G"freind Needs To Pay $50000

[fantomas]

Hi i met my girlfreind at flinders university in adelaide early this year and i will propose to her when she gets back from doing a 6 months reflexology study in thailand (she is thai).The biggest problem we have is because the thai government paid for her nurse teaching degree(masters) they want the money back all at once times by 3 if she wants to live here. This is a whopping $50000 aussie!

Can these people be bargained with because the money they are asking is very unreosonable for anyone to come up with? I feel to that i will have to be the one having to deal with them because my girlfreind is to kind hearted and will go with whatever they say. Thanks as always in advance Heath.

[PvtDick]

That's a good one...never heard that one before!

[dfwbkk]

That's a good one...never heard that one before!

Me too,

That's a first (although I know that the airforce back in my home country Sweden will put restraints on you for a few years after they get you through your pilot's training).

Please elaborate. Do you have official correspondance from her school where this is outlined? Tell us more...

/// dfw

[PvtDick]

Seriously, though, before you even consider the possibility of negotiating with the government, you need to confirm that your girlfriend's claim is true.

If she had such an agreement when accepting her scholarship, she will have documentation. A contract or something. Tell her that you have been in touch with a lawyer in Thailand who might be able to get the amount lowered. Ask her for all of the related documentation to send to him.

Then, just find someone who can look it over for you to see if it is legit. I'd be happy to take a look if you want. Or, contact a lawyer.

[chingy_]

as far as i know, this thing do exist, its the government program where they pay for your education anywhere in the world, after you grad you have to return and work for them in a certain time frame.

[fantomas]

We have just started investigating so the ideas of lawyers and looking carefully at her contract is something i havent thought about. I do know that she will have to work for them for ten years if it doesnt get paid,this will also get her a phd.cheers Heath.

[dfwbkk]

You haven't looked at her contract yet, but you know she has to work for them for ten years? Now, wouldn't that be part of her contract?

Once again, the advice to U is to grow up and check the facts!!!!

/// dfw

[lopburi3]

Hi i met my girlfreind at flinders university in adelaide early this year and i will propose to her when she gets back from doing a 6 months reflexology study in thailand (she is thai).The biggest problem we have is because the thai government paid for her nurse teaching degree(masters) they want the money back all at once times by 3 if she wants to live here. This is a whopping $50000 aussie!

Can these people be bargained with because the money they are asking is very unreosonable for anyone to come up with? I feel to that i will have to be the one having to deal with them because my girlfreind is to kind hearted and will go with whatever they say. Thanks as always in advance Heath.

I don't know the details but that sounds like the system used. You receive government funding for education and have commitment to many years serving government run hospitals - to opt out is costly or most would do it and there would be no service available upcountry.

In this case the million baht sin sot may be justified.

[Aussie]

Hi i met my girlfreind at flinders university in adelaide early this year and i will propose to her when she gets back from doing a 6 months reflexology study in thailand (she is thai).The biggest problem we have is because the thai government paid for her nurse teaching degree(masters) they want the money back all at once times by 3 if she wants to live here. This is a whopping $50000 aussie!

Can these people be bargained with because the money they are asking is very unreosonable for anyone to come up with? I feel to that i will have to be the one having to deal with them because my girlfreind is to kind hearted and will go with whatever they say. Thanks as always in advance Heath.

It's correct, just heard it... installations are possible though...

[possom]

it sounds perfectly reasonable to me . she receives an expensive education and immediately bug**rs off to a foreign country!!!!! . how many impoverished thai kids could receive additional education for the same cost as educating someone who will just p**s off . many countries suffer the same fate , educating youth ,who then emigrate ,but thailand is probably in a needier state than others,when it comes to available funds to educate their youth . .

[regpye]

My wife was in exactly the same boat, but she had a wopping expense of 6,000,000 baht to pay if she wanted to leave her hospital, and also lose her pension as well, so we decided to wait until she has finished her 25 years (end of this year thank goodness) She has reached level 8 and most likely will get level 9 before the end of the year.

She did get training in various parts of the world, and was paid her salary while away training too, but they never took into account all the endless hours she worked in her own time to do things for the hospital, nor did they take into account the paper, ink and many other things that she had to provide herself for doing reports and training modules for other nurses.

Seems a bit one-sided to me, but TiT

Reg

[samran]

as long as she is legit, it is exactly the system they use. I used to work for the Thai government and the deal is that you repay them by working for twice the time you actually studied. HAving said that, $16K for a 6 months course for a international student at flinders uni, even with living allowance thrown in, is a bit rich to believe..

If all is above board though be thankful though she is under the new system, the old system required you pay back 3x the time you studied, my former boss was under a 20 year obligation to the Thai government.

if you are wanting to pay off the loan, but a bit concerned about your GF honesty, simply make out the cheque to the Royal Thai Goverment. As for negotiation, even if you are the son or daughter of a minister (as some of my former co-workers were) you are tied to the loan. Connections help you get the loan, but not get out of it!!!

[Darth Bangkok]

You haven't looked at her contract yet, but you know she has to work for them for ten years? Now, wouldn't that be part of her contract?

Once again, the advice to U is to grow up and check the facts!!!!

/// dfw

don't be so hard on him. his girlfriend might not even have a copy of the contract. thai society is all about people in power taking advantage of people who don't have power. these types of contracts exist in all areas of thai employment. sometimes an employer just hands the thai a contract and tells them to sign it. if the thai person wants to read it first they are told "just sign it, you don't need to read it" not even a verbal explanation. then try to get your thai girlfriend to explain to you what she signed! I am assuming that this girl is intelligent, but sharing information and explaining circumstances is not a strong trait of thai people. they just accept whatever 'poo yai' tell them ... no questions asked.

when I studied my mba at chulalongkorn, there were a lot of students who signed their lives away to be slaves to banks and other companies. they had to work for 7 years or more for less than ฿20,000 per month or pay back 3 times the tuition and room and board they were paid.

[autonomous_unit]

Count yourself lucky if the buy-out cost only has that many zeros in it. Those who went abroad for undergraduate and graduate studies can owe close to $1M US (triple costs w/ private universities) or 20+ years of service (double time away).

This is a missing survey category for the "where did you meet your..." or "what brought you to Thailand..." threads. A small minority of us really are here for reasons other than the usual three trotted out on these forums every week. Three months after our return, my wife is still waiting for an official determination of her buy-out cost... suffice it to say, we expect more trailing zeros than we can muster! Most of our practical belief about her options is from the grapevine of students who have returned ahead of us.

So it is not surprising that she may not know the full details of her contractual obligations. Not only because of the age at which students sign contracts and the "power play" being played against them by their sponsors (as described by Darth Bangkok), but also because the usual (TiT) oddities in interpretation and enforcement are to be found.

All in all, we hear that sponsors have made it very difficult to negotiate or get out in recent years because so many of their strongest scholars chose to bail out before and during the Asian financial crisis. Bear in mind, these contracts usually required cosigning by relatives who stay in Thailand, and as boggling as the debt is to a western pocketbook, it is only moreso to the Thai family.

[regpye]

My wife is in her last 6 months of her 25 year contract, and guess what they have done now? They have increased her salary more than double with promises of more after the contact has finished.

I think this is to try and keep her in the job after all the training she has done. Hope she doesn't change her mind and stay there.

[siam]

I just asked my g/f about this,and she said she was lucky enough her family paid for her masters degree,otherwise she would be in the same boat.

[surin]

We have just started investigating so the ideas of lawyers and looking carefully at her contract is something i havent thought about. I do know that she will have to work for them for ten years if it doesnt get paid,this will also get her a phd.cheers Heath.

Your G/F is correct...they are bonded to a particular hospital if they accept sponsorship whilst studying.

I think the last thing anyone wants, is for that system to collapse if the graduates' don't honour their committment to their sponsor....The sponsor is not only the Govt., but usually the Hospital or any other professional entity.

[cutethaigirl]

My wife is in her last 6 months of her 25 year contract, and guess what they have done now? They have increased her salary more than double with promises of more after the contact has finished.

I think this is to try and keep her in the job after all the training she has done. Hope she doesn't change her mind and stay there.

What rubbish you speak.

Why is the above unreasonable.

It is exactly the same as it would be anywhere in the world.

Of course the hospital want to keep such a valuable employee! It makes sense.

If you wife wants to do it then it is her choice and the hospital is offering an attraction to stay.

They provided the education for her and have expected and received their repayment.

All seems very fair???

It is just your opinion of a tried and tested system that is the problem not the system itself.

Put yourself in the shoe of the employer!

CT

[sriracha john]

it sounds perfectly reasonable to me . she receives an expensive education and immediately bug**rs off to a foreign country!!!!! . how many impoverished thai kids could receive additional education for the same cost as educating someone who will just p**s off . many countries suffer the same fate , educating youth ,who then emigrate ,but thailand is probably in a needier state than others,when it comes to available funds to educate their youth . .

Certainly worthy of repeating.

[autonomous_unit]

...

They provided the education for her and have expected and received their repayment.

All seems very fair???

It is just your opinion of a tried and tested system that is the problem not the system itself.

Put yourself in the shoe of the employer!

The same argument was surely made in the past to support indentured servitude and slavery. I know those are egregious examples but my point is that the difference is only a matter of degree. It is not that these study contracts are uniquely free of abuse and unfairness. The problem is in deciding what is a fair exchange rate between very different currencies: money and employee value for the sponsor vs. education and liberty for the student.

The cruelest part of these contracts, in my opinion, is when they are signed by 17 year olds who do not have the worldly experience to consider how trapped they may later feel. I would argue that most teenagers do not have enough experience to properly evaluate the benefits and costs of such a long-term contract.

It would be easier for me to accept if there were simple cultural differences in the apparent cost or risk to the individual, but a little question scratching at the back of my mind is whether Thai students accept these contracts for being a "good deal" or more out of desperation. I believe it is the responsibility of the sponsor, who is in a position of extreme power, to formulate a deal that is equitable and ethical, rather than to exploit the students. I am not convinced that this is the case today.

[britmaveric]

Obligation is an obligation.. no one forced he to sign. She wanted to better herself and agreed to an education in exchange for a number of years of work obligation. She should make the best of it or cough up the dosh.

[Rhys]

Mates, it is their game.... They call the shots..not much can be done. Somewhat a protection of the Brain Drain..syndrome...Especially in nursing circles...The old guard closes in and closes ranks..

[Martin_F]

It is quite fair.

Why should the sponser pay lots of money only to have no return.

For all these 17 year olds or what every age they are, they have three opens:

1: Take the sponsership and the related conditions;

2: Don't go overseas to study; or

3: Pay for it themselves.

I know which one I would take, unless the related conditions are really bad.

[penzman]

it sounds perfectly reasonable to me . she receives an expensive education and immediately bug**rs off to a foreign country!!!!! . how many impoverished thai kids could receive additional education for the same cost as educating someone who will just p**s off . many countries suffer the same fate , educating youth ,who then emigrate ,but thailand is probably in a needier state than others,when it comes to available funds to educate their youth . .

Well said!

[RooBoy]

That's a good one...never heard that one before!

Funny this sort of reply always comes from a certain group in Thailand. The sort of guys who have never dated a regular Thai girl?? So quick to yell out scam, because they dont know any better..

[Boon Mee]

That's a good one...never heard that one before!

Funny this sort of reply always comes from a certain group in Thailand. The sort of guys who have never dated a regular Thai girl?? So quick to yell out scam, because they dont know any better..

Please enlighten us O Wise One on just what is a "regular" Thai girl...

[autonomous_unit]

It is quite fair.

Why should the sponser pay lots of money only to have no return.

...

I claim that a benevolent sponsor should allow a way out that returns costs incurred. I think many students would still return and "work off" the contract instead of exercising the escape clause, due to family, wanting to improve their country, etc.

With a simplified US private education cost model (tuition, fees, and living stipend), I estimate a total expense of around $250,000 US to graduate today with a science or engineering PhD. This includes 1 year of prep-school, growing undergraduate costs for 4 years, and reduced costs in graduate school for 6 years (under the assumption that the student will work as a teaching or research assistant in their field to reduce fees).

As a baseline, assume a fixed-rate, simple interest loan with an APR of 7% and 11 years in school, yielding around $410,000 in principal upon graduation. I think this interest rate is generous, remembering that this is a long-term secured loan with the student's future as collateral.

So I think a fair buyout would be around or slightly over this $410,000 if paid upon graduation. Current contracts apparently use a factor of 2 instead of interest, meaning the student would owe $500,000 (equaling 10% interest). Contracts issued a decade ago used a factor of 3, meaning the student returning today instead owes $725,000 (equaling over 15% interest). I call that exploitive!

I also think a payment plan (rather than lump-sum buyout) should continue to use the same compounding interest model, e.g. 7%, rather than the absurd 20% or more than I have heard about from multiple students with these contracts. Thus, my hypothetical student could choose to remain in the US, but it would cost them $3100 US/month over the same 22 year period they would work for the sponsor. Hardly a free lunch.

[Darth Bangkok]

My wife is in her last 6 months of her 25 year contract, and guess what they have done now? They have increased her salary more than double with promises of more after the contact has finished.

I think this is to try and keep her in the job after all the training she has done. Hope she doesn't change her mind and stay there.

What rubbish you speak.

Why is the above unreasonable.

It is exactly the same as it would be anywhere in the world.

Of course the hospital want to keep such a valuable employee! It makes sense.

If you wife wants to do it then it is her choice and the hospital is offering an attraction to stay.

They provided the education for her and have expected and received their repayment.

All seems very fair???

It is just your opinion of a tried and tested system that is the problem not the system itself.

Put yourself in the shoe of the employer!

CT

I think he is trying to point out that his wife was being underpaid before this. so during the time she was paying off her indentured servitude, oh, I mean debt, they were valuing her work less, and hence it took longer to pay off. now that it is paid off or about to be paid off, they are paying her what she is really worth. or as the writer feels, what she should have been getting all along. so he is right to say that his wife should quit as soon as she can because why should she work for someone who has systematically taken advantage of her over a number of years?

[NedKelly]

The Phillipines is experiencing a terrible shortage of nurses in their hospitals. Not sure if they got o/s training or not, but as the pay is so low there, many have moved to other countries to gain employment evenif it means working as a nurses aid due to inferior training.

Makes me wonder whyThailand does not use all this scholarship/sponsorship money in a better way. They could bring the expert trainers from o/s to here to provide training inThailand. It would cost a lot less and they could train a lot more nurses. It should free up the need for bonding nurses for so long. Now theres a thought for a buinsess......a private nurse training school/university.