Immigration goes online to boost security

Immigration Bureau Commissioner Pol Lt Gen Chanwut Watcharapook: “We need the public’s cooperation.”

PHUKET CITY: The Immigration Police have launched a project in Phuket that will eventually allow hotels and homeowners all over Thailand to report required data about their guests via the Internet.

The project is intended to help combat terrorism and monitor the movements of suspicious foreigners visiting Thailand.

Following refinement of the pilot project in Phuket, the system will then be launched in Chiang Mai. It is expected to be implemented nationwide some time next year.

The underlying database will also be linked to intelligence networks overseas.

Once the system is up and running, hotel staff will log on to the Immigration Police website and enter 24 items of information about each guest who checks in.

During the initial trial period, however, hotels and guesthouses will have to submit the data in a spreadsheet by email to: [email protected]

Immigration went public with the project at a training seminar yesterday at the Pearl Hotel, attended by about 170 hotel staff. The training was organized in cooperation with the Phuket Tourist Association (PTA).

At the session, Pol Lt Gen Chanwut Watcharapook, Commissioner of the Immigration Bureau, said “The Immigration Bureau’s mission is to provide both service and security, and these tasks should be accomplished side-by-side.

“We need the public’s cooperation on this because we already have about 700 names on our terrorist blacklist.”

Pol Lt Col Vitawat Booranasamarn, Superintendent of the Phuket Immigration Police (PIO), said the new database would facilitate entry of the required data.

Section 38 of the Immigration Act 1979 requires homeowners and hotels providing accommodation to foreigners to notify Immigration within 24 hours of their guests’ arrival.

Hotels should be able to start submitting the required data immediately after their staff complete the one-time training session, he said.

Those failing to comply are subject to an 8,000 baht fine. In the past the law was seldom enforced but once the new system is functioning properly, Immigration Police plan to crack down on violators.

Pol Capt Krissarat Nuesen, Deputy Inspector of the PIO, told the Gazette that additional training sessions may be held in the future if necessary, but added that the PIO might have to seek outside funding in order to pay for them.

Pattanapong Akevanich, Chairman of the Phuket Tourist Association (PTA), said that the training session was useful. In the past, he noted, mistakes often resulted from the need to hand-write the information. Entering the required data via the Internet would allow hotels to provide more complete and accurate information.

K. Pattanapong accepted the need for better enforcement of the reporting requirement. “There are some ill-intentioned visitors coming here, so we must be careful. This is not just in regard to terrorism, but also to help prevent economic crimes, trafficking in human beings, passport forgery and other crimes.”

[Darlek]

another daft idea , every hotel and guesthouse in LOS will have to submit otherwise its

not workable, and only major hotels have a PC , and suspicious farangs wont be staying there but in small dives ..like 100 baht a night ...

[maikaojai]

K. Pattanapong accepted the need for better enforcement of the reporting requirement. “There are some ill-intentioned visitors coming here, so we must be careful. This is not just in regard to terrorism, but also to help prevent economic crimes, trafficking in human beings, passport forgery and other crimes.”

Doesn't immigration have a system to keep these kind of people out of the kingdom in the first place?

[Pink Mist]

in a word

NO

[john b good]

Yes a daft idea like so many they dream up.

Sounds good in theory but in practice it will produce nothing useful.

As has been said none (majority) of these doss houses don't have a PC so whatever information they do get from the larger establishments will be skewed in the final figures.

They can't even arrive at accurate figures for the number of road deaths (or anything much else for that matter)

[Up2U]

But it will mean longer check-in / check-out times. Other countries where there is a strict registration code can take ages to check someone in - it is not just the information on your passport that many require, but home address, arrival method and so on - as on the Immigration card. And that is nowhere near thirty items of info. - so what else will they want?

Big Brother is coming - tourists are leaving.

[PvtDick]

Not according to yesterday's papers. Tourist figures are up, up, up.

[cobra]

Of course hotel operators will pass on the cost of the extra security administration just as the airlines did for extra screening, etc, ... , I wouldn't mind if it was effective, we'll just have to see,

[ovenman]

Pardon my skepticism in advance but this scheme strikes me as being yet another example of something that is presented in the local press as being a done deal, going to happen in a matter of months if not days, and is then never heard about again. You can find such a different example of this just about every day in the Thai newspaper(s).

[sbk]

hotel staff will log on to the Immigration Police website and enter 24 items of information about each guest who checks in.

Looks like hotels will have to hire extra staff just to register their guests with the police! 24 items of information??? Amazing.

[RooBoy]

Of course this is Thai logic, although we all know it would be better to collect this information on ARRIVAL to the country, where its already computerised, so that the blacklist can be checked, what is hotel information going to uncover?

If somoene came in using false papers, a hotel check on his papers wont reveal anything more than what immigration already knows. If immigration is wanting to keep tabs on a particular person, why would they need anything more than his name and passport number sent in, this is enough to track their movements without screwing the entire system and costing us all..

[PvtDick]

All of the information to be tracked is supposed to already be collected by all hotels when you fill in their registration cards. The problem is that until now the information has been forwarded to the police in hard copy form, and never computerized. It is therefore of little use.

This type of information can be extremely valuable when tracking people's movements and contacts. Even if they are using a false passport, their various aliases often become known after-the-fact. The authorities can then use these computer records to see where they have been, who they may have been traveling with, and who they may have contacted (through hotel phone records). If they paid their bill with a credit card, this is another great intelligence tool.

Don't worry, I doubt it will cost any traveller an extra satang nor an extra second of time, and it will definitely help make Thailand and the world a safer place.

[Limbo]

The title of this topic might be misleading to many readers of it.

Not the 'farang' are going to be monitored, but hotelguests. Among which 'Farang' of course.

'Farang' referring to French bodyguards employed by King Rama V (comparable to Ludwig's 'Lange Kerle') is used for Caucasians.

Where 'Caucasians' refers to I never learned, but Europeans and northern Americans are ment by it.

The measure is of a kind that might be instigated by an American organization involved in 'the War against Terrorism'.

At least at first sight it looks like one of these 'writing table products' that not always are easy to effectuate in concrete situations.

What I personally fear most is that Osama Bin Laden is going to proof that he found a better way to turn computers and internet into weapons.

An attack on the stockmarkets of New York, London and Paris (including their shadow offices) would be a different cup of tea.

Let us all hope that it is not going to happen.

[Rhys]

They have the checks already at the guess houses... The MPs...are again The Righteous Mighty... P...kers.

A few more.. ops..then out of the pool mates.

[Darlek]

Pardon my skepticism in advance but this scheme strikes me as being yet another example of something that is presented in the local press as being a done deal, going to happen in a matter of months if not days, and is then never heard about again. You can find such a different example of this just about every day in the Thai newspaper(s).

yes civil servants& taxin seem to believe that if you make a statement to the press it will come true as if by magic .

i t does not matter how absurd or ridiculous it is ..

like Phuket will become the software design centre of asia ,, its all bolex

[Rhys]

This is part of T--S Educated society package right...

[ProThaiExpat]

I chose to be an optimist, and with Thailands efforts to become IT savy, I can easily see, within a few years, software programs in all hotels collecting the data as part of their registration process and with a single key-stroke, transmitting the data to the immigration department in an acceptable format.

A simple regulation would require hostels, without computers to, to gather the information in the appropirate format on hard copy and then having their local internet cafe transmit the information for them. Immigration police follup at non-complying hotels is not difficult. Don't French police collect such data routinely/ Maybe just in old movies.

The U.S. is funding the computers at the airport so they can collect the data in the U.S. worldwide database of peoples movements. I am sure the ultimate objective is tracking people once they are admitted to the kingdom. Computers programmed accordingly, can spot suspicious movements by pattern, etc. Big brother is watching, but so what, if you have nothing to hide.

[Rhys]

Agreed.... Yet... resistance to the old way to things is hard to change.. Somethings have been this way.. for a good reason.. In light of the current state of world events, nonetheless, most do not like the BB shadow. A for Effort... F for Corruption.

[Mai Krap]

Will they be getting free laptops with this system? Will somebody be checking to see if Immagration is using pirated software? What about the hotels and their pirated software? Maybe MICROSOFT can help them.

[PvtDick]

Most government agencies in Thailand are now using Linux, together with open-source software.

[lopburi3]

If you check your arrival card (TM.6) you will find over 25 pieces of information are required so hotel report will not be more than right page of that.

Hotels now require TM card information as well as passport etc so it will not be much more work for them - they prepare a spreadsheet every day for delivery to police now.

The only change (for hotels) will be that it is done online.

The big change will be enforcement of the 24 hour reporting to include private homes as that has not been a priority in the past and is seldom done AFAIK. I suspect local police will be charged with entering that information - and probably for guest house type places.

[KevinN]

All of the information to be tracked is supposed to already be collected by all hotels when you fill in their registration cards.

this is another great intelligence tool.

Don't worry, I doubt it will cost any traveller an extra satang nor an extra second of time, and it will definitely help make Thailand and the world a safer place.

How very true this is,,why just yesterday we had 3 car bombs in our area.

Well not car bombs exactly,but a cow did fall when they were trying to get her out of a pickup,, and a kid ran into a car with his motorbike,,and I think someone was selling the bullocks about the other one.

way to much terrorism here alright.

[george]

Who is going to have access to the login password at the hotels?

Will it be a secure connection (SSL)?

[ka12345]

If you check your arrival card (TM.6) you will find over 25 pieces of information are required so hotel report will not be more than right page of that.

Just the serial no of the TM6 and/or passport no should be sufficient.

[ovenman]

If you check your arrival card (TM.6) you will find over 25 pieces of information are required so hotel report will not be more than right page of that.

Assuming that somebody at immigrations did their data entry job properly when a traveler entered Thailand, why would a hotel need to enter any more data then a foreigner's TM number? If a hotel reports that TM AB12345 is now staying at the No-Tell Motel in Nakhon Nowhere, shouldn't immigrations be able to cross-reference this record locator with all of the information they have already recorded regarded a particular visitor? Why re-enter all of the same information repeatedly?

[ovenman]

Just the serial no of the TM6 and/or passport no should be sufficient.

You summed it up much more succinctly than me!

[Ajarn]

Where 'Caucasians' refers to I never learned, but Europeans and northern Americans are ment by it.

From the Oxford Dictionary...

Caucasian /kO;"keIzI@n, -Z(@)n/

· adj.

1 relating to or denoting a broad division of humankind covering peoples from Europe, western Asia, and parts of India and North Africa. Ø white-skinned; of European origin.

2 of or relating to the region of the Caucasus in SE Europe.

· n. a Caucasian person.

farang /fa"raN/

· n. (among Thais) a European or other foreigner.

– ORIGIN Thai, from frank2.

frank2

· v. stamp an official mark on (a letter or parcel) to indicate that postage has been paid or does not need to be paid. Ø historical sign (a letter or parcel) to ensure delivery free of charge.

· n. a franking mark or signature on a letter or parcel.

– DERIVATIVES franker n. franking n.

– ORIGIN C18: from frank1, an early sense being ‘free of obligation’.

frank1

· adj.

1 candid and honest. Ø sincere or undisguised.

2 Medicine unmistakable.

– DERIVATIVES frankness n.

– ORIGIN ME (in the sense ‘free’, also ‘generous’): from OFr. franc, from med. L. francus ‘free’, from Francus (see Frank: only Franks had full freedom in Frankish Gaul).

Frank

· n. a member of a Germanic people that conquered Gaul in the 6th century.

– DERIVATIVES Frankish adj. & n.

– ORIGIN OE Franca, of Gmc origin; perh. from the name of a weapon and rel. to OE franca ‘javelin’; reinforced in ME by med. L. Francus and OFr. Franc, of the same origin and rel. to French.

[KevinN]

If you check your arrival card (TM.6) you will find over 25 pieces of information are required so hotel report will not be more than right page of that.

Just the serial no of the TM6 and/or passport no should be sufficient.

Will we be able to make our 90 day checkin for residence verification on the net too??

And you know that this deal will never fly anyway,The Thai love the paperwork floating around,and do not seem to use a computer like most places do.

Like when I go to pay my phone bill,,First I walk up to the desk and she tells me that I have to have a number, I take a number,then walk to the desk where I give her my number,she looks at my bill and logs it on the computer,then I take it to the next gal,who also looks at and logs the info on the puter,then I take it to the last gal and she looks at it,logs info on the puter and then after bullshitting with the gal that just paid her bill, will make my change and give me a reciept..

So this new deal will save no time,but will have to be done,plus it will all have to be done on paper anyway.

[Darlek]

there must be 1000s of dosshouses/ guesthouses all over the country , khaosan road for example . the idea that the owners are going to be farting around at the local internet cafe sending data everyday because they dont have a PC is off the wall .

In remote areas there are no internet cafes and they would laugh at the idea they had to submit such data everyday.

They might start for a few days then it will fade away .

In any case when Hambali and his cronies were picked up in sukothai they were staying in apartments after slipping across the border from Malaysia .

There were no immigration cards for him & his pals.

[Johpa]

there must be 1000s of dosshouses/ guesthouses all over the country , khaosan road for example . the idea that the owners are going to be farting around at the local internet cafe sending data everyday because they dont have a PC is off the wall .

In remote areas there are no internet cafes and they would laugh at the idea they had to submit such data everyday.

I recently spoke to some folks who had been in the guesthouse business (disclaimer: I also once ran a guesthouse in Chiangmai Province). Their opinion was that Toxin wanted to discourage the operating of small guesthouses catering to the low budget tourists while encouraging the operation of hotels that would cater to organized group tours. One method of accomplishing this is gradually making regulations that are a far greater burden on the smaller establishments then on the larger establishments.

I think Toxin sees, and he has some justification here, that the future growth in tourism will be regional (e.g. China) and he hopes to exploit the growing demand for the Chinese to visit their southern most province where he shall reign as the local Lord of the Heavens.