Tv Cards In Computers

[intumult]

I am wondering if a television card in a computer gives off the same signal as a standard television with regards to detection by the licencing authorities.

My reason for asking is quite simple. As I am in the UK for only 6 weeks or so a year I begrudge paying over £130 for a tv licence when I hardly watch any tv at all, even in those 6 weeks. I could happily watch tv on the computer and also record progs to the hard drive if they are not so easily detectable

[Pink Mist]

never heard of televisions that give off signals, I have a tv card in my pc that doesnt do that either, you can get tuner cards for laptops too, I wouldnt worry about it.

[intumult]

In the UK they use 'detector vans' to check if you are using a tv without a licence

And, as I said earlier, it would be good to know if they can detect the same with a card in the computer

edit

Oh yeah and the fine is £1000 if caught!!! LOL

Edited October 8, 2007 by intumult

[Crossy]

TVs emit all sorts of crap. The detector vans listen for the tell-tale signals, (IF leakage, scan frequency emissions etc.). TV cards do emit at least some of this stuff although I suspect much of it is masked by the amount of <deleted> that your PC generates. There is certainly discussion as to whether the latest generation vans can detect LCD and plasma sets, I would suspect that they can.

BUT.

The vast majority of those caught aren't caught by vans, they're caught by the database of unlicenced addresses.

I'd not worry if you're only there for a short time. Remember the detector chaps have NO right of entry, they have to take your word that you have no TV unless they go and get a warrant. Don't be too obvious and you'll be fine.

EDIT Get a USB tuner and only plug it in when you're using it, pretty well immune

Interesting discussion here

http://www.avforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-85717.html

not a live link (it's to another forum), cut and paste into your browser.

Edited October 8, 2007 by Crossy

[RKASA]

In the UK they use 'detector vans' to check if you are using a tv without a licence

You have to have a licence to use a TV set.  This is like a TV tax of something, that is nuts.  Then they pay people to look for users??  double nuts.  

[Crossy]

You have to have a licence to use a TV set.  This is like a TV tax of something, that is nuts.  Then they pay people to look for users??  double nuts.  

Theoretically the licence fee funds the BBC so there are no commercials on the BBC channels. Yes, it is a sort of tax, they spend millions searching out those evading the tax

[intumult]

TVs emit all sorts of crap. The detector vans listen for the tell-tale signals, (IF leakage, scan frequency emissions etc.). TV cards do emit at least some of this stuff although I suspect much of it is masked by the amount of <deleted> that your PC generates. There is certainly discussion as to whether the latest generation vans can detect LCD and plasma sets, I would suspect that they can.

BUT.

The vast majority of those caught aren't caught by vans, they're caught by the database of unlicenced addresses.

I'd not worry if you're only there for a short time. Remember the detector chaps have NO right of entry, they have to take your word that you have no TV unless they go and get a warrant. Don't be too obvious and you'll be fine.

EDIT Get a USB tuner and only plug it in when you're using it, pretty well immune

Interesting discussion here

http://www.avforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-85717.html

not a live link (it's to another forum), cut and paste into your browser.

Thanks for that.

Interesting site too. I especially like the bit about not having rights to enter the property.

Now, maybe I can watch the Rugby world cup in peace

[sumrit]

never heard of televisions that give off signals, I have a tv card in my pc that doesnt do that either, you can get tuner cards for laptops too, I wouldnt worry about it.

The TV tuner converts the incoming TVsignals to a 'local IF frequency signal' of 39.5 MHz. for the TV's to decode. But all tuners, whether in TV sets,video's, DVD recorders and PC tuner cards etc. also transmit this 'IF signal for short distances and it is this signal that the detector vans are looking for. The strength of the signal will tell them how roughly far from the detector van the set is and the direction of the signal will show the house it's coming from, and thats how they can have a pretty good guess at which room the TV is in. But these days they have a database of every household in the UK and which ones have a licence and which ones don't so they can just target the ones that don't have a licence. And remember you don't have to have the TV on to break the law, just having a set in the house is illegal. I remember somebody didn't renew his licence and got away with it many years ago by proving he was out of the country for the relevent period (with his passport) and he had used no electricity in his house from the meter readings from the electricity company. Thats when they changed the law from 'watching a TV' to 'possessing a TV'.

[torrenova]

It is an elective tax. If you do not wish to pay, then you don't have to. I have never bought a license.

I do not ask them to beam the BBC into my living room and would be happy if they did not. Until they can show me a contract I signed they can whistle and they retain the option to turn off the BBC.

The poor and badly educated pay the fines and the middle class pay the license. What do you think would actually happen if they took someone to court who had money for lawyers and defended themselves ? The license would have to be scrapped overnight.

[solo siam]

It is an elective tax. If you do not wish to pay, then you don't have to. I have never bought a license.

I do not ask them to beam the BBC into my living room and would be happy if they did not. Until they can show me a contract I signed they can whistle and they retain the option to turn off the BBC.

The poor and badly educated pay the fines and the middle class pay the license. What do you think would actually happen if they took someone to court who had money for lawyers and defended themselves ? The license would have to be scrapped overnight.

It is not an elective tax, if you have ANY sort of television in your house (even if its broken) then you are liable. The Police also do not ask if you need policing, but they still do it anyway.

[basjke]

It is an elective tax. If you do not wish to pay, then you don't have to. I have never bought a license.

I do not ask them to beam the BBC into my living room and would be happy if they did not. Until they can show me a contract I signed they can whistle and they retain the option to turn off the BBC.

The poor and badly educated pay the fines and the middle class pay the license. What do you think would actually happen if they took someone to court who had money for lawyers and defended themselves ? The license would have to be scrapped overnight.

It is not an elective tax, if you have ANY sort of television in your house (even if its broken) then you are liable. The Police also do not ask if you need policing, but they still do it anyway.

Don't you have to pay for cable tv in England?And why should you pay for cable if you don't have a tv.

Edited October 8, 2007 by basjke

[nidge]

Just found this...

Collection is enforced by criminal law. People accused of licence evasion are tried in a magistrates court. Violators can be fined up to £1000. Prior to 1991, the collection and administration of the UK licence fee was the responsibility of the Home Office. Since 1991, the revenue has been collected on behalf of the Government by the BBC and paid into Government's Consolidated Fund. From 1991 the fee was collected more directly by the BBC and was called the TV Licensing Authority. Since then collection has been contracted out and is now collected and enforced by TV Licensing Ltd, which is operated by Capita. As a consequence of the change the force of law in enforcing the licence has weakened somewhat[citation needed]. By 1994, 57% of all female criminal convictions in Britain related to television licence evasion

I would say after reading this that it is most certainly not elective. Unless you are electing to become a criminal!

[endure]

It is an elective tax. If you do not wish to pay, then you don't have to. I have never bought a license.

I do not ask them to beam the BBC into my living room and would be happy if they did not. Until they can show me a contract I signed they can whistle and they retain the option to turn off the BBC.

The poor and badly educated pay the fines and the middle class pay the license. What do you think would actually happen if they took someone to court who had money for lawyers and defended themselves ? The license would have to be scrapped overnight.

It is not an elective tax, if you have ANY sort of television in your house (even if its broken) then you are liable. The Police also do not ask if you need policing, but they still do it anyway.

You only have to pay the licence fee if you have equipment capable of receiving a TV signal. If it's broken or if it's packed away in the attic you don't need a licence.

[MarkBKK]

You only have to pay the licence fee if you have equipment capable of receiving a TV signal. If it's broken or if it's packed away in the attic you don't need a licence.

Unless the law has changed recently, er, no, not quite. If it's broken then it's not capable of receiving a signal, so you don't need a licence. If it's not broken, even if it's packed away in the attic, then you do.

[sumrit]

It is an elective tax. If you do not wish to pay, then you don't have to. I have never bought a license.

I do not ask them to beam the BBC into my living room and would be happy if they did not. Until they can show me a contract I signed they can whistle and they retain the option to turn off the BBC.

The poor and badly educated pay the fines and the middle class pay the license. What do you think would actually happen if they took someone to court who had money for lawyers and defended themselves ? The license would have to be scrapped overnight.

It is not an elective tax, if you have ANY sort of television in your house (even if its broken) then you are liable. The Police also do not ask if you need policing, but they still do it anyway.

You only have to pay the licence fee if you have equipment capable of receiving a TV signal. If it's broken or if it's packed away in the attic you don't need a licence.

You do. An old customer of mine used to keep the back off his TV and when it wasn't being used he would pull one of the panels out so he could say it was faulty and couldn't be used. When the licencing people knocked on his door he showed them the 'faulty' TV. They accepted that it didn't work but still prosecuted him for possessing a TV. He lost and was fined.

[dsys]

You do. An old customer of mine used to keep the back off his TV and when it wasn't being used he would pull one of the panels out so he could say it was faulty and couldn't be used. When the licencing people knocked on his door he showed them the 'faulty' TV. They accepted that it didn't work but still prosecuted him for possessing a TV. He lost and was fined.

I think the law must have changed recently. As a student I used to apply for an exemption letter based on having a TV with the tuner removed.

The OP was asking about computers that could display TV signals. I have personnaly been warned by the TV guys for having a laptop with a tuner installed but no other TV's in the house (and no license ). When does a computer become a TV? When you install a tuner. When does a TV become a computer monitor/DVD screen ? When you remove the tuner. I think htese lines will become even more blurred when HD TV comes out - some of the TV's have no tuners installed.

[LivinLOS]

It is an elective tax. If you do not wish to pay, then you don't have to. I have never bought a license.

I do not ask them to beam the BBC into my living room and would be happy if they did not. Until they can show me a contract I signed they can whistle and they retain the option to turn off the BBC.

The poor and badly educated pay the fines and the middle class pay the license. What do you think would actually happen if they took someone to court who had money for lawyers and defended themselves ? The license would have to be scrapped overnight.

As pointed out.. this is categorically untrue..

The once prosecuted a blind guy who had a TV in his home.. He was even done for not having a color license when lets face it, black and white wouldnt have made much difference to him.

These days tho how do they define TV ?? My computers LCD panel has an TV in.. Projectors can display TV sources.. This is now a very different era..

[LivinLOS]

It is an elective tax. If you do not wish to pay, then you don't have to. I have never bought a license.

I do not ask them to beam the BBC into my living room and would be happy if they did not. Until they can show me a contract I signed they can whistle and they retain the option to turn off the BBC.

The poor and badly educated pay the fines and the middle class pay the license. What do you think would actually happen if they took someone to court who had money for lawyers and defended themselves ? The license would have to be scrapped overnight.

It is not an elective tax, if you have ANY sort of television in your house (even if its broken) then you are liable. The Police also do not ask if you need policing, but they still do it anyway.

Don't you have to pay for cable tv in England?And why should you pay for cable if you don't have a tv.

No in the UK there is 'free' TV broadcast over air.. This is then supported by the licensing Fee (the BBC) or advertizing (the rest)..

We do have premium cable and satellite offerings..

I myself would love to pay a license fee if I could get the BBC here.. Best natural history programming bar none. Worth every penny.

[LivinLOS]

You do. An old customer of mine used to keep the back off his TV and when it wasn't being used he would pull one of the panels out so he could say it was faulty and couldn't be used. When the licencing people knocked on his door he showed them the 'faulty' TV. They accepted that it didn't work but still prosecuted him for possessing a TV. He lost and was fined.

I think the law must have changed recently. As a student I used to apply for an exemption letter based on having a TV with the tuner removed.

The OP was asking about computers that could display TV signals. I have personnaly been warned by the TV guys for having a laptop with a tuner installed but no other TV's in the house (and no license ). When does a computer become a TV? When you install a tuner. When does a TV become a computer monitor/DVD screen ? When you remove the tuner. I think htese lines will become even more blurred when HD TV comes out - some of the TV's have no tuners installed.

OK.. How about using a media extender ??

Gets real gnarly then.. No tuner.. Can use a flat panel PC display.. Or projector.. No tuner in the house..

[sumrit]

You do. An old customer of mine used to keep the back off his TV and when it wasn't being used he would pull one of the panels out so he could say it was faulty and couldn't be used. When the licencing people knocked on his door he showed them the 'faulty' TV. They accepted that it didn't work but still prosecuted him for possessing a TV. He lost and was fined.

I think the law must have changed recently. As a student I used to apply for an exemption letter based on having a TV with the tuner removed.

The OP was asking about computers that could display TV signals. I have personnaly been warned by the TV guys for having a laptop with a tuner installed but no other TV's in the house (and no license ). When does a computer become a TV? When you install a tuner. When does a TV become a computer monitor/DVD screen ? When you remove the tuner. I think htese lines will become even more blurred when HD TV comes out - some of the TV's have no tuners installed.

OK.. How about using a media extender ??

Gets real gnarly then.. No tuner.. Can use a flat panel PC display.. Or projector.. No tuner in the house..

I'm not sure of the exact wording of the law now but if new technology means something is not covered by present legislation the UK government will change the law pretty quick.

About 20 years ago the legislation covered receiving transmitted signals in the VHF/UHF wavebands then along came Mr Murdoch with his Sky TV broadcast from satelite outside these frequencies so you didn't need a licence to watch it. The government changed the law within a couple of years to cover all transmitable frequencies. I'm not certain but I think thats when they also changed the law from 'watching' to 'possessing' a TV.

I guess, if it's not already covered, if they took the word transmitable out it would then cover the RGB signals sent from your PC to your monitor and the signals coming down the telephone line to your PC, but it's probably not quite that simple.

Edited October 9, 2007 by sumrit

[dsys]

The once prosecuted a blind guy who had a TV in his home.. He was even done for not having a color license when lets face it, black and white wouldnt have made much difference to him.

He should have bought the blind persons license its offers a 50% reduction as you can only hear the transmission. However if you link your hifi to a set top box without the picture no need.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/blind.jsp

You need a TV Licence to use any television receiving equipment such as a TV set, set-top boxes, video or DVD recorders, computers or mobile phones to watch or record TV programmes as they are being shown on TV.

If you use a set-top box with a hi-fi system or another device that can only be used to produce sounds and can't display TV programmes, and you don't install or use any other TV receiving equipment, you don't need a TV Licence.

Hence take the tuner out the TV no license needed. certificate is still required by a competent engineer.

[LivinLOS]

How do you get a TV (non digital this was back in the day) in the UK that 'only' has a STB.. Those were not on the market. He needed a TV tuner with audio only and no display..

Probably possible these days with a digi STB but not then.

[Crossy]

How do you get a TV (non digital this was back in the day) in the UK that 'only' has a STB.. Those were not on the market. He needed a TV tuner with audio only and no display..

Probably possible these days with a digi STB but not then.

You've been able to buy sound-only TV tuners for many years in the UK (aimed at the blind), no licence required.

[Daffy D]

You got to laugh!

The charge M’lud is very serious; the accused was found in possession of an unlicensed TV.

If you take your TV for repair could you be liable for the more serious charge of “possession of an unlicensed TV in a public place”?

Or more serious still if you have one of those small portable DVD players or a laptop with TV capability in your bag could you be liable for the very serious charge of “Possession of a concealed unlicensed TV in a public place”?

A creative prosecutor could build a whole career on this.

D.D.

[TommyGun]

I am wondering if a television card in a computer gives off the same signal as a standard television with regards to detection by the licencing authorities.

My reason for asking is quite simple. As I am in the UK for only 6 weeks or so a year I begrudge paying over £130 for a tv licence when I hardly watch any tv at all, even in those 6 weeks. I could happily watch tv on the computer and also record progs to the hard drive if they are not so easily detectable

Have you ried 4od. Channel 4 on demand.

[TommyGun]

Lets not also forget in the UK you have to have a licence for the radio too. If you don't have a tv and just listen to the radio, you have to get a black and white licence if i'm not mistaken. The main TV licence covers the radio too. Is this still the case.

[dsys]

Have you ried 4od. Channel 4 on demand.

Tried to get this working in Thailand - Would love to hear from anybody that has this working form outside the UK.

[sumrit]

Have you ried 4od. Channel 4 on demand.

Tried to get this working in Thailand - Would love to hear from anybody that has this working form outside the UK.

When I tried it I seem to remember getting a message saying it wan't available to any body outside the UK.

Bit stupid really, if you were in the UK you'd just turn the tele on, wouldn't you?

[endure]

Lets not also forget in the UK you have to have a licence for the radio too. If you don't have a tv and just listen to the radio, you have to get a black and white licence if i'm not mistaken. The main TV licence covers the radio too. Is this still the case.

You do not require a licence for radio in the UK. The license was abolished in 1971.

[bangkokrick]

If i was to install a tv card and tuner would i have to subscribe to a service to get the channels here in Thailand?

Cheers Rick