Mae Sai/Tachilek Border Info

[heybruce]

I did the border crossing earlier today. It was a slow day at the border and everything was normal except they are checking passports more carefully. I went through three police checkpoints on the bus from Chiang Mai (typical), they took only a brief look at my passport at the first two (also typical) but at the final checkpoint the officer actually looked at my passport and checked to see if I had overstayed. That was a first for me.

When re-entering Thailand I asked for the standard white paper form to fill out--entry/exit slip; before giving it to me they first checked my passport to make sure I had the Cambodia stamp. The Immigration officer then watched me fill out the forms and asked, in English, a couple of questions about my Thailand address, also a first for me. It was a very slow day, maybe he was bored or maybe this is a new procedure.

None of this was a big deal, people who are doing everything legally should have no problems.

[thai006]

I did the border crossing earlier today. It was a slow day at the border and everything was normal except they are checking passports more carefully. I went through three police checkpoints on the bus from Chiang Mai (typical), they took only a brief look at my passport at the first two (also typical) but at the final checkpoint the officer actually looked at my passport and checked to see if I had overstayed. That was a first for me.

When re-entering Thailand I asked for the standard white paper form to fill out--entry/exit slip; before giving it to me they first checked my passport to make sure I had the Cambodia stamp. The Immigration officer then watched me fill out the forms and asked, in English, a couple of questions about my Thailand address, also a first for me. It was a very slow day, maybe he was bored or maybe this is a new procedure.

None of this was a big deal, people who are doing everything legally should have no problems.

did you make border run 15 / 30 day ?

[Paul888]

I was asked to show 20,000 at Mae Sai a couple of years ago but I only had about 8,000 on me and the lady wasn't impressed.

She didn't accept the ATM receipt from 2 hours earlier or the sms from my bank showing my balance and was just standing there saying no 20,000 no entry. There was a long queue behind me so I said "Do you want me to walk over to that ATM and take out another 12k?" and to my surprise she said yes, so I did.

Two minutes later I returned with the additional 12k and she made me count the full 20k out in front of her before reluctantly letting me in with a scowl.

Point of the story. Mae Sai is not a predictable border at the best of times so always be prepared.

Let me guess: you weren't dressed formally, with coat and tie, like a guy posing for an advert in a clothes magazine. Border personnel are hopelessly subjective, as are all Thai bureaucrats. If they saw Jeffry Dahmer (the serial killer) dressed in a nice suit, and Bill Gates dressed in bluejeans and a scruffy shirt. They would kowtow for Dahmer, and give Gates a hard time. Appearances are 95% of the game with Thai bureaucrats. Feigned politeness is the other 5%.

A nice appearance and feigned politeness seems like a pretty easy game to play to me. Makes me wonder why anyone would ever have problems.

Doesn't matter how nice your appearance is or how polite you are, meet the wrong official at the wrong time on the wrong day and you will have additional hoops to jump through. Wherever you are in the world.

[heybruce]

I did the border crossing earlier today. It was a slow day at the border and everything was normal except they are checking passports more carefully. I went through three police checkpoints on the bus from Chiang Mai (typical), they took only a brief look at my passport at the first two (also typical) but at the final checkpoint the officer actually looked at my passport and checked to see if I had overstayed. That was a first for me.

When re-entering Thailand I asked for the standard white paper form to fill out--entry/exit slip; before giving it to me they first checked my passport to make sure I had the Cambodia stamp. The Immigration officer then watched me fill out the forms and asked, in English, a couple of questions about my Thailand address, also a first for me. It was a very slow day, maybe he was bored or maybe this is a new procedure.

None of this was a big deal, people who are doing everything legally should have no problems.

did you make border run 15 / 30 day ?

I have a one year multiple-entry non-immigrant visa. I get 90 days when I re-enter. I prefer the border for the shopping and because I don't like the local immigration office.

[sceadugenga]

I've never had a problem with the border office or the MaeSai immigration office, I dress casually in shoes, long pants and shirt with a collar and have never had a reason to be impolite to a Thai government official.

[villagefarang]

I've never had a problem with the border office or the MaeSai immigration office, I dress casually in shoes, long pants and shirt with a collar and have never had a reason to be impolite to a Thai government official.

I think heybruce is from Chiang Mai and we have all heard about the nightmare that is CM immigration. CR immigration by comparison is amazing.

Edited September 29, 2015 by villagefarang

[boomerangutang]

Doesn't matter how nice your appearance is or how polite you are, meet the wrong official at the wrong time on the wrong day and you will have additional hoops to jump through. Wherever you are in the world.

Right on the mark. I always start off polite. 19 out of 20 times, no problems. However, I had a problem last month on a 1 year renewal. It was late in the day (another factor which will add a potential problem, makinng border officials irritable). It was a combination of prickly issues for me and the woman bureaucrat. I showed her my tabian ban (house registration with my name on it) but I made the mistake of saying I owned my property (which I do). I could see the red flags going up in her brain. She made herself angry and then demanded I get the Thai person on the phone (every yellow tabian ban has a Thai name behind it). I didn't have the # on hand, but was able to find it via some frantic phone calls (the Mae Sai office was about to close and I had a ticket to the US leaving in a few hrs from Bkk). I handed her the phone. She proceeded to blast a monologue at the Thai friend which lasted a few minutes. There was no break for him to say anything. Then she handed the phone to me. He said I could get the visa extension, but he was wrong. The bureaucrat had worked herself in to a lather already, and refused to give me a visa even though my papers were 100% in order. She won. I will cost me over ten thousand baht to get back in the groove, plus several days of traveling to and from Vientienne. All because I stupidly said one bit of truth ('I own my property'). Moral of the story: Be polite (no matter how crabby the other person is), dress as nice as possible, don't say anything outside the box, whether truthful or not.

P.S. a farang friend of mine (with a fat pension) who also had all his papers in order, was so discouraged by the rude attitude of Thai Imm authorities, that he's gone and bought an apartment in his home country. He's been in Thailand 11 years and was planning to keep staying here, but the unnecessary hassles by bureaucrats has turned him away from Thailand. There are many others in similar soup. Another moral to the story: get a high class Thai wife to accompany you. If not married, get a high-class Thai woman to accompany you on any bureaucratic activity. It will be a big advantage. It's also good if you personally know the bureaucrat. It again proves the premise that Thai bureaucrats are deeply subjective and proves the addage: Apprearances and politeness are very important to Thai. Substance takes a back seat.

Note: politeness is often a feigned way of being. Being decent with others should come of itself (for adults, anyway). When we're little kids, our parents are always teaching us to be polite. Yet, as kids similarly as adults, we know it's quite often an act, rather than sincere. If you're a soldier and a superior officer tells your you're an assh*le, you are required to take it in stride. Similarly, if you're waiting in line at a Thai bank, and someone comes in the door and goes straight to the head of the line, you're required to say nothing and act like all's fine. Your real nature would want to react dynamically, but your polite training tells you to grin and bear it, as if it's fine. Thais want the polite act. They can't handle reality.

I've never had a problem with the border office or the MaeSai immigration office, I dress casually in shoes, long pants and shirt with a collar and have never had a reason to be impolite to a Thai government official.

Good for you. I've walked through fields and never had a snake bite me. ....but some people have been bitten by snakes.

[villagefarang]

I was asked to show 20,000 at Mae Sai a couple of years ago but I only had about 8,000 on me and the lady wasn't impressed.

She didn't accept the ATM receipt from 2 hours earlier or the sms from my bank showing my balance and was just standing there saying no 20,000 no entry. There was a long queue behind me so I said "Do you want me to walk over to that ATM and take out another 12k?" and to my surprise she said yes, so I did.

Two minutes later I returned with the additional 12k and she made me count the full 20k out in front of her before reluctantly letting me in with a scowl.

Point of the story. Mae Sai is not a predictable border at the best of times so always be prepared.

Let me guess: you weren't dressed formally, with coat and tie, like a guy posing for an advert in a clothes magazine. Border personnel are hopelessly subjective, as are all Thai bureaucrats. If they saw Jeffry Dahmer (the serial killer) dressed in a nice suit, and Bill Gates dressed in bluejeans and a scruffy shirt. They would kowtow for Dahmer, and give Gates a hard time. Appearances are 95% of the game with Thai bureaucrats. Feigned politeness is the other 5%.

A nice appearance and feigned politeness seems like a pretty easy game to play to me. Makes me wonder why anyone would ever have problems.

Doesn't matter how nice your appearance is or how polite you are, meet the wrong official at the wrong time on the wrong day and you will have additional hoops to jump through. Wherever you are in the world.

You can dispute Boomer’s math if you wish but if he says 95% and 5% I take that as gospel. Surely he would never exaggerate or misrepresent and always presents and unbiased view.

[boomerangutang]

I just did some int'l travling. Airport in China has line after line after line, each moving very slowly. You move 2 inches/minute in one line filled with 136 people, get through, and within 30 paces there's another similar line, - about 6 times in a row. Then arriving at Suwamboom, there are two lines for getting thru Immigration. Each has about 340 people. Of 12 processing booths, only 5 are manned. If tourism is Thailand's biggest outside money generator, why can't they get a few more people to man the Imm. booths? Average wait, about an hour, and many of those folks have been traveling for tens of hours already. It couldn't be because Thailand has a dearth of English speakers (some say worst % in SE Asia), could it? Banish the thought.

[villagefarang]

I have never waited in line for an hour but I guess it could happen. I am even less sure what English proficiency in Thailand has to do with airport immigration. I always hand them my passport and immigration form, stand in front of the camera, they stamp my passport and hand it back. Unless one is intent on starting an argument or calling them stupid, I am not sure where language really enters in.

[boomerangutang]

Imm officials need to have at least a cursory handle on English, and hopefully a few other languages. I'm sure basic English is required for the job.

[heybruce]

I've never had a problem with the border office or the MaeSai immigration office, I dress casually in shoes, long pants and shirt with a collar and have never had a reason to be impolite to a Thai government official.

I think heybruce is from Chiang Mai and we have all heard about the nightmare that is CM immigration. CR immigration by comparison is amazing.

Correct, plus there was an incident several years ago during which CM Immigration seemed to look for any excuse to revoke legitimate education visas after CMU had a dispute with a language school they had contracted with. I haven't been back to CM Immigration since, even though I have a legitimate visa.

[boomerangutang]

Note: always look at your passport page after getting a rubber stamp from an Imm authority. They're human. They make mistakes. At least twice I've noticed a mistake after being handed my passport. Each time, they kindly corrected the error.

[sceadugenga]

I came through Nong Khai immigration last year with a new double entry, as I walked away on the Thailand side I saw that I'd been given a 15 day exemption...

Yes, look every time.

[boomerangutang]

Now MS/Tachilek border is closed for day pass (VIP pass) again. No explanation. The official just grinned and said 'Bangkok.' I honestly can't think of any reason why they would want to keep tourists from visiting the market on the Burmese side. Oh, now I remember. An American friend of mine was refused last summer and the reason from Thai Imm official (after she said she didn't know), was, "Why you spend money in Burma? You can spend money in Thailand." I guess that's about as good as we can expect from Thai officialdom.

Also: Thai Imm sages in Bangkok have constricted the # of days allowed on re-entry. It was 30 days visa-on-arrival for members of G8 countries (and a few other countries, depending on the whim of the officer at the desk). Now it's 15 days for everyone. However, coming in by plane on a prior visa-on-arrival is 30 days, as best as I can tell.

Stay tuned. The regulations change hourly - all on the whims of the wise men in Bangkok and their underlings in the provinces, some of whom got their positions via the Ministry of Inactive Posts.

[Will27]

Now MS/Tachilek border is closed for day pass (VIP pass) again. No explanation. The official just grinned and said 'Bangkok.' I honestly can't think of any reason why they would want to keep tourists from visiting the market on the Burmese side. Oh, now I remember. An American friend of mine was refused last summer and the reason from Thai Imm official (after she said she didn't know), was, "Why you spend money in Burma? You can spend money in Thailand." I guess that's about as good as we can expect from Thai officialdom.

Also: Thai Imm sages in Bangkok have constricted the # of days allowed on re-entry. It was 30 days visa-on-arrival for members of G8 countries (and a few other countries, depending on the whim of the officer at the desk). Now it's 15 days for everyone. However, coming in by plane on a prior visa-on-arrival is 30 days, as best as I can tell.

Stay tuned. The regulations change hourly - all on the whims of the wise men in Bangkok and their underlings in the provinces, some of whom got their positions via the Ministry of Inactive Posts.

I'm not sure this is correct.

Do you have any links to this?

AFAIK, you still get 30 days if you're a member of a G7 country and have not seen anything that says otherwise.

[uptheos]

Note: always look at your passport page after getting a rubber stamp from an Imm authority. They're human. They make mistakes. At least twice I've noticed a mistake after being handed my passport. Each time, they kindly corrected the error.

Kindly corrected the error?

So they should, with a big fat khorthoot and wai to go with it!

[boomerangutang]

Now MS/Tachilek border is closed for day pass (VIP pass) again. No explanation. The official just grinned and said 'Bangkok.' I honestly can't think of any reason why they would want to keep tourists from visiting the market on the Burmese side. Oh, now I remember. An American friend of mine was refused last summer and the reason from Thai Imm official (after she said she didn't know), was, "Why you spend money in Burma? You can spend money in Thailand." I guess that's about as good as we can expect from Thai officialdom.

Also: Thai Imm sages in Bangkok have constricted the # of days allowed on re-entry. It was 30 days visa-on-arrival for members of G8 countries (and a few other countries, depending on the whim of the officer at the desk). Now it's 15 days for everyone. However, coming in by plane on a prior visa-on-arrival is 30 days, as best as I can tell.

Stay tuned. The regulations change hourly - all on the whims of the wise men in Bangkok and their underlings in the provinces, some of whom got their positions via the Ministry of Inactive Posts.

I'm not sure this is correct.

Do you have any links to this?

AFAIK, you still get 30 days if you're a member of a G7 country and have not seen anything that says otherwise.

My Swedish friend went up to the window on the arrivals side (those coming in to Thailand from Tachilek) and asked the officer woman there.

She clearly said what I reported: ONLY 15 DAY EXTENTIONS FOR VISA-ON-ARRIVAL. He asked her (I was standing a few meters away and couldn't hear their conversation) and apparently it's for all entrants, even G7 or G8. Though, upon further reflection, she may have based her statement on his Swedish passport. Sweden is not part of G7 or G8. However, I made it clear to him, to ask her about all nationalities, and he conveyed his assertion (to me) that it did apply to all, including G8.

This harkens to my earlier missive: The officials there are subjective, and their policies can waver day by day, hour by hour. On the Burmese side, no problems, except minor tiffs about whether they'll accept us$10 or not. It's the Thai side which is the pain-in-the-u-no-what.

[boomerangutang]

Note, for the precision freaks among us: 15 days = 14 days and 30 days = 29 days.

In other words, if you arrive in Bkk and get processed at 11:58 pm, those next 2 minutes count for you first full day.

[boomerangutang]

Stuffing the border crossing from the Thai side is also anathema for Burmese vendors. Things were ok for them between 10 and 20 yrs ago, with decent # of tourists. With the Yellows closing the Bkk airport and then Red shirts rioting, and now a junta controlling Thailand, ...tourism numbers have trickled down low. There are Chinese tourists, but they don't spend much (except on perfume) and they don't hire guides, as farang tourists do.

Mae Sai tourist-related vendors are also having a tough time, but it's worse on the Burmese side.

Why are Thai officials curtailing cross-border visits? If anyone has a good answer, please post it.

Sometimes it seems as though TAT is doing everything wrong. It doesn't help that the Ko Tao murder case keeps dragging on, slagging RTP's reputation through the mud - while also reminding potential tourists of the danger factor of coming to Thailand. Someone told me recently that Pattaya's tourist #'s are also waaaaay down. Streets that used to be packed are near empty.

[Will27]

Now MS/Tachilek border is closed for day pass (VIP pass) again. No explanation. The official just grinned and said 'Bangkok.' I honestly can't think of any reason why they would want to keep tourists from visiting the market on the Burmese side. Oh, now I remember. An American friend of mine was refused last summer and the reason from Thai Imm official (after she said she didn't know), was, "Why you spend money in Burma? You can spend money in Thailand." I guess that's about as good as we can expect from Thai officialdom.

Also: Thai Imm sages in Bangkok have constricted the # of days allowed on re-entry. It was 30 days visa-on-arrival for members of G8 countries (and a few other countries, depending on the whim of the officer at the desk). Now it's 15 days for everyone. However, coming in by plane on a prior visa-on-arrival is 30 days, as best as I can tell.

Stay tuned. The regulations change hourly - all on the whims of the wise men in Bangkok and their underlings in the provinces, some of whom got their positions via the Ministry of Inactive Posts.

I'm not sure this is correct.

Do you have any links to this?

AFAIK, you still get 30 days if you're a member of a G7 country and have not seen anything that says otherwise.

My Swedish friend went up to the window on the arrivals side (those coming in to Thailand from Tachilek) and asked the officer woman there.

She clearly said what I reported: ONLY 15 DAY EXTENTIONS FOR VISA-ON-ARRIVAL. He asked her (I was standing a few meters away and couldn't hear their conversation) and apparently it's for all entrants, even G7 or G8. Though, upon further reflection, she may have based her statement on his Swedish passport. Sweden is not part of G7 or G8. However, I made it clear to him, to ask her about all nationalities, and he conveyed his assertion (to me) that it did apply to all, including G8.

This harkens to my earlier missive: The officials there are subjective, and their policies can waver day by day, hour by hour. On the Burmese side, no problems, except minor tiffs about whether they'll accept us$10 or not. It's the Thai side which is the pain-in-the-u-no-what.

Well, there's more than enough confusion there, to not make sweeping statements like "Now it's 15 days for everyone".

The Immigration officer's English might not be great, so it's easy to see some confusion. It wouldn't be an outrageous

assumption to think she was referring to the Swedish passport in front of her.

I'm sure there would be something on TV about it if it had been changed.

So, I'm assuming it's business as usual and it's 30 days unless I see it in writing from a reliable source.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Will27

[boomerangutang]

it could be up to her whim - whether she likes the look of the person on the other side of the tinted window, whether he smells nice, shaved his face, smiles appropriately.

[villagefarang]

Clean, well groomed and pleasant doesn't sound all that difficult to me. Certainly that is a small price to pay for good service.

[boomerangutang]

Clean, well groomed and pleasant doesn't sound all that difficult to me. Certainly that is a small price to pay for good service.

So, you're ok with immigration rules based on subjectivity/mood of the person at the desk? If a farang adheres to the rules, that farang should be ok, shouldn't she? But wait a kotonipikin minute. It's not good enough to adhere to the rules, the farang should also look appealing to the bureaucrat. Visa issues are important to farang. They can have a large bearing on that person's travel plans. Bureaucrats, for their part, are supposed to uphold the rules. Bureaucrats shouldn't change the rules according to whether a person's top button is buttoned on their shirt, or whether that person shaved well enough that morning, or perhaps that person has a tiny bit of food on her lip, or a tiny bit of booger showing in the applicant's nose.

Do I, as a visiting farang, have to measure up to the bureaucrat's standard of decency in order to be granted a visa? Millionaire Don Johnson wouldn't be allowed entry (not properly shaven). Neither would Bill Gates or Steve Jobs if they had 5-o'clock shadow or wearing used bluejeans they often wear.

[villagefarang]

I my experience it is always the same people who have problems here in Thailand. Raised voice, contorted facial expressions and wild gesticulation combined with a voice dripping with contempt and distain while endlessly repeating the word why won’t serve you well anywhere in the world. I have seen it more times than I care to remember. Immigration officials are people too and being subjected to that kind of behavior day in and day out must take its toll. I am surprised they treat us as politely as they do.

[sceadugenga]

It's a common sense thing to me, I once knew a guy who lived in a border crossing town (information withheld to protect the guilty) who looked like someone who had been rejected by a gang of outlaw bikers on hair and dress code standards.

He informed me that he had no problems crossing the border in his home town as they had "got to know him" but once I (coincidentally) crossed the Lao border in his company.

It took him three hours, to my ten minutes.

Now I agree this is discrimination and a case could be made for those who stand by their principals but I was still in Vientiane 2 hours and 50 minutes sooner than him.

[villagefarang]

I find it interesting that in my country of origin they tell visa holders that entry into the country is at the discretion of the immigration officer and a valid visa is no guarantee of entry. I cringe at the thought of what would happen to someone who acted the way foreigners often do here in Thailand, upon trying to enter my home country.

Edited October 11, 2015 by villagefarang

[sceadugenga]

Instant body cavity search?

[boomerangutang]

So, from what you've written, VF, it sounds like you're ok with subjective sanctioning of the rules by Thai imm authorities. In other words, if they're having a bad day (maybe one or more arguments with farang prior to you encountering them), or if you remind them of a character in a TV show they saw the night before, who was a peodophile, or if you have bad breath, .......then it's fine for the official to deny you entry into her country. Yes or no?

What I'm saying is bureaucrats job description is to make sure applicants adhere to rules. If an applicant adheres to the rules (written by the bureaucrat's superior), then that should be good enough. Bureaucrats should not conduct their jobs subjectively.

As for VF's assumptions that I am personally grubby or rude. He can speculate for hours, but he can't know, because he doesn't know me. I may be better groomed and more polite/charming than him. I'm framing this discussion in generalities. I don't want to personalize it.

Note, sometimes a raised voice in Thailand is what's needed to get things done correctly. If you want, I can articulate a few times where a raised voice was put to good use.

[villagefarang]

I have to admit you have a colorful and entertaining imagination but I find it hard to take you seriously. The idea of billionaire Bill and dead guy Steve doing visa runs at Mae Sai is really bizarre.

It is so easy to play the game in Thailand I can’t understand why someone would beat their head against a brick wall trying to change the game. I can’t see any upside.

Raising your voice in Thailand? No wonder you have problems.