Thailand grants citizenship to half a million people – but not farangs

[hhfarang]

One of the other anomalies of the Thai system is that a farang spouse can inherit the property of his/her deceased spouse! So where that would leave you in regards to a visa I have no idea!

You can inherit but once again you cannot own land. So, you can apply to the Interior Minister to inherit the land (don't know if anyone has actually gotten it tho) or you have one year to sell the land.

Please be aware if this situation happens to anyone that all your wifes property CAN be taken by her next of kin and you get nothing. I know of a case like this!

Do not give the death cerficate of your spouse to your wife family FOR ANY REASON what so ever as they can then sell the house you live in legally.

There is a great deal to this issue but get a real good lawyer or you CAN be left out in the SERIOUS cold

Bandbanker

I personally know someone that this happened to. He was protected from any family claims because his wife had drawn up a legal will here in Thailand using a Thai lawyer giving him all rights to her property upon her death and the right to remain in their house as long as he wanted or to dispose of it (and any proceeds) as he sees fit. He went to probate court when she passed away and the will was upheld. It has been more than a year and he is still living in the house.

[Arkady]

I think we all get the scenario of the "loving" Thai family coming out of the woodwork and wanting "their" share to piss up on whisky and plasma TV sets so we have to keep our wits about us.

I understand that there is no trust law in Thailand so you have problems there. If we eventually buy a house here I was going to put it in trust for our baby daughter but we'll have to get another work around.

So with usufruct I have a few questions:

1. Is the property and the land in the thai name ?

2. How do you unravel a usufruct ?

3. What about if you both agree to sell - you have to place another usufruct on the new property ?

4. If she dies, are the properties excluded from her assets or just that the effective leases prevent the properties from being sold easily ?

5. I presume that they can still be sold bu the new owners (those who have inherited) ?

6. I do not see how the westerner could sell the property not belonging to him - anyone care to explain ?

As for cash accounts. I suspect the little bastards would be at your door within minutes with the begging bowl and they will have friends down at the local bank all too willing to empty the accounts. Keep your own money safe. Lock everything else away in a bank vault in a real bank in your name.

1. Land must be in a Thai name but a newly built house can technically be owned by a foreigner (see other TV threads on this topic) and registered at the Lands Dept. This doesn't give you much protection against a hostile land owner but it gives you a house registration book, if that is of any use to you. You can own the house structure in addition to having a usufruct or lease on the land.

2. Not sure how to unravel a usufruct but I imagine the owner of the usufruct just needs to declare to the Lands Dept he wants to cancel it and pay a fee.

3. You would just sell the land clear of any usufruct or lease.

4. If she dies, her land is clearly included in her estate. Leases don't prevent the land from being sold and, since a lease is a legal agreement between two parties, the new owner may not be bound by the lease. Usufruct technically gives you the right to enjoy the land for the rest of your life and the owner should be binding on the new owner. In Thailand it is designed more to protect farmers, whereas a lease is a simple business agreement. However, a Thai judge might not be particularly sympathetic to a foreign usufruct owner.

5. The land can be sold by any one who has title to it, unless it is subject to a mortgage registered on the deed.

6. If the Thai owner dies leaving the land to a legally married foreign spouse, the property goes into her estate which is technically still a Thai national. As a foreigner you can be the executor of the estate and there is a time limit for disposal of the land (I think 12 months) in the case of foreign heirs. If you are not legally married, a Thai court will not uphold your right to inherit your wife's estate over her family. I think this applies to Thai common law spouses too.

What provisions should you make to protect your Thai wife, in the event that you predecease her and you want her to 1) have cash to survive short term and 2) inherit some or all of your assets in Thailand and overseas? Some cash and assets in her own name and possibly an insurance policy seem a good idea. How would one ease the process of her inheriting overseas assets? It may be difficult for many to claim your overseas estate and, once you are gone, they may not even be able to get a visa to travel to your home country. There are cases where Thai wives have been treated as badly by farang relatives as the more common reverse situation.

[JimGant]

Leases don't prevent the land from being sold and, since a lease is a legal agreement between two parties, the new owner may not be bound by the lease.

This is a frequent topic on this forum, and the consensus has been that: you're legally going to be able to stay on your leased land for at least the initial 30-years. This is what is endorsed on the chanote at the land office. Lessors may come and go on that chanote, but you, the lessee, are a permanent fixture for 30-years (unless you choose otherwise). So, the endorsed chanote seems pretty ironclad (as far as anything is in Thailand). But, that flowery lease you and your lessor drew up -- the one that says you have a renewal option, etc -- may not stand up in court. And would mean absolutely nothing if the land was sold and you now had a new lessor. (But if your wife is your initial lessor, there should be no need for further lease paperwork other than what is endorsed on the chanote, which is the only meaningful lease in all of this.)

So, for old farts like me, who won't live another 30 years, and whose wife of 35 years and extended family are top-notch, the 30-year lease seems just fine.

A will from your wife should also include something like the following: If the law allows, I leave the land and all structures to my husband blah blah. If the law does not allow, my husband has the option to remain on the land or to sell it, in which case he shall receive all proceeds. If after one year the land has not been sold, he shall designate amongst the following blah blah (a list of relatives/close friends you and you wife have agreed on) to take title to the land.

And if you're lazy and cheap, your wife could write the above in her own hand and have a legally-enforceable holographic will. (And while not needed, have a couple neighbors as witnesses, plus have the amphur sprinkle some holy water on it). Anyway, we did this, and it's an attachment to the officially drawn up will accomplished in the States, which also covers this aspect of her Thai property plus that in the States. Is it good-to-go? Who knows (but it sounds good to me).

How would one ease the process of her inheriting overseas assets?

For financials (bank account, IRAs, investments) designating her as your beneficiary or joint owner (or setting up a TOD -- Transfer on Death) will avoid probate and should work just fine. (But if she's not a citizen, you'll need to get an ITIN to use in lieu of a social security number, if she doesn't have one. Form W-7 does that for you.)

As for that old Chevrolet at Grandma's place in Denver, I dunno.