Chiangmai Versus Bangkok For Retirement

[camerata]

It's likely that in a few years I'll be retiring in penury after spending most of my working life in Thailand, and therefore not eligible for a pension. That means I won't be able to afford my reasonably priced rented condo in the centre of Bangkok anymore. The options would seem to be move to Bangkok's cheaper suburbs or to Chiangmai. I've only been to Chiangmai once in the 70s, once in the 80s and once last year, but I like the place and the friendly people. However, I don't know much about living there.

What are the features that make CM a better place to retire than Bangkok? I have PR, so visa stuff isn't a problem. I don't drive in Bangkok because I live near a BTS station. I do appreciate the good medical facilities in Bangkok, shops like Villa, UBC cable TV and decent ADSL access, but the place has zero charm these days and the suburbs are boring.

Convince me that Chiangmai is better!

[PeaceBlondie]

I cannot think of anything essential that Bangkok has that Chiang Mai lacks. Other than two very dusty months of the year our air is probably cleaner, our streets less congested. Mountains where you can live at the foot. I got better medical care here than in Bangkok; it's generally as good as BKK if you know where to go. You can be ten minutes from the city center and ten from the countryside.

[Jingthing]

I rejected Chiang Mai because of the extreme air pollution but if your only choices are Bangkok or Chiang Mai, there is no contest for retirement, Chiang Mai is a much better fit. Not as fast paced as Bangkok and you have those mountain views.

[meadish_sweetball]

If the choice is only between Chiang Mai and Bangkok I think Chiang Mai wins hands down except for the facts that Bangkok is more of an aviation hub and that Bangkok nightlife is more varied and vivid.

If you live downtown in Chiang Mai it is easy to get around by walking and catching songthaews. A bicycle is not a bad idea either. Good for health and if you are fairly healthy it is a quick mode of transport too as you can cruise through the traffic jams. One of my friends is a bike fiend, and when we go across town individually, me in a car and him on a bicycle, he sometimes gets there faster than I do...

I spent one year in Bangkok and managed to learn how to get around with ease, but still could not see myself living there longterm. It's much better to go there for 3-4 days of shopping, sightseeing, eating, drinking - whatever floats your canoe, and then return to the relative calm of Chiang Mai.

Good health care is probably more prevalent in Bangkok, but just like PB says, by doing some research and consulting with other people, you will learn where to go and who to see to get the same level in Chiang Mai.

Just as you say, CM people are also more friendly than Bangkokians in general. This will probably be true for a while more, at least until half of Bangkok has moved up here.

[JuniorExPat]

Go south, always south, the south is so much better . . .

JxP

[camerata]

I rejected Chiang Mai because of the extreme air pollution but if your only choices are Bangkok or Chiang Mai, there is no contest for retirement, Chiang Mai is a much better fit. Not as fast paced as Bangkok and you have those mountain views.

How bad is the air pollution in CM? Is this a rush-hour thing? I already got bronchitis and damaged my lungs from walking home from work every day in Bangkok, so I have to be a bit careful.

Yes, I like mountains and rivers. I was never that keen on the beach.

[Jingthing]

I rejected Chiang Mai because of the extreme air pollution but if your only choices are Bangkok or Chiang Mai, there is no contest for retirement, Chiang Mai is a much better fit. Not as fast paced as Bangkok and you have those mountain views.

How bad is the air pollution in CM? Is this a rush-hour thing? I already got bronchitis and damaged my lungs from walking home from work every day in Bangkok, so I have to be a bit careful.

Yes, I like mountains and rivers. I was never that keen on the beach.

Reports are it is SHOCKINGLY BAD for a few months a year. Not related to rush hours. Burning I think. People stay at home and leave the city if they can. If you already have lung disease I would skip Chiang Mai or be prepared to take very long vacations out during the wheezing season.

[lannarebirth]

If it your intention to live in an urban environment, I think Bangkok has more to offer, but at much higher prices. What's great about Chiang Mai is that there is so much natural beauty, very nearby, which is accessible. It is also pretty darn cheap to live here.

[Jingthing]

Please don't groan but Pattaya is getting better. It is offering many more urban attractions, especially in the food and restaurant department, and it has cool ocean breezes which are very pleasant. As far as chemical pollution, it is not that clean, but I think a better choice than Chiang Mai or Bangkok for people with lung conditions (like me). Also, for a Bangkok lover, it is just down the road.

Edited November 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

Jingthing's last post ends by saying that Pattaya is just down the road from BKK. One disadvantage of CMai is that it takes about ten hours by car to get there, and if you include the waiting periods at the airports, takes quite a long time even by plane to and from BKK. We avoid that by avoiding trips to BKK.

[mcgriffith]

No place is paradise, we all know that, And certain places offer more speciality items that might not be available elsewhere. So with a great sense of chagrin and dismay, I will note for our Bangkok and Pattaya friends who are considering a move here, that we do not have here in Chiang Mai:

1) A Siam Paragon, where the nouveau riche strut their stuff buying Piaget watches

2) Incessant motorcades of Very Important Politicos

3) Expressway shakedowns by the BIB

4) Unbearable dry heat, followed by unbearable humid heat, year round

5) Rents that are the equivalent of a house mortgage payment in the West

6) A view of big concrete in most directions

If you would seriously consider moving to CM; you will be missing all of the above....

Like Nancy Reagan said: "Just Say No"

But if you INSIST, come for a visit. Stay a week or so and check it out. I guarantee you won't be going back to that hel_hole you call home....

PS But if you come up right now, be sure to bring a jacket, and wear socks with shoes. It is cold crisp weather,; the mountains are shrouded in fog, and the flowers are blooming......naw, you wouldn't like it

[Dr. G]

If you have bronchial problems then you should avoid CM

during the burning season.

g

[mcgriffith]

I will agree with Dr. G on this. During the burning season (Feb-March) it can be unpleasant for people sensitive to particulate matter. And last year was what could be termed a "Perfect Storm" of very unpleasant air quality, much of it due to unusual weather patterns, forest fires in Burma and Laos that were uncontrolled, etc.

The irony of this, is that if you have serious asthma and/or bronchial problems, you should probably not be living in the hot and humid tropics at all. I have a good friend here, who has lived here in CM for about 8 years, who is moving to Phuket. Wants to be by the ocean, is a surfer dude, likes the fresh sea air, etc. He is asthmatic, and has to take meds here when it is not good air quality. So he goes to Phuket for an extended visit, etc. Ends up in the hospital 'cause he had an attack 2 days after his return here.....I think it was a combination of the change of climate, his travel, etc. When he got back here, the air quality was GOOD with less than 40 ppm on the Thai gov't website. I am not a doctor, and don't presume to give anyone advice, but if you have lung/bronchial issues I don't think CM is any worse than any major urban center in the West....just my opinion. Move to the cold dry mountains of Colorado, or Peru, etc. if this is a hot button issue for you.....

[Jingthing]

Chiang Mai has very high rates of respiratory disease and mortality. One of those not so secret secrets.

[Wizzard of Oz]

What are the features that make CM a better place to retire than Bangkok? I have PR, so visa stuff isn't a problem. I don't drive in Bangkok because I live near a BTS station. I do appreciate the good medical facilities in Bangkok, shops like Villa, UBC cable TV and decent ADSL access, but the place has zero charm these days and the suburbs are boring.

Convince me that Chiangmai is better!

Normally I'd say stay away, but you are obv not the standard wanky phalang.

-People are actually friendly here. It feels like a small town, while having plenty of stuff like restaurants, entertainment, etc like in a bigger city.

-It's crazy cheap here. Thai people who come here from bkk even think its nutso cheap here.

-The city is fairly small you can get from anywhere around the city to anywhere else around the city in 10-20 mins; and there is only a bit of traffic around 5-6pm weeknights and some places on friday/saturday evening, but compared to bangkok you will not even notice a traffic issue.

- The weather is nice. It's a pretty awesome temperature most of the year, and is only crazy hot for a couple of months a year.

- CM has a moat, so is obv the most awesome place to be during songkran =P

Main problems are:

-Pollution - maybe worse than bkk actually

-A very high per cent of the phalang here are old - and I mean OOOOLLLLDDDDD.

-A very high per cent of the phalang here are wanke_rs, but I assume that is all of thailand.

[lannarebirth]

I'm not much of a city person in general, but I have to say, if one wishes to live in a city, Chiang Mai is hard to beat. You can walk or ride a bike just about anywhere you need to go, and song taews and new public buses (mostly empty) are available when you need to get outside the city center. There are large public markets scattered in all quarters of the city and western style "hyper markets" out on the nearby ringroads. It is a 20 minure drive to the foothills and only another 20 minutes to get into the mountains. Even quicker if you opt for Doi Suthep. Houses are fairly reasonable to rent, some reasonable to buy. Land prices all over the map, but some very beautiful land can be had nearby at reasonable prices if one doesn't have a chanote fixation.

Speaking for myself, I've traveled to 57 countries, lived, as an adult, in 5 for longer than 18 months each (3 much longer), and I've never found anywhere I've loved as much. I'm done moving on.

Edited November 4, 2007 by lannarebirth

[Jingthing]

I would agree that Chiang Mai is the best place in Thailand to retire to, but if the bad air is killing you, it can be a deal killer for some.

[mcgriffith]

But Jingthing, we DO have Bangkok-style meter taxis, and limosines, and a bus system, and song taews......

[Jingthing]

But Jingthing, we DO have Bangkok-style meter taxis, and limosines, and a bus system, and song taews......

Your city was my top choice. No need to defend it.

[chiang mai]

Have to agree that the exceptionally poor air quality in CM during the burning season is a massive negative, that's why we moved to Phuket after living in CM for four years. Some say the burning season only last one or two months, I say it lasts a lot longer. Burning season aside, CM is surrounded by mountains and when the wind blows in the right direction and the sun is shining it can be magical. When the wind doesn't blow hard enough the basin effect captures all the pollution from sources other than burning and it's nasty. Too bad really, it could be a great place to live and now after six months in Phuket my life here is much much more pleasant.

[Ulysses G.]

Some say the burning season only last one or two months, I say it lasts a lot longer.

If there is nothing wrong with you already, one barely notices 'burning season' or pollution in general in Chiang Mai. People with breathing problems apparently do. Last year was extremely unusual because of weather conditions, and the smoke really only bothered me for 3 or 4 days, but the media blew the whole thing way out of proportion and really screwed up tourism for a long time after things had returned to normal. .

[chiang mai]

Some say the burning season only last one or two months, I say it lasts a lot longer.

If there is nothing wrong with you already, one barely notices 'burning season' or pollution in general in Chiang Mai. People with breathing problems apparently do. Last year was extremely unusual because of weather conditions, and the smoke really only bothered me for 3 or 4 days, but the media blew the whole thing way out of proportion and really screwed up tourism for a long time after things had returned to normal. .

UG, how can you say the media blew it out of proportion, if anything they underplayed it in my view. I haven't googled it to find the data but as I recall the number of hospital admissions and the death rate soared as a result of last years fires. The fact alone that airports were closed in the North as a result of the lack of visibility gives some clues as to the magnitude of the associated health problems.

Edited November 5, 2007 by chiang mai

[Ulysses G.]

They also said that it would be about six months before the smoke went away.

It was actually just a few weeks, but tourism went way down for almost exactly 6 months. It is irresponsible for the media to make predictions about things that they can't possibly know!

[lannarebirth]

Some say the burning season only last one or two months, I say it lasts a lot longer.

If there is nothing wrong with you already, one barely notices 'burning season' or pollution in general in Chiang Mai. People with breathing problems apparently do. Last year was extremely unusual because of weather conditions, and the smoke really only bothered me for 3 or 4 days, but the media blew the whole thing way out of proportion and really screwed up tourism for a long time after things had returned to normal. .

UG, how can you say the media blew it out of proportion, if anything they underplayed it in my view. I haven't googled it to find the data but as I recall the number of hospital admissions and the death rate soared as a result of last years fires. The fact alone that airports were closed in the North as a result of the lack of visibility gives some clues as to the magnitude of the associated health problems.

I submit it is bad reasoning to conclude that something that has never happened before should be the basis by which one gauges an areas liveability. It would be just as ludicrous to warn people to stay away from Phuket because of tsunami hazards. Both are rare environmental events.

[Flatouthruthefog]

They also said that it would be about six months before the smoke went away.

It was actually just a few weeks, but tourism went way down for almost exactly 6 months. It is irresponsible for the media to make predictions about things that they can't possibly know!

Correct as usual, U.

Choosing anywhere 6 or 7kms out of the city centre here will virtually guarantee you carbon-monoxide-free lungfulls. Look for the patches of grey/white or rust brown lichen growing on tree trunks. Most of our trees have them and you only see them in areas of Very clean air.

And the value for money here is fantastic.

And the Thai smile is still alive and well.

And Bangkok is merely a necessary cross-roads.

And I could go on.

And on.

[JimsKnight]

I live up in Chiang Mai these days and I find that when I'm out riding in early poor air quality season it is bearable for someone with a healthy set of lungs.

All in all I'll take the cooler groove of CM over the different country altogether of BKK anyday

[Ajarn]

Some say the burning season only last one or two months, I say it lasts a lot longer.

If there is nothing wrong with you already, one barely notices 'burning season' or pollution in general in Chiang Mai. People with breathing problems apparently do. Last year was extremely unusual because of weather conditions, and the smoke really only bothered me for 3 or 4 days, but the media blew the whole thing way out of proportion and really screwed up tourism for a long time after things had returned to normal. .

UG, how can you say the media blew it out of proportion, if anything they underplayed it in my view. I haven't googled it to find the data but as I recall the number of hospital admissions and the death rate soared as a result of last years fires. The fact alone that airports were closed in the North as a result of the lack of visibility gives some clues as to the magnitude of the associated health problems.

I submit it is bad reasoning to conclude that something that has never happened before should be the basis by which one gauges an areas liveability. It would be just as ludicrous to warn people to stay away from Phuket because of tsunami hazards. Both are rare environmental events.

I've been living here for 22 years, and every year the airports close...

[Ulysses G.]

For a few hours? For a few days?

I didn't know that.

[chiang mai]

Some say the burning season only last one or two months, I say it lasts a lot longer.

If there is nothing wrong with you already, one barely notices 'burning season' or pollution in general in Chiang Mai. People with breathing problems apparently do. Last year was extremely unusual because of weather conditions, and the smoke really only bothered me for 3 or 4 days, but the media blew the whole thing way out of proportion and really screwed up tourism for a long time after things had returned to normal. .

UG, how can you say the media blew it out of proportion, if anything they underplayed it in my view. I haven't googled it to find the data but as I recall the number of hospital admissions and the death rate soared as a result of last years fires. The fact alone that airports were closed in the North as a result of the lack of visibility gives some clues as to the magnitude of the associated health problems.

I submit it is bad reasoning to conclude that something that has never happened before should be the basis by which one gauges an areas liveability. It would be just as ludicrous to warn people to stay away from Phuket because of tsunami hazards. Both are rare environmental events.

Your logic is entirely sound and you would be correct in your argument were it not for the fact that the burning season in CM takes place every year. Some years are worse than others and therefore it is not a rare environmental event but rather one that is scheduled annually.

[Jingthing]

If there is nothing wrong with you already, one barely notices

I think this is a bit Pollyanna. Your body notices. This is reflected in the respiratory disease and mortality rates there, or one would suppose, unless the people there are particularly heavy smokers.