Baby Is Gone

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

So does he have a girlfriend or not ??

It * DOESNT MATTER *

Wife believes he does, so that's a reality that needs dealing with.

Honestly, who cares about the truth. On something that's a side issue at best.

Edited November 8, 2007 by TheEmperorOfTheNorth

[luumak]

If you want the kid straight out and do not want to see the wife/mother again here's what a friend of a friend did, you can adopt a strategy based on this:

Baby/Wife = Pinay

He took them on a 'holiday' to Thailand. When they were settled in the room he bolted to the US with the kid (left her with a ticket back and money to pay for the room and her exp back to Phils).

There is no legal course you can follow. Any discussions will drain your finances and come to naught.

[WaiWai]

You can forget about medical-psychological help, this is Thailand, and upcountry Thailand at that.

He hasn't said anything about the location, has he ?

[blizzard]

ok topic not funny but the advice is. downright absurd!

maybe the lady was disappointe d he didnt have gf/ / she then had grounds to leeve him. now she have to stay wiith him..........yuck!

[Acquiesce]

If you want the kid straight out and do not want to see the wife/mother again here's what a friend of a friend did, you can adopt a strategy based on this:

Baby/Wife = Pinay

He took them on a 'holiday' to Thailand. When they were settled in the room he bolted to the US with the kid (left her with a ticket back and money to pay for the room and her exp back to Phils).

There is no legal course you can follow. Any discussions will drain your finances and come to naught.

How did he manage that without a letter from the wife?

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

You can forget about medical-psychological help, this is Thailand, and upcountry Thailand at that.

He hasn't said anything about the location, has he ?

Based it on the usual demographic of Thaivisa and their spouses. Call it a wild guess if you will.

And again, It * DOESNT MATTER * if this involves a trip to Nakhorn Nowhere or on the BTS to Ratchathevi.

Thaivisa discussions have the focus of a 3 year old trying to aim for the first time, spilling all over the place. You guys are *SO* un-core.

Edited November 8, 2007 by TheEmperorOfTheNorth

[WaiWai]

Perhaps Emperors shouldn't meddle with the masses, then .

[MrSquigle]

Ok, so he HAS a girlfriend and he has run away up country right ?

[mr_hippo]

It was mr hippo in his failure to comprehend the OP.

No, it was the OP writing very unclear English.

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

Perhaps Emperors shouldn't meddle with the masses, then .

I know, I know.. I have this penchant for benevolence.

I may sound harsh at times, but sometimes people need a kick in the ass first and foremost. And that probably applies to the original poster and his Mrs equally.

If this episode is taking place anywhere near Chiang Mai then I'd assist in setting things straight in person. I mean, a 2 week old baby and mum is throwing tantrums (tantri?) and dad entertaining the police or lawyers.. Are they $#(*&^(@#& nuts... Go home, bring the MIL and be PARENTS.

Now off to Tesco for some Pampers, Nan Gold and cute warm baby jumpers.

Speaking of pampers, and the risk of getting said undergarments of the collective readership even further in knots: Paternity is not at all in doubt right? Unlearn me a thing or two about insane Thai females, but if they start accusing you of being unfaithful and then try to cut you off, I'd bring some suspicions of my own to the table.

Edited November 8, 2007 by TheEmperorOfTheNorth

[phazey]

Sounds like a classic case of the baby blues. I assume this is the missus' first child - then who best to help her out than dear old mom. Better than being alone stuck at home doing bitty every 2 hours, poor chick.

Did she get any other help before she left - has she said flat outright "i dont want to see you"

Get bum up to inlaws - i'm sure they will welcome their son-inlaw with open arms....Being a first time mum is a stressful, worrying time and the best thing they need is a shoulder and some rest.

Good Luck

[MrSquigle]

I have flown out of Los alone with my child, never asked for any papers or questioned at all.

Also to add something to this, seeing as your daughter was born in Los, you are not recognised officialy as the father of your child, so I would presume your rights are linked alongside this.

I had to go through the family court to be officially recognised as my daughters father, you think that did not piss me off at the time, but now have the official documentation for it. I was originally told by a thai lawyer, not the one we used, that this was to 'adopt' my daughter, this pissed me off even more. But I believe that this may have been a translation thing as it was not 'adoption' but legal recognition through the thai legal system.

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

Oh, one more piece of general advice: The Mother In Law is the most important person in the life of the New Father. If anyone can bring reason to mum it's her. Win over the MIL and you've won the war. If you can get the Mrs home, BRING Khun Yaai. And be sure to address her as k. Mae or k. Yaai.

It's actually quite strange that k. Yaai wasn't staying with you in the first place at the hospital and during the first week(s) after birth.. Half of her reasons for leaving could very well be wanting to be with her mum. Did you by any chance not agree to having the MIL around?

To any prospective fathers, having the MIL on board is COMPLETELY essential.

If only to change diapers or clean up vomit.. I mean who else is going to those things, YOU?

Edited November 8, 2007 by TheEmperorOfTheNorth

[Mosha]

Ok, so he HAS a girlfriend and he has run away up country right ?

Watch my lips. He (the OP) has already said he does not have a girl friend.

[blizzard]

yr assuming momma in law is a cuntry bumpkin. what iadvice if momma is society lady.

if op had a gf he would be with her now and there wouldnt be any problem

Edited November 8, 2007 by blizzard

[phazey]

Also to add something to this, seeing as your daughter was born in Los, you are not recognized officially as the father of your child, so I would presume your rights are linked alongside this.

didn't he say his name is on the BC - if that's the case (can't be bothered to clickback and check) he is recognized.

ps, from OP

We are married, and my name is on the birth certificate

Edited November 8, 2007 by phazey

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

yr assuming momma in law is a cuntry bumpkin. what iadvice if momma is society lady.

Doesn't matter. She's the most important person to have around / on board. And if she's super-society then she can bring some maids to clean up the poo & vomit.

[blizzard]

you have nade a good point emperor.

so the momma in law not being around at birth leads me to believe sumthing is very very wrong. man dont want to cum clean nothing gonna change.

we can only help so mut..............lol.

[jaiyenyen]

I think what your wife needs right now is a large dose of understanding. All this talk about taking the baby back and doing a runner to USA seems a bit drastic to me.

Is this her first child, if so, she is probably wondering what the <deleted> has hit her. As another poster said, at least she has gone back to her parents (Where most of us would go if we needed support, love and understanding)

How was she before the birth?

After my first child was born, I remember feeling very rejected, no longer no1 in my wifes eyes, because baby comes first. Thats the time to show yourself as a man and understand that it's the baby that matters most.

Stop being a Prat, get over to the in-laws house and TALK. Show her that you love her show them that you love her.

I think a lot of the more drastic advice here is coming from people with no experience.

Here endeth the lesson of someone with three kids

I wish you well

Jaiyenyen

[gburns57au]

So we have a guy with wife and a 2 week old kid....wife has PND to some degree or is just pissed off with him for whatever reason...

He has come here to ask advice...probably read all the care bear replies on another thread too...

Now he is collecting evidence so that he can take the kid off her and divorce her without even trying to work through it...or if it happens again....

Be Proud of yourselves fellow Tv members....

Edited November 8, 2007 by gburns57au

[MrSquigle]

Well Phazey...my name is on the BC and when it comes to it, you are not recognised....forgot and this might be the critical difference, this for not married to the mother fathers.

Also our MIL was not present for either of our childrens birth or the few weeks after.

And yes, I did change nappies and clean up puke and take for walks and very happy to have done it and will do it again.

[Mosha]

I have just asked the boss, what she would do if we had a baby. Apart from call it Jesus. After the birth she would come home here, all my inlaws who have kids have gone back to the home where they live after birth. However more than a few of those have the wifes mother living with them. It may be he is misunderstanding the extended family thing. and it's all gone down hilll from there. Also different practices might apply depending on what part of the country you live in. Much like the funeral/wake practices.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Mosha

[fletchsmile]

My wife took our 2 week old baby and left. I have just found out she is at her parents. I am pretty sure my wife is suffering from Post Partum Depression. She refuses to seek help or to come home or even pick up my phone. She has been feeding lies to her parents. I went to the police becuase I am concerned about the welfare of my daughter. We are married, and my name is on the birth certificate. What can I do? The police said they can do nothing but one police man took me to the side and said, 'We can not take the baby from her, but when your wife comes back, we can't take the baby from you'. I don't want to use our baby as a pawn in some sick Thai game. I also don't want to live in fear that everyday I go to work I may come home and our baby and my wife is gone. She refuses to get help with her depression saying that it is all my fault, I don't take care of her, I have a girlfriend, you know the typical Thai woman. How can I get custody of my child? What do you think the chances are? Does anyone know of a good Thai lawyer? I love Thailand but I have to chose the welfare of my child over my personal preferences. Once I get an American passport for her, can I just take her? I don't want to take her from her mother but I think no mother is better than my wife at this time.

Please give me advice.

Mate,

Having a baby can have many different effects on both you and your wife, particularly in the days just after birth. The wife can feel down, tired and emotional. It's not unexpected a Thai girl turns to her parents for help, although it may seem drastic to us in this case. They are much more used to using the extending family to help with children. Your wife is obviously asking her parents for help. It could be as simple as that.

You yourself, will have a whole host of emotions going on whether you realise it or not.Two weeks is way too soon to be talking about lawyers. Get yourself round there and talk it thru with your wife. Or just be there.

A woman's natural biology usually kicks in and the baby will be No.1 focus. Maybe sometimes a dent to the guy's ego. I have to admit on the odd occasion after our daughter was first born, I wondered if I'd ever get any attention again - selfish I know. I'd read it in books. But it doesn't really prepare you tho'. Not exactly rational. But I'm sure most guys have felt it. Suddenly for a short while at least you're not the most important thing in life to the person you've been so special to for so long.

These weird emotions for both of you normalise after time. For some quicker than others. Get round there., otherwise they may grow. Talk to your wife. Love your baby. What is there more important in life that you aren't doing that every day already? Why not ask the parents to come and stay with you and the wife for a while at your place? When my wife gets tired of looking after our lovely daughter, she asks if her mum can come and stay. To be honest I don't really relish the prospect of the mother-in-law being around for weeks. I just make clear it's not permanent. A week or two here and there helps us all though.

She's obviously got a few things on her mind. Time for you to step up, be a father and put your wife and baby before everything else. That means realising sometimes you're number 3 on the priority list. Easy to say normally, but don't underestimate how much there is going on with yourself. Neither of you got an instruction manual with the baby. But it's a book best written together.

Edited November 8, 2007 by fletchthai68

[sriracha john]

Once I get an American passport for her, can I just take her?

Yes, you can, but it's not advisable. It's called kidnapping.

Edited November 8, 2007 by sriracha john

[mark henry]

As hard as it maybe for you, leave her alone give her the space and time she needs to adjust to her new life changing event. Get a message to her tell her you love her and that you'll be there for her when she wants/is ready. Go and buy her some baby stuff and anything else she might need and some cash as well, this lets her know you care...but don't hassel her. It's the only thing to do from my own experience of my wife when she had P.N.D. Best of Luck to you.

[brahmburgers]

My wife took our 2 week old baby and left. I have just found out she is at her parents. [...]

It is fairly common in Thailand for the young mother to stay at her parents' house after giving birth. To put a figure on that, I've seen it 4 times in the 2.5 years since I've moved here, with the mom staying the full 3 months of her maternal leave and the father continuing to work in another city. Thai fathers are ok with this, but of course Western fathers have a different view.

My question would be, have you discussed this with your wife before the birth? Is it possible that she wants to stay with her parents for a while but doesn't know how to tell you or explain to you?

thai are not big on psychological stuff; better to try to talk to mother/sister/auntie/grandma or any other older person that will mediate. thai men do not confront, they will go thru a third person so u should try the same thing. if she is also uneducated (i am assuming, but even if not) most thai women do not really know what post partum depression is. the feelings she mentioned are obviously post partum and the best place is at her parents home (where many thai women run to after fights with husband etc; a fairy common scenario from what i know from thai men that tell me thats what their wives do)...

u are kind of in a rush unless u ahve previous problems with her; or u dont speak thai very well and cant communicate and anyway most thai dont vocalize their real feelings, they tend to act, not speak.

better to show up at mom's house with presents for baby and mom and talk, and dont try to take the baby in your hands or anything else that she could misread as 'taking her baby'... try to visit and go back and forth w/o pressure. or suggest that she come back home with mom or sister or cousin to help with her and baby for a few months (a common scenario if u would read other posts)...

once her hormones calm down a bit and she gets her confidence back, things may swing in your direction. what u need is a mediator, not police.

unless u are withholding info here about her past actions or your relationship/

is she a first time mother? how was she previously? hwo are your and her language skills? what were her expectations after giving birth? is this your first child? did u think she would react like a western woman from your country? etc...

my woman's perspective

bina

israel

The more you deal with authorities, the more you'll turn your wife and her family into enemies. Thais are emotionally like kids and they feel naked without immediate family all around. If you want to try to remedy the situation, the best thing is to dispel with your farang pride and suck up to the family. Get a room nearby the parent's place, show up with your tail between your legs, with little gifts, and generally hang out like a puppy. In a little while, the girl and the family will warm to you and things will work out. Remember, young Thai women can't think for themselves - all their thoughts are intrinsically entwined with their family's ideas about things.

[JUDAS]

Invite your in-laws to stay at your at your home, obviously along with your wife!! Obviously don't know any details about your relationship with the in-laws but would be great opportunity for you to show them you are a great husband and caring father. Might also help to get them on "your side" if the depression continues or worsens.

Parents are extremely important to you Thai ladies, more so than we sometimes understand. Good luck.

[TonyLeung]

i have not read the responses but the cop's advice seemed smart.

[torrenova]

My girl's mother came to Pattaya for a week or so for the birth then went home. Her aunty stayed for a month (or nearly a month then just disappeared !). We were on our own after about 4 weeks.

In arguments there is always the "I'll go home" threat and she means it but she uses it as a bargaining chip and I don't bargain in that way. She has learned that but still it is a natural reaction from them, to run to the hills and the family when they have to confront a problem. Just as they don't like answering the question "why ?".

Technically you could get a passport as long as you have all the correct documents and I'm sorry but you cannot kidnap your own child unless the baby is under some court order determining residence and custody. You are merely taking your child with you on a trip to your own country. The fact that the mother is not coming is immaterial. Do you honestly think fathers with deceased wives have problems ?

The OP does not say what he does here but even if in a job, get some time off and take some transport (hire a car if necessary) and go to see her. For sure take some baby things, buy some even, especially nappies and formula milk and things she won't be able to buy. If you have joint accounts or know her account, make sure she has money to pay for things. Make sure though that she does not have too much or all your money !

Get in touch with her mama if you can communicate or have a Thai you know translate for you.

This crap about a girlfriend is common, especially here in Thailand. Thais have a problem focussing on more than one thing at a time and they just pluck excuses from thin air. An example, you drive with your wife into town at 2pm and it takes 20 minutes. The next day you drive into town with your wife at 5pm and it takes 60 minutes. The next day you drive into town alone and it takes 60 minutes. She thinks you have been somewhere and somewhere always means with another lady. They cannot work it out, rationalise, use logic, even remember. They see it in their families from birth that the men folk booze and play around with mia nois etc. and you have to be the same. You're only the same when they want you to be though !

Keep the dialogue going at all costs. Get some time off to see her and sort it out. That her mother was not around and does not appear to have been around is very strange but that may be part of the reason why she has gone. You have to bend more now than at any other time before or in the future.

[sriracha john]

Once I get an American passport for her, can I just take her?

Yes, you can, but it's not advisable. It's called kidnapping.

Technically you could get a passport as long as you have all the correct documents and I'm sorry but you cannot kidnap your own child unless the baby is under some court order determining residence and custody. You are merely taking your child with you on a trip to your own country. The fact that the mother is not coming is immaterial. Do you honestly think fathers with deceased wives have problems ?

Excuse me, while I used the wrong terminology, it's still illegal to remove a child (EVEN YOUR OWN) out of a country without joint parental approval (which the OP doesn't seem to have nor does he appear interested in obtaining). Anyway, it's not kidnapping, but child abduction and the punishment is up to 7 years imprisonment.

International Child Law:

http://books.google.com/books?id=XFhVLMbHl...3dUQVNLyG9V-n-s

Edited November 9, 2007 by sriracha john