Would You Go To Iraq?

[plachon]

I guess that depends on if you agree with your statement that it is an ilegal occupation. I believe that sovereignty has been handed back to the Iraqis and the coalition forces are there at the request of the interim Iraqi government.

The Iraqi people will have the final say over how long the coalition forces remain after they get the opportunity to vote in free and fair elections, an opportunity which was never afforded to them under the dictatorship of Sadam.

As someone who supported the overthrow of a dictator responsible for the torture and murder of thousands aswell as numerous other human rights abuses I would have no moral quandry in accepting money to help rebuild this nation.

I respect your right to oppose the war in Iraq, however I feel you have no right to impose your morality on others.

Ah, a human rights defender who would accept nothing less than 500 K (I assume dollars and not baht) per year to go and deliver freedom to the Iraqi people. My hero.

Pity the majority of the Iraqi people disagree with your heroism, or the need to to have an occupying foreign army on their soil.

Ever wonder how much the Iraqi kids on the streets are being paid to defend their oil and homeland?

I assume too you'd also support Western military intervention in Burma too then?

[konangrit]

Yes, I would support western miltary intervention in Burma aswell as North Korea and Zimbabwe.

I'm not trying to suggest that I should be considered a hero for accepting $500K to work in Iraq, I was pointing out that as I supported the war then there is no moral reason for me not to.

I have seen no figures to back up your statement that the majority of Iraqis disagree with me. If you have a link, please post. If not then we will have to wait until Iraqi elections to see what the majority of Iraqis actually do think.

[Boon Mee]

If you was offered a chance of a contract in Iraq, that paid 150,000 U.S. Dollars for a years work, would you take it.

Take into account that you may be a target because you are a western contractor,

but for a chance to earn a lot of money TAX FREE, would you take that chance, even though it may cost you your life?

Would you risk all to secure your future?

Right now Halliburton is paying 1KUSD per day for experienced hands i.e. Cementers etc. That's w/food & acomadation too. Excellent money.

[plachon]

Yes, I would support western miltary intervention in Burma aswell as North Korea and Zimbabwe.

I'm not trying to suggest that I should be considered a hero for accepting $500K to work in Iraq, I was pointing out that as I supported the war then there is no moral reason for me not to.

I have seen no figures to back up your statement that the majority of Iraqis disagree with me. If you have a link, please post. If not then we will have to wait until Iraqi elections to see what the majority of Iraqis actually do think.

Well then Konangrit, you've lost the argument before you've started. In Zimbabwe, the leader believe it or not, is elected by the people, so in other words, what you're trying to say is you'd just like to go to war with any regime that doesn't quite fit in with the ideals of your own narrow world. Which of course, is full blooded colonialism, but what separates you from the likes of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, is they have the sense (not a lot, granted), to at least only go around invading countries with a chance of payback through oil revenues. But even that they've failed at dismally, as the price of a barrel of oil creeps towards 50$/barrel.

Do you know what the US govt's biggest fear in Iraq now is? Probably not, as I see you're incapable of reading anything more complicated than The Sun. It is FREE and FAIR elections. That's why they're doing their utmost to delay/scupper/influence them by putting their own people in the interim govt., which most Iraqis reject. The intifada on the streets and armed upsrising occurring right now, which makes you only want to go there for 500 K + is overwhelming evidence of this. If you were a "liberator", you should be able to walk in there to work for your normal wage with minimal protection, but you know that is not the case as well as I do.

[splitlid]

seems that wages have really gone up in Iraq.

few months ago,there were large amounts of white south africans going there for 10,000 US a month cos they cant get work at home..

surely, theres lots of unemployed..willing to go there for some money and not the extortionate rates being given here.

i cant see the chineese workers being on 30k a month!!

or the flippers.

think some people are being effected by the b/s factor.

anyway.if you offferd me 500k a year to go and work in iraq.i would. not problem.

scampy already has his bags packed.His going to write the next iraqi national anthem.

(dont mention scrotum stomaches though scamp)

[pnustedt]

If you were a "liberator", you should be able to walk in there to work for your normal wage with minimal protection, but you know that is not the case as well as I do.

I don't think anyone is talking about going over to Iraq to "liberate" the country - but some of us do have occupations which could be useful to the Iraqi people and we need to earn a living.

If I were to go to Iraq to work (which I have no intention of doing) in my occupation I would probably be working for an Iraqi employer, not a foreign company or government and only the Iraqi people (and the employer and myself) would benefit.

[konangrit]

Yes, I would support western miltary intervention in Burma aswell as North Korea and Zimbabwe.

I'm not trying to suggest that I should be considered a hero for accepting $500K to work in Iraq, I was pointing out that as I supported the war then there is no moral reason for me not to.

I have seen no figures to back up your statement that the majority of Iraqis disagree with me. If you have a link, please post. If not then we will have to wait until Iraqi elections to see what the majority of Iraqis actually do think.

Well then Konangrit, you've lost the argument before you've started. In Zimbabwe, the leader believe it or not, is elected by the people, so in other words, what you're trying to say is you'd just like to go to war with any regime that doesn't quite fit in with the ideals of your own narrow world. Which of course, is full blooded colonialism, but what separates you from the likes of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, is they have the sense (not a lot, granted), to at least only go around invading countries with a chance of payback through oil revenues. But even that they've failed at dismally, as the price of a barrel of oil creeps towards 50$/barrel.

Do you know what the US govt's biggest fear in Iraq now is? Probably not, as I see you're incapable of reading anything more complicated than The Sun. It is FREE and FAIR elections. That's why they're doing their utmost to delay/scupper/influence them by putting their own people in the interim govt., which most Iraqis reject. The intifada on the streets and armed upsrising occurring right now, which makes you only want to go there for 500 K + is overwhelming evidence of this. If you were a "liberator", you should be able to walk in there to work for your normal wage with minimal protection, but you know that is not the case as well as I do.

Iraq also had elections when Sadam was in power. They were not free and fair and neither are elections in Zimbabwe. Mugabe ensures he gets voted in under conditions of widespread intimidation and election fraud.

You seem to assume that I read tabloid newspapers as my opinions differ from yours. I actually read the Times when I'm in England, but I don't see why that is important, I form my own opinions and do not allow my opinions to be dictated to me by Rupert Murdoch.

I could easily step down to your level and accuse you of being incapable of reading anything more complicated than the Mirror, but I will give you some credit and assume you read the Guardian. If I am correct then it would seem that you are only interested in articles that back up your views. Maybe you should take a look at the following link.

Guardian Zimbabwe elections article

Obviously the US government have tried their best to install an interim government which is as friendly as possible towards the coalition. It would be naive to think otherwise. The Iraqi people will have the opportunity to change this if they desire once elections are held.

I agree that the aftermath of the war in Iraq was handled badly and the current situation could have been largely avoided, but I am optomistic that the security situation will improve. I'm sure you will hope this to be the case too.

I did not realise I was making an argument to lose, simply stating my point of view. I respect that your views are different, but this basically comes down to individual morals and what one believes to be right or wrong. It is impossible to say that one point of view is more valid than the other.

[Up2U]

Good Lord, Konangrit, I agree with every word you've just said. I must be growing old.

Personally, my CV would be ideal for working in Iraq, having had 25 years in Libya / Saudi / Iran / UAE, plus stints around SE Asia. All in the construction / oil & gas / petrochem industries as a senior management nerd. Project manager on a large hospital, fertilizer factory, etc.

And if I was not now working in Thailand, with good future prospects in other SE Asia locations, I would go to Iraq. I was in Iran during the revolution. I was in Libya during the Reagan-Thatcher terror bombing. I was in Saudi during the Grand Mosque attempted takeover. I know about collateral damage and that sh1t happens. But one cannot worry about these things. Just take sensible precautions. And not dabble in local politics - whatever your opinion.

[thaihome]

I am amazed at the ignorance of the people on what is actually going on in Iraq. But, I guess they are victims of the mass media philosophy that a burning house is news, but the building of a new one is not.

The war is over. What I going on now is a terror campaign designed to overshadow the fact that Iraq is being rebuilt and the people of Iraq are deeply involved in doing that. The western mass media is playing right into these people hands.

I bet not one of you has seen this report issued by USAID:

A Year in Iraq

Take a look at this site and see what is really going on.

My company has a several hundred people in Iraq (and neighbouring countries) supporting the rebuilding effort. Not one of them as been killed or injured, and every one of them is proud of the work they are doing. They are also much appreciated by the Iraqi people they work with.

Oh, and they are on a 45% uplift from base salary, 8 weeks on site, 2 weeks off with paid (economy class) tickets to home. And, if US Citizens, they still pay US taxes.

TH

[IamMaiC]

You Guys I been to Iraq The media shows only the fighting all the time Yeah you go to those areas that the fighting is in sure you might get shot. I went with the army national guard and the iraqi people are doing what it takes to make their country better. They want the US in there, If we left the country would go to I don't know.

Some security people are making a 1,000 dollars a day. A DAY!!!!! I talked to one guy and he said they shoot at me I'm giving it (Money)right back to them. he was joking. I was on the bordor of Saudi arabia and they have thai people working over there. If the money is good and TAX FREE sure but when you come back to the states you better declare it on Tax forms.

I'd do it again and whatever reasons we went into Iraq We Had Cause anyway!!!!! He shot at fighter jets during the Ninetys and wanted to go back into kuwait. and never listened to the UN and threw inspectors out. all normal routes of trying to get him out were exhuasted in my opinion and i'm getting off the thread here sorry

[IamMaiC]

Yes, I would support western miltary intervention in Burma aswell as North Korea and Zimbabwe.

You think the US is done?? Afghanistan and Iraq are just the beginning Sorry forgot to add the phillipines also.

[Axel]

Seems this is getting political and usually I would not comment on such an issue.

Let me put it that way. Inside the Iraq, people with experience in various fields are needed. The money paid is 'high' in consideration of risks involved.

If one feels the income is it worth, why not. I have not been there but believe not all areas are as hot as shown on TV. (Something like TV showing heavy flooding in the south of Thailand and your relatives call you to ask if you are save in BKK)

Regardless of this, if the money is worthwhile or you need it, take it and be aware you might lose your a** or head.

[TRIPxCORE]

Just in case anyone is interested:

USAID Mission in Iraq - Employment Opportunities

Announcing open positions for five

CHAUFFEURS

Major Duties and Responsibilities:

USAID/Iraq is recruiting five qualified individuals for the vacancy of Chauffeur, who will be employed in the USAID Motor Pool Baghdad. The Chauffeur duties comprise the following: operates passenger vehicles dispatched through Motor Pool to deliver passengers and materials. Also delivers documents and invitations as requested. Keeps vehicle clean and in serviceable condition all day long. Maintains daily vehicle log in a complete and thorough manner, noting each segment of driving and any irregularities in the vehicles operation

Requirements:

Education: Completion of secondary school is required.

Experience: Three years chauffeur experience is required. Normally at least one year should have been with the U.S. Government.

Language: Level III English [Good Working Knowledge] is required so that requests can be understood as well as being able to communicate clearly to clients concerning vehicle arrangements. Fluent Arabic is required.

Knowledge: Must be knowledgeable of local traffic laws, city streets and traffic patterns, locations of major buildings, organizations, diplomatic missions, and government offices, shortest and safest routes to destinations and basic vehicle maintenance procedures.

Skills and Abilities: Ability to deliver passengers/materials expeditiously and safely. Must have local driver's license appropriate to vehicles operated. Ability to exercise tact and diplomacy in carrying out responsibilities.

Additional Selection Criteria

1. Applicants already on file will be considered;

2. Training level applicants will be considered;

3. Management will consider hiring grade that will depend on the qualifications of the incumbent.

To Apply for This Solicitation no. 04-017

Candidates interested in this position should submit the following documents enclosed with a cover letter:

1. A current resume or curriculum vitae providing a daytime telephone number;

2. Copies of any other documentation (e.g. essays, certificates, awards, and copies of degrees earned) that address the minimum requirements of the position as listed above; and

3. Provide USAID with at least three references quoting their telephone numbers.

Note: DO NOT enclose original documents to your application, as they will not be returned.

[meemiathai]

Yes, I would support western miltary intervention in Burma aswell as North Korea and Zimbabwe.

I'm not trying to suggest that I should be considered a hero for accepting $500K to work in Iraq, I was pointing out that as I supported the war then there is no moral reason for me not to.

I have seen no figures to back up your statement that the majority of Iraqis disagree with me. If you have a link, please post. If not then we will have to wait until Iraqi elections to see what the majority of Iraqis actually do think.

Well then Konangrit, you've lost the argument before you've started. In Zimbabwe, the leader believe it or not, is elected by the people,

Yes, you are VERY right, Plachon. And Saddam believe it or not got 100% of the votes in his election!

And for someone who is incapable of understanding this thread and say

If you were a "liberator", you should be able to walk in there to work for your normal wage with minimal protection

, I wouldn't be expecting you to understand the risks of allowing dictatorships in this modern world!

Sorry for being off topic. Couldn't help it.

[IamMaiC]

Ya and probably will get a 1,000 dollars a day for driving

[The Gentleman Scamp]

What, risk my life for Bush? No, not in a million years.

[meemiathai]

Well if he becomes that risky, you can always get rid of him on election day?

[rainman]

What, risk my life for Bush? No, not in a million years.

George W. Bush, in an airport lobby, noticed a man in a long flowing white robe with a long flowing white beard and flowing white hair. The man had a staff in one hand and some stone tablets under the other arm.

George W. approached the man and inquired, "Aren't you Moses."

The man ignored George W. and stared at the ceiling.

George W. positioned himself more directly in the man's view and asked again, "Aren't you Moses?"

The man continued to peruse the ceiling.

George W. tugged at the man's sleeve and asked once again, "Aren't you Moses?"

The man finally responded in an irritated voice, "Yes I am."

George W. asked him why he was so uppity.

Moses replied, "The last time I spoke to a Bush I had to spend forty years in the desert!"

[Boon Mee]

Ha Ha...

[plachon]

Iraq also had elections when Sadam was in power. They were not free and fair and neither are elections in Zimbabwe. Mugabe ensures he gets voted in under conditions of widespread intimidation and election fraud.

You seem to assume that I read tabloid newspapers as my opinions differ from yours. I actually read the Times when I'm in England, but I don't see why that is important, I form my own opinions and do not allow my opinions to be dictated to me by Rupert Murdoch.

I could easily step down to your level and accuse you of being incapable of reading anything more complicated than the Mirror, but I will give you some credit and assume you read the Guardian. If I am correct then it would seem that you are only interested in articles that back up your views. Maybe you should take a look at the following link.

Guardian Zimbabwe elections article

Obviously the US government have tried their best to install an interim government which is as friendly as possible towards the coalition. It would be naive to think otherwise. The Iraqi people will have the opportunity to change this if they desire once elections are held.

I agree that the aftermath of the war in Iraq was handled badly and the current situation could have been largely avoided, but I am optomistic that the security situation will improve. I'm sure you will hope this to be the case too.

I did not realise I was making an argument to lose, simply stating my point of view. I respect that your views are different, but this basically comes down to individual morals and what one believes to be right or wrong. It is impossible to say that one point of view is more valid than the other.

Look, election fraud and intimidation occurs in at least half the world's nations, if they allow elections at all. It's not that unusual and fraud was a part of Bush's victory in Florida 4 years ago, if many pundits are to be believed. But that's not an excuse for other countries, often with no superior moral authority of their own to claim, to go around invading them because the leaders don't fit Western democratic ideals. The world would be at World War right now (and I don't mean a low level "War against Terrorism" excuse for military adventurism we see now from the US-Uk coalition), if we followed that path to self-destruction.

So as much as you and I find Mugabe and Saddam, etc. rather unpleasant pieces of work, they are/were not threatening world peace and stability (much to the embarassment of Bush and Blair in desperately trying to prove otherwise with their phantom WMDs). So what we've got left with is a war started under false presumptions and an illegal occupation by foreign troops of a sovereign nation. The Iraqi people, if left to have a truly free and fair national elections will vote to have the aggressors removed from their soil, but at the moment the mess that is Iraq is sliding towards anarchy and civil war, a DIRECT result of the mismanagment and inability of the AXIS of STUPIDITY, whom you seem to support and even desire go further in suggesting more invasions.

That you claim to read the Times does not surprise me, which editorially varies little from the Sun. Both right wing gung-ho rags, but yes, I accept that our views and newspaper tastes are diametrically opposed, and we our both entitled to have them. However, to suggest it is morally defendable to take the kind of wages bandied about on this thread from a country in Iraq's situation is to me a joke, and I would go further in suggesting that it is this myopic "To the victor the spoils" mentality that is in itself further fuelling the fires of resentment amongst the local populace in Iraq and thus prolonging the conflict that is growing daily.

[konangrit]

A far more thoughtful reply.

I feel no need to comment further on this matter, We shall agree to disagree.

That you claim to read the Times does not surprise me, which editorially varies little from the Sun. Both right wing gung-ho rags

Have you read the Telegraph recently?

[Boon Mee]

What, risk my life for Bush? No, not in a million years.

How do you reckon you'd be risking your life for Dubya? By working in Iraq you're helping re-build the country, promoting democracy and making a few bucks as well.

[Up2U]

What, risk my life for Bush?  No, not in a million years.

George W. Bush, in an airport lobby, noticed a man in a long flowing white robe with a long flowing white beard and flowing white hair. The man had a staff in one hand and some stone tablets under the other arm.

George W. approached the man and inquired, "Aren't you Moses."

The man ignored George W. and stared at the ceiling.

George W. positioned himself more directly in the man's view and asked again, "Aren't you Moses?"

The man continued to peruse the ceiling.

George W. tugged at the man's sleeve and asked once again, "Aren't you Moses?"

The man finally responded in an irritated voice, "Yes I am."

George W. asked him why he was so uppity.

Moses replied, "The last time I spoke to a Bush I had to spend forty years in the desert!"

And if he'd turned right instead of left when leaving the Sinai, the Jews would have had the oil and the arabs the oranges.

So where would the world be then - certainly different.

[IamMaiC]

This got political real fast

[IamMaiC]

What, risk my life for Bush?  No, not in a million years.

How do you reckon you'd be risking your life for Dubya? By working in Iraq you're helping re-build the country, promoting democracy and making a few bucks as well.

President Bush and I say President Bush out of respect, ordered the US Military into iraq, I went also with the army national guard Now i'm back home some guys in my unit want to go back!!! and this is not under orders from anyone.

Why Because a good thing was done in iraq believe it or not!!!! The people have their freedom How would you feel if you lived under someone like Saddam Insane. Some people have back bone and well some do not

[britmaveric]

Bear Pit has reared its ugly head again in defenseless ThaiVisa!

[Boon Mee]

Naw...we're just talking about Backbone now, not politics. Some got it, some don't and if the shoe fits...deal w/it!

[Pepe']

Theoretically I would go. Having done a tour of Vietnam though I'm afraid we are fighting a war that really is not being fought to be won.

Howver, "All radical muslim terrorists must die." I would like to "get a piece of that."

[britmaveric]

Hmmm yeah send Thaskin to deal with Iraq IMO. Mosques would be on fire and no safe place for those nutters. One thing I can credit Thaskin is his policy on dealing with those lot.

[Spee]

as much as you and I find Mugabe and Saddam, etc. rather unpleasant pieces of work, they are/were not threatening world peace and stability

How d'ya figure that?

Both were/are heads of state in two of the most unstable regions of the world, and did and are doing nothing but aggravate the situation during their reigns.

During his 25 years of rule, Hussein attacked or invaded every bordering country. He demonstrated a clear intent to destablize if not overthrow and takeover at least two of those countries (Iran and Kuwait). His country was an aggressor nation that initiated open warfare during more than 50% of the years of his reign. That whole business with ethic genocide with the Kurds and Caldeans just strengthens the argument.

Mugabe is no different. He slaughters and deprives innocent people who have no fault other than belong to a different tribe. Rather than promote peace and equality, he discriminates on the basis of ethnic origin and lines his pockets in the process.

Can you demonstrate any point in history where an essentially tribal dictatorship like these has moved the world closer to peace and stability?