Toyota Hilux Is Highly Dangerous According To The Swedish Motoring Magazine "teknikens Värld"

[Kaysfeld]

First, let's keep things in perspective - "mortal danger" is a relative concept. In Thailand half a dozen people in the open pickup bed is not considered a danger, so I doubt Thai would consider a slim chance of flipping over in a Vigo to be truly dangerous.

You are right it is a relative concept, seen in the eyes of a Scandinavian.

When you look at the mortality rate in the Thai traffic, many Scandinavian would probably say that it was mortally dangerous to drive in any vehicle in Thailand.

In Denmark it just made big news when the yearly mortality rate had gone up to nearly 400 dead per year. In Thailand this number was more that 12.000 (2006) dead from more that 110.000 accidents with a population about 12 times greater. And 2006 was a good year, down 2400 dead from the year 2003’s numbers.

[Plus]

Do you think Toyota would do something about this? Please, keep us updated as most of us can't follow "Technical vorld" in Swedish.

[kenjin]

Glad I read this, I was decideding on a D-Max Hilander or the Prerunner. Its really put me off now. My wife will be driving the truck occasionally with our child, she's a new driver, theres no way I would feal comfortable letting her drive that Toyota.

I am finding it hard to understand why Toyota are not acting on the test results.

Everyone here knows how dangerous driving is over here and a truck unable to handle a manouver like that in the dry ...oh dear!!. Even if a dog run out in the road (which they do all the time), your first natural reaction is to swerve even without thinking abou it, let alone all the motorbikes, samlors, taxis, etc...

I wouldn't touch one now with a barge pole.. I`m going with the Isuzu

[madjbs]

If you like to make swerving maneuvers like that instinctively just for a soi dog then you really shouldn’t be behind a wheel. Don’t forget about the poor motorcyclists you have just flattened in the process. Also I would say that a new driver wouldn’t be able to pull off a move like that even in the Mitsubishi, they would most likely end up plowing into the side of the road.

[Kaysfeld]

If you like to make swerving maneuvers like that instinctively just for a soi dog then you really shouldn’t be behind a wheel. Don’t forget about the poor motorcyclists you have just flattened in the process. Also I would say that a new driver wouldn’t be able to pull off a move like that even in the Mitsubishi, they would most likely end up plowing into the side of the road.

It is probably thrue that it is not worth the risk taking evasive action in a pickup to save the life of a dog. But what do you do if it is a little boy or girl running out in front of you?

Do you just plow through without trying to avoid the collision? I think not.

Therefore even a pickup should be able to take evasive action.

[Kaysfeld]

Do you think Toyota would do something about this? Please, keep us updated as most of us can't follow "Technical vorld" in Swedish.

In a news reportage on the National Swedish TV channel SVT about the Toyota Hilux (Shown on "Aktuellt och Rapport" 30 of October 2007), the Toyota rep. in Sweden is cited for saying that he don't understand how this could happen, and they will investigate further.

The news clip can be found here: http://svt.se/svt/play/video.jsp?a=955354

for the ones that understand Swedish.

Lets hope something positive will come from this investigation.

[kenjin]

If you like to make swerving maneuvers like that instinctively just for a soi dog then you really shouldn’t be behind a wheel. Don’t forget about the poor motorcyclists you have just flattened in the process. Also I would say that a new driver wouldn’t be able to pull off a move like that even in the Mitsubishi, they would most likely end up plowing into the side of the road.

I don't want to blow my own trumpet but.......FYI, I was in in the RCT, Royal Corps of Transport for 3 years, then after leaving the Army went on to drive 16 wheelers from the UK to and around east and west Europe for over 10 years before I got into I.T. I reccon I have a more than fair amount of knowledge about driving large vehicles abroad...

Now what i said is, its a reaction to swerve, and BTW, you should be checking your mirrors every few seconds, so you should know if there are any other vehicles near by. So if you do have to swerve for whatever reason, you don't excpect your vehicle to roll like that, especially when the driving hazards are so tretcherous over in here Thailand. Plus a new driver could indeed pull of a manouver like that, all be it unintentionally, then end up on its roof??

There are too many hazards over here and Thai drivers are without doubt the worst drivers I have ever, ever come across, coupled with a dangerous car?? well lets just hope that it doesn't cause too many fatalities. Toyota has a saftey comitment to thier customers, no matter how how large or small...we are talking about peoples lifes.

BTW on another note, did anyone catch the Pattaya News a few weeks back, that Thai guy drove his pick-up right on top of the Dolphin roundabout waterfall - Now thats was some manouver , mind you he was absolutley smashed out of his head

Edited November 9, 2007 by kenjin

[luckyboy]

The Triton was launch in Thailand without this ESP or ASTC feature followed by other asian countries with the same spec.which is on par to other makes except for one or two airbags more. It may have been an add-on feature for the european market to meet their safety standard. If that is the case those ealier models release and sold in Asia still remain unsafe and anyone can just check it out if the current specs has this feature in Thailand where this Triton is produce. If it's just upgraded recently then definately it's got one more ace-up against other makes but I don't think it's there in Thailand and if not why? Anyone in Thailand can confirm? The triton's been on the market for more than two years.

As a side note: Thais precious their life as the Swedes do. The Triton may be a safer car to drive but the Triton don't have this feature in Thailand so it's different.

[Thaiboxer]

Pickup trucks the world over are not as safe and don't handle as well as cars. They're light in the rear end (designed for hauling heavy objects) and have a high center of gravity. If you try driving them as you would a high performance car, all the safety features in the world aren't going to make much of a difference!

[Plus]

I believe the first thing they warn you about in the manual is to NOT execute maneuvers like that.

I would be also wary of drivers who, like Kenjin, think that they can do it safely in Isuzus.

Vigo might have failed the test, but I bet Isuzu's tipping point is just 5km/h or so faster.

[Neeranam]

I'd rather buy a tuk tuk than a truck. Ugly creatures.

[kenjin]

I believe the first thing they warn you about in the manual is to NOT execute maneuvers like that.

I would be also wary of drivers who, like Kenjin, think that they can do it safely in Isuzus.

Vigo might have failed the test, but I bet Isuzu's tipping point is just 5km/h or so faster.

OMG, I give up with some of you people, I really do!!. Where did I state that I can complete this manouver safley in an Isuzu??I never said anything like that! By default that manouver is very, very dangerous and its not one that I would attempt in any circumstance. All I`m saying is that a manouver 'could' crop up in a normal dyas driving, say if a motorbike pulled out of a juntion in front or a child ran out of the road.

I honestly don't understand how anyone can defend that video at all, yes pick-ups are inherently dangerous by design and are a work vehicle not a racing car but the fact of the matter is, we do drive at more that 40km an hour and motorcycles do pull out on us. I would just like to feal comfortable knowing that my truck can handle a dangerous situation.

I did test drive the Toyota Vigo yesterday, got to say I loved it just the stability is off putting I may go for a lower version

[Neeranam]

yes pick-ups are inherently dangerous by design and are a work vehicle not a racing car

Exactly - I can understand window cleaners, buffalo farmers and building contractors buying one but farang expats!?

I saw one in Korat with a "ham noi" sticker on the back !

Edited November 9, 2007 by Neeranam

[luckyboy]

And also Triton and Hilux is competing for global market. Simple and plain to understand this is afterall commercial competition, tomorrow Toyota may announce a newer and safer feature superior to the one in triton and there it goes again. Anyway not because I'm driving a Hilux, I aslo like the triton and also believe it's good car and definately agree to the test shown.But when it comes to buying one there's more to consider than just this, that's why some vehicle with a poor test result can outsell the ones recommended. For those who've never used one would never understand, practicality, durabilty, comfort and safety are physical experience that actually sets the standard for that psychological influence over a vehicle and that peace of mind requires long years to build up. So there your decision goes, may it be called a brainwash or following the trend and at the end of the day why are so many of you drinking COKE ?

[Plus]

Where did I state that I can complete this manouver safley in an Isuzu??I never said anything like that!

No, you didn't, but it influenced your decision in choosing a truck. I'm saying the difference is negligible by Thai standards.

If you went to Isuzu Highlander instead, or Triton without ESC fitted in Sweden, it would be clear overreacting.

I understand that you are now interested in lower 2wd Vigo that should be more stable than any of the high suspension trucks. Valid point, I suppose, but I've never heard of anyone in Thailand choosing lower trucks because they are safer.

Actually my comment had little to do with the validity of your point - it's the fact that you are think so differently makes your behavior unpredictable on the road, ... but I do apologize, I didn't mean to offend.

[cm-happy]

Do any other consumer/safety publications, that perform independent testing, through out the world concur with the Swedish results?? Or is it possible specific to Toyota trucks manufactured or imported into Sweden?

[Kaysfeld]

Pickup trucks the world over are not as safe and don't handle as well as cars. They're light in the rear end (designed for hauling heavy objects) and have a high center of gravity. If you try driving them as you would a high performance car, all the safety features in the world aren't going to make much of a difference!

I totally disagree.

A ESC/ESP will greatly improve safety, specially on a pickup.

It is true that it will never make it as safe as a real car, but it will make it much safer in turns.

Even a high center of gravity vehicle can be made much safer with these systems.

Modern pickups look modern and good on the outside.

Why must all that really matter for safety still be at the stone age level?

Should we really accept this in 2007?

Pickups still use leafsprings as they did when a vehicle only had between 1 & 4 horsepower.

Why ? Because this mean much lower tax in Thailand.

A modern spring system can be made to take the same kind of load, while greatly improve comfort and drivability.

[Kaysfeld]

Do any other consumer/safety publications, that perform independent testing, through out the world concur with the Swedish results?? Or is it possible specific to Toyota trucks manufactured or imported into Sweden?

Don't belive for a second that cars imported to Sweden is more unsafe than the ones sold in Thailand.

In Sweden safety is important to most buyer, in Thailand often not.

If anything the cars sold in Sweden have more safety equipment than the ones sold Thailand.

I don't think that many, if any, motoring magazines testdrive cars as thorough as "Teknikens Värd".

Where do you see a grouptest of 6 cars that take up 22 full pages?

[Kaysfeld]

Vigo might have failed the test, but I bet Isuzu's tipping point is just 5km/h or so faster.

Those 5km/h might just save your life.

[Thaiboxer]

Despite what I said regarding pickups and their safety, I'd still be happy to own one. They get good mileage, can withstand the nasty roads and are some of the best vehicles in proportion to their prices. Vehicle prices here are outrageous...even a small city car is expensive which is one reason why so many folks go for trucks.

A pickup can be safe if it's driven like a pickup and with more care taken than when driving around corners/obstacles in a car and I do agree that pickups are MUCH safer than they used to be. However, they're still pickups and the driver must understand their physical dimensions/limitations when it comes to driving them.

[luckyboy]

In a group test of pickup trucks the Toyota Hilux failed to safely do the evasive manoeuvre the Swedish Motoring magazine "Teknikens Värld" do on all cars during testing.

This was the same Motoring magazine that forced Mercedes to change the design of the A type 10 years ago, because it failed the same test.

See the video from the test on this page:

http://www.teknikensvarld.se/tvtv/071031-toyota-hilux/

Is seems like it is safer to just go straight on with this car in an emergency. Evasive manoeuvre can maybe be even more dangerous, unless you have extreme driving skills.

It is a shame that many Thais care more about the looks of their car, than about safety.

They simply prefer large alloys and crome to ESP and other safety systems.

In Thailand only the rich drive safe cars.

‘In Thailand only the rich drive safe cars.”

This remark is not true to the Thais.

Driving a pickup is a tradition here in Thailand. No boss is shy to drive one or feel shame to be driven in one. In the Thai community no one would dare judge the status of a person driving a pickup. It’s a practical vehicle driven daily by people from all walks of life especially those who have estate and plantations and we don’t call these people poor, they are much better off than the ones that work in town and drive a sedan (financially)

In some countries it might be true that when you drive a pickup, you look degrading and in those kinds of society even the poorest people will have to decorate themselves even behind heaps of debts. You must be a foreigner accept the above remark

[Neeranam]

No boss is shy to drive one or feel shame to be driven in one

Maybe in rural Roi Et or Sakhon Nakhon.

Certainly not true in Bankok.

[bow]

You’re correct; it most likely isn’t just the tyres. What I was saying is if the tyres were less grippy i.e harder rubber (not more expensive) then it would be less likely to tip up. You can make any car tip up and roll if you but wide enough grippy tyres on. Toyota should investigate the problem but to be honest its a pickup and in Europe it still isn’t common to see families driving round in a hilux. The translation sounds a bit scare mongering although it could be the translation you used.

It is true that not many families use these cars in Europe, but in Thailand they do to a large degree, why I think this information is extra usefull in this forum.

All cars in such test are either supplied by the official imported or by one of their dealers. Why should they put on wrong tires for a test performed by Swedens most recognized Motoring Magazine.

I think the translation is quite right and sound is as in the Swedish test.

Is there any Swedish out there that can confirm me in this?

The translation is correct.

[Kaysfeld]

You didn't get my point.

I didn't say that you look degrading in a pickup.

My point was that only rich can buy cars with the right safety equipment.

The cheap sedans from Toyota & Hondo etc. doesn't have this equipment.

[xerostar]

Police in Western Australia have warned of the increasing

number of serious accidents with SUVs.

They refer to the high centre of gravity of most SUVs

and the tendency for them to roll over easily.

So it's not just Thais who have this problem.

Added to this is the road-side obstacles - in WA it's the big trees

or light poles along the sides of roads waiting to stop a runaway

vehicle. The other hazard is the slippery ball-bearing-like gravel

that catches many unwary foreigners and locals alike.

In Thailand it's often the deep gullys and sloping apron on each

side of the road which must make a rollover more lethal, besides

the habit of carrying the whole family in the back of the pickups.

Some busy roads have guard rails on both sides, but many don't.

I wish they would place more signs warning of the dangers.

Many Thais seem to be blissfully unaware of what can happen.

An "accident" to them is simply "bad luck" and nobody talks

about the possibilty of prevention!

.

.

[wilko]

ALL picks are inherently less safe than a family sedan/saloon.

It is common sense.

[Kaysfeld]

Do you think Toyota would do something about this? Please, keep us updated as most of us can't follow "Technical vorld" in Swedish.

Translation from ”Teknikens Värld” news:

Toyota stops the sales of the Hilux with 16” wheels in Europe.

After “Teknikens Värld” revealed the Toyota Hilux dangerous behavior in the elk/mouse test, the sale of Hilux with 16” wheels in whole of Europe. – Under certain conditions the tires lift even for us, says Michel Koch, product information manager with Toyota Europe.

In “Teknikens Värld” number 23, we tested sex of the markets most popular pickups. In our revealing evasive maneuver test – the elk/mouse test – the Toyota Hilux was on the way to turn over. But we managed just in time to get the car down again by steering our of the test track.

The Hilux competitors all managed without turnover tendencies. Best was Mitsubishi L200 which was the only pickup equipped with an anti spin system (ESP).

Since we publishing the test, the test result have spread to a number of different countries. This because the Hilux is sold in almost the whole world. “Teknikens Värld”s reputation and good name have made media’s from New Zealand to parts of the Middle East, Iceland, Russia and Norway; take up the news in a big way, just to count a few countries.

Since we discovered the Hilux dangerous characteristics, we have continuous exchange information with Toyota. The car company has taken the result seriously and we naturally want their car buyers to feel safe. Now Toyota chooses to stop the sale of the Hilux cars equipped with 16 inch wheels.

– We have repeated our tests, taken part of your magazines results and tested with your conditions for the elk test. Under certain circumstance we felt that the wheels can lift in an evasive maneuver. Not at all as powerful as for you, but serious enough, says Michel Koch, product information manager from Toyota Europe.

Under our elk test with the Hilux shooed with 15 inches, we also discovered worrying characteristics.

– We don’t question your test data or the way you did the test. But we don’t consider that the 15 inch version behave dangerously, says Michel Koch from Toyota Europe.

Toyota in Japan has since “Teknikens Värld”s test results were published, constantly tested and investigated the Hilux. These tests will continue, confirms Michel Koch. Teknikens Värld’s test team will also, together with Toyota, do new elk tests to investigate the car further.

The original article in Swedish:

http://www.teknikensvarld.se/nyheter/07111...valta/index.xml

[Somtamnication]

I think mine is male, as the shift stick is quite long and shifts......quite firm, yet flexible. Wonder what the female version of the Hilux is? Anyone know?

"we tested sex of the markets most popular pickups"

[Plus]

No boss is shy to drive one or feel shame to be driven in one

Maybe in rural Roi Et or Sakhon Nakhon.

Certainly not true in Bankok.

I don't know of anyone DRIVEN in a pickup but lots of small businessmen don't feel any shame in driving them themselves. Just what size of boss do you have in mind? Finance companies in Silom or distributors of chicken feed in Minburi?

[wilko]

The hilux is called Vigo over here...as far as I'm aware no pick-up or even a sedan is fitted with EPS or is it even available on most models....it has been shown to be a great life saver...but it also costs.

picks are the lowest common denominator when it comes to 4 wheel transport and are inherently less safe to the occupants AND other road users.

I own one

I'm also aware of it's limitations and fallibilities, and try to drive accordingly.

If you believe you are less vulnerable in a pick you are kidding yourself and are an increased risk to other road users.