Real Freedom

[tijnebijn]

It will not work when the greedy stay greedy , and the needy stay needy .

I am pretty sure that if or when developing countries have a fairer treatment from the developed ,

a chance to get developed , there is not much need for them to immigrate to lets say the US.

Its just how you look at the situation .

Of course one could interpret the OP's writing utopia , but is it really ?

We all live on the same planet right ? Do we treat each other as equals ?

Much to say about that I guess .

like I said before , to come to any resolution or world peace , it will need a catastrophic event .

If Al Gore's point is true , the world with its selfish way to endure itself with richness , will have big problems

in the way we live now .

Has anyone got any idea if such happening will occur , I guess nature will give us an opportunity to reunite.

After all our instinct is to survive in the first place . I am not so sure if I would mind such a happening to come , actually.

(wish it would't had to come that far) It is written in the word nature itself , but we influenced it so much to let it naturally occur , is that fair ?

Not that I agree fully , personally , with every assumption made in this post , but hey I do hope for a better world .

[esbobes]

It is like asking if it would be nice to see every starving person on earth has his own Rolls Royce.

I think rolls of bread rather than Rolls Royce

Maybe a Rolls Royce is not needed . But everyone in the world over 14 should get a new car every 4 years from the New World Order. And than everyone will have a good job.

The car should be better than a Honda Civic.

As you can see I love people to be rich and have.

[ColPyat]

Without passports you have no border control so all those Mexicans will flood into the USA and cause anarchy and chaos. All those thousands sitting in France would become millions waiting to flood into the UK. The UK then would not be the country we love to love and hate. The UK would sink under the weight of all those foreigners.

People born in countries that have wealth would no longer have the incentive to create more wealth.

All those terrorists would be able to come and go and plant bombs etc as they please.

I feel it would be a backward step to abolish passports and border controls. The world is a different place to what it was 150 years ago.

US foreign involvement may then stop causing anarchy and chaos in other regions of the planet. Yes, let them all in please!

The UK only became the UK because of countless waves of migration, the earlies known ones were the Kelts, the Romans, then the Germanic tribes, the Normans, etc. The original inhabitants have been completely assimilated by the time of the Germanic tribes migrating to the UK.

And without the latest waves of migration the UK would still be known for having the lousiest food on the planet, and the ugliest women.

Be thankful for migration, it refreshes your gene pool, and given some of the Pattaya monkeys - seems to be rather necessary.

[esbobes]

It will not work when the greedy stay greedy , and the needy stay needy .

I am pretty sure that if or when developing countries have a fairer treatment from the developed ,

a chance to get developed , there is not much need for them to immigrate to lets say the US.

Its just how you look at the situation .

Of course one could interpret the OP's writing utopia , but is it really ?

We all live on the same planet right ? Do we treat each other as equals ?

Much to say about that I guess .

like I said before , to come to any resolution or world peace , it will need a catastrophic event .

If Al Gore's point is true , the world with its selfish way to endure itself with richness , will have big problems

in the way we live now .

Has anyone got any idea if such happening will occur , I guess nature will give us an opportunity to reunite.

After all our instinct is to survive in the first place . I am not so sure if I would mind such a happening to come , actually.

(wish it would't had to come that far) It is written in the word nature itself , but we influenced it so much to let it naturally occur , is that fair ?

Not that I agree fully , personally , with every assumption made in this post , but hey I do hope for a better world .

Well said I am glad Thai Visa has members like you.

[meemiathai]

Without passports you have no border control so all those Mexicans will flood into the USA and cause anarchy and chaos. All those thousands sitting in France would become millions waiting to flood into the UK. The UK then would not be the country we love to love and hate. The UK would sink under the weight of all those foreigners.

People born in countries that have wealth would no longer have the incentive to create more wealth.

All those terrorists would be able to come and go and plant bombs etc as they please.

I feel it would be a backward step to abolish passports and border controls. The world is a different place to what it was 150 years ago.

If as you say the UK was invaded buy so many what work would there be for them so why would they stay? I think the word would soon get out and no one would go there in fact many would leave. What I am trying to say like water it will find it's own level.

You are right about water finding its own level which is exactly what the world has come to now. It has found its own way already.

Edited October 13, 2007 by meemiathai

[wadsy]

Can you accept if everyone has a key to your house?

Why should I want to give everyone the key to my house? Try to read the topic again as I think you may be replying to somthing else.

OK, make it this way. Would you mind not locking the doors of your house so anyone could walk in as they like?

Key = Passport

The average Isaan people do this but I doubt Bill Gates would like this idea.

Yes then I would be happy to give up my passport and compete on a level playing field because I truly think it would be a great step forward for mankind.

You really are a dreamer. Your philosophy doesnt account for the dictators, despots, and power hungry individuals (and states for that matter) that will ALWAYS strive for dominance and control. As one poster said, you really should get out more. Utopia and world peace is an impossible dream, it doesn't matter how much you wish for it. Here was I too thinking that your ilk also disappeared with the fuzzy, warm, 'love thy enemy', flower power 60's crowd! As much as you don't like to admit it and want the utopian dream, it aint gonna happen buddy, Charles Darwin had it right.

[intumult]

Without passports you have no border control so all those Mexicans will flood into the USA and cause anarchy and chaos. All those thousands sitting in France would become millions waiting to flood into the UK. The UK then would not be the country we love to love and hate. The UK would sink under the weight of all those foreigners.

People born in countries that have wealth would no longer have the incentive to create more wealth.

All those terrorists would be able to come and go and plant bombs etc as they please.

I feel it would be a backward step to abolish passports and border controls. The world is a different place to what it was 150 years ago.

If as you say the UK was invaded buy so many what work would there be for them so why would they stay? I think the word would soon get out and no one would go there in fact many would leave. What I am trying to say like water it will find it's own level.

It does not stop them queuing up now to get into this country illegally. Africans, Asians, East Europeans and so many others all wanting to live here. The country is already creaking and groaning under the weight. I am all for allowing a reasonable level of people in but the Uk would end up having so few British people in it. Our parents fought for freedom as did our grandparents and great grandparents.

No passports? That will help stop war? Never.

Hitler decided he wanted to conquer the world. We fought against Napolean in the hundred years war. There were no passports in those days.

What about Genghis Kahn?

Did lack of passports stop the American Indians being almost wiped off the face of the earth?

What about the Aborigines in Australia?

Then we have modern day Islamic terrorists who would happily wipe out Christians and Buddhists the world over because we do not conform to their way of thinking. Shall we let them all intp our countries at will?

A world government??? Hahahahahahahah.

We have the UN and other bodies doing their level best to keep a lid on what is happening now but no-one can agree on a solution even for somewhere like Burma.

World Organisations that help children and the starving cannot do more than scratch the surface.

The E.U. is farcical in many ways. The ideal is good but in practice it does not work. The old USSR failed too. There is too much friction from too many factions.

Get a life, man.

[endure]

Without passports you have no border control so all those Mexicans will flood into the USA and cause anarchy and chaos. All those thousands sitting in France would become millions waiting to flood into the UK. The UK then would not be the country we love to love and hate. The UK would sink under the weight of all those foreigners.

People born in countries that have wealth would no longer have the incentive to create more wealth.

All those terrorists would be able to come and go and plant bombs etc as they please.

I feel it would be a backward step to abolish passports and border controls. The world is a different place to what it was 150 years ago.

If as you say the UK was invaded buy so many what work would there be for them so why would they stay? I think the word would soon get out and no one would go there in fact many would leave. What I am trying to say like water it will find it's own level.

It does not stop them queuing up now to get into this country illegally. Africans, Asians, East Europeans and so many others all wanting to live here. The country is already creaking and groaning under the weight. I am all for allowing a reasonable level of people in but the Uk would end up having so few British people in it. Our parents fought for freedom as did our grandparents and great grandparents.

No passports? That will help stop war? Never.

Hitler decided he wanted to conquer the world. We fought against Napolean in the hundred years war. There were no passports in those days.

We fought the hundred years war 300 years before Napoleon was born.

[ColPyat]

:D

[cdnvic]

We fought against Napolean in the hundred years war. There were no passports in those days.

We fought the hundred years war 300 years before Napoleon was born.

Another "expert" falls to earth.

Napoleon must have been really getting on when he was exiled after a 114 year struggle against him.

Edited October 13, 2007 by cdnvic

[Scott]

So, do whom do I pay taxes? Where do I get medical care? Oh, and do I have to pay for all the children born to Muslims and Catholics who don't believe in Birth control? Will the UN take care of all of this?

I think there was a time when they didn't have passports--it was the era of colonization. Do you think human nature has changed? Do you think it won't be the less-than-honorable people who would take advantage of others.

Lovely idea and I agree in the abstract.

[nidge]

Spare a thought for the real losers if this should happen. I hear all the time of asian girls marrying sad lonely men just so they can get a passport. Where are these men going to find wives if there are no passports?

[endure]

Spare a thought for the real losers if this should happen. I hear all the time of asian girls marrying sad lonely men just so they can get a passport. Where are these men going to find wives if there are no passports?

[cdnvic]

Spare a thought for the real losers if this should happen. I hear all the time of asian girls marrying sad lonely men just so they can get a passport. Where are these men going to find wives if there are no passports?

They aren't quite as cuddly, but they come with an on/off switch

[howtoescape]

Ive got to pay 72 quid for a new passport as my pictures loose, and there is still 6 years left on it.

I vote for free passports.

I read Howard Marks book "Mr. Nice" and according to him it is possible to travel without a passport but it is extremely difficult.

Edited October 13, 2007 by howtoescape

[tuky]

Spare a thought for the real losers if this should happen. I hear all the time of asian girls marrying sad lonely men just so they can get a passport. Where are these men going to find wives if there are no passports?

Nice one nidge

[thailandjames]

I think, sometime in the future, we are quite likely to have free travel, without borders. Looking at history, the human condition has improved. There are more people, living longer, better educated than ever before. If we start developing intelligently designed curriculae and universal education, the potential for something which seems utopian to us now is possible, even likely within a few generations. Look at the difference in technology, for example, over the last century and a half.

We have many problems, there is no doubt. People have power that are in no way fit to handle it in a responsable manner. We spend far more money making war than it would take to feed everybody on earth, and allow for universal medical care.

A hundred years ago however, world travel was an extremely dicey endeavor. Malaria before the advent of DDT was in many places virtually guaranteed. Typhoid and yellow fever were common, life expectancies were very low, infant mortality very high.

Humans have come a long way, and I think if you look at the trends of history there is reason to be optimistic.

Travel will improve over time. Most other things will too. -just an ageing never say die flower child...

[a99az]

Without passports you have no border control so all those Mexicans will flood into the USA and cause anarchy and chaos. All those thousands sitting in France would become millions waiting to flood into the UK. The UK then would not be the country we love to love and hate. The UK would sink under the weight of all those foreigners.

People born in countries that have wealth would no longer have the incentive to create more wealth.

All those terrorists would be able to come and go and plant bombs etc as they please.

I feel it would be a backward step to abolish passports and border controls. The world is a different place to what it was 150 years ago.

If as you say the UK was invaded buy so many what work would there be for them so why would they stay? I think the word would soon get out and no one would go there in fact many would leave. What I am trying to say like water it will find it's own level.

It does not stop them queuing up now to get into this country illegally. Africans, Asians, East Europeans and so many others all wanting to live here. The country is already creaking and groaning under the weight. I am all for allowing a reasonable level of people in but the Uk would end up having so few British people in it. Our parents fought for freedom as did our grandparents and great grandparents.

No passports? That will help stop war? Never.

Hitler decided he wanted to conquer the world. We fought against Napolean in the hundred years war. There were no passports in those days.

What about Genghis Kahn?

Did lack of passports stop the American Indians being almost wiped off the face of the earth?

What about the Aborigines in Australia?

Then we have modern day Islamic terrorists who would happily wipe out Christians and Buddhists the world over because we do not conform to their way of thinking. Shall we let them all intp our countries at will?

A world government??? Hahahahahahahah.

We have the UN and other bodies doing their level best to keep a lid on what is happening now but no-one can agree on a solution even for somewhere like Burma.

World Organisations that help children and the starving cannot do more than scratch the surface.

The E.U. is farcical in many ways. The ideal is good but in practice it does not work. The old USSR failed too. There is too much friction from too many factions.

Get a life, man.

I think you should re read my pice you will find that this is about freedom the same freedom ''Our parents fought for freedom as did our grandparents and great grandparents''. that you talk of. Again I never have talked about a world goverment, so please read again and try to see the big pick. Graham Nash

[a99az]

Spare a thought for the real losers if this should happen. I hear all the time of asian girls marrying sad lonely men just so they can get a passport. Where are these men going to find wives if there are no passports?

Thank god someone gets the point. 10 out of 10.

[a99az]

So, do whom do I pay taxes? Where do I get medical care? Oh, and do I have to pay for all the children born to Muslims and Catholics who don't believe in Birth control? Will the UN take care of all of this?

I think there was a time when they didn't have passports--it was the era of colonization. Do you think human nature has changed? Do you think it won't be the less-than-honorable people who would take advantage of others.

Lovely idea and I agree in the abstract.

Simple: Render Unto Caesar and the same could be said for the rest. I am glad you like the idea, Graham Nash

[Suszzy]

Everyone should be able to travel freely to any place they wish to go to and be able to stay for as long as they want and compete in the market place for work.

i love the word "freedom"

nice idea but i don't think it will happen though!

but keep your hope up anyway.

[Captain Chaos]

If you wish to reply to my articie please read it first.

Many thanks Graham Nash

If you wish to put your article up on a public forum then don't be surprised if people exercise their right to post a response - disagreeing with you doesn't mean they haven't read it. That's their "freedom", right?

Edited October 14, 2007 by Captain Chaos

[Captain Chaos]

So, do whom do I pay taxes? Where do I get medical care? Oh, and do I have to pay for all the children born to Muslims and Catholics who don't believe in Birth control? Will the UN take care of all of this?

I think there was a time when they didn't have passports--it was the era of colonization. Do you think human nature has changed? Do you think it won't be the less-than-honorable people who would take advantage of others.

Lovely idea and I agree in the abstract.

Simple: Render Unto Caesar and the same could be said for the rest. I am glad you like the idea, Graham Nash

Render unto Caesar Sorry, what are you on about?

[GuestHouse]

After spending two days in Pattaya last week and taking a look at what is staggering around the place, drunk, inapropriately dressed, behaviour and language to suit - I'm of the opinion there is too much freedom to travel and we'd most of us be a lot better off if there were minimum standards of behaviour to be met to actually get a passport.

[Scott]

GH be nice, otherwise the only two people who would be here is you and me--and I am not sure about you!

[britmaveric]

After spending two days in Pattaya last week and taking a look at what is staggering around the place, drunk, inapropriately dressed, behaviour and language to suit - I'm of the opinion there is too much freedom to travel and we'd most of us be a lot better off if there were minimum standards of behaviour to be met to actually get a passport.

I totally agree we should revoke your passport Guesthouse and not allow u to travel!!!!

As for the OP utopian drivel!!!

Edited October 14, 2007 by britmaveric

[cdnvic]

After spending two days in Pattaya last week and taking a look at what is staggering around the place, drunk, inapropriately dressed, behaviour and language to suit

Were the men just as bad?

[GuestHouse]

Some of the men were worse.

GH be nice, otherwise the only two people who would be here is you and me--and I am not sure about you!

Indeed, but really 'egalitarianism'asside, there are people who ought not to be allowed abroad.

[gzu88bv]

Seems that Colpyat is from Switzerland!

No - fortunately not!

If i would be, i guess i would be there right now trying to fight Blocher's SVP fascists.

ColPyat, as a Swiss I just could not resist. Who told you that man is a fascist?

I am very proud to be Swiss and I love my homeland very much and I can always return and stay there if I wish to do so.

Have a good day.

[a99az]

Some of the men were worse.

GH be nice, otherwise the only two people who would be here is you and me--and I am not sure about you!

Indeed, but really 'egalitarianism'asside, there are people who ought not to be allowed abroad.

Egalitarianism asside !! I sometimes want to agree with you but it flys in the face of freedom. I would just say that we should all abide by the law of the land we are in or suffer the consequence.