65% Of Voters Ready To Sell Votes

[PadThaiGuy]

Amusing that the 'cleanest' guy they could find to replace Thaksin own property in a National Forest.

How many millions does he have stashed away in foreign accouunts?

At least Thaksin is an intelligent, a self made billionair, that was organized and could run things.

Won elections by gigantic landslides.

A taskmaster that wanted to make the place like Singapore.

The current group are a bunch of military thugs (that stole their way to the top), couldn't make it in the business world much less run a Country.

[Tony Clifton]

Amusing that the 'cleanest' guy they could find to replace Thaksin own property in a National Forest.

Quite an improvement when the last guy in place had over 2500 murders under his belt, a missing lawyer, started his political carreer with an "honest mistake" on his assets declaration.

How many millions does he have stashed away in foreign accouunts?

More than a year later, how much have the anti-junta crowd and opponents found yet? What else have they found on the man? Nothing.

At least Thaksin is an intelligent, a self made billionair, that was organized and could run things.

With money, he surrounded himself with people who could do things for him for more money or save his ass from the law, people who could think up things he couldn't possibly think of, even if it meant breaking a few rules, he went ahead with it and handed out rewards afterwards. That's no sign of intelligence, it's a sign of corrupt power and control.. Do you think he knows how to run a football club? No. He is surrounded by people who know how to, he provides the money, nothing else.

Are you talking about the same man who was:

Telling people he wore his orange bracelet so much he actually broke two of them is an obvious childish lie and a sign of stupidity.

Telling journalists he won't answer questions with the help of a small sign with an X on it is childish and stupid.

Fleeing these same journalists and hiding up North, running the government by teleconference is a sign of stupidity AND cowardice.

Telling journalists he was misquoted due to his Chiang Mai dialect/accent is a childish lie and stupid.

Telling people his children ran Shin Corp was a stupid and childish lie.

Having his own reality show to boost his dipping popularity, handing out 1000 baht notes from his shirt pocket wasn't stupid but absurd.

Having his own family members involved in controversial deals with possible jail sentences is absurd, unless they're all made from the same criminal fabric.

Holding post-coup secret political meetings in China is not much of a sign of intelligence, he's not welcomed there anymore.

Buying his own personal Air Force One was stupid (smartly bought with taxpayer's money).

Won elections by gigantic landslides.

One of which was canceled due to his party caught cheating AND manipulating the Election Commission and it's Commissioners. How do you know he fairly won the other elections?

A taskmaster that wanted to make the place like Singapore.

With his mafia-like behaviour? Never in a thousand years would he have made the place to be like Singapore, had he been allowed to live that long. All he could come up with was the creation of a state within a state, a province surrounding the new airport where the Little Emperor could prolong his reign and influence should he feel the need to step down while his now dead party would have kept on ruling this country.

The current group are a bunch of military thugs (that stole their way to the top), couldn't make it in the business world much less run a Country.

Said it yourself, they are military, not businessmen nor politicians, unlike Thaksin, they haven't made promises they'd still be in power 20 years from now. Stole their way to the top? Some may see it that way while I think the military stole his opportunity to permanently be the man at the top, which ended up showing to all that he stole his way out of the country as a much richer man, something I'm sure he had foreseen while lying in bed thinking of the tangled web of lies and scams he's left behind him over the years, better have an emergency exit system in place. Hence his avoiding of facing the justice system which he somehow feels is good enough for him to throw lawsuits around, an old habit of his.

It's not over for him. He obviously can't accept that his present situation is the result of his past actions and blames it on a military power struggle.

He will keep on pushing it way beyond where any sane man would have stopped a long time ago.

Edited November 3, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[blaze]

Amusing that the 'cleanest' guy they could find to replace Thaksin own property in a National Forest.

Quite an improvement when the last guy in place had over 2500 murders under his belt, a missing lawyer, started his political carreer with an "honest mistake" on his assets declaration.

How many millions does he have stashed away in foreign accouunts?

More than a year later, how much have the anti-junta crowd and opponents found yet? What else have they found on the man? Nothing.

At least Thaksin is an intelligent, a self made billionair, that was organized and could run things.

With money, he surrounded himself with people who could do things for him for more money or save his ass from the law, people who could think up things he couldn't possibly think of, even if it meant breaking a few rules, he went ahead with it and handed out rewards afterwards. That's no sign of intelligence, it's a sign of corrupt power and control.. Do you think he knows how to run a football club? No. He is surrounded by people who know how to, he provides the money, nothing else.

Are you talking about the same man who was:

Telling people he wore his orange bracelet so much he actually broke two of them is an obvious childish lie and a sign of stupidity.

Telling journalists he won't answer questions with the help of a small sign with an X on it is childish and stupid.

Fleeing these same journalists and hiding up North, running the government by teleconference is a sign of stupidity AND cowardice.

Telling journalists he was misquoted due to his Chiang Mai dialect/accent is a childish lie and stupid.

Telling people his children ran Shin Corp was a stupid and childish lie.

Having his own reality show to boost his dipping popularity, handing out 1000 baht notes from his shirt pocket wasn't stupid but absurd.

Having his own family members involved in controversial deals with possible jail sentences is absurd, unless they're all made from the same criminal fabric.

Holding post-coup secret political meetings in China is not much of a sign of intelligence, he's not welcomed there anymore.

Buying his own personal Air Force One was stupid (smartly bought with taxpayer's money).

Won elections by gigantic landslides.

One of which was canceled due to his party caught cheating AND manipulating the Election Commission and it's Commissioners. How do you know he fairly won the other elections?

A taskmaster that wanted to make the place like Singapore.

With his mafia-like behaviour? Never in a thousand years would he have made the place to be like Singapore, had he been allowed to live that long. All he could come up with was the creation of a state within a state, a province surrounding the new airport where the Little Emperor could prolong his reign and influence should he feel the need to step down while his now dead party would have kept on ruling this country.

The current group are a bunch of military thugs (that stole their way to the top), couldn't make it in the business world much less run a Country.

Said it yourself, they are military, not businessmen nor politicians, unlike Thaksin, they haven't made promises they'd still be in power 20 years from now. Stole their way to the top? Some may see it that way while I think the military stole his opportunity to permanently be the man at the top, which ended up showing to all that he stole his way out of the country as a much richer man, something I'm sure he had foreseen while lying in bed thinking of the tangled web of lies and scams he's left behind him over the years, better have an emergency exit system in place. Hence his avoiding of facing the justice system which he somehow feels is good enough for him to throw lawsuits around, an old habit of his.

It's not over for him. He obviously can't accept that his present situation is the result of his past actions and blames it on a military power struggle.

He will keep on pushing it way beyond where any sane man would have stopped a long time ago.

Good post Tony. I don't agree with all of it- but your assessment of him embodying the Political Peter Principle was pretty much right on. You forgot the math teaching lessons he performed on TV- which must have really made a lot of professional teachers scratch their heads.

The guy got in above his head- actually the day he entered politics- and with a character like his- who needed enemies.

People often said that he should auk bai because he 'didn't listen'. But it was his inability to take advice (I'm sure there were people close to him who could see the blatant stupidity of much of his behavior) that would have eventually sidelined him.

Edited November 3, 2007 by blaze

[TAWP]

More than a year later, how much have the anti-junta crowd and opponents found yet? What else have they found on the man? Nothing.

Perhaps you would care to explain how a lifelong civil servant (interim PM Surayud) has legally amassed a personal fortune of over US$2.6 million?

Are you saying civil servants cannot do two things at once?

[John K]

Unfortunately the division that Thaksin started appears to be reemerging again.

One side the ant-Thaksin side seems to recognize right from wrong and that the path to a brighter future involves restoring the face of Thailand. That eventually will lead to a better standard of living.

The pro-Thaksin side seem very willing to eat from a dirty spoon for a quick short lived gain.

[PadThaiGuy]

More than a year later, how much have the anti-junta crowd and opponents found yet? What else have they found on the man? Nothing.

Perhaps you would care to explain how a lifelong civil servant (interim PM Surayud) has legally amassed a personal fortune of over US$2.6 million?

Are you saying civil servants cannot do two things at once?

Are you saying he is honest?

[John K]

More than a year later, how much have the anti-junta crowd and opponents found yet? What else have they found on the man? Nothing.

Perhaps you would care to explain how a lifelong civil servant (interim PM Surayud) has legally amassed a personal fortune of over US$2.6 million?

Are you saying civil servants cannot do two things at once?

Are you saying he is honest?

I don’t know the deal with Surayud but in general how old is he? How much do you think you would have at that age based on where he has been?

For most people the presumption of innocence where we should start. Thaksin however, the presumption of guilt would be the starting point. He already used up all his nice guy points last year. What’s the story with the land deal of building on a reserve? That seems to have faded, perhaps due to making something out of nothing.

Don’t misunderstand me, as I am not defending him. I know political dirt is flying so I am taking all this in stride and avoiding the knee jerk reaction that we read about so often.

[younghusband]

More than a year later, how much have the anti-junta crowd and opponents found yet? What else have they found on the man? Nothing.

Perhaps you would care to explain how a lifelong civil servant (interim PM Surayud) has legally amassed a personal fortune of over US$2.6 million?

Are you saying civil servants cannot do two things at once?

Are you saying he is honest?

I don’t know the deal with Surayud but in general how old is he? How much do you think you would have at that age based on where he has been?

For most people the presumption of innocence where we should start. Thaksin however, the presumption of guilt would be the starting point. He already used up all his nice guy points last year. What’s the story with the land deal of building on a reserve? That seems to have faded, perhaps due to making something out of nothing.

Don’t misunderstand me, as I am not defending him. I know political dirt is flying so I am taking all this in stride and avoiding the knee jerk reaction that we read about so often.

It depends.One doesn't know whether he inherited money (unlikely given his father's communist insurgent past) or whether he married into money.Middle class Bangkokians who inherited land can often be surprisingly asset rich given the explosion in property values over the last 20 years.However all things being equal one would expect a senior public servant like Surayud at the end of a long career mostly at the top to have accumulated a few million baht, let's say a maximum $ 150,000.The declarations by Surayud on his current wealth (several million $ dollars) can not be explained by career earnings.To make matters clear I am not suggesting or even implying dishonesty, simply that his wealth cannot be explained through savings on salary earned.It's not just Surayud by the way - look at the assets of any senior Thai public servant/armed services officer who has never earned more than say Bt 100,000 pm.

Thaksin, contrary to the current dishonest propaganda campaign, made his money relatively honestly albeit in the the monopolistic and uncompetitive way that comprises the Sino-Thai business milieu.Subsequently when he was already a tycoon, he used political power to change the rules and bolster his fortune.He should be held accountable for this and I've never really understood why the CNS didn't pursue this general charge more energetically.But did he steal feom the Thai people? Not really.The truth is that unlike most Thai politicians, Thaksin made his money legitimately unlike cabinet members over the last 20 years whose individual wealth by and large vastly exceeded their American or British equivalents.

[Plus]

Most of Surayud's family assets are in his wife's name and I bet most of it are land holdings. Surayud's own holdings could be simply family assets registered to his name once in a while. She owns their Bangkok residence, for example.

You are acting a bit silly suggesting that a family of a general who rose to a post of Supreme Commander couldn't accumulate a lousy million dollars over his career.

By Thaksin's cabinet standards he is a pauper.

Had the Nov election gone through as scheduled, with the Democrats taking part ... the wind would have been taken out of the PAD sails.

Why are you avoiding the crux of the matter, as if on purpose - it's not about Democrats, it's about Thaksin turning back on his word and running again.

That would have been the end of peace as Thaksin would have had to FORCE his decision on PAD, effectively declaring a war on 16 million people.

[hammered]

Things are also a bit copmplicated by the incredibly bad distribution of wealth in Thailand which generally means anyone fronm the elite or higher echelongs of middle class will appear very wealthy even by western standards. In fact imho it is this very inequitable distribution of wealth that deserves looking at if the current problems the country faces are ever to be solved. If I remember the figures correctly while Thailand has seen a reduction of those at poverty level the relative position of those that have moved above poverty level has gotten worse vis-a-vis the middle and upper classes of the country. This is not good for the human development of any society and shows pretty much the fallacy of trickle down economics where all development is just viewed ion terms of GDP rather than looking at how the GDP is distributed. It also explains why the majority of the country are so willing to accept more or less any handout they can get their hands on including vote buying even thouh many people also see that as wrong.

Maybe things would be better if the Thaksin and Surayud and anyone else accused of corruption stuff were just left to the courts and politicians actually started trying to realistically alleviate the true problems of the country. Sadly under the patronage system that exists this is highly unlikely to happen whether any election is won by Samak, Abhisit, Banharn or even Somchai the noodle seller. The current political polarisation and the "there is no neutral position" meme suits all sides of the current divide in maintaining the system they know exactly how to manipulate. It is just a matter of who will get to control that system. In the meantime the interests of the majority and the country suffer but with the simplistic angel/devil side taking that is so appealing to all few notice what is really going on and many will be right disappointed if some dodgyy little deal results that just sresets the relationships of the personalities in the higher echelons, so they can all get back to running things as normal without any ultra revenges awaiting any of them. This is not a case of Thaksin/Abhisit/Prachai/Surayud etc really caring about the developmetn of poor people and poor people politics.

[younghusband]

Most of Surayud's family assets are in his wife's name and I bet most of it are land holdings. Surayud's own holdings could be simply family assets registered to his name once in a while. She owns their Bangkok residence, for example.

You are acting a bit silly suggesting that a family of a general who rose to a post of Supreme Commander couldn't accumulate a lousy million dollars over his career.

By Thaksin's cabinet standards he is a pauper.

Had the Nov election gone through as scheduled, with the Democrats taking part ... the wind would have been taken out of the PAD sails.

Why are you avoiding the crux of the matter, as if on purpose - it's not about Democrats, it's about Thaksin turning back on his word and running again.

That would have been the end of peace as Thaksin would have had to FORCE his decision on PAD, effectively declaring a war on 16 million people.

Leaving the final rant to one side, I must come back to your comment on a "lousy million dollars" - actually , taking property out of it, rather more than many European generals (who have spent careers defending against their countries enemies rather than repressing their own people) have to their name.I don't doubt for a moment that senior Thai army generals have much more than this but that, not to mince words, is because of the Thai senior officer's corps generally appalling record of corruption,greed and dishonour.In the case of Surayud it's more of a puzzle because I genuinely believe him to be much better than most of his unsavoury colleagues .But do the math as the Yanks say.Let's assume average career earnings of $15,000 (a generous estimate): I just fail to see how after living expenses this translates into anything like "a lousy million dollars".In fact your expression of impatience suggests you feel that he probably has a lot more than that.Perhaps he has and in which case I remain doubly puzzled....... unless of course....

[Tony Clifton]

What's the big controversy around his owning a railway carriage?

I never could understand why there is so much fuss about owning a box on wheels that used to be pulled around by a train.

Was it once part of a national treasure?

Is it made of solid gold?

Can someone explain this or is there nothing to explain?

[Tony Clifton]

That's it huh... Oh well.

I'm also suspicious he's had bidets installed in those.

Surely an offense punishable by death.

[John K]

That's it huh... Oh well.

I'm also suspicious he's had bidets installed in those.

Surely an offense punishable by death.

You are okay with the leader of the country illegally acquiring assets then lying about it?

Strange, I had presumed because of constant tirades against Thaksin and the TRT you would find this sort of thing unacceptable.

I think you are missing a point, has 'x' been declared illegal or does someone want it to be illegal for political gain? Perhaps the NCCC already knows this.

As for the PPP/TRT, when they announce they were making major links with Thaksin, They set themselves up. It has the rough equivalent of someone walking around with a shirt on that says “I’m the man your mother warned you about.”

[John K]

That's it huh... Oh well.

I'm also suspicious he's had bidets installed in those.

Surely an offense punishable by death.

You are okay with the leader of the country illegally acquiring assets then lying about it?

Strange, I had presumed because of constant tirades against Thaksin and the TRT you would find this sort of thing unacceptable.

I think you are missing a point, has 'x' been declared illegal or does someone want it to be illegal for political gain? Perhaps the NCCC already knows this.

As for the PPP/TRT, when they announce they were making major links with Thaksin, They set themselves up. It has the rough equivalent of someone walking around with a shirt on that says “I’m the man your mother warned you about.”

Erm, he was accused of illegally acquiring four train compartments by the press, leaked to them by fellow general Chavalit Yongchaiyudh who believes they were acquired illegally.

An investigation by the NCCC would confirm or deny if they were obtained illegally.

Like I said political gain. If the accusation came from may independent sources it would carry more weight.

How often during a bitter divorce that the soon to be ex-wife accuses her soon to be ex-husband of misconduct with their children? Let me tell you it is very often and it is all for leverage. That happens much less now that the wife can spend some serious time in jail now for making false accusations if indeed they are false. Bottom line 60-20-20.

[blaze]

That's it huh... Oh well.

I'm also suspicious he's had bidets installed in those.

Surely an offense punishable by death.

You are okay with the leader of the country illegally acquiring assets then lying about it?

Strange, I had presumed because of constant tirades against Thaksin and the TRT you would find this sort of thing unacceptable.

I think you are missing a point, has 'x' been declared illegal or does someone want it to be illegal for political gain? Perhaps the NCCC already knows this.

As for the PPP/TRT, when they announce they were making major links with Thaksin, They set themselves up. It has the rough equivalent of someone walking around with a shirt on that says “I’m the man your mother warned you about.”

Erm, he was accused of illegally acquiring four train compartments by the press, leaked to them by fellow general Chavalit Yongchaiyudh who believes they were acquired illegally.

An investigation by the NCCC would confirm or deny if they were obtained illegally.

Like I said political gain. If the accusation came from may independent sources it would carry more weight.

And you consistently apply those same rigorous standards when sorting through the maze of allegations against Thaksin?

[blaze]

Most of Surayud's family assets are in his wife's name and I bet most of it are land holdings. Surayud's own holdings could be simply family assets registered to his name once in a while. She owns their Bangkok residence, for example.

You are acting a bit silly suggesting that a family of a general who rose to a post of Supreme Commander couldn't accumulate a lousy million dollars over his career.

By Thaksin's cabinet standards he is a pauper.

Had the Nov election gone through as scheduled, with the Democrats taking part ... the wind would have been taken out of the PAD sails.

Why are you avoiding the crux of the matter, as if on purpose - it's not about Democrats, it's about Thaksin turning back on his word and running again.

That would have been the end of peace as Thaksin would have had to FORCE his decision on PAD, effectively declaring a war on 16 million people.

As long as the Democrats were not participating in the elections- the elections were a farce.

That meant that changing the government would have to be accomplished by other means: and for many that meant the PAD rallies.

But with the Democrats agreeing to participate in this round of elections, they were indicating that the elections were the proper route to defeating the TRT, and that they accepted the essential principles underlying elections- including, if need be, graceful defeat. And if memory serves me right (which it rarely does) there was, about the time that the new round of elections was called and the agreement of the Democrats to participate, a significant dropping off in both numbers and frequency of PAD demonstrations.

With the TRT and the Democrats both choosing to play in the political arena, the PAD would have been isolated. I think. Certainly the PAD cause (namely that Thaksin simply awk bie)- was furthered and in a way, politically legitimized by the refusal of the major opposition party to participate in the elections- thus making a farce of the election. Without the democratic process, many people felt- and perhaps rightly- that the only way to effect change of government was on the streets- with the PAD.

Now- this would NOT have gotten rid of Thaksin or the TRT (likely) but it would have averted what some see on this board as an impending civil war- in that the opponents to the gov't, rather than marching and chanting (let alone running up to the hills for weapons training) would have tacitly accepted the decision of the electorate.

[blaze]

What's the big controversy around his owning a railway carriage?

I never could understand why there is so much fuss about owning a box on wheels that used to be pulled around by a train.

Was it once part of a national treasure?

Is it made of solid gold?

Can someone explain this or is there nothing to explain?

Probably the most damning allegation against Sarayuth is this snippet from the interview with Sondhi L, heroic leader of the PAD:

"I always had people calling me: "Khun Sondhi, could you move things a little bit forward, have a little confrontation, let us see a little blood?"

Were these military people making the calls?

[Nods]. "Or [Prime Minister] Surayud Chulanont ... I said no."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ID27Ae01.html

Given the willingness of many to hang on Sondhi L's every allegation as gospel truth, surprised that this one didn't raise a few eyebrows.

Edited November 4, 2007 by blaze

[sriracha john]

Congratulations everyone... We have a new Thaivisa record....

27 straight posts that have nothing to do with the thread topic.

Edited November 4, 2007 by sriracha john

[John K]

That's it huh... Oh well.

I'm also suspicious he's had bidets installed in those.

Surely an offense punishable by death.

You are okay with the leader of the country illegally acquiring assets then lying about it?

Strange, I had presumed because of constant tirades against Thaksin and the TRT you would find this sort of thing unacceptable.

I think you are missing a point, has 'x' been declared illegal or does someone want it to be illegal for political gain? Perhaps the NCCC already knows this.

As for the PPP/TRT, when they announce they were making major links with Thaksin, They set themselves up. It has the rough equivalent of someone walking around with a shirt on that says “I’m the man your mother warned you about.”

Erm, he was accused of illegally acquiring four train compartments by the press, leaked to them by fellow general Chavalit Yongchaiyudh who believes they were acquired illegally.

An investigation by the NCCC would confirm or deny if they were obtained illegally.

Like I said political gain. If the accusation came from may independent sources it would carry more weight.

And you consistently apply those same rigorous standards when sorting through the maze of allegations against Thaksin?

Blaze to answer your question, everyone saw what Thaksin was doing, in fact most alert Mathium 5 students could see it. The issue was proving it in a way that would satisfy the courts. Thaksin was and still is very good at hiding his illegal tracks.

About mid way through 2006, Thaksin gave up on trying to hide his dirt because he was going head to head with the PAD and simply there was not time. Going back even further to August 2005, things were beginning to break the surface and there was simply too much corruption going on for Thaksin to hide it all. The undeniable fact was Thaksin was in a whole different league when it came to corruption.

The accusations against anyone else can’t be compared, it is like a Hollywood blockbuster compared to a bad B movie, so yes different standards do apply.

[PadThaiGuy]

What's the big controversy around his owning a railway carriage?

I never could understand why there is so much fuss about owning a box on wheels that used to be pulled around by a train.

Was it once part of a national treasure?

Is it made of solid gold?

Can someone explain this or is there nothing to explain?

Private rail cars are the toys of the super rich, not usually owned by some schmuck on a Military payroll.

The ones I've seen go for at least $250,000 and cost a fortune to run and maintain.

[younghusband]

Congratulations everyone... We have a new Thaivisa record....

27 straight posts that have nothing to do with the thread topic.

It's comical how agitated the juntophiles become when their heroes come under fire.

[John K]

Please define juntophile younghusband, but be ready for the reply.

[younghusband]

Please define juntophile younghusband, but be ready for the reply.

Use your common sense since the meaning is obvious.PM me if it really is too much of a struggle for you to work it out.

Actually on a slightly different point I can respect those on this forum who reluctantly welcomed the coup last year as the only way to clear a political log jam.It's not a position I share but there I concede are some solid arguments to support it.These people are only technically juntophiles.The true juntophile is one who has an obsessive preoccupation with demonising Thaksin to the point where the incompetence, corruption and mediocrity of the junta is either overlooked or excused.

[blaze]

Please define juntophile younghusband, but be ready for the reply.

let's try this: someone who uncritically entrusts the well being of the nation to a military that has distinguished itself over the years with little more than its ability to enrich its higher ranks monetarily, periodically wage coups and brutally demonstrate its total contempt for the notion of human rights.

Extreme juntaphiles would include those who basically distrust that messy chaotic modern thing called "democracy" - and not just in Thailand-but do trust the authoritarian nature of armys- their discipline, structure and the raw power.

Edited November 5, 2007 by blaze

[sriracha john]

or...

when specifically targeted on a member of the forum 'juntophile' is best defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, rants, and/or for launching personal attacks, insulting, being hateful, useless criticism, name calling, swearing and other bad behavior or comments meant to incite anger.

[hammered]

What's the big controversy around his owning a railway carriage?

I never could understand why there is so much fuss about owning a box on wheels that used to be pulled around by a train.

Was it once part of a national treasure?

Is it made of solid gold?

Can someone explain this or is there nothing to explain?

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont yesterday denied a report - allegedly leaked to the press by an aide to General Chavalit Yongchaiyudh - that he illegally acquired four train compartments for his home in Nakhon Ratchasima.

The PM insisted his dealings had been clean and transparent.

During a press briefing at the Army Club, Surayud showed three aerial photos of his 20-rai residence allegedly taken on August 23, 2005 and explained its geography and how he selected this location for a retreat home.

"As you can see from these photos, there is no [train carriage] compartment," Surayud said.

Surayud, formerly the Army commander-in-chief, is an avid collector of model trains. He then joked to reporters that he had owned more than four train carriages but they were in Bangkok. He pointed to models placed in front of his podium, saying they were part of his collection. "I am a realistic person. I can explain any of your doubts," he said, adding that he would lead a group of reporters to visit his Nakhon Ratchasima residence after the New Year to clear up any suspicion.

However, no date was set.

An ex-military officer close to Chavalit was quoted on the weekend as saying his boss was scrutinising how four train carriages placed at Surayud's residence close to Khao Yai National Park in Nakhon Ratchasima were acquired, as he suspected they could have been illegally obtained.

Chavalit released a statement on Sunday, dismissing any involvement in the allegation.

Surayud believed the allegation would not lead to a rift with Chavalit. He said he staged the press briefing only to tell the truth to the public.

<a href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/12/26/politics/politics_30022525.php" target="_blank">http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/12/26...cs_30022525.php</a>

However photos published in the Thai Language newspaper Khaosod in its 26 December 2006 issue clearly show a train carriage at his resort home in Nakhon Ratchasima.

Once again, the NCCC was petitioned to investigate but did not.

We should that also not forget that when an NLA commitee sent members up there to investigate claims before their debate on the matter that security guards wwere only too happy to point out that they would be arrested if they entered the compound making it difficult to say the least to guage the veracity of the claims. Would that be the action of an obvious innocent person who wanted to clear himself of baseless claims?

[younghusband]

or...

when specifically targeted on a member of the forum 'juntophile' is best defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, rants, and/or for launching personal attacks, insulting, being hateful, useless criticism, name calling, swearing and other bad behavior or comments meant to incite anger.

What a strange response which by any normal criterion would be designated as a flame.Clearly a sensitive nerve has been touched here but please try and avoid personal attacks and concentrate, if you can, on the issues.If one saw a modicum of balance and willingness to criticise the current as well as the ancien regime. the use of the expression juntophile could be dropped.In the meantime, as your intemperate post demonstrates, the use of the word is very appropriate.

[sriracha john]

but please try and avoid personal attacks and concentrate, if you can, on the issues.

Indeed, please do... which, as a reminder, is the long-forgotten

65% Of Voters Ready To Sell Votes

[John K]

Yes SJ you are correct, the topic is drifting, so before the anchor chain gets tight let me help enlighten a few who may have lost the ability (or never had) to not bring on fights.

The people who you reefer to as pro junta or your newly invented word that still has no definition, are people who don’t look to place a preestablished label on something that does not quite fit the definition.

What I have been seeing is a group of people stuck on the word ‘junta’ that does not exactly fit the situation, but it is the closest word they can find. However rather that trying to define this new situation, they chose to label the people who refused to accept that inaccurate definition.

To summerize what happened that does not fit the definition of junta is as follows:

The Thai people including military, private citizens, politicians and more conducted a prolonged action against a corrupt man who was step by step dismantling the checks and balances required to maintain a democracy and consolidating power that was never meant to be consolidated. The intent of the action was to return Thailand to the people. That ongoing action came to a peek September 19, 2006 when some of the Thai citizens made use of military equipment and manpower to force the man out. To date every indication Thailand has been moving towards the goal of restoring the country to a condition prior to the dismantling of democracy done my the corrupt man and including a few upgrades in laws to avoid the same thing happening again in the future.

I think the definition ‘revolution’ more closely fits because it was not just the military who wanted that man out who was causing so much damage. Only the lesser educated could not see what was going on and they placed their trust in the hands of that serial liar.

Edited November 5, 2007 by John K