Thailand To Discuss Thaksin Extradition In London

[Charma]

Found the below story today. On first reading it appears that they don't know if he can be extradited or not!

BANGKOK (Reuters) - A team of Thai prosecutors flew to London on Friday to talk to British counterparts about extraditing ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra on corruption charges.

"We are not yet submitting, during this trip, any formal request for Britain to repatriate him," Nanthasak Poolsuk, head of the four-strong team of prosecutors, told Reuters.

"We will only consult British prosecutors on the legal procedures and evidence that a British court would require in agreeing to sending criminal suspects here for trial. We plan to discuss these details."

The main case against Thaksin, ousted in September last year and accused by coup plotters of presiding over rampant corruption, stems from his wife's purchase of land in central Bangkok at an auction in which other bidders dropped out.

An Asset Examination Committee set up after the coup ruled that Thaksin, the new owner of English Premier League football club Manchester City, broke anti-graft laws barring politicians in office from deals with state agencies.

Nanthasak said his discussions in London would be based on a 1911 bilateral criminal extradition treaty signed when Thailand was called Siam.

"Issues to be discussed include whether and which financial crimes and corruption offences are covered under the treaty, considering that laws of the two countries have evolved and changed since it was concluded," he said.

Full story here:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20071012/tpl...-43a8d4f_2.html

[chiang mai]

I can only conclude this is an exercise in saving face on the part of the Thai government and that doubtless they will announce some reason why they could not or should not go down the extradition route at some point in the future. I would guess that virtually anyone who knows even the tiniest bit about UK law will already know this is a time consuming process that will take many years to exhaust. Given that the request for extradition (if it is made) comes from a military junta and Thaksin was democratically elected, the words snowballs and hel_l spring to mind. In the meantime, nice little junket to the UK for the legal lads and lots of positive press for the current government.

[Mid]

the absence of trial by jury is glaring .

[rixalex]

I can only conclude this is an exercise in saving face on the part of the Thai government and that doubtless they will announce some reason why they could not or should not go down the extradition route at some point in the future. I would guess that virtually anyone who knows even the tiniest bit about UK law will already know this is a time consuming process that will take many years to exhaust. Given that the request for extradition (if it is made) comes from a military junta and Thaksin was democratically elected, the words snowballs and hel_l spring to mind. In the meantime, nice little junket to the UK for the legal lads and lots of positive press for the current government.

Indeed. We all know they are no more interested in bringing Thaksin to justice than they were in serving the Thai people's best interests when they ousted him in the first place.

Mr Tud - as always quick to leap in there with your anti-coup rhetoric, with the pro-Thaksin undertones.

In future though can you refrain from use of the pronoun "we" - you certainly don't speak for me.

[Sanpatong]

I think the time is right for Mr. Thaksin to really step things up a level and expose the current thugs in the ruling junta more.

[chiang mai]

This can only end badly for Thaksin. The junta will not be successful in extraditing Thaksin from the UK at least not any time soon. The junta will then be able to turn round and say, well we tried and we do indeed want him to stand trial here but we can't make him come and he doesn't want to come. That's going to leave Thaksin looking like a criminal in the eyes of the majority of Thai's. Question is, will his desire to save face under those circumstances be sufficiently strong to make him want to come back of his own accord? Truth is I reckon the junta wants the first part of all of this but really doesn't want him back under any circumstances.

[londonthai]

thaksin can move to any other country, if he only wants - and buy one, the smaller, somewhere in africa or even asia.

[Plus]

I don't think he can move around freely while fighting his extradition case. I think he's stuck in England for good.

What would be the impact of his refusal to appear before the court when he finally decides it's safe to return?

He won't score many brownies with the judges for sure, but what legal implications does it have. Has there been any precendent?

[slimdog]

I don't think he can move around freely while fighting his extradition case. I think he's stuck in England for good.

What would be the impact of his refusal to appear before the court when he finally decides it's safe to return?

He won't score many brownies with the judges for sure, but what legal implications does it have. Has there been any precendent?

Whilst fighting an extradition request, you are correct in saying that he will not be able to freely move around, that is because the second stage of an extradition process is the immediate arrest of the person in question. But for that to happen the Thai authorities have to get past the 1st stage, which is Administrative, where they have to provide ALL the documents which are required by law (Extradition Act of 2003), 2 of which are an existing Treaty of extradition which covers the alleged crime, and documentary proof that should the person have carried out the same crime in the U.K, then they would be arrested and charged. As both of these are non-existent, then there will be no extradition case, at least not for the Ratchada Land Case..

As for the implications for his refusal to appear before the court, the only two that spring to mind would be on the application for bail, and if sentenced, then the refusal could impact on the severity of the sentence.

Regarding the actual prosecution, then it is immaterial, as the prosecution will still have to prove that the person has commited a crime.

[londonthai]

unless they stitch him with a genocide of 2500+ drug suspects and a few thousands peasants murdered in the south - rather small chances Britain would like to extradite a guy with a few billion £.

and there is more of the rulers like thaksin now living in the UK

[nothingleftbutfaith]

I can only conclude this is an exercise in saving face on the part of the Thai government and that doubtless they will announce some reason why they could not or should not go down the extradition route at some point in the future. I would guess that virtually anyone who knows even the tiniest bit about UK law will already know this is a time consuming process that will take many years to exhaust. Given that the request for extradition (if it is made) comes from a military junta and Thaksin was democratically elected, the words snowballs and hel_l spring to mind. In the meantime, nice little junket to the UK for the legal lads and lots of positive press for the current government.

Hope they'll enjoy their 1st class flight to London. It's on the Thai taxpayer.

Utter bullshit once again from the local media.

[britmaveric]

Only way Mr T will be going back to thailand is when he becomes PM again.

[lazeeboy]

Found the below story today. On first reading it appears that they don't know if he can be extradited or not!

BANGKOK (Reuters) - A team of Thai prosecutors flew to London on Friday to talk to British counterparts about extraditing ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra on corruption charges.

"We are not yet submitting, during this trip, any formal request for Britain to repatriate him," Nanthasak Poolsuk, head of the four-strong team of prosecutors, told Reuters.

"We will only consult British prosecutors on the legal procedures and evidence that a British court would require in agreeing to sending criminal suspects here for trial. We plan to discuss these details."

The main case against Thaksin, ousted in September last year and accused by coup plotters of presiding over rampant corruption, stems from his wife's purchase of land in central Bangkok at an auction in which other bidders dropped out.

An Asset Examination Committee set up after the coup ruled that Thaksin, the new owner of English Premier League football club Manchester City, broke anti-graft laws barring politicians in office from deals with state agencies.

Nanthasak said his discussions in London would be based on a 1911 bilateral criminal extradition treaty signed when Thailand was called Siam.

"Issues to be discussed include whether and which financial crimes and corruption offences are covered under the treaty, considering that laws of the two countries have evolved and changed since it was concluded," he said.

Full story here:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20071012/tpl...-43a8d4f_2.html

not a complete waste of time ,london is lovely this time of year

[visionary]

What would happen if during the next National election the people were offered the choices of ;

a Voting for a candidate on the ballot or

b, requesting full pardon and restoration of the Thaksin government ?

[chevykanteve]

I can only conclude this is an exercise in saving face on the part of the Thai government and that doubtless they will announce some reason why they could not or should not go down the extradition route at some point in the future. I would guess that virtually anyone who knows even the tiniest bit about UK law will already know this is a time consuming process that will take many years to exhaust. Given that the request for extradition (if it is made) comes from a military junta and Thaksin was democratically elected, the words snowballs and hel_l spring to mind. In the meantime, nice little junket to the UK for the legal lads and lots of positive press for the current government.

Indeed. We all know they are no more interested in bringing Thaksin to justice than they were in serving the Thai people's best interests when they ousted him in the first place.

Mr Tud - as always quick to leap in there with your anti-coup rhetoric, with the pro-Thaksin undertones.

In future though can you refrain from use of the pronoun "we" - you certainly don't speak for me.

Spot on. "We" should indeed be changed to "most of us".

[Tony Clifton]

Only way Mr T will be going back to thailand is when he becomes PM again.

Or up in smoke in his favorite temple's chimney.

[sriracha john]

Additional information contained in excerpts from...

Associated Press:

Thaksin said he was aware of the development.

Thai Attorney-General Chaikasem Nitisiri said four Thai prosecutors are expected to be in England for nine days to discuss legal procedures — based on a 1911 extradition treaty between the two countries — but that they would not ask for extradition during this trip.

Guardian Unlimited (UK):

He [Thaksin] has since lived in high-profile exile in London with a £4.5m mansion in Weybridge, Surrey, and a rented flat in Park Lane owned by his friend and Fulham Football Club owner Mohammed al Fayed.

In a related development this week, the Thai anti-corruption body, the Assets Scrutiny Committee, said it would file criminal charges against Thaksin's 25-year-old daughter Pinthongta - a Manchester City Football Club Director and a student at the London School of Economics - over her refusal to answer questions about the family's share dealings when she unexpectedly turned up for a committee hearing in Bangkok.

A spokesman for his public relations firm, Bell Pottinger, said he was aware of the officials' visit but had no further comment.

If convicted of dishonesty, Thaksin will have to relinquish control of City under the Premier League's "fit-and-proper person test" - a move that would sorely disappoint City fans who have made it clear they are more interested in his wealth than his reputation.

With Sven-Goran Eriksson as manager and the team riding high in the Premier League, few are concerned about Human Rights Watch describing him as "a human-rights abuser of the worst kind"

The second charge involves allegedly illegal transactions in the tax-free sale of the family telecoms business, Shin Corp, to a Singapore state company early last year through an opaque off-shore structure. Legislation allowing foreign entities to own up to 49% of Thai telecoms companies was passed only four days before the sale.

Thaksin has retained the services of Clare Montgomery QC - the defender for General Pinochet in his extradition battle

Telegraph (UK):

Mr Thaksin currently faces two potential charges in Thailand.

Other investigations are also continuing.

[sriracha john]

the absence of trial by jury is glaring .

Every trial in Thailand is without a jury... same as Germany and India, among others.

[plachon]

Additional information contained in excerpts from...

Associated Press:

Thaksin said he was aware of the development.

Thai Attorney-General Chaikasem Nitisiri said four Thai prosecutors are expected to be in England for nine days to discuss legal procedures — based on a 1911 extradition treaty between the two countries — but that they would not ask for extradition during this trip.

Guardian Unlimited (UK):

He [Thaksin] has since lived in high-profile exile in London with a £4.5m mansion in Weybridge, Surrey, and a rented flat in Park Lane owned by his friend and Fulham Football Club owner Mohammed al Fayed.

In a related development this week, the Thai anti-corruption body, the Assets Scrutiny Committee, said it would file criminal charges against Thaksin's 25-year-old daughter Pinthongta - a Manchester City Football Club Director and a student at the London School of Economics - over her refusal to answer questions about the family's share dealings when she unexpectedly turned up for a committee hearing in Bangkok.

A spokesman for his public relations firm, Bell Pottinger, said he was aware of the officials' visit but had no further comment.

If convicted of dishonesty, Thaksin will have to relinquish control of City under the Premier League's "fit-and-proper person test" - a move that would sorely disappoint City fans who have made it clear they are more interested in his wealth than his reputation.

With Sven-Goran Eriksson as manager and the team riding high in the Premier League, few are concerned about Human Rights Watch describing him as "a human-rights abuser of the worst kind"

The second charge involves allegedly illegal transactions in the tax-free sale of the family telecoms business, Shin Corp, to a Singapore state company early last year through an opaque off-shore structure. Legislation allowing foreign entities to own up to 49% of Thai telecoms companies was passed only four days before the sale.

Thaksin has retained the services of Clare Montgomery QC - the defender for General Pinochet in his extradition battle

Telegraph (UK):

Mr Thaksin currently faces two potential charges in Thailand.

Other investigations are also continuing.

Good to see he picks a QC well versed in defending despots. Next we'll hear that Maggie Thatcher has decided to take the cuddly little moon-faced man under her wing and offered him sanctuary from those evil people who would have him face a court of law for his actions.

[johna]

Thailand has not enjoyed much success in its other high profile extradition cases.

Extradition proceedings against Bangkok Bank of Commerce adviser Rakesh Saxena have been in Canada's courts since 1996.

FinOne CEO Pin Chakkaphak won his London court case.

QUOTE

''Thaksin has retained the services of Clare Montgomery QC - the defender for General Pinochet in his extradition battle”.

Pinochet lost the extradition request from Spain and brought an end to the cloak of Sovereign Immunity

I hope these Thai lawyers enjoy their all expense paid trip to London

[John K]

I wonder when they will get around to the easy way of getting him back by requiring the plaintiff to be in court for proceedings. There must be close to 100 open cases where Thaksin is the plaintiff. Right now it is a bit like poking an animal in a cage with a long stick.

[rixalex]

I can only conclude this is an exercise in saving face on the part of the Thai government and that doubtless they will announce some reason why they could not or should not go down the extradition route at some point in the future. I would guess that virtually anyone who knows even the tiniest bit about UK law will already know this is a time consuming process that will take many years to exhaust. Given that the request for extradition (if it is made) comes from a military junta and Thaksin was democratically elected, the words snowballs and hel_l spring to mind. In the meantime, nice little junket to the UK for the legal lads and lots of positive press for the current government.

Indeed. We all know they are no more interested in bringing Thaksin to justice than they were in serving the Thai people's best interests when they ousted him in the first place.

Mr Tud - as always quick to leap in there with your anti-coup rhetoric, with the pro-Thaksin undertones.

In future though can you refrain from use of the pronoun "we" - you certainly don't speak for me.

Just for the record, I am most certainly anti-coup, but I am not pro-Thaksin by any standards of the imagination.

Sorry for making that mistake.

In the same way that Thaksin and his mates since the coup have suddenly become fierce vociferous supporters of democracy, despite having themselves eroded and perverted the democractic system for their own benefit whilst in power, some of those that are now screaming the loudest against the coup, were strangely quiet during those dark days under Thaksin. That's what makes me suspicious and suspect some hidden agenda for some of those in the anti-coup camp.

If you can honestly tell me you were just as outspoken against Thaksin's undermining of the democratic system then, as you are now of the junta, i'll believe you truly are just a pro-democracy supporter.

[rixalex]

I can only conclude this is an exercise in saving face on the part of the Thai government and that doubtless they will announce some reason why they could not or should not go down the extradition route at some point in the future. I would guess that virtually anyone who knows even the tiniest bit about UK law will already know this is a time consuming process that will take many years to exhaust. Given that the request for extradition (if it is made) comes from a military junta and Thaksin was democratically elected, the words snowballs and hel_l spring to mind. In the meantime, nice little junket to the UK for the legal lads and lots of positive press for the current government.

Indeed. We all know they are no more interested in bringing Thaksin to justice than they were in serving the Thai people's best interests when they ousted him in the first place.

Mr Tud - as always quick to leap in there with your anti-coup rhetoric, with the pro-Thaksin undertones.

In future though can you refrain from use of the pronoun "we" - you certainly don't speak for me.

Spot on. "We" should indeed be changed to "most of us".

To be on the safe side, and assuming you have no figures to back up your claim to be speaking on behalf of the majority, why not "in my humble opinion, most of us..."?

[Supaporn]

I can only conclude this is an exercise in saving face on the part of the Thai government and that doubtless they will announce some reason why they could not or should not go down the extradition route at some point in the future. I would guess that virtually anyone who knows even the tiniest bit about UK law will already know this is a time consuming process that will take many years to exhaust. Given that the request for extradition (if it is made) comes from a military junta and Thaksin was democratically elected, the words snowballs and hel_l spring to mind. In the meantime, nice little junket to the UK for the legal lads and lots of positive press for the current government.

Indeed. We all know they are no more interested in bringing Thaksin to justice than they were in serving the Thai people's best interests when they ousted him in the first place.

Mr Tud - as always quick to leap in there with your anti-coup rhetoric, with the pro-Thaksin undertones.

In future though can you refrain from use of the pronoun "we" - you certainly don't speak for me.

Spot on. "We" should indeed be changed to "most of us".

To be on the safe side, and assuming you have no figures to back up your claim to be speaking on behalf of the majority, why not "in my humble opinion, most of us..."?

Oh brother...... CHILDREN!

[hammered]

Found the below story today. On first reading it appears that they don't know if he can be extradited or not!

BANGKOK (Reuters) - A team of Thai prosecutors flew to London on Friday to talk to British counterparts about extraditing ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra on corruption charges.

"We are not yet submitting, during this trip, any formal request for Britain to repatriate him," Nanthasak Poolsuk, head of the four-strong team of prosecutors, told Reuters.

"We will only consult British prosecutors on the legal procedures and evidence that a British court would require in agreeing to sending criminal suspects here for trial. We plan to discuss these details."

The main case against Thaksin, ousted in September last year and accused by coup plotters of presiding over rampant corruption, stems from his wife's purchase of land in central Bangkok at an auction in which other bidders dropped out.

An Asset Examination Committee set up after the coup ruled that Thaksin, the new owner of English Premier League football club Manchester City, broke anti-graft laws barring politicians in office from deals with state agencies.

Nanthasak said his discussions in London would be based on a 1911 bilateral criminal extradition treaty signed when Thailand was called Siam.

"Issues to be discussed include whether and which financial crimes and corruption offences are covered under the treaty, considering that laws of the two countries have evolved and changed since it was concluded," he said.

Full story here:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20071012/tpl...-43a8d4f_2.html

The UK is a very very hard country from which to extradite people which is why the UK has always been a haven for many. Recently, because of this difficulty, Blair even changed the extradition law in respects of the US so they could extradite people and stick them in Guantanamo for no real reason, but I digress. It is unlikely that Brown will do the same for Thailand. it is unlikely Thaksin will be extradited from the UK although he may need to be careful about which other countires he tavels to. There is also the issue of do the Thai government really want to extradite him.

[gharknes]

They are only consulting for christ sake, and we have an election soon, what on earth are half you guys talking about

[Upcountry]

Well, in light of recent events, this is not much more than the pot calling the kettle black. What's to hope for? Politicians, in uniform or not, are never "pure white". As indicated above, this is all just politics as usual.

[John K]

I am having a hard time with some of the posters linking this criminal issue to present day politics in Thailand. It is not hard to look in the news around the world and see present and former politicians at every level in some sort of illegal activity. I simply see that as a person who made a mistake or is being run through the ringer under suspicion of guilt.

Many of the investigations into Thaksin started prior to the coup. It was not until after the coup that they got moved to the front burner.

The only political connection is being sure Thaksin is completely out of play. His arrogance is being heard again, but much of it is from the “worst of the worst” Thai politicians trying to ride the phantom coattails of Thaksin.

Admittedly it does annoy me that the “Thaksin” arrogance is still present, however I also can see that they have no original ideas of their own and no mater how that turns out it can’t be a good thing for Thailand if any of them return to power.

[Steely Dan]

It took Chile ages to get Pinochet extradited, but the real point is should the UK authorities agree to extradite Thaksin even if he was responsible for embezzling more than Suharto or murdering more than Pinochet? There is the small matter of a right to a fair trial - and that is not something you would expect to get from a junta who afterall subverted the will of the people, true so probably did Thaksin but the realpolitik is that the UK would never grant such a request to a non democratic government seeking to settle old scores. Now when is the election again?

[younghusband]

It took Chile ages to get Pinochet extradited, but the real point is should the UK authorities agree to extradite Thaksin even if he was responsible for embezzling more than Suharto or murdering more than Pinochet? There is the small matter of a right to a fair trial - and that is not something you would expect to get from a junta who afterall subverted the will of the people, true so probably did Thaksin but the realpolitik is that the UK would never grant such a request to a non democratic government seeking to settle old scores. Now when is the election again?

I'm sorry but I must correct you even though you reach the same conclusions as me.We must remind ourselves again and again, because of the lies being propagated by the junta and its friends, that Thaksin though an unsavoury character cannot be compared to Pinochet or Suharto.He neither murdered political prisoners nor embezzled on a vast scale.He can be criticised, even charged perhaps at some point, for altering the rules of the game so that his business interests had an unfair advantage.But he made his vast fortune quite legally.There are those who like to describe Thaksin as evil incarnate not so much for his alleged offences but because wittingly or unwittingly he changed the elite's comfortable status quo where the great mass of Thais are seen as a subordinated amorphous lumpenproletariat.Finally you seem not to understand the meaning of realpolitik:the UK will not hand over Thaksin because of a moral principle which is the opposite of realpolitik.