Older Farang And Young Thai

[midas]

I never envisaged I would be contributing to this section of Thai Visa or that I would be asking

for the advice/ feedback from other members of the gay community on this board.

I must admit that all of my encounters in Thailand over the years

have only ever involved just the sexual part - I accepted this and I never ever complained

because I had some wonderful experiences.

Yes some of you may frown but I relied mainly on money boys even though I was

careful to choose who I considered to be the" nice " ones ! And I had no complaints

because I found if you were respectful to them you could have a simply wonderful time

and even stay friends for many years.

But now at this relatively late stage of my life ( early 50's ) I have met a 22 -year-old gay boy who

isn't a rent boy, holds a steady job and has what I consider to have just lovely personal

values. He seemed very keen on me from a very early stage but while I was never

disrespectful to him, I consciously erected a barrier between us because I wasn't looking for and i

didn't really want a full-time relationship- for example I told him that

I wouldn't be available all the time for him and he just seemed to accept this. But sometime after this I have found that I have

actually fallen in love with this guy -quite deeply.

This has knocked me for six because I just didn't expect at this stage of my life.

To some of you who are more experienced in the more " permanent " side of gay

relationships these questions may indeed sound somewhat naive to you but please bear in mind

I have never needed to think along these lines before now.

And so now a question which I have thought about on many occasions is haunting me

more often - or actually a question in two parts :-

( a ) I accept that the emotions we call " love " can take many meanings and forms

but where it involves an older farang and a young attractive Thai boy, surely this cant possibly

take the same form as say two boys or two men who are in the same age group -and so

with such a wide age difference- how often do relationships like this have successful outcomes ?

( b ) surely it would be unreasonable / unrealistic to expect a young Thai partner

not to have extraneous sexual affairs with other young Thai men ? What I'm trying to say

is that it would be unfair to bond someone this young by expecting 100 percent of his feelings

and desires to be fulfilled only by an older farang who is twice his age and is probably

even older that his father and would be getting increasingly older his as he continues

to remain attractive and in his prime? if this occured I would be determined

not to show feelings of jealousy if this did occur because surely it's better to have at least

the vast majority of someone than not at all ?

Does anyone else share this philosophy or conduct themselves in this way in their relationships

with their much younger Thai boyfriends ? Let's face it's not the same as a heterosexual

family unit where the parties are expected to be 100 percent faithful to each other and so

is it acceptable / to be expected that your young Thai lover will look outside the relationship

occasionally for experiences with guys his own age?

I am looking forward to some interesting responses

[PeaceBlondie]

Hey midas, welcome to the Gay Forum! Other than a personally noncommittal post a long time ago, you've managed to post 812 times on ThaiVisa, before I noticed that you were gay. That's okay.

In the second volume of my novel, I introduce a pair of gay 25 and 18 year old cousins who fall for a late 50's farang because they're tired of silly school boys. So it's possible. Some of our posters here have succeeded at it.

You seem concerned about fidelity, which is almost a separate subject.

Older farang offer maturity, financial security, a worldly outlook, etc.

I suggest you try it out and see if an LTR works for the two of you, monogamous or not. As others will point out, you're struggling against lots of barriers and cultural differences: language, culture, family expectations, etc. Good luck.

[midas]

Hey midas, welcome to the Gay Forum! Other than a personally noncommittal post a long time ago, you've managed to post 812 times on ThaiVisa, before I noticed that you were gay. That's okay.

In the second volume of my novel, I introduce a pair of gay 25 and 18 year old cousins who fall for a late 50's farang because they're tired of silly school boys. So it's possible. Some of our posters here have succeeded at it.

You seem concerned about fidelity, which is almost a separate subject.

Older farang offer maturity, financial security, a worldly outlook, etc.

I suggest you try it out and see if an LTR works for the two of you, monogamous or not. As others will point out, you're struggling against lots of barriers and cultural differences: language, culture, family expectations, etc. Good luck.

Thanks PeaceBlondie ! I wasn't deliberately trying to hide it or anything

but my situation perhaps isn't so straightforward in that I have undergone something of a transformation

in that I spent the first 43 years or so as a heterosexual

with no real awareness of any homosexual tendencies whether latent or not.

Although perhaps one possible telltale sign was even though I had several extremely pleasant relationships

with ladies I didn't have even the remotest interest in marriage or children.

But then what seemed to be quite sudden, my homosexual tendencies became

very pronounced about eight years ago. I gave up trying to analyze why this may have

happened and instead chose to believe it may be more natural than we sometimes think

For example what about this :-

" Sex-changing fish are known as successive hermaphrodites--each fish can make either

testes or ovaries and produce either eggs or sperm. The simultaneous hermaphrodite,

however, comes equipped with both testes and ovaries " - anywhere I'm deviating

from the main topic..................

So judging from your words that I highlighted in red it seems it's not unusual for

such gay relationships ( older man and younger boy ) to be non- monogamous ?

is that correct ?

[PeaceBlondie]

I don't know how monogamous the average Thai is, straight or bi or gay. You can search this entire Gay Forum for "monogamy" or "monogamous" and get lots of opinions. As you point out, nobody's going to get pregnant in gay-gay relationships.

[JUDAS]

I hope it's acceptable for a hetrosexual to comment here, if not, I apologise in advance. IMO it's not the sexuality of the people involved in this relationship but the age difference which is the real issue, something which affects so called "straight" relationships too.

If I was in a similar situation I would be asking myself what I expected from a relationship with such a high age difference. Perhaps more importantly, I would be asking, what is the minimum I could accept. In order to answer the "what I expected" question one would have to have an open andsincere discussion with the potential partner.

A lot more to say but as I type with one finger that'll do for now. Good luck.

[ProThaiExpat]

I think midas is projecting his own thought processes onto his potential ltr lover.

There are many men, probably those who are more passive than predatory, that have no difficulty being monogamous, even if their partner is older and their sex drive is much stronger. There are outlets for sexual release that do not involve philandering.

I have posted more than once that I look on young gay men in Thailand, especially those who don't come from financially advantageous families, who desire to marry well. Granted that may be an old fashioned expression, but it does cover the issue well. Youth and beauty for financial security and an older person to take care of them. Women do it all the time, why shouldn't gay men.

One only has to have gone to a party, straight or gay, and watch what happens when the attendees learn there is a doctor in the room. Many men or women are willing to "give up" some of the drives of the young to make a marriage of substance and longevity. History is filled with men who have mistresses and yet have very long marriages as well as well as successful "trophy wife" relationships.

We all know the general perception in Thailand is that older expats that don't have to work are considered "rich", so why wouldn't that be something additionally attractive to a younger man.

Many gay Thai boys achieve status or "face" from having a falang boyfriend, so this is an additional plus. Monogamy is easier with those who don't have a rampaging sex drive or are from a culture like that in the U.S. were sex is such a driving force.

While 22 is a tad young to expect emotional maturity, if you willing to ride the roller coaster of living that usually is involved with young men of that age, go for it. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

My Thai lover is 30 years my junior and I know his sex drive is more active than mine, however, he doesn't seem to find philandering attractive as he feels that his reputation among his Thai friends and the community would not be as it is if he were to play around. "Face" is very important to him and I doubt if he would want to lose "face" for a quickie.

Would I permit him extra relationship sex? I have asked myself that question and also the question, what would I do if he did and I found out about it. The answer is that if I didn't know, great, and fortunately he is not from a Christian/Judean guilt society, so he doesn't have a need to unburden his guilt on me. He would take the secret to his grave and that is another reason I don't think he plays around as a secret is no longer a secret if someone else knows. By the way, he has a dynamite body and a cute face and gets a lot a attention from older falang when he goes out to the disco, or wherever, so he enjoys the attention and feels "hot" and that seems enough for him.

The love bond between us is very strong and that helps a lot too. I have no interest in other men, I have always been of a monogamous nature, so why can't he be as well. Admittedly, the older you get, the easier it gets to stay faithful.

The first question OP posed is the more troubling, how many winter/spring relationships last? Probably just as many as other kinds. When the older partner offers financial security there is a great deal more "glue" working to bind the relationship than between two twinks who know there is another street car coming along shortly.

I know of at least a half dozen winter/spring relationships between falang and Thai gay guys and they all seem as stable as other types, some are rockier that others, but it seems the Thai guy usually is more relationship oriented than the falang. So, it response to your question, generalities can't be applied, nor should they, since you are an individual and your love interest is one also, and no one can determine what is right for you but you.

Whether posts in this thread heartily encourage you to enter into a relationship with this guy or to stay away from him as his only motive is turning you into a walking ATM, neither advice will be pertinent as the advice giver will not know either of you.

[thaicurious]

being hopefully a tad more evolved than any gilled "successive hermaphrodite", i recall being aware of my sexuality pre-kindergarten when i had a crush on an older man who would have nothing to do with me. he was age five at the time, almost twice my age.

as to your (a) query: thirty years is a big stretch by any imagination. it is a generation and a half. another five years and you would not just be older than his dad, you could be his grandpa. i do not suppose that such a relationship would take on quite the same characteristics as one where partners deteriorate at similar rates. but there are many types of relationships.

the concern that i would bring to attention is your penchant to hide from yourself: not only evident in your sexual expression to have lived life for so long as a str8 man, but also in how you muddle the telling of your age "early 50s" while you have no problem pointing with precision to the age of the 22 year old.

we all fool ourselves to some degree. i often do it just for fun; it amuses me and keeps me guessing. we need be careful when such behavior becomes engrained as a pattern in our lives. recognizing that, it can be helpful to take counsel in others which you have done here. which brings me to your (B ) query. again, i detect the voice of tom foolery. why create such chaos. why would you consider his fidelity given your philandering? what muddy water is that?

the more honestly with which you approach this relationship, the more chance of success you will have. good luck.

Edited November 4, 2007 by thaicurious

[Naam]

being hopefully a tad more evolved than any gilled "successive hermaphrodite", i recall being aware of my sexuality pre-kindergarten when i had a crush on an older man who would have nothing to do with me. he was age five at the time, almost twice my age.

yeah right! i realized that i was a hetero at the tender age of three months when i had a crush on a girl who was more than three times my age. it happened during her first birthday party.

[midas]

I hope it's acceptable for a hetrosexual to comment here, if not, I apologise in advance. IMO it's not the sexuality of the people involved in this relationship but the age difference which is the real issue, something which affects so called "straight" relationships too.

If I was in a similar situation I would be asking myself what I expected from a relationship with such a high age difference. Perhaps more importantly, I would be asking, what is the minimum I could accept. In order to answer the "what I expected" question one would have to have an open and sincere discussion with the potential partner.

A lot more to say but as I type with one finger that'll do for now. Good luck.

JUDAS your point is well taken ! I think anyone who does not approach the situation this way

would face the real possibility of disappointment and possibly even heartache down the track

[midas]

being hopefully a tad more evolved than any gilled "successive hermaphrodite", i recall being aware of my sexuality pre-kindergarten when i had a crush on an older man who would have nothing to do with me. he was age five at the time, almost twice my age.

as to your (a) query: thirty years is a big stretch by any imagination. it is a generation and a half. another five years and you would not just be older than his dad, you could be his grandpa. i do not suppose that such a relationship would take on quite the same characteristics as one where partners deteriorate at similar rates. but there are many types of relationships.

the concern that i would bring to attention is your penchant to hide from yourself: not only evident in your sexual expression to have lived life for so long as a str8 man, but also in how you muddle the telling of your age "early 50s" while you have no problem pointing with precision to the age of the 22 year old.

we all fool ourselves to some degree. i often do it just for fun; it amuses me and keeps me guessing. we need be careful when such behavior becomes engrained as a pattern in our lives. recognizing that, it can be helpful to take counsel in others which you have done here. which brings me to your (B ) query. again, i detect the voice of tom foolery. why create such chaos. why would you consider his fidelity given your philandering? what muddy water is that?

the more honestly with which you approach this relationship, the more chance of success you will have. good luck.

thaicurious was I hiding from myself - I honestly don't believe that because as I mentioned earlier

I was completely and utterly content in heterosexual relationships for all those years. If bisexuals

can be attracted to both sexes simultaneously perhaps my story is a variation of that i.e. instead of

being simultaneous it was divided into two " stages " ? Who knows ? isn't life interesting !!!

The irony of all this is that one of those very pleasant heterosexual relationships involved a

psychotherapist No I didn't meet her professionally -we met in a government office building

in Sydney.

Your comment regarding ( b ) about my philandering is also interesting! Of course I accept what you say which is correct

but in my defense such philandering was occurring at a time that I had no commitment whatsoever to any other

person. More importantly I do take your point and recognise the importance as you say of outright

honesty and openness if such a relationship has any chance of working. thanks for your feedback !

[thaicurious]

thaicurious was I hiding from myself - I honestly don't believe that because as I mentioned earlier I was completely and utterly content in heterosexual relationships for all those years. If bisexuals can be attracted to both sexes simultaneously perhaps my story is a variation of that i.e. instead of being simultaneous it was divided into two " stages " ? Who knows ? isn't life interesting !!!

The irony of all this is that one of those very pleasant heterosexual relationships involved a

psychotherapist No I didn't meet her professionally -we met in a government office building

in Sydney.

Your comment regarding ( b ) about my philandering is also interesting! Of course I accept what you say which is correct

but in my defense such philandering was occurring at a time that I had no commitment whatsoever to any other

person. More importantly I do take your point and recognise the importance as you say of outright

honesty and openness if such a relationship has any chance of working. thanks for your feedback !

my partner of 10 years was bisexual. also i have a bisexual friend who is my friend since we were kids so i am not entirely unfamiliar with the territory. from what i've seen it seems no different from hetero- or homosexuality in terms of attraction. i haven't seen studies done which would indicate that sexual preference is turned on & off like a switch, though certainly there are extreme right-winged religious organizations which would have you believe so. in fact, a recent study from the university of utah's brain institute suggests that, at least in worms, sexual attraction is hard wired. of course from that, i suppose, you could argue that you simply had a lose wire.

while we discover new things about ourselves as we go through life and things that we like which we neither knew of before nor therefore could have known if we'd like them, of the things that have been in our life from the beginning, i'd think we'd have at least an inkling early on as to whether or not we'd like them. i've never heard anyone say "i didn't know i liked ice cream until later in life." yet they say that of gay sex which is at least as good.

i didn't mean any negative criticism of yourself and certainly not in regard of your sexual prowess. i hold no judgment on casual sex and frankly quite enjoy it myself. as the partner i mentioned was an active bisexual, we certainly had more than our fair share of shared fun. and so there is certainly no reason by me to defend yourself there. my only point, however obscure i sometimes tend to be, was to keep a sense of consistancy especially in regard to a 22 year old who is just starting to explore himself. or you just might find that after 20 years with you, just when you really need him, it turns out he prefers women.

Edited November 5, 2007 by thaicurious

[PeaceBlondie]

Speaking of generations (which can last 25 to 40 years, depending on definitions), the OP and I are of a generation and Western/Aussie upbringing where gay sex was neither preached nor practiced openly. On the contrary, it was roundly condemned and its practitioners killed, disinherited or fired from their job. As in Brokeback Mountain, we married and had kids. Some of us buried our tendencies beneath a broken mountain of denial.

Gay Thai young men are far less likely to decide at age 40 to switch from gay to straight.

On my first date with my second Vietnamese boyfriend (he was 25, I was 55), he joked that I was as old as his father. I replied, "Your father does not look or talk like me, and your father does not want to have sex with you!"

[peter991]

Hi there Midas. I have just finished a 3 year relationshipo with a young Thai guy. He was 19, going on 20 when we met in Pattaya. I was 50, about to turn 51.

Because I was intending to retire in Thailand - I did an incredible amount of reading and internet research on the country, but nothing prepared me for the reality of gay Thailand.

Initially, I played hard to get - as I was just hoping to relax. I wasn't looking for a relationship. Let's just say it was an interesting 3 years. For a lot of that time, I was unsure if he loved me or my wallet.

Neither of us were perfect but I decided to end things during my last visit to Thailand - when he returned home after spending nearly 3 months in Australia on a Tourist Visa. I knew then that things could have gone either way - either he came to live in Australia permanently as my partner - or I went to Thailand to live.

As it turned out, his friends were more important to him than me - so I ended the relationship. Since then, I have found a university-educated 30yo Thai guy - and we are just close friends. Perthaps that's all we will ever be. We are happy together.

I have told my young former Thai boy-friend our relationship is over. I have suggested he finds another farang but he wants me. Perhaps it is true love. I'm walking a fine line now between upsetting my Thai friend and my former Thai boy-friend.

In your case, Midas, I wish you every success. It's amazing how fast Thai guys grow up, mentally. While the ones I have met don't seem too monogamous, that doesn't mean yours won't be.

Short answer: Be honest with him, love him and care for him and he will probably return what you give him many times over.

Peter

[midas]

thaicurious was I hiding from myself - I honestly don't believe that because as I mentioned earlier I was completely and utterly content in heterosexual relationships for all those years. If bisexuals can be attracted to both sexes simultaneously perhaps my story is a variation of that i.e. instead of being simultaneous it was divided into two " stages " ? Who knows ? isn't life interesting !!!

The irony of all this is that one of those very pleasant heterosexual relationships involved a

psychotherapist No I didn't meet her professionally -we met in a government office building

in Sydney.

Your comment regarding ( b ) about my philandering is also interesting! Of course I accept what you say which is correct

but in my defense such philandering was occurring at a time that I had no commitment whatsoever to any other

person. More importantly I do take your point and recognise the importance as you say of outright

honesty and openness if such a relationship has any chance of working. thanks for your feedback !

my partner of 10 years was bisexual. also i have a bisexual friend who is my friend since we were kids so i am not entirely unfamiliar with the territory. from what i've seen it seems no different from hetero- or homosexuality in terms of attraction. i haven't seen studies done which would indicate that sexual preference is turned on & off like a switch, though certainly there are extreme right-winged religious organizations which would have you believe so. in fact, a recent study from the university of utah's brain institute suggests that, at least in worms, sexual attraction is hard wired. of course from that, i suppose, you could argue that you simply had a lose wire.

while we discover new things about ourselves as we go through life and things that we like which we neither knew of before nor therefore could have known if we'd like them, of the things that have been in our life from the beginning, i'd think we'd have at least an inkling early on as to whether or not we'd like them. i've never heard anyone say "i didn't know i liked ice cream until later in life." yet they say that of gay sex which is at least as good.

i didn't mean any negative criticism of yourself and certainly not in regard of your sexual prowess. i hold no judgment on casual sex and frankly quite enjoy it myself. as the partner i mentioned was an active bisexual, we certainly had more than our fair share of shared fun. and so there is certainly no reason by me to defend yourself there. my only point, however obscure i sometimes tend to be, was to keep a sense of consistancy especially in regard to a 22 year old who is just starting to explore himself. or you just might find that after 20 years with you, just when you really need him, it turns out he prefers women.

" simply had a lose wire" - well that could be for sure !

thaicurious I certainly didn't interpret your comments as negative criticism and your feedback

is lucid and interesting. The part you wrote which I highlighted is exactly what I had already

thought because no matter how enjoyable such a relationship might be you would be very naive

to be unaware of possible " threats " . I believe it's all about remembering to keep the reality of the situation

in perspective so you can at least keep cool head as trials and tribulations will inevitably occur

[midas]

Speaking of generations (which can last 25 to 40 years, depending on definitions), the OP and I are of a generation and Western/Aussie upbringing where gay sex was neither preached nor practiced openly. On the contrary, it was roundly condemned and its practitioners killed, disinherited or fired from their job. As in Brokeback Mountain, we married and had kids. Some of us buried our tendencies beneath a broken mountain of denial.

Gay Thai young men are far less likely to decide at age 40 to switch from gay to straight.

On my first date with my second Vietnamese boyfriend (he was 25, I was 55), he joked that I was as old as his father. I replied, "Your father does not look or talk like me, and your father does not want to have sex with you!"

yes indeed ! I have so much to be thankful for that my circumstances allowed me

to be totally free to explore my tendencies and preferences and now perhaps find

" a different kind of love " yet again - even if it is taking me my whole life to do so -

sure beats being stuck in a rut any day

[farang prince]

Midas, one of the big problems we Farangs have in Thailand is our definition of love as opposed to the Thai definition. Believe me, it is much different. While we spend a great deal of time on the emotional side of a relationship, most Thais I know look at the relationship from a very "cold heart" perspective...will the relationship provide financial and emotional security in the years to come? They look at their partner to see if they have a "good heart". Don't worry about your physical attributes. Will you provide them with security or are you a butterfly? So many Farangs are butterflies it is amazing that any Thai would bother to spend more than a night with us. This is actually a thought process that is ongoing whether Thais are heterosexual or gay and is a critical part of their decision whether to enter a relationship or not.

The age issue really isn't an issue to the Thais I know. In fact, the older you are, the more settled you are, the more financially secure you are, and the less of a butterfly you are.

Your concern about whether your Thai partner will be able to achieve enough sexual satisfaction with you really should not be a concern. If a Thai is attracted to you, he is not going to be attracted to other Thais. This is truly almost a universal truth among all Asians. If young gays are attracted to Farangs, it means they are not attracted at all to their own race. I see this among Chinese, Filipinos, Thais and Malays.

One of the great loves of my life was a Chinese young man of 24. And while I was located in the USA, I encouraged him to find sexual release among other people that he met online. He had several liasons...but always with westerners...because that was who he was attracted to. The only time I insisted upon fidelity was when we were living together.

It really doesn't mean much to a young Thai man if you have had a catharsis in your late 40's or not. For him, he wants to know how reliable you are and whether you will provide long-term security. If anything Midas, put yourself in the shoes of a young gay Thai. Chances are his family is struggling to make ends meet. And he might be looked upon as the family provider. If you can provide that financial security, you will be honestly loved and admired by everyone in the family.

Good luck to you.

Edited November 5, 2007 by farang prince

[ProThaiExpat]

I nominate Farang Prince for the best post I have ever seen in describing a very complex subject that I have tried to get my mind around for years. I will by copying it to my permanent file and sending it to the many falang who are contemplating relationships with Thai gays younger than themselves. Thanks Farang Prince for you post. It says it all.

[farang prince]

I nominate Farang Prince for the best post I have ever seen in describing a very complex subject that I have tried to get my mind around for years. I will by copying it to my permanent file and sending it to the many falang who are contemplating relationships with Thai gays younger than themselves. Thanks Farang Prince for you post. It says it all.

Thanks PTE. It's about as honest a post as I can send...based on many years of experience. I wish more Farangs would understand the differences between the Western philosophy of love and the Eastern philosophy of love...it would save a lot of heartbreak.

[midas]

Midas, one of the big problems we Farangs have in Thailand is our definition of love as opposed to the Thai definition. Believe me, it is much different. While we spend a great deal of time on the emotional side of a relationship, most Thais I know look at the relationship from a very "cold heart" perspective...will the relationship provide financial and emotional security in the years to come? They look at their partner to see if they have a "good heart". Don't worry about your physical attributes. Will you provide them with security or are you a butterfly? So many Farangs are butterflies it is amazing that any Thai would bother to spend more than a night with us. This is actually a thought process that is ongoing whether Thais are heterosexual or gay and is a critical part of their decision whether to enter a relationship or not.

The age issue really isn't an issue to the Thais I know. In fact, the older you are, the more settled you are, the more financially secure you are, and the less of a butterfly you are.

Your concern about whether your Thai partner will be able to achieve enough sexual satisfaction with you really should not be a concern. If a Thai is attracted to you, he is not going to be attracted to other Thais. This is truly almost a universal truth among all Asians. If young gays are attracted to Farangs, it means they are not attracted at all to their own race. I see this among Chinese, Filipinos, Thais and Malays.

One of the great loves of my life was a Chinese young man of 24. And while I was located in the USA, I encouraged him to find sexual release among other people that he met online. He had several liasons...but always with westerners...because that was who he was attracted to. The only time I insisted upon fidelity was when we were living together.

It really doesn't mean much to a young Thai man if you have had a catharsis in your late 40's or not. For him, he wants to know how reliable you are and whether you will provide long-term security. If anything Midas, put yourself in the shoes of a young gay Thai. Chances are his family is struggling to make ends meet. And he might be looked upon as the family provider. If you can provide that financial security, you will be honestly loved and admired by everyone in the family.

Good luck to you.

farang prince I also thank you for a very informative post. Your comments are really interesting

and I have to admit I had never thought of it in terms of being potentially a "cold heart" perspective.

I can understand what you say about security but surely in addition to that a 22-year-old full of testosterone

would have a similar sex drive to what we farangs had when we were that age and at some point

a desire for the feelings from a younger person ? It has perplexed me

to some extent how young Thai's can find older farangs appealing as much as they do:o

In past years I worked in Moscow Russia where as far as Caucasians are concerned

some of the men there are absolutely stunning. But without any doubt whatsoever with the vast majority

of young Russians there is a " sell by date " beyond which they are simply

not interested in sexual activities.

So what you're saying is this is entirely different set of rules ? Again something

you don't have to think about when you have nothing else in mind but being a butterfly

but now for the first time I am prepared to cast that lifestyle aside I do need to try and understand all this.

[popshirt]

I nominate Farang Prince for the best post I have ever seen in describing a very complex subject that I have tried to get my mind around for years. I will by copying it to my permanent file and sending it to the many falang who are contemplating relationships with Thai gays younger than themselves. Thanks Farang Prince for you post. It says it all.

I second that. Excellent post and to the point.

[popshirt]

So what you're saying is this is entirely different set of rules ?

Yes, An entirely different set of rules. Full stop.

[kitkatking]

If a Thai is attracted to you, he is not going to be attracted to other Thais. This is truly almost a universal truth among all Asians. If young gays are attracted to Farangs, it means they are not attracted at all to their own race.

Even though you post has been praised it is somewhat misleading to the OP. I have to disagree with the above statement. From my experience some Thais are attracted to Thais some to Farang and some enjoy sex with both. To many Thais, a cock is a cock no matter the body, the same said of Farang. The fact that many older Farang are attracted to Thais is because they look young and are available to them. You dont see many young western guys in relationships with Thais/Asians. But that youthful look becomes more attractive when you get older and the western young guys are no longer interested in you.

So to tell the OP his potential bf will not be looking at Thai cock is wrong, he might well be doing so. Im sure the great attraction to him is security. Thai guys, when looking for potential bfs, rank background, family, job etc very highly. If the guy is drop dead gorgous but poor many Thai guys would not enter a relationship with him on the otherhand dead ugly and very rich have a chance. Thais are very shallow which is why many of you posting here can get a Thai bf in the first place.

[farang prince]

If a Thai is attracted to you, he is not going to be attracted to other Thais. This is truly almost a universal truth among all Asians. If young gays are attracted to Farangs, it means they are not attracted at all to their own race.

Even though you post has been praised it is somewhat misleading to the OP. I have to disagree with the above statement. From my experience some Thais are attracted to Thais some to Farang and some enjoy sex with both. To many Thais, a cock is a cock no matter the body, the same said of Farang. The fact that many older Farang are attracted to Thais is because they look young and are available to them. You dont see many young western guys in relationships with Thais/Asians. But that youthful look becomes more attractive when you get older and the western young guys are no longer interested in you.

So to tell the OP his potential bf will not be looking at Thai cock is wrong, he might well be doing so. Im sure the great attraction to him is security. Thai guys, when looking for potential bfs, rank background, family, job etc very highly. If the guy is drop dead gorgous but poor many Thai guys would not enter a relationship with him on the otherhand dead ugly and very rich have a chance. Thais are very shallow which is why many of you posting here can get a Thai bf in the first place.

KitKat, let me refine what I said. If a Thai man is attracted to Farangs, then if he has a choice between having sex with a Thai or a Farang, he will select the Farang. Many Thai men are not attracted to Farangs in the first place, so they will seek other sexual partners. So you are right about your statement that "to many Thais, a cock is a cock no matter the body...." If you have an opportunity for sex with a willing and attractive partner, you will take it. After all, the universal truth is "A hard cock knows no conscience."

[thaicurious]

This is truly almost a universal truth among all Asians. If young gays are attracted to Farangs, it means they are not attracted at all to their own race. I see this among Chinese, Filipinos, Thais and Malays.

not that everyone has to be gay, & i get the practical stuff, but what does it say--if is says anything (i'm not sure as i've never given this much thought)--of a person who is not at all attracted to his own kind? is it no different than a guy only being interested in younger guys? (to clarify my point of view, i actually prefer guys my own age (50, um, i mean, nearly my late 40s) only those who keep themselves in good shape are generally either taken or chasing kids.

still, something strikes me odder even than the age thing to which i do not at all relate and which concerns me as i contemplate retirement in thailand. i'm going for the buddhism and wandering countryside elephants and suspect finding love there will not be easy for me. i have always been attracted to handsome men regardless of their race or age. i do not relate but can understand someone being attracted mainly to youth or to security. but there is something about being repulsed by your own race which leaves me with a sense of something unhealthy. i do not mean to judge it and i can not even put my finger on it. just a feeling, which i do not know yet how to consider, of something wrong.

i look forward to re-evaluating my initial reaction to such suggestion. but even in doing so i recall just a few months ago rejecting a guy who liked me because i was jewish and the ethnicity turned him on. i don't want someone to love me (or dislike me) because i'm jewish. i can't stand shallow people. i want them to love me because i'm good in bed.

[popshirt]

i can't stand shallow people. i want them to love me because i'm good in bed.

Sounds a bit shallow to me.

[JUDAS]

i can't stand shallow people. i want them to love me because i'm good in bed.

Sounds a bit shallow to me.

[Timothy]

Dear all

I find this topic quite useful and from a Thai perspective it is very informative as well.

I would have to disagree to the following statement by Farang Prince

"Midas, one of the big problems we Farangs have in Thailand is our definition of love as opposed to the Thai definition. Believe me, it is much different. While we spend a great deal of time on the emotional side of a relationship, most Thais I know look at the relationship from a very "cold heart" perspective...will the relationship provide financial and emotional security in the years to come? They look at their partner to see if they have a "good heart". Don't worry about your physical attributes. Will you provide them with security or are you a butterfly? So many Farangs are butterflies it is amazing that any Thai would bother to spend more than a night with us. This is actually a thought process that is ongoing whether Thais are heterosexual or gay and is a critical part of their decision whether to enter a relationship or not"

Love is love and being a Thai I can completely say that we view love also on the emotional side, someone you are ready to lose everything to be with so that you feel completed. "Respectability does not keep you warm at night" as said by one of the main character in the "Forsyte saga". Most or all of my friends consider love in the way I do and perhaps that 's why a few of us stay single even though there are people who could provide financial and emotional security making "offers" to us all.

The fact that there are some Thais do find emotional less crucial than financial and emotional security is because they are very poor and they could not find a better way to escape poverty than marrying someone richer. This applies to people of less fortunate background in any part of the world but it does not apply as many in the first world countries only because they are far less poor people and far more opportunities to get out of the poverty. The phrase "marry well" has always been part of western societies for centuries as well evidenced by Miss Jane Austen. The characters in her novels know what love was but whether they were given the choices to choose love or not is a different matter.

Thais do not look at the relationship from a "cold" heart perspective. If they did they would not end up leaving older farangs for younger Thai boyfriends who could not provide any financial security. The fact they many farangs believe in such the statement confirms that in your opinion Thais are out there to seek a living cash machine. The first assumption is that general Thais are poor and the second is that the poor boys love me because of my money. If this were true it would just be applicable for Thais from much poorer background not general Thais and the relationship starts in a way that a Thai is told to be a toy boy from day one. If you go out with a middle class Thai who has a decent job and financially supports himself you will find that we also shares the same concept when it comes to love. However, this relationship would expect something from you too. We would expect you to give decent opinions on our careers, pay attention to us, go out for dates, satisfy us in bed in the same way that your partner in your homeland would expect.

If a farang looks for a Thai person who is the sort of person he would look for at home he will find that such person shares with him the definition of love but this also means responsibility, honesty, bravery and so on. If a farang looks for a young cute boy who he could not have found in his homeland he would get what he wants ie sex without dates, personal chef, 24- hour butler and the price to pay for that is his saving. If the relationship does not start with love but with fun why would you ever ask love back anyway.

[geriatrickid]

1, One only has to have gone to a party, straight or gay, and watch what happens when the attendees learn there is a doctor in the room. Many men or women are willing to "give up" some of the drives of the young to make a marriage of substance and longevity.

2, History is filled with men who have mistresses and yet have very long marriages as well as well as successful "trophy wife" relationships.

3.The first question OP posed is the more troubling, how many winter/spring relationships last? Probably just as many as other kinds. When the older partner offers financial security there is a great deal more "glue" working to bind the relationship than between two twinks who know there is another street car coming along shortly.

Puhhleeze.

1. Funny how my friends and I never get hit on. Ok, maybe the reason is that I don't practice medicine upon the living but still......

2. Depends upon how one defines success. It's successful if you can pull of a life of deceit for some, I guess. If that was my dad cheating on my mom, I'd have cut his nuts off. Alot of folks think that being a tomcat is part of being gay. I've said it before and I'll say it again, none of my gay friends cheat, has ever cheated or would tolerate cheating. They have the balls to look someone in they eyes and say, sorry it's not working. They also want to be told the same thing. A gay cheater is the same as a str8 cheater - a spineless coward.

3. The OP is realistic in his assessment. The only older guys that have a chance of making a relationship with a younger person work are those guys that are fun& interesting and that have looked after themselves. Any tub of goo that's just a constipated angry prune aint gonna keep anyone for long.

[thaicurious]

The fact that there are some Thais do find emotional less crucial than financial and emotional security is because they are very poor and they could not find a better way to escape poverty than marrying someone richer. This applies to people of less fortunate background in any part of the world but it does not apply as many in the first world countries only because they are far less poor people and far more opportunities to get out of the poverty. The phrase "marry well" has always been part of western societies for centuries as well evidenced by Miss Jane Austen. The characters in her novels know what love was but whether they were given the choices to choose love or not is a different matter.

Thais do not look at the relationship from a "cold" heart perspective.

indeed. it could be said that the colder heart is western, out of which world some older men think they can trade money for love overseas (as that argument would run both ways) and from where the youth here (i live in an expensive area of the u.s.a.) might seek not just money but also a guy with both gym body and youth: the whole package (and why not).

of course not all guys are seeking money. but of those that do, not all of them bring even youth to the table. following is one of the most pathetic ads from craigslist (a website with personal ads) that i have ever seen. i won't bother to include his picture but this is from a blond white american aged 43:

My dream has been to move to Florida and escape the cold and blight here in Michigan. Life is full of bad luck and bad choices. I've encountered both. What a mess I have made of things. Staying too long on a dead end job while feeling secure with inheritance money and savings in the bank, I made some bad investments, coupled with a bad environment, and now it is almost all gone. I feel so alone for the first time in my life. Previously I preferred it that way. Now I am beaten into the very dust of the earth. My goal of moving to Florida is becoming more and more remote. Winter depression is worse each year. Detroit is a God-forsaken, blighted and burning wasteland. I own two houses here still--just barely--and I feel trapped. No luck selling. I want to get away from it all. I need a slower pace. Life has not allowed me to even grieve my loss of loved ones. I need someone in Florida who is a calm and gentle soul who can nurture me back to life. Maybe I can do likewise for you. I need security and rest. A retiree's life looks unbelievably appealing to me now. The cute young boys I long for now have become more difficult to catch. When I do catch them, I find their personalities and values lacking. A quick lay and "goodbye" and it's all over. Sexually I've always gone for the younger guys, but friendships have grown more readily with an older generation. I'm 43 years old, but in many ways I have the personality of a 65-year-old. Is there someone out there who can restore my strength and renew my faith?

[geriatrickid]

I'm 43 years old, but in many ways I have the personality of a 65-year-old. Is there someone out there who can restore my strength and renew my faith?

sounds like a real catch. At least he's honest.........