Read/write/speak thai

[joshua]

I was wondering how many foreigners on this forum can actually read/write/speak Thai either due to being in Thailand, their spouse, or just have had a vested interest in the language?

joshua

[PhillipJ]

I can speak fairly well, read menus, and write my name. Learned through working and socialising with Thais. Maybe this is a good topic for a poll.

[Eneukman]

I'm trying to learn just now - using the Linguaphone Basic Thai for the time being though I shall move on to the more advanced course shortly.

I think the only way to really improve your Thai is by actually speaking to locals when in Thailand. I find the tones very difficult to pick up at times on the CD's I have.

Alan

[tatom]

Joshua, I think many of us expats speak Thai.Those who live in Bangkok have the opportunity to go to schools to learn and those who live upcountry learn out of nessesity. I think some are just lazy and prefer to let the wife learn thier language.Whatever, just living in Thailand, one cant help but pick up some of the lingo. When I first moved to Issarn it was very difficult to learn the dialect but in a few years I picked it up. It was helpful that there arnt any English speakers around. As for reading and writing, I think very few ever learn. Just looking at all those wierd letters can be quite intimidating. I never planed to even attempt to learn to read Thai, but I noticed I was learning a few letters and small words without trying. Last year I deceided to give it a try and bought some books for little kids to learn the Thai alphabet and write simple words. With the help of my wife, in 2 months I knew the alphabet and was reading road signs, restaurant menues, etc.! No one was more surprized than me! I really encourage everyone to give it a try, it has made life much easier. No more asking little kids to read train schedules or which is the mens bathroom. Speaking the language will make the whole Thai experience so much better. Thai people tend to shy away from foreigners if they cant communicate but they are so friendly and happy to know you love thier country enough to learn thier language. Also, they are always willing to help you learn and to learn English from you. It really is fun, mistakes and all. Hope Ive been of help, Tom Salarak  Khon Kaen

[Edward B]

My guess is that most expats living here can read/write/speak thai. How bout a poll?

[mrentoul]

My guess is that most expats living here can read/write/speak thai. How bout a poll?

No, most *can't*. Most can't be bothered learning. Can't you tell, from the feeble replies to this post?

[joshua]

I personally am learning thai through the book series Thai For Beginners and Thai for intermediate learners that are made by Paibon Publishing. I have not used any other books besides a half-way decent thai-english english-thai dictionary, tho I will say that one should try and keep within a publisher or book series so as not to be confused by the myriad of pronounciation guides that each book uses. I study each day as much as I can and I have made flash cards for myself. Also, letters to friends in Thailand and sporadic phonecalls. I feel like I have learned very fast for not being in Thailand, trying to "immerse" myself in sorts, by using Thai with English as much as possible, especially when thinking while walking around. Honestly, aside from the tones, the language is not nearly as intimidating once you really dive head first.

Joshua

[mrentoul]

, aside from the tones, the language is not nearly as intimidating once you really dive head first.

You're right. It's not. But most people don't try.

[MaiChai]

Grammar, grammar, grammar. You can't learn Thai without learning some Thai grammar, which is harder than English grammar. I hit a brick wall on this because I did not realise the importance of grammar and because there was hardly any books on Thai grammar for English speakers. Situation is better now. Two good books on grammar exist now; one by David Smythe (forget its exact title), and the other called Thai Reference Grammar - The structure of spoken Thai by James Higbie and Snea Thinsan (the better of the two books). For intermediate learns (eg once you have built up a reasonable vocab, understand some basic grammar and have learnt basic reading and writing and don't need transliteration).

[keestha]

I tend to agree with mrentoul that the vast majority of the farang expats living in Thailand cannot speak Thai, leave alone read or write. They pick up a bit of the language, but because they dont actively study it, they never acquire any degree of fluency.

But then maybe my view is biased. Most of the expats I got in touch with during my distinguished career, were owners of guesthouses, restaurants, bars, travel agencies, diving schools and so on, or they were working as reps for tour agencies, and also many of them were simply retired but often still way under 60. Maybe other professional categories of expats contain a higher percentage of farangs who learned to speak Thai.

In my experience most farangs who are for instance running a restaurant depend on their Thai wife/gf for communication with their staff and  for dealings with Thai authorities. Quite a few of them even dont speak much English, but are nevertheless managing somehow. (still tempted to add: for as long as it goes).

Expats from India and Nepal on the other hand (yes, your beloved tailors) always seem to take the trouble to learn Thai.

[mrentoul]

Expats from India and Nepal on the other hand (yes, your beloved tailors) always seem to take the trouble to learn Thai.

Sometimes these are not expats at all, but Thai Indians. I know a bunch at work.

They speak Thai, because they were born here, along with Hindi and English.

Often they have all but forgotten how to read and write Thai, but still speak Thai well.

[MaiChai]

And keesta, what was your distinguished career; sounds interesting? Is keesta anything to do with Keesta the technology town outside Stockholm that is dominated by Ericcsons?

A couple of Bangladeshi's in my village have been there 20 years, can speak Thai but can't read/write. You get a lot of folks from the Indian sub continent who seem to manage to get into Thailand and then learn the language. There must be a lot of Indians who were born here and learned to read and write at Thai schools too. So we farangs aren't alone in the LOS's with our little problems!

[keestha]

Maichai,

To answer your questions: as far as my career in Thailand is concerned, I have long been active as a guesthouse, bar and restaurant owner, and the last couple of years I enjoy the somewhat more elevated status of bungalow resort owner, somewhere (still) a little bit off the beaten track at the coast in southern Thailand. For reasons of privacy and because I would never abuse a forum for advertisement purposes, I dont wanna go into any more details here. Back in my native country I was also working in the hospitality industry, it is interesting because you meet a lot of people.

As far as your second question is concerned: no, I dont have anything to do with the technology town Keesta in Sweden, switching on a microwave is about the most difficult technical task I generally speaking can accomplish successfully.

By the way, until you recently mentioned your wife I used to think you were the pretty woman whose picture always appears next to your posts, or, looking more closely at the picture, is that maybe your daughter?

Oh and if I also may ask you a question, very roughly in what part of Thailand is your village?

Since the thread is about speaking/reading Thai, one more remark on this subject......In 2000 I moved from Central to Southern Thailand, and then it was frustrating me that the people down here often didnt understand me if I asked something quite simple, and that I often didnt catch completely what they were saying. By now I am used to southern Thai, but still I sometimes notice the local people speaking the local dialect together, and then switching into the official central Thai when addressing me.

[simon43]

I feel that it is very important to learn Thai if you are going to live in the country, so that you gain a better understanding of the country, people, culture etc.  (And this applies to any country, not just Thailand...)

I've been learning Thai for about 12 weeks now, mostly self-taught but with prnounciation practice with my GF.  I'm trying to learn to speak, read and write the language.  Progress has been good and I can now hold basic conversations in Thai.  I also send my emails in Thai to my GF and can even manage to send text messages in Thai

Learning any language should not be seen as a chore! You should consider it as a natural path to follow when you live in the country.  (And this might cause some flames but I think the same should apply to anyone who comes to stay in the UK...)

In France you cannot get a residency permit unless you can pass a basic French language exam...perhaps the same requirement should exist in the UK or Thailand  

[LPCustom69]

Simon43, I couldn't agree with you more. If someone moves to a foreign country to live, they should learn at least basic language skills. Sounds like you have a problem with that in the UK, as we do in the US. I always like to learn a little bit of a new language for vacation, let alone to live there.

[MaiChai]

My avatar is a picture of my little girl whose makeup was overdone (IMHO) for a beauty contest she was entered for in the village.

I live near Sukhothai, the origin of the Thai culture (and there is some debate as whether this is in fact true).  Therefore I suppose Sukhothai people would be the purest Thainess you can get when its comes to ethicality and language? I make this a question as I don't know. Of course learning Thai round my village would make me sound like a country yokal to Bangkok people. I can confirm this as a farang friend in the village worked in Bangkok for a while and his Thai collegues called him a country boy because of his regional Thai accent!

Obviously central plains Thai is the offical Thai taught in schools, but southern, NE, etc, Thais will have their regional accents. Everyone will understand the offical central Thai, as that will be used on TV, and be taught at school, etc. I have noticed differences in accent just from listening to Thai country music; Eesan and southern Thai are very different to Bangkok Thai. I have been told that Bangkok Thai is much more politer and neutral than country Thai dialecs, which can sound a little abrupt, to the point and lacking joining words (good grammar?).

[Pinkster]

To the original post, i doubt 1 in 20 of all non thais (excluding any from the sub continent) can read or write Thai. Some can communicta eusing very basic thai.

This is not a criticism. Thai is an extremely difficult language to learn, one which need great time and effort. Many many living here would find it very difficult to find the time to truly learn to read, write and speak thai.

Of the topic, anybody wanting to live in the uk (non uk birth) SHOULD be able to pass a strict english exam before being allowed to live there. English is such a universal language i can not accept that those wanting to take up residence in uk cannot speak english.

If they cannot, and more importantly, are not willing to learn, then send back where they came from.  

[wolf5370]

If they cannot, and more importantly, are not willing to learn, then send back where they came from.

A little extreme I think. Many farang in the UK have Thai (or other non-English speaking) wives - I know loads - all bar very few of these wives can speak passable English; most of these can read and write too. Few though could pass a 'strict English Exam' - how many in Expats could pass a 'strict Thai Exam'. Most councils (local government) in the UK offer free English courses to those on resident visas or 'to be resident' visas (Marriage/fiance visas etc) - I think it should be mandatory that they attend these courses and the residency withheld until they can speak, read and write to a competant level - visas could be extended until then, but no residency given.

PS: My wife attended these courses for 3 years - she's been here for more than 5 now. The Thai population in the UK seem very willing to take up these places. In my wife's college, there where about 20 people per class - several classes at the same and different levels. Of these there were about 6 Thai's (all female), 3 Chinese (all female), an Egyptial girl, 2 Sri Lankan girls and the rest where made up of Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Indian, South American and some Eastern Europeans (there was never more than 2 males!); by far the biggest representation was by Thai females - I wonder how stacks up against Immigration figures?

Also, I was under the understanding you did indeed have to pass a quite strict Thai exam for citizenship of LOS (dual nationality etc). Including reading and writing to a good degree (includionmg news paper excerpts etc).

[joshua]

Pinkster, did you know that English is the hardest language to learn? If you did you may not have made such a crude post. I do, however, agree that people should have to take a test to gain citizenship, how "strict" it is I am not really sure. Think of like this: Lets say moving to another country is the equavalent to swimming. Now, your gf/bf/wife/husband is equal to a floatation device. Your poor communication skills are the doggy paddle. Why not take the time to learn to really swim? You will enjoy the water better and be able to do more, thats right, go right on out into the deep end!

Anyway, I have not found Thai to be all that difficult. I think the idea of tones is quite intimidating but any type of sincere effort will put you straight on the path to being able to communicate well. I just dont understand how you could live in a country and  and not learn the language, if for nothing think of the conveniance? I know by the end of 3 weeks in Thailand that I wish I could have spoken better with my family, and to just everyone I came across but my lack of language was a wall.

To me, English isnt the universal language as much as it is the business language. Its too bad people think money is universal happiness. Anyway, enough of my chatter. I hope i didnt step on any toes, I apologize in advance.

Joshua

[Pinkster]

Ok, my term 'strict' might have been wrong, english is not my birth language, maybe i went over board there.

The point i was tring to make was this, anybody wanting to make a residence in England should be willing to LEARN the language. If they are not, then what are there motives to stay?

[joshua]

The point i was tring to make was this, anybody wanting to make a residence in England should be willing to LEARN the language. If they are not, then what are there motives to stay?

I agree, so why are there so many english-only farang in Thailand? Makes one wonder...

[wolf5370]

May be it has to do with the clustering principle (ok I made the term up) - most farangs live in their communities. England, apparently, is the most cosmopolitan place on earth with more languages spoken than anywhere else per head capita. In the UK the 'clustering principle' exists mostly with Asians (also happens with Afro-Caribbean, but they speak English anyway) - many never learn to speak English because they are not forced to by either State or society (Immersion). Likewise, many farangs club together when living abroad and make-do by only communicating properly with each other and not getting beyond rudimentary language skills and compensate with body language (pointing) and  relying on more fluent associates (their wives). In Spain there are whole areas like little towns of expats – most speak mainly English and rudimentary Spanish – these ‘towns’ are given nicknames like ‘little Gravesend’ and ‘little Essex’ due to their almost complete occupancy.

I would bet that those that speak fluent Thai (read/write etc) are almost completely either immersed (i.e. live in a village or outside a farang community of any size) or have been here so long that they where, at some point in the past, akin to those in the former ‘group’ (i.e. lives outside a sizeable farang community). Humans are by and large economical with their effort (er…lazy) so will only do what is necessary. There are exceptions and I take my hat off to them.

[NathanV23]

I was first here as an exchange student when I was 15 for a year. Lived with a Thai family and went to all Thai high school in a small village in the South. Since then, I've been in Thailand for another 3 years or so, mostly only with Thais. I still am not fluent, but I do okay. I can't follow a Thai movie on TV, but I can run my business and talk to friends on the phone just fine. Also, lately I can follow the subtitles on HBO, Cinemax etc.

One thing is for sure though, it wasn't easy. Even after the first year of basically being immersed in the langauge, people couldn't understand my accent and there was still many simple phrases I didn't know or simply couldn't pronounce. But slowly you get the hang of it and add vocabulary. Maybe in another 3 years I might be fluent, but still to speak politics and economics etc. you need to seriously study.

[NathanV23]

One more thing, if you're living somewhere where a dialect is spoken most of the time (not Central Thai), then it makes everything twice as hard. The language you are studying in your book and listening to on CD's is not the same language you hear when you walk out the door.

Usually people will switch to Central Thai when they speak to you directly unless you are really out in the boonies in which case, you more or less have to learn two langauages (which I never managed).

[Pinkster]

May be it has to do with the clustering principle (ok I made the term up) - most farangs live in their communities. England, apparently, is the most cosmopolitan place on earth with more languages spoken than anywhere else per head capita. In the UK the 'clustering principle' exists mostly with Asians (also happens with Afro-Caribbean, but they speak English anyway) - many never learn to speak English because they are not forced to by either State or society (Immersion). Likewise, many farangs club together when living abroad and make-do by only communicating properly with each other and not getting beyond rudimentary language skills and compensate with body language (pointing) and  relying on more fluent associates (their wives). In Spain there are whole areas like little towns of expats – most speak mainly English and rudimentary Spanish – these ‘towns’ are given nicknames like ‘little Gravesend’ and ‘little Essex’ due to their almost complete occupancy.

I would bet that those that speak fluent Thai (read/write etc) are almost completely either immersed (i.e. live in a village or outside a farang community of any size) or have been here so long that they where, at some point in the past, akin to those in the former ‘group’ (i.e. lives outside a sizeable farang community). Humans are by and large economical with their effort (er…lazy) so will only do what is necessary. There are exceptions and I take my hat off to them.

England, apparently, is the most cosmopolitan place on earth with more languages spoken than anywhere else per head capita.

I agree, i believe i have read this elsewhere.

In the UK the 'clustering principle' exists mostly with Asians (also happens with Afro-Caribbean, but they speak English anyway) - many never learn to speak English because they are not forced to by either State or society (Immersion)

In my experiance of uk, many more Asians DO speak English than do not, in addition to the birth language.

If a person would want to migrate into UK and fully immerse themselves and bring something extra to the uk, and not be a burden on the society in an economic way, then how can they do this if they do not speak the language?

If there is skills gap, then wonderfull, allow non uk people to come and fill the skill shortage, but if they cannot,,and are not willing to learn language, then how can they fully realise there skill?

[wolf5370]

In my experiance of uk, many more Asians DO speak English than do not, in addition to the birth language.

Agree Pinkster, most of these I would hazard a guess are second+ generation, or Indian/Hong Kong (i.e. English has a significant historical relationship with the country - I have a friend and business partner who is Indian. He was educated in India and lived there until he was in his mid-20's. He was taught in English (that's 'taught IN English' not 'taught English') at school from primary school (5-11 y/o) as are most Indian children).

The Asians I was refering too are those clustered around parts of the major cities - for example the East End of London (Brick Lane), where the whole area is primarily Pakistani and Bangladeshi. The young speak English - school makes this necessary. The business people speak English. The old, and there are many elderly, speak only their own languages.

I believe this is too in the US also with the Hispanic populous.

In the UK the young must learn English to make a decent living. In Thailand, the farang, does not. S/He can works as a teacher, with computers, exports, journalism, etc, ect without needing a word of Thai - it help, yeah, but s/he can make do nicely thank you.

[Edited to lower the amount of typos]

[samuisam]

This is my favorite program for learning thai - first demo lesson is free runs on PC, and speaks the words to you.  Also has literal translations - word for word.

http://www.j-m-s.de/sw/thai111.htm#English

Also the Bangkok Post has a good book on it.

I speak OK Thai, and read the tiniest bit.

I have found that many Thais don't like it when they know I can speak the language, sometimes I pretend I don't.

[MaiChai]

Some useful links for learning Thai:

http://www.thailandguidebook.com/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi

http://www.thai-language.com/

http://www.learningthai.com/

[goofy]

To Maichai

its called Kista not Keestha the town you mentioned is indeed in Sweden.

Cheers

[WISteve]

MaiChai,

 Thanks for the reference to the two books.  I just ordered them both on Amazon.com for just under $51 US.  For the benefit of others, the complete names are:

--Thai Reference Grammar:  The Structure of Spoken Thai

  by James Higbie

--Thai:  An Essential Grammar (Routiedge Grammars)

  by David Smyth

 I'll look forward to working on them and the language. I'll try to be a good little farang and show them the minimum respect of learning their language.

Take care,

WISteve