American Man Falls To His Death From 12th-floor Condo

[sriracha john]

Thank God that when I was a homicide detective in the USA

Thank you very much for a rational post that's been sorely missing. I was previously unaware of your past occupation. Would you care to say a few professional words regarding your nickname's case?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=78424&hl=

Edited October 12, 2007 by sriracha john

[farang prince]

Thank God that when I was a homicide detective in the USA

Thank you very much for a rational post that's been sorely missing. I was previously unaware of your past occupation. Would you care to say a few professional words regarding your nickname's case?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=78424&hl=

Yes I remember the case of the mysterious death of the "Farang Prince" while he was incarcerated here. Were the results of the second autopsy in Spain ever reported? I think that would certainly reveal a great deal of the truth in the matter.

[sriracha john]

Thank you. I've never seen those results posted anywhere... but I also don't wish to go take this off-topic, so I'll return it to the speculators of this case.

[qualtrough]

Thanks farang prince for injecting some rationality into this discussion. Your gun theory has merit. As you point out, firearms are readily available back home (if you are from the US), while restricted for farangs here. Additionally, property laws restrict large numbers of farangs to multi-level condos, making jumping a readily available and popular 'weapon of choice.'

While not in law enforcement, I worked one summer in a regional archives center. To pass the time I would read stored coroners reports, many of them covering suicides. I learned that people kill themselves in ways that often appear very bizarre, and often with no discernible motive. Although I cannot provide a source, I recall reading that in the US something like less than 50% of the people committing suicide leave no note, so that fact is no prima facie indication that a suicide might be a murder.

[permanent_disorder]

One thing I have observed which is quite obvious is that stupid people very rarely kill themselves.

but maybe the homicide, murder and foul play ratio is much higher amongst them. your social and intellectual background determines your conclusions. you see what you know.

anyway there are some studies out that link intelligence with suicide rates

here is an interesting read "Only the bright commit suicide"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_...ticle996719.ece

and the not so bright can not even imagine that people commit suicide (or have at least a sense of decency.)

[brahmburgers]

Thank God that when I was a homicide detective in the USA, I didn't have any partners like some of these posters. There is no room for mindless speculation in a homicide investigation. You go where the evidence leads you. If you have no evidence, you have no case. I'd love to see some of the posters on TV go into court and try to testify to their "theories." Trust me, you would have a tough time trying to walk out of court after getting reamed by the judge and the defense attorneys.

Now, in this particular case that everyone is abuzz about...the investigation is two-pronged. The Medical Examiner will need to inspect the body for signs of trauma not associated with the fall. And toxicology tests should be undertaken to determine if there were drugs or high quantities of alcohol in the system. The Royal Thai Police should closely examine the scene to determine if there were signs of a struggle. And since the wife indicated her husband was reading emails before his death, they should gain a Permission to Search Affidavit from the widow so they can legally review these emails to determine if there is anything to indicate a state of mind before his fall. If there is still a question about whether this is a suicide or homicide (called Suspicious Death), the investigators should interview neighbors to determine if they heard anything on the night of the death or if there was a history of domestic disputes. If the death continues to be questionable, then detectives should conduct a thorough interrogation of the wife (you always begin a homicide investigation by interviewing the person(s) who was (were) last with the victim and then expand the investigation to those individuals who had an ongoing relationship with the victim).

At each step in the investigatory process, you have to "clear" potential suspects before moving on to other potential suspects. This means that the detective is satisified through evidence and/or alibies that the suspect could not possibly have committed the crime (it does not mean that they might not have been involved in a conspiracy to commit the crime). It is called working a case from the inside out. Within a reasonable amount of time, there has to be a meshing of forensic evidence and investigatory evidence in order to make a determination that the death was the result of suicide or to establish probable cause to file charges against a suspect. While there is no statute of limitations involving a death, the grim reality of the police business is that if you can't close a case within a few weeks it will move on to the Cold Case Unit because there will be other newer homicides that will require your attention.

By the way, I investigated more than 150 suicides before I retired.

I respect FarangPrince's experience in investigative matters, but to assume Thai investigators will perform their duties in a logical and professional manner is wishful thinking. Comparing Thai detectives ability to European or American is like comparing Thai drivers to farang drivers. Some Thai drivers may actually know the rules of the road, but how many actually adhere to them?

I base my overview of Thai detective prowess on the many cases that appear to have been done sloppily, in haste, and with a predetermined conclusion from the get-go. That's why someone like Ms Porntip has proved to be such an exception. She's one of the few Thai professionals in the biz that can actually let the facts speak for themselves - and that's why she's reviled by most police higher-ups as a rogue element. Thailand needs a lot more like Porntip, who are willing to do a thorough job, and aren't afraid to buck the system.

[Tony Clifton]

Thank God that when I was a homicide detective in the USA, I didn't have any partners like some of these posters. There is no room for mindless speculation in a homicide investigation. You go where the evidence leads you. If you have no evidence, you have no case. I'd love to see some of the posters on TV go into court and try to testify to their "theories." Trust me, you would have a tough time trying to walk out of court after getting reamed by the judge and the defense attorneys.

Now, in this particular case that everyone is abuzz about...the investigation is two-pronged. The Medical Examiner will need to inspect the body for signs of trauma not associated with the fall. And toxicology tests should be undertaken to determine if there were drugs or high quantities of alcohol in the system. The Royal Thai Police should closely examine the scene to determine if there were signs of a struggle. And since the wife indicated her husband was reading emails before his death, they should gain a Permission to Search Affidavit from the widow so they can legally review these emails to determine if there is anything to indicate a state of mind before his fall. If there is still a question about whether this is a suicide or homicide (called Suspicious Death), the investigators should interview neighbors to determine if they heard anything on the night of the death or if there was a history of domestic disputes. If the death continues to be questionable, then detectives should conduct a thorough interrogation of the wife (you always begin a homicide investigation by interviewing the person(s) who was (were) last with the victim and then expand the investigation to those individuals who had an ongoing relationship with the victim).

At each step in the investigatory process, you have to "clear" potential suspects before moving on to other potential suspects. This means that the detective is satisified through evidence and/or alibies that the suspect could not possibly have committed the crime (it does not mean that they might not have been involved in a conspiracy to commit the crime). It is called working a case from the inside out. Within a reasonable amount of time, there has to be a meshing of forensic evidence and investigatory evidence in order to make a determination that the death was the result of suicide or to establish probable cause to file charges against a suspect. While there is no statute of limitations involving a death, the grim reality of the police business is that if you can't close a case within a few weeks it will move on to the Cold Case Unit because there will be other newer homicides that will require your attention.

One last thing. Some poster wondered why Thailand had so many jumper cases. My guess is that is a direct result of many farangs not owning firearms in LOS. In the USA, the most popular form of suicide for men in my personal experience is the use of a firearm. The second most likely method is an overdose of alcohol and/or drugs. Third is hanging. Fourth is cutting one's wrists or arteries. Fifth are jumping cases. Sixth is asphyxiation from carbon monoxide from a vehicle.

By the way, I investigated more than 150 suicides before I retired.

Interesting.

Where would you say death by asphyxiation stands? The plastic bag over the head. Not the case here of course but I was always suspicious of foreigners using this method here, most were murders to me as I've personally never heard of this method used in the West and reported circumstances by local media were not very convincing.

[gharknes]

American man falls to his death from 12th-floor condo

An American man fell to his death from his condominium on the 12th floor early Wednesday morning.

Police said James Robert Mondy, 56, felled from his room on the 12th floor of the 17-storey VP Tower on Soi Rangnam in Rajthevi district at 1 am.

His Thai wife, Duangta, 28, told police that she went to bed when the man was reading his emails and she was woken up by his shout, saying "I'm power."

She said she saw her husband jump down.

She said she has been living with him for three years.

Source: The Nation - 10 October 2007

"I'm power." ???????????????????????? doesn't sound like something anyone would say no matter what

perhaps she made that bit up

[gharknes]

Unbelievable - give her a break.

Why? She is the prime suspect and she should be the prime suspect.

No she isn't, and why should the man's wife be a suspect?

motive perhaps

[permanent_disorder]

The plastic bag over the head. Not the case here of course but I was always suspicious of foreigners using this method here, most were murders to me as I've personally never heard of this method used in the West and reported circumstances by local media were not very convincing.

sherlock, as someone mentioned here before - is a recommended method on many webpages about "how to do it".

get yourself informed, just google it, look for the 'exit bag'.

because you never personally heard of it as a suicide method doesn't mean it has been murder.

and someone else was asking, why is there are no reports of female suicides, it's much more common amongs males.

use your armchair investigation talent to look for some statistics on that matter. more people die from suicide than from homicide in many countries.

[farang prince]

Thanks farang prince for injecting some rationality into this discussion. Your gun theory has merit. As you point out, firearms are readily available back home (if you are from the US), while restricted for farangs here. Additionally, property laws restrict large numbers of farangs to multi-level condos, making jumping a readily available and popular 'weapon of choice.'

While not in law enforcement, I worked one summer in a regional archives center. To pass the time I would read stored coroners reports, many of them covering suicides. I learned that people kill themselves in ways that often appear very bizarre, and often with no discernible motive. Although I cannot provide a source, I recall reading that in the US something like less than 50% of the people committing suicide leave no note, so that fact is no prima facie indication that a suicide might be a murder.

That's very true Qualtrough, in my experience less than 50% of the people committing suicide leave a note. Often it is a spur-of-the-moment action. Investigators have to interview family members and friends to determine the victim's state of mind prior to the suicide. And yes, you are absolutely right about some people killling themselves in pretty bizarre ways. We have had more than a few people who went out on the interstate highway and just stepped in front of a truck.

And then you have the accidental deaths that were not intended suicides. One case I worked on involved a very prominent physician who was found hung in the living room of his home. His legs were bound to a chair and he had a noose tightly closed on his neck. The chair was knocked over and the victim was laying on his side. The victim's parents were part of the social hierarchy on the East Coast. The Medical Examiner ruled that death was caused by asphyxiation. He also noted that the victim had a large amount of alcohol in his system. The case had all the earmarks of a homicide and we were getting a lot of pressure from the victim's parents to make a quick arrest. But one thing troubled us...the victim's hands were not tied. And that was the key to the case. After interviewing the victim's estranged wife, we found out that the victim was into auto-eroticism. We recreated the death and theorized that the victim had come home very drunk from a party. He had tied himself up in the chair, put the noose over his neck, attaching the rope from his neck to his ankles, which were also bound. By moving his ankles back and forth, he could cut off air to his windpipe, thus generating auto-erotic self-stimulation. The problem was the good doctor was drunk and he tipped his chair over, thus losing control over the rope around his neck. It ended up killing him. I've got to tell you, when we arrived at our conclusion, our Lieutenant audibly gasped. And when we told the victim's parents what happened (they insisted on all the details), the mother just about went beserk. It was the hardest hour I ever spent with the next-of-kin of a victim. The parents I'm sure went to their graves totally disbelieving our conclusion. But the facts are the facts. If the victim's hands had been tied, it would have been murder. Without that fact, it was an accidental death.

Edited October 13, 2007 by farang prince

[ding]

I'd like to take this opportunity to definitively state that I am not, and never have been, suicidal.

I will never take my own life.

Thanks for looking!

[Steely Dan]

Just a thought, but what with all these people falling/jumping of high rise buildings do they ever fall on somebody down below on the ground?

That happened here in 95 or 96 or thereabouts. A young expat girl was laying on a recliner at a pool where her family lived and some idiot jumped and hit her. They both died.

We had a jumper in the condo where I lived a couple of years back. Hit the bonnet of a passing Toyota, which must have given the driver a large shock and unusual insurance claim.

[mikethevigoman]

Just a thought, but what with all these people falling/jumping of high rise buildings do they ever fall on somebody down below on the ground?

That happened here in 95 or 96 or thereabouts. A young expat girl was laying on a recliner at a pool where her family lived and some idiot jumped and hit her. They both died.

We had a jumper in the condo where I lived a couple of years back. Hit the bonnet of a passing Toyota, which must have given the driver a large shock and unusual insurance claim.

Was it " flying farang f@cks fortuner !

[mike_rad]

somewhat like Einstein saying 'we are all energy' (I don't know, did Einstein say that?)

Probably not, or if he did, it was plagiarised like the theory of relativity.

[lazeeboy]

American man falls to his death from 12th-floor condo

An American man fell to his death from his condominium on the 12th floor early Wednesday morning.

Police said James Robert Mondy, 56, felled from his room on the 12th floor of the 17-storey VP Tower on Soi Rangnam in Rajthevi district at 1 am.

His Thai wife, Duangta, 28, told police that she went to bed when the man was reading his emails and she was woken up by his shout, saying "I'm power."

She said she saw her husband jump down.

She said she has been living with him for three years.

Source: The Nation - 10 October 2007

"I'm power." ???????????????????????? doesn't sound like something anyone would say no matter what

perhaps she made that bit up

sa la la la la push push .