What Do You Consider When Buying A Condo In Thailand

[Khun Bob]

I'm looking to by a condo in the lower price range in the next 6-9 months. I will be making a list of the factors I need to consider so that I may be able to :

* Understand what is significant, what is not

* Know what to watch out for - what traps could I potentially be caught in

* Understand how factors may change over the years and how to identify this early

* Know if I am being given the right prices and not paying over the odds for all aspects

* Cover elements like location, facilities, services, legalities, legal service providers, resale, rental, property management, any other significant elements ?

Many people on TV must have been through this and by using the search function much useful information will be brought up. I will be doing that and posting back on here. What would be nice is if anyone has recently een through the condo purchase process and has performed a pre-assessment or due-diligence for the purchase and longer term living or use of the condo that they may share their finding on here.

Thanks in advance

[pkrv]

I'm looking to by a condo in the lower price range in the next 6-9 months. I will be making a list of the factors I need to consider so that I may be able to :

* Understand what is significant, what is not

* Know what to watch out for - what traps could I potentially be caught in

* Understand how factors may change over the years and how to identify this early

* Know if I am being given the right prices and not paying over the odds for all aspects

* Cover elements like location, facilities, services, legalities, legal service providers, resale, rental, property management, any other significant elements ?

Many people on TV must have been through this and by using the search function much useful information will be brought up. I will be doing that and posting back on here. What would be nice is if anyone has recently een through the condo purchase process and has performed a pre-assessment or due-diligence for the purchase and longer term living or use of the condo that they may share their finding on here.

Thanks in advance

This is such a difficult topic - I am going through the process but at the other end - I would have to say you will find wildly divergent opinions.

Are you planning buying off the plan? Budget? Skytrain/MRT access it goes on and on. Best advice is to read though the most recently hit, high hit rate threads (first few pages), you should see what people are doing.

Good luck

Edited October 16, 2007 by pkrv

[Khun Bob]

I'm going to start knocking up a list...

Firstly there is what I must have, would like to have and not really concerned about - my also add what it must not have...

Then there are the elements to check and verify.

As I havent been through this process before, I beleive that there will be a learning curve and getting some first hand experience of seeing what actually is there and asking questions, getting information will cause me to change or choose not to commit at all.

As I mentioned before, I will be very much at the budget end - however, not too budget as these places tend to not be that well looked after.

I really wonder how one can assess the condo management committee and what they are like and how effective they are before having lived in a place for a year or so - I guess talk to some of the current occupants - but how will you get an objective view from people who may only tell you what they think is nice and what you want to hear. I guess the evidence is in the age, facilities and status of the building. This could give a strong indication of the upkeep. But over time - as the occupants of the building changes and the building ages, it will deteriorate. Despite being able to own a condo freehold, the lifespan of a condo, could well be less than my own lifespan !

This is going to be fun !

[cmsally]

1. What city

2. What area

3. To live in or rent/ maybe both at certain stages

4. What budget - probably determine the area for you

5. If an older building taking a look at it and talking to some of the occupants will give you a fair idea

6. If a new one follow the Thais who tend to shop for more trusted brand names

7. Close to BTS or MRT - very unlikely to devalue - bear in mind more than 500m is a long distance to walk for some people!!

[backflip]

Have you ever bought a home or condo anywhere? If so, your concerns should be the same.

[teejay]

LOCATION!

[Khun Bob]

Well I trawled TV the other day for a while and pulled out of many threads parts that go some way to what I was looking for - apologies, if necessary, to the originators as I have not mentioned them - but if you want to find who wrote it the search button above with the text should reveal all.

Here it is - it is not all flowing, it just comprises what I felt was significant - it would be good to have some further discussion on this

Read The Condo Act; read the Condo Regulations which is a legal document deposited with the Land Office; get the minutes of the AGMs AND the Minutes of the Committee Meetings. Does the Committee meet as specified in the Regulations? Have the projects planned for the year been completed or in progress? Ask for the AUDITED financials; ask for monthly financial statements - they are common property and some good condos put up on notice board for all to peruse. Other condos are may be secretive. Is there a Sinking Fund? Is Insurance Coverage enough? What are the yearly maintenance fees? What percentage of co-owners do not pay? Walk the emergency stairwells - what kind of lighting? Does the lighting work? Are the stairwells clear and clean? Check the fire fighting equipment; check that security personnel are smart, courteous and at their stations. Do office staff have name badges? Is the building secure or can anyone just walk in and go where he pleases? Is the perimeter secure? Is there CCTV and does it work? Are there recordings and how long are they kept? Are the grounds neat and tidy? Is the garbage room clean and tidy? How often is garbage collected? Is there 24 hour coverage by English speaking staff? Are the Committee Members approachable and helpful? Meet the Manager. If he/she won't answer questions and says go speak with the Committee then do so. If Committee says go speak with manager then unless you really like the building and would like to fight all this kind of nonsense at the AGM and during the year, go find somewhere else to live. Check the basement for damp. What facilities (residents' lounge, exercise room, etc.) are available and are they in use and good repair? Swimming pool? Tennis court? Speak with as many non-committee member residents as possible. Are there karaoke bars and other noise nearby? If there is a view is there the possibility it could be blocked in the future? Check basement rooms for trash, evidence of staff (and their friends) staying there. Ask about major maintenance projects - sewage and drainage, water and filtration, roof, roads, gardens, painting of outside of building and corridors, elevators. Parking spaces are common property and should not be allocated. If there is a key card system how often is it changed? How many key cards have been issued? How many are unaccounted for? How long to wait for an elevator during high season? Try to find out how many burglaries in past 2 years.

Hope that helps!

Re lawyer: Perhaps the guys looking after Jomthien Complex's problems with View Talay 7? Asia LawWorks on Tepparasit Road.

I would recommend that you buy a second hand unit in an established development. As Tammi suggested, check what the maintenance fee is (mine is 10 baht per square meter per month) and if the units are billed directly by the electric company. The grounds should be well kept and the swimming pool spotless. The maintenance fund should have a healthy balance if not a surplus. The condo association will also have records of what percentage of units are foreign owned. DON'T get stuck with a unit owned by a bogus Thai company. If you cannot own it freehold, keep looking.

I also believe that decent second hand units are quickly going up in price due to the crazy cost of new units and the problems with housing "owned" by farangs through bogus companies.

Also: Availability of (IDD) telephone (data) lines and the cost of same (some condos charge a criminal amount to get a IDD line). Availability of cable TV choice and options for putting up own satellite dish(es).

Yes, a good list. I would also be sure the building has a sprinkler system (especially in a high-rise). I would also buy my own insurance in addition and/or supplement what the association carries.

Make sure most if not all the units in the building have been sold and are occupied by the owners. The ratio of owner occupied to rentals is vital as well as "real solds", developers often give deals to celebrities to get their name to use, but won't be there in a few years. Likewise developers often carry many of the expenses of operations during the "sale period" which are only thrown onto the association once the builder is gone.

Buy into an existing block minimum of three years old.

Why you ask?

New blocks have non stop conversions by the owners

Hammering, banging, drilling all day every day. mad.gif

By real Thai craftsmen!!!!!!!!

You all know the guys I mean, they turn up with a toolkit consisting of

1) A bent screwdriver.

2) A Hammer.

3) And a big grin on the face.

You can't get a TT3 (FET) for amounts less than $20k but you can get a letter from the bank saying that the money was brought in from overseas and stating the amount and the exchange rate. It's called a Bai Rap Rong.

[Khun Bob]

Any more points to look out for anyone ?

[skytraining]

Just look at your prospective co-owners. Are they a "metrosexual" Thai/Japanese/Westerner mix, or do they all look like they just moved in from the country? You are going to live with them for a long time, so choose people who think like you do...

Edited October 30, 2007 by skytraining

[Khun Bob]

Just look at your prospective co-owners. Are they a "metrosexual" Thai/Japanese/Westerner mix, or do they all look like they just moved in from the country? You are going to live with them for a long time, so choose people who think like you do...

Good point - for the price range I'm considering it will probabaly be all thais - but of what status and background ? I've lived in a few cheap places and visited a few too so I have an ide what your talking about. I know when considering a property here in the UK it is a good idea to go along a different times of the day and days of the week, just to see what is going on. There must be some good lists on the net on what to consider when buying a place to live in anywhere - would be good to have those and put on here - also would be good to have some more that are specific to buying a condo in thailand.

[pkrv]

Cosmopolitan - is the word that comes to mind - most are, with a few very, very, sad exceptions.

[Khun Bob]

The condos I'll be considering are in the less then 500K bracket - so metrosexual and cosmopolitan dont really apply here I think.

I'm just after things to look out for the basic concrete box that this money gets, but with a few frills, like broadband - mayb e with a direct phone line and bills direct with the water and electricity company

Thanks

[naturalpoints]

Just look at your prospective co-owners. Are they a "metrosexual" Thai/Japanese/Westerner mix, or do they all look like they just moved in from the country? You are going to live with them for a long time, so choose people who think like you do...

Yeah....Are they any fit chicks in the block or tranny's running around waving their boll@*ks!

Khun Bob, looks like you've answered the question yourself.

Well done.

Now get it and let's party init

[pkrv]

Sorry I can't resist...

Held off site of course

Edited November 2, 2007 by pkrv

[Khun Bob]

Khun Bob, looks like you've answered the question yourself.

I wish I could be so astute and fortunate - however as seems to be the norm on TV now - the people who can make sensible comments on the subject dont - and I wonder why ?

[Khun Bob]

So what do you consider when buying a condo in Thailand ?

[asiaworld]

Well Khun Bob, after reading this & your other thread, i have a few questions to you,but also may offer some help .

Don't know if you realise, what you'd get for the price range specified ?!? Do you speak thai well, or do you have any thai speaker, you completely trust ?! What you get in this price range ain't gonna be pretty . Now if you double your budget to upto a mil. you'll have much more decent choice. Nobody you'll talk to will speak a word of english ! I did bought in lower end myself, & I AM LOOKING for MORE ! this is where you get great rental returns . If you serious & need help in BKK, you may pm me, we may start over the phone, & i may help, coz i did it myself, all in thai.. Nothing scary, but you need to know the language, as i said.. Unless you have car, you'll lock yourself in some Muang Thong Thani sort of area, where your only transport option will be occasional taxi .

[Greenside]

So what do you consider when buying a condo in Thailand ?

I was struggling with the same issues and started a thread before I'd read all of this one. Since I'm about to have to make a decision I have listed most of the points suggested on here and will use it as the basis for evaluating the unit I'm considering.

I can't get the topic link to work but here it is in longhand: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1636005

Edited November 6, 2007 by Greenside

[Khun Bob]

Greenside - excellent list - I hope you dont mind me putting it here as it may just provide some stimulus for constructive feed back which seems to be getting more and more elusive on TV !

Who cares about the price - if you know what to look for and you undertake it then at least in the future you cannot criticise your due diligence - plus at the lower price range your limiting your overall risk !

Checklist for Buying a Used Condo

1. Get the minutes of the AGMs AND the Minutes of the Committee Meetings.

2. Read The Condo Act; read the Condo Regulations which is a legal document deposited with the Land Office

3. The Condo Association will also have records of what percentage of units are foreign owned. DON'T get stuck with a unit owned by a bogus Thai company.

4. Does the Committee meet as specified in the Regulations?

5. Are the Committee Members approachable and helpful?

6. Speak with as many non-committee member residents as possible

7. Meet the Manager. If he/she won't answer questions and says go speak with the Committee then do so.

8. If Committee says go speak with manager then unless you really like the building and would like to fight all this kind of nonsense at the AGM and during the year, go find somewhere else to buy.

9. Ask for the AUDITED financials; ask for monthly financial statements - they are common property and some good condos put up on notice board for all to peruse. Other condos are/may be secretive. If so, why?

10. Ask about major maintenance projects - sewage and drainage, water and filtration, roof, roads, gardens, painting of outside of building and corridors, elevators.

11. Have the projects planned for the previous year been completed OK? How about any work in progress?

12. Check the basement for damp.

13. Is there a Sinking Fund? Is it sufficient?

14. Is Insurance Coverage enough?

15. What are the yearly maintenance fees? What percentage of co-owners do not pay.

16. Are smoke alarms installed in common areas? In individual units? Are they checked and monitored and/or connected to the fire service?

17. Is there a sprinkler system?

18. Walk the emergency stairwells - what kind of lighting? Does it work? Are the stairwells clear and clean?

19. Check that fire fighting equipment is available and periodically maintained (there should be a record of costs associated with this so you don't just have to take someone's word for it)

20. Check that security personnel are smart, courteous and at their stations.

21. Is there 24 hour coverage by English speaking staff?

22. Does the office staff have name badges?

23. Is the building secure or can anyone just walk in and go where they please?

24. Is the perimeter secure?

25. Is there CCTV and does it work?

26. Are there recordings and how long are they kept?

27. If there is a key card system how often is it changed? How many key cards have been issued? How many are unaccounted for?

28. Try to find out how many burglaries in past 2 years.

29. Are the grounds neat and tidy?

30. Is the garbage room clean and tidy? How often is garbage collected?

31. Availability of (IDD) telephone (data) lines and the cost of same (some condos charge a criminal amount to get a IDD line).

32. Availability of cable TV choice and options for putting up own satellite dish(es).

33. Cost of metered services – water and electricity if supplied by building and cost of changing to own meters.

34. What facilities (residents' lounge, exercise room, etc.) are available and are they in use and good repair? Swimming pool? Tennis court? Is there a charge?

35. Are facilities open to non-residents? This can lead to an increased security risk and different atmosphere with strangers coming and going frequently. Is additional wear and tear on the facilities covered by the charges to non-residents or does the management pocket the takings?

36. Are there karaoke bars or other noisy places nearby? How often? How loud? How late?

37. If there is a view is there the possibility it could be blocked in the future?

38. Check basement rooms for trash, evidence of staff (and their friends) staying there.

39. Parking spaces are common property and should not be allocated.

40. How long to wait for an elevator during high season?

41. How many units are currently unoccupied?

42. How many units are currently offered for sale or rent? Check other prices.

43. Make sure most if not all the units in the building are occupied by the owners.

44. If the management offers to rent condo's on the owners' behalf, how much do they charge and exactly what service is on offer?

So what do you consider when buying a condo in Thailand ?

I was struggling with the same issues and started a thread before I'd read all of this one. Since I'm about to have to make a decision I have listed most of the points suggested on here and will use it as the basis for evaluating the unit I'm considering.

I can't get the topic link to work but here it is in longhand: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1636005

[Khun Bob]

Hi Asiaworld - I'm well aware of what I'm looking for and will expect. I speak thai well and have gone for a number of months without any english contact - the less non-thais in the building the better as far as I am concerned. And at the price range I am considering I would expect there to be zero foreigners in the building.

If you have something useful to add, please put it on here, for the benefit of everyone. Otherwise, if you see this as a potential lucrative opportunity, then please put some useful new information on this thread to establish your credibility.

TIA

Well Khun Bob, after reading this & your other thread, i have a few questions to you,but also may offer some help .

Don't know if you realise, what you'd get for the price range specified ?!? Do you speak thai well, or do you have any thai speaker, you completely trust ?! What you get in this price range ain't gonna be pretty . Now if you double your budget to upto a mil. you'll have much more decent choice. Nobody you'll talk to will speak a word of english ! I did bought in lower end myself, & I AM LOOKING for MORE ! this is where you get great rental returns . If you serious & need help in BKK, you may pm me, we may start over the phone, & i may help, coz i did it myself, all in thai.. Nothing scary, but you need to know the language, as i said.. Unless you have car, you'll lock yourself in some Muang Thong Thani sort of area, where your only transport option will be occasional taxi .

[thaigene2]

I'm looking to by a condo in the lower price range in the next 6-9 months. I will be making a list of the factors I need to consider so that I may be able to :

* Understand what is significant, what is not

* Know what to watch out for - what traps could I potentially be caught in

* Understand how factors may change over the years and how to identify this early

* Know if I am being given the right prices and not paying over the odds for all aspects

* Cover elements like location, facilities, services, legalities, legal service providers, resale, rental, property management, any other significant elements ?

Many people on TV must have been through this and by using the search function much useful information will be brought up. I will be doing that and posting back on here. What would be nice is if anyone has recently een through the condo purchase process and has performed a pre-assessment or due-diligence for the purchase and longer term living or use of the condo that they may share their finding on here.

Thanks in advance

I got part way through this last year (due dilligence with one of the big firms that advertises here), then the sale fell apart because the bank (SCB) was told to withdraw all housing loan agreements to foreigners (not yet completed).

Now I'm a serious pessimist (even though the lending seems to be flowing again) largely because of the uncertain visa issues. I want that sorted out before I venture into the market again - and the signs seem to be anti-foreigner as far as I can tell - so not a good sign.

Anyway, the due dilligence part seemed to work ok - except you need to be pro-active and not passive - don;t just leave it to your lawyer (BUT ABSOLUTELY HAVE A THAI LAWYER - FROM A GOOD COMPANY) and look VERY carefully at the chanote (title) and which units it refers to in any given bldg. This sounds rather obvious, but you're dealing in a different language and system so it's easy to overlook things - and Thai lawyers aren't always as good as the one I had. This became an issue in my transaction - good lawyer - dodgy numbering on the titles (multiple units involved). Didn't matter in the end as I said above.

The other thing is the number of foreign owners - not such a big deal here in BKK - but a real issue in the tourist/retirement/resort areas. in my case (in BKK) the building managers Plus Property (not sure if that breaches forum rules - sorry) wouldn't issue a letter indicating the percentage of foreign owners in advance of the purchase - that would have been a BIG problem and could scupper the transaction at the Land Office (NOTE: That's where you do the deal - not before!!! The seller hands over the title to your lawyer who is present, along with a gaurantee of the building manager about the number of foreign ownership, and then you hand over the cashier's cheque - the land Office guy writes your name on the title - nothing short of that is acceptable - any reason the Thai official cannot complete that function means NO DEAL!!

No compromises..just walk away with your money in hand.

[Khun Bob]

Thanks for an excellent reply - containing facts and useful information based on actual experience that many people may well benefit from !

May I ask what was the reason given that they would not issue a statement of foreign ownership prior to the purchase ? This should be a relatively straightforward task if the condo management have the data at hand. Or is this an indication of kick backs that take place on the sale of units or creating an opportunity for additional payment for this information ?

TIA

I'm looking to by a condo in the lower price range in the next 6-9 months. I will be making a list of the factors I need to consider so that I may be able to :

* Understand what is significant, what is not

* Know what to watch out for - what traps could I potentially be caught in

* Understand how factors may change over the years and how to identify this early

* Know if I am being given the right prices and not paying over the odds for all aspects

* Cover elements like location, facilities, services, legalities, legal service providers, resale, rental, property management, any other significant elements ?

Many people on TV must have been through this and by using the search function much useful information will be brought up. I will be doing that and posting back on here. What would be nice is if anyone has recently een through the condo purchase process and has performed a pre-assessment or due-diligence for the purchase and longer term living or use of the condo that they may share their finding on here.

Thanks in advance

I got part way through this last year (due dilligence with one of the big firms that advertises here), then the sale fell apart because the bank (SCB) was told to withdraw all housing loan agreements to foreigners (not yet completed).

Now I'm a serious pessimist (even though the lending seems to be flowing again) largely because of the uncertain visa issues. I want that sorted out before I venture into the market again - and the signs seem to be anti-foreigner as far as I can tell - so not a good sign.

Anyway, the due dilligence part seemed to work ok - except you need to be pro-active and not passive - don;t just leave it to your lawyer (BUT ABSOLUTELY HAVE A THAI LAWYER - FROM A GOOD COMPANY) and look VERY carefully at the chanote (title) and which units it refers to in any given bldg. This sounds rather obvious, but you're dealing in a different language and system so it's easy to overlook things - and Thai lawyers aren't always as good as the one I had. This became an issue in my transaction - good lawyer - dodgy numbering on the titles (multiple units involved). Didn't matter in the end as I said above.

The other thing is the number of foreign owners - not such a big deal here in BKK - but a real issue in the tourist/retirement/resort areas. in my case (in BKK) the building managers Plus Property (not sure if that breaches forum rules - sorry) wouldn't issue a letter indicating the percentage of foreign owners in advance of the purchase - that would have been a BIG problem and could scupper the transaction at the Land Office (NOTE: That's where you do the deal - not before!!! The seller hands over the title to your lawyer who is present, along with a gaurantee of the building manager about the number of foreign ownership, and then you hand over the cashier's cheque - the land Office guy writes your name on the title - nothing short of that is acceptable - any reason the Thai official cannot complete that function means NO DEAL!!

No compromises..just walk away with your money in hand.

[Khun Bob]

Bump

Thanks for an excellent reply - containing facts and useful information based on actual experience that many people may well benefit from !

May I ask what was the reason given that they would not issue a statement of foreign ownership prior to the purchase ? This should be a relatively straightforward task if the condo management have the data at hand. Or is this an indication of kick backs that take place on the sale of units or creating an opportunity for additional payment for this information ?

TIA

[Heng]

The developers reputation is a good starting point for me. I wouldn't buy from anyone other than AP or Land & House... there are surely plenty of others who are just as good, but I'd rather not risk it when my hard earned satang are at stake. A poorly managed high rise condo is basically just a high rise shack.

[TonyLeung]

If I were to buy a condo, I would consider location as the #1 priority. Building condominiums does not take up as much land as people think and contrary to popular opinion, there is still plenty of land available along the BTS and MRT lines... Just look at that 360 photo from Bayoke Tower... Bangkok is nowhere near as crowded as say Hong Kong.... So I don't think condominiums built around BTS stations like Aree or on Ratchada should be considered 'great locations'. If they are poorly managed, the price will decrease over time, plenty of new condominiums will spring up next door and the 'location' that is being advertised to you now wont make up for it.

However, when you look at areas like Soi Sala Daeng, Suk 24, Wireless Road, there isn't much room left at all.

[TonyLeung]

Actually, the first thing I would consider before location would be Thailand's political situation and potential dictatorships on the horizon.

Edited November 11, 2007 by TonyLeung

[thaigene2]

May I ask what was the reason given that they would not issue a statement of foreign ownership prior to the purchase ? This should be a relatively straightforward task if the condo management have the data at hand. Or is this an indication of kick backs that take place on the sale of units or creating an opportunity for additional payment for this information ?

They said they would only give the written statement on day of property transfer. They gave me a 'verbal' assurance that foreign ownership stood at around 11% of saleable area - well within the limits. The place was already completed and pretty much fully occupied except for this larger unit and a couple of others - all being resold by speculators. I think originally a few years ago it was selling for less than 50,000 M2 when new.

I guess it was just laziness on their part - but I didn't want to hand over a deposit to the seller without a guarantee of the foreign-owner-percentage because if it turned out to be at the limit, the sellers could have just walked away with the deposit (e.g. not their problem - I forfeit by not completing transaction on the date specified)...in summary, that deposit was enough money for them to buy a new car!

Edited November 11, 2007 by thaigene2

[thaigene2]

Actually, the first thing I would consider before location would be Thailand's political situation and potential dictatorships on the horizon.

True.

But I would clarify that with my own concern that, not so much the dictatorships, but rather the backlash by future governments (military or civilian) against foreigners here - especially if they need a scapegoat for some reason. The future doesn't look too stable when you consider how the rich and powerful families here are so factionalized - and have always been that way.

While they almost seem comical and downright foolish at times with their petty statements and puffed-up sense of importance, they could be very dangerous indeed. When (not 'if' IMHO) these families start fighting over the spoils in the years to come, watch out..that's when it could get really ugly...and that's when the farang scapegoat looks like a good target to redirect mass discontent.

[Khun Bob]

Yet again this reinforces never bring to Thailand what you cant afford to lose. However, some people are looking at a future where Cambodia, Burma and Vietnam are equally good destinations as Thailand is **Currently**.

Neverthless, good points of view.

A few posts back, AP and Land & Home were mentioned. Could you provide some more details on these please.

I'd also like to add that I'm interested in condos that are up to 10 years old, already built and less then 500K baht.

[Heng]

A few posts back, AP and Land & Home were mentioned. Could you provide some more details on these please.

I'd also like to add that I'm interested in condos that are up to 10 years old, already built and less then 500K baht.

Here are the links. Just two rather experienced developers who are known for maintaining projects well after they are completely sold out.

AP and LH

They are indeed priced out of your target range though. For those who are looking for "midpriced" (yeah, it's all relative) homes and condos from 1.5-15 million, they are the best IMO.