Condo's

[JimmyTheMook]

Will Condo's in Pattaya continue to grow in value as the housing market is dead for Farang's ?

Or will the demand for condo's taper off as well.

Are the savy investors amoung us still buying?

Your thoughts

[GooMaiRoo]

Will Condo's in Pattaya continue to grow in value as the housing market is dead for Farang's ?

Or will the demand for condo's taper off as well.

Are the savy investors amoung us still buying?

Your thoughts

I've been wondering about this also, but from what I can understand the dead housing market is mostly down to the ownership issues. The proposed changes to the foreign business act has scared many would be house buyers away, until after the election I guess. I supposes it's OK if you're married to a Thai and put it in their name because of the 50/50 split if a divorce ever occured. With condos a farang can own 49% in his/her own name and 51% Thai. The 49% in almost any condo will appreciate in value at a good rate due to the fact that it's in your own name. I have my doubts about the 51% Thai ownership, as they're not so desirable - unless you're married to a Thai. I don't think demand will taper off but there seems to be something new launched each week and the developers must be worrying about where all the customers will come from. Realistically I would say it's going to be another 6 months until we see any major changes and things picking up. These are just my thoughts so you may not agree.

[DonTron]

I know everyone is talking about that the real estate marked has come to a stop - and what if the millitary government stays etc..

But I believe 100% in Pattaya, especially in the condo marked. And let me tell you why...

Raimon Land:

- Northshore (where I invested) sold out fast!

- Northpoint (where I thought it was way too pricy) sold out before even laying one brick. And we are talking 12-24 mill bath pr. condo here.

- And if that wasnt enough, Raimon Land now starts Northpoint II and Southshore Lofts also!

(and they only got one project in bangkok and one project in Phuket - they believe strongly in Pattaya)

Ocean One Tower:

- The tallest condo building in the world and tallest building in Thailand

- 135.000 bath pr. sqm is a rip off but people are still buying and buying

Möven Pick condos and hotel:

- Totally new cool "The Sails" style condo and hotel

- Again, they pick Pattaya, not phuket or hua hin!

With these kind of players pumping billions into Pattaya - I dont see how we can loose.

My money stays here.

[Pattaya46]

- Northshore (where I invested) sold out fast!

Yes...

Many investors bought there... So many appartments for sale there : Investors now try to sell but nobody want buy...

Same things for VT6 : Most appartments bought by investors. Delivery date approach (December ?) and they have to sell before having to pay ! So many appartments now for sale at promotor price, sometimes less !

Buyer marker. For sure.

[Lazy Sod]

Many investors bought there... So many appartments for sale there : Investors now try to sell but nobody want buy...

Buyer marker. For sure.

I don't mean this in a contradictory way, but I'd consider buying a discounted 1 bed condo at Northshore if you know someone desparate to sell at a rock bottom price. I've seen a few for sale on the web, but I consider the asking prices of sometimes +100,000/m2 far too high (it's what you'd pay for a Grade A condo in prime areas here in Bangkok). To me, the fair value of something like Northshore in Pattaya is about 70,000/m2 and so it doesn't surprise me that they can't sell them.

[bingobongo]

Will Condo's in Pattaya continue to grow in value as the housing market is dead for Farang's ?

Or will the demand for condo's taper off as well.

Are the savy investors amoung us still buying?

Your thoughts

nice oxymoron

the fact that you have to ask that question shows that you are not "savy"

[GooMaiRoo]

I know everyone is talking about that the real estate marked has come to a stop - and what if the millitary government stays etc..

But I believe 100% in Pattaya, especially in the condo marked. And let me tell you why...

Raimon Land:

- Northshore (where I invested) sold out fast!

- Northpoint (where I thought it was way too pricy) sold out before even laying one brick. And we are talking 12-24 mill bath pr. condo here.

- And if that wasnt enough, Raimon Land now starts Northpoint II and Southshore Lofts also!

(and they only got one project in bangkok and one project in Phuket - they believe strongly in Pattaya)

Ocean One Tower:

- The tallest condo building in the world and tallest building in Thailand

- 135.000 bath pr. sqm is a rip off but people are still buying and buying

Möven Pick condos and hotel:

- Totally new cool "The Sails" style condo and hotel

- Again, they pick Pattaya, not phuket or hua hin!

With these kind of players pumping billions into Pattaya - I dont see how we can loose.

My money stays here.

I agree with you though not fully. Moven Pick already have a hotel and condos in Phuket, they took over what was the Crown Plaza, quite a nice development on Karon Beach before you get to the Hilton Hotel (Arcadia). Together with the upscale condos shooting up, you just have to look at all these new malls to see that there is huge confidence in Pattaya.

[hughden]

"Ocean One Tower:

- The tallest condo building in the world and tallest building in Thailand

- 135.000 bath pr. sqm is a rip off but people are still buying and buying"

In March they were proclaiming they had sold 20% of the units; now they have announced they have sold 23%; hardly a rush to buy it would seem.

In March they advised construction would start in late May or early June. No sign of any construction yet.

[PattayaParent]

And the Sails has sunk.

[JimmyTheMook]

Will Condo's in Pattaya continue to grow in value as the housing market is dead for Farang's ?

Or will the demand for condo's taper off as well.

Are the savy investors amoung us still buying?

Your thoughts

nice oxymoron

the fact that you have to ask that question shows that you are not "savy"

Not sure COMP , but I maybe stupid as I just put down a deposit on a condo today

[pop3]

One bomb blast could change the whole market.

[bangkapiboy]

I just bought another condo in Jomtien. I still feel bullish on condos in Jomtien/Pattaya. People like Pattaya a lot, but Jomtien is where I expect to see the most growth in condos.

And I feel 23% sold on on Ocean 1 aint bad when they haven't even built the foundation yet.

[monty]

Just to put things in perspective, when they say they have sold 23%, they actually mean they have received deposits on 23% of the units.

These deposits are mostly done by people who have no intention of owning a condo at all, they are just speculating that by locking in the much lower pre-building promotion price, they might be able to sell on the unit for the regular higher price later on when construction starts with as only investment maybe a 5% deposit on the value of the unit!

[NanLaew]

One bomb blast could change the whole market.

The same way as 9/11 and the twin towers wiped out the NY housing market? The way the 2005 summer bombing in London killed the London market? The way the Bali bombing decimated that holiday destination?

I subscribe to the resilience of human nature and the power of money myself.

[think_too_mut]

One bomb blast could change the whole market.

The same way as 9/11 and the twin towers wiped out the NY housing market? The way the 2005 summer bombing in London killed the London market? The way the Bali bombing decimated that holiday destination?

I subscribe to the resilience of human nature and the power of money myself.

More closely illustration would be:

9/11 damaged business air travel but did not kill it. It did kill off leisure travel.

That could be a lose parallel with One bomb blast could change the whole market.

[JimmyTheMook]

One bomb blast could change the whole market.

The same way as 9/11 and the twin towers wiped out the NY housing market? The way the 2005 summer bombing in London killed the London market? The way the Bali bombing decimated that holiday destination?

I subscribe to the resilience of human nature and the power of money myself.

More closely illustration would be:

9/11 damaged business air travel but did not kill it. It did kill off leisure travel.

That could be a lose parallel with One bomb blast could change the whole market.

Pattaya IMHO will have one draw that will remain a magnet regardless of hel_l or high water.

[naka]

People are still buying but the ones who put their money down

earlier this year on speculation now cannot sell.

Just look at the huge number of ads in the local papers.

Naka.

[NanLaew]

More closely illustration would be:

It did kill off leisure travel.

Then how come it's so hard getting a confirmed coach seat on a plane or you run a higher risk of getting bumped off a flight if you are late checking in?

[pop3]

People are still buying but the ones who put their money down

earlier this year on speculation now cannot sell.

Just look at the huge number of ads in the local papers.

Naka.

There are thousands of condos for sale in Pattaya at the moment, They are advertised everywhere. They are still building new. I assume they are hoping for a substantial increase in the people wanting to come here, but if something happens (a bomb blast ect) many of these new people wanting to come will change direction.

I think there’s just too many condo’s ?

[farangfool]

People are still buying but the ones who put their money down

earlier this year on speculation now cannot sell.

Just look at the huge number of ads in the local papers.

Naka.

There are thousands of condos for sale in Pattaya at the moment, They are advertised everywhere. They are still building new. I assume they are hoping for a substantial increase in the people wanting to come here, but if something happens (a bomb blast ect) many of these new people wanting to come will change direction.

I think there's just too many condo's ?

Just have a look at the VT 6 thread below. Another bunch of buyers disappointed (or fooled???) Mall on the one side, next door the next VT building (I call it a project, looks like chicago or detroit....) and in front another development. To call that an investment, gimme a break. So the market to a good extent the market is based on fooling people and short term extra profits. I keep my money in the bank, I had looked for some place and, dear developers and agents, those millions are still sitting where they were months ago. Better rent and switch when I like it. Ahh, rents will go down!!! Some many new empty places.

[think_too_mut]

More closely illustration would be:

It did kill off leisure travel.

Then how come it's so hard getting a confirmed coach seat on a plane or you run a higher risk of getting bumped off a flight if you are late checking in?

Remember post 9/11 when half US commercial aircraft fleet was "parked" in Mojave desert? Hundreds of thousands airline and airline related workers lost their jobs. It took 3 years claw back and that saw most of US airlines in bankrupcy protection.

That kind of "killing". Something similar would not stop too many people coming to Pattaya but would make a big dent into the number of those (who may still be visiting and/or renting) willing to spend millions of baht on property.

Edited October 21, 2007 by think_too_mut

[think_too_mut]

One bomb blast could change the whole market.

The same way as 9/11 and the twin towers wiped out the NY housing market? The way the 2005 summer bombing in London killed the London market? The way the Bali bombing decimated that holiday destination?

I subscribe to the resilience of human nature and the power of money myself.

More closely illustration would be:

9/11 damaged business air travel but did not kill it. It did kill off leisure travel.

That could be a lose parallel with One bomb blast could change the whole market.

Pattaya IMHO will have one draw that will remain a magnet regardless of hel_l or high water.

To enjoy that "magnet" one does not have to buy a condo of any price, let alone 12-14+ mil baht.

Pair of sandals, shorts, singlet and a 300-500B "hotel" is all it takes to "magnetize" to one's heart content.

Actually, good chance those on the cheap would be drilling into the same holes in the "magnet" as the buyers in Pattaya property.

Edited October 21, 2007 by think_too_mut

[moo9]

I think the market will remain rather stable, not booming but on the other hand not crashing.

Many investments here are done by cash, so people do not have to rent out desperately.

There are many nice new developments and Pattaya will continue to grow (see all the new hotels and shopping centers).

However I agree that some condos are simply too expensive now, but if you can grab a decent project at 40,000 - 50,000 Bht/sqm, you should be ok.

PS: Personally i think that the Wongamat area, as well as Central Pattaya will be a better place to invest compared with Jomtien.

Edited October 21, 2007 by moo9

[sohn]

I think the market will remain rather stable, not booming but on the other hand not crashing.

Many investments here are done by cash, so people do not have to rent out desperately.

There are many nice new developments and Pattaya will continue to grow (see all the new hotels and shopping centers).

However I agree that some condos are simply too expensive now, but if you can grab a decent project at 40,000 - 50,000 Bht/sqm, you should be ok.

PS: Personally i think that the Wongamat area, as well as Central Pattaya will be a better place to invest compared with Jomtien.

Would you like to expand on that?

Is not Jomtien, due to have some the things you mentioned and some more you did not ?

Edited October 21, 2007 by sohn

[think_too_mut]

There are many nice new developments and Pattaya will continue to grow (see all the new hotels and shopping centers).

PS: Personally i think that the Wongamat area, as well as Central Pattaya will be a better place to invest compared with Jomtien.

Most of the growth is Thai related: behind the hills they make 1 million cars a year and export most of them. That's what the shopping malls are for - to scoop the money from the workers and their families. They are the engine of Pattaya's prosperity, uninterested in properties they can't afford.

Hotel guests are not supposed (nor they do) to drive home their pickup truck full of goods twice a month.

From that perspective, Jomtien or Nakhlua is irrelevant. It's a whole different plane of growth and interst. To earn money from foreign market, Bangkok Pattaya Hospital has opened a new, bigger wing to fleece foreign insurance companies whose insurers are settling in the area and, of course, the developers who believe their prices are right and variety just good.

Edited October 21, 2007 by think_too_mut

[NanLaew]

Remember post 9/11 when half US commercial aircraft fleet was "parked" in Mojave desert? Hundreds of thousands airline and airline related workers lost their jobs. It took 3 years claw back and that saw most of US airlines in bankrupcy protection.

I will concede that but they were so poorly run after deregulation that the aftermath of 9/11 only served to accelerate the inevitable bankruptcy of some of them.

[NanLaew]

Most of the growth is Thai related: behind the hills they make 1 million cars a year and export most of them. That's what the shopping malls are for - to scoop the money from the workers and their families. They are the engine of Pattaya's prosperity, uninterested in properties they can't afford.

Hotel guests are not supposed (nor they do) to drive home their pickup truck full of goods twice a month.

From that perspective, Jomtien or Nakhlua is irrelevant. It's a whole different plane of growth and interst. To earn money from foreign market, Bangkok Pattaya Hospital has opened a new, bigger wing to fleece foreign insurance companies whose insurers are settling in the area and, of course, the developers who believe their prices are right and variety just good.

I agree with you on that. The industrial sprawl of the eastern seaboard is immense. The crowds of locals that hit town every weekend don't all motor down from Bangkok like before. They live within half an hour or 45 minutes of the beaches. So foreign tourism and retirement income, although large, is small beans compared to the 'local content'. Makes nonsense of the notion some hold that if they piss off the farang 'resident tourists' enough, they will take their money elsewhere and Thailand will be poorer for that.

[ashleytiernan]

I think that Iguana's developments on Pratamnak Hill are an excellent investment. Hyde Park and Pattaya Heights, same quality as Raimond Land but only start from 50,000 baht per square meter.

[moo9]

I think the market will remain rather stable, not booming but on the other hand not crashing.

Many investments here are done by cash, so people do not have to rent out desperately.

There are many nice new developments and Pattaya will continue to grow (see all the new hotels and shopping centers).

However I agree that some condos are simply too expensive now, but if you can grab a decent project at 40,000 - 50,000 Bht/sqm, you should be ok.

PS: Personally i think that the Wongamat area, as well as Central Pattaya will be a better place to invest compared with Jomtien.

Would you like to expand on that?

Is not Jomtien, due to have some the things you mentioned and some more you did not ?

I simply find Wongamat nicer, better beach, not so crowded and there is simply not that much space for new projects than further down in the Jomtien area. Just my personal thinking.

[Lazy Sod]

I simply find Wongamat nicer, better beach, not so crowded and there is simply not that much space for new projects than further down in the Jomtien area. Just my personal thinking.

I find Jomtien Beach Road rather ugly. All those decaying shophouses and condo's, and the Beach is nothing special. Nowadays the Beach Road in Pattaya is much nicer in my opinion.