High Season In Chiang Mai

[cnxmike]

During the low season this year a lot of people running a business in Chiang Mai lamented the poor sales. Some even said, that this was the lowest season for years. Now that the high season finally has started, how does it compare to the high seasons before? Did things got any better or after a poor low season are we going to have a poor high season as well?

I usually don't go out at night. But yesterday was one of rare occasions to do so. I was surprised how few customers were in the bars and restaurants at Loy Kroh and Moon Muang. What's going on in Chiang Mai?

[Greenside]

During the low season this year a lot of people running a business in Chiang Mai lamented the poor sales. Some even said, that this was the lowest season for years. Now that the high season finally has started, how does it compare to the high seasons before? Did things got any better or after a poor low season are we going to have a poor high season as well?

I usually don't go out at night. But yesterday was one of rare occasions to do so. I was surprised how few customers were in the bars and restaurants at Loy Kroh and Moon Muang. What's going on in Chiang Mai?

I have no idea how anyone makes money out of the bar/restuarant business - there are simply too many of them fighting for the same customers but I guess that's why they come and go so fast. I don't know there is any valid research on the tourist visitors that would shed light on the matter but it would be interesting to know the figures.

[Ulysses G.]

There are a lot of variables that make it difficult to predict what kind of high season we are going to have this early in the season. For one, The Loi Katung holiday is very late this year, so the big spenders are only starting arrive right about this time.

There are already a lot more Farangs around now than a few weeks ago, but they are mostly budget conscious backpacker types that stay for about 6 months every year and spend as little as possible.

It will be a week or so before we can really tell how many high rollers are around and how the high season looks.

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

During the low season this year a lot of people running a business in Chiang Mai lamented the poor sales. Some even said, that this was the lowest season for years. Now that the high season finally has started, how does it compare to the high seasons before? Did things got any better or after a poor low season are we going to have a poor high season as well?

I usually don't go out at night. But yesterday was one of rare occasions to do so. I was surprised how few customers were in the bars and restaurants at Loy Kroh and Moon Muang. What's going on in Chiang Mai?

I have an opinion on this. Several, actually:

1. If you look at bars and how many people are there, you have to look at the demographic that goes to bars. Fact is, Chiang Mai gets less and less of that demographic as those people visit Pattaya, Phuket and Samui. They used to at least include Chiang Mai, but I think less people do so now. Chiang Mai is becomging an old ladies club.

2. High season hasn't really started yet. I think the high season is shifting also; Europeans (esp. families, couples) are a bigger group now, and they mostly get their main holiday in the summer months. Americans get <deleted>-all holiday anyway, so when they do take a holiday they can actually plan it in the best time for Thailand (i.e. now -> January). However with the direction the dollar is taking ( ) I expect less Americans this year, which will hit the high-season 'high'.

3. Chiang Mai rapidly needs to redefine itself, because otherwise it ends up without a demographic to cater for. No beach, not truly adventurous in the perception of people, hill tribes and elephants are increasingly looked on as less politically correct or more touristy things to do, etc, etc. It *IS* a nice town, but tourists also need a compelling reason to go somewhere.

So in conclusion, I vote for a zoo-exchange program with Pattaya and import a couple container loads of bargirls, and make beer sales to tourists tax-exempt for the Northern region.

Alternatively, we have to wait for global warming to run its course to give us a beach nearby.

Edited November 15, 2007 by TheEmperorOfTheNorth

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

And, on an even more serious note, there's the misspending of money that COULD have been used to improve tourism around Chiang Mai.

Now, I pride myself in being this forum's most rabid Thaksin fan by far, but I'm also the first to highlight that the Chiang Mai Night Safari wasn't one of his better moments, to put it mildly.

Artificial tourist traps don't work for Thailand, for places that aim to be seen as traditional, and 'real Thailand'. That money would have been so much better spent on highlighting and beautifying the actual traditional things Chiang Mai already has in abundance, namely the temples, historical sites (WHICH ARE ALL OVER TOWN) and general architecture. (A lot of the older buildings can be made to look quite nice, and suddenly Thapae Road isn't a big Bangkok-like mess anymore but a wonderful, vibrant and attractive street to walk through.)

Also: Wave the national pork fee for the North. Go into Eco trekking and stuff. The park fee is easily made back from that, and more. Look at what Elephant Nature Park is doing: charging serious bags of money, but making people feel good about spending it! Making people spend 200 baht for a sad waterfall is NOT making them feel happy about spending it.

Edited November 15, 2007 by TheEmperorOfTheNorth

[Donnyboy]

isnt Ratchapuek open at the moment?

I guess you can call it an artificial tourist trap. With more marketing and some proper transport for the tourist, Im sure it will be patronised. Include a discounted entry to the night safari on the same ticket, and you may have a winner.

I would like to see more basic things rectified in tourist areas, and all over CM-

more public toilets- clean

more garbage bins

sidewalks fixed

street signs

a manned tourist info centre

to name a few

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

> snt Ratchapuek open at the moment?

It is.

It sucks big Twinkies.

Ok, I guess that begged clarification: There's far more cement & concrete there than plants, as a park there's few trees, none of which very mature so very few shaded areas. To turn it into a feasible park it needs a lot more trees and probably different landscaping too.

And then some other poster on here (forgot who) once mentioned that the Thai approach to gardening is to achieve/show 'dominance' over nature, rather than harmony in nature. So that's where you get trees and hedges cut into all kinds of artistic shapes, and wide paved lanes, and sculptured hills, but really nothing that you'd want to spend any time in. In this season it's perhaps sort of survivable, but if you go on a sunny day outside of the cool season then the heat is overwhelming, and the only escape from it is..... the airconditioned royal pavillion.

It would need major work to turn it into a nice park.. But even looking at Suan R. 9 on the Mae Rim road, it's easy to see that this is not a task that the gardening folks at the Tessaban are comfortable with.

> I guess you can call it an artificial tourist trap. With more marketing and some proper transport for

> the tourist, Im sure it will be patronised.

There *IS* proper transport for the tourist. City bus #13 goes there. Mostly empty, of course.

Again, if it showcased actual nature of Thailand then it might be worth a trip. As it stands, it doesn't show anything that's not in the tourist's home country, and most likely a lot better in their home country at that. (Of course this was never a target, the target was a flower expo primarily for Thai tourists, which actually did succeed very well)

> more public toilets- clean

> more garbage bins

> sidewalks fixed

> street signs

> a manned tourist info centre

There's the TAT office across the iron bridge. Street signs.. all streets have signs? Or do you mean city plan / map info stands? That would be good. As for the sidewalks, did you see what they're doing around the moat? I completely wonder WHY they're doing this.. They had paved tiles for a footpath around the moat, then they stripped them all off, poored concrete, and are now putting in a top layer of...... wait for it... tiles. I honestly don't see the point, it looked fine before.

[cmsally]

There's the TAT office across the iron bridge. Street signs.. all streets have signs? Or do you mean city plan / map info stands? That would be good. As for the sidewalks, did you see what they're doing around the moat? I completely wonder WHY they're doing this.. They had paved tiles for a footpath around the moat, then they stripped them all off, poored concrete, and are now putting in a top layer of...... wait for it... tiles. I honestly don't see the point, it looked fine before.

Most likely had to do with budget just waiting to be used and well budgets mean .... well won't go into that.

There are a few good things that have happened over the last few years, one being the ascendence of the boutique hotel. Although there are still quite a few projects that seem to have lost the plot.

One of my pet peeves that I would like to see better controlled, is the restoration of the temple buildings rather than the razing of the building just so they can raise heaps of money to build something new and awful. This is especially true of temples in the city and some of the wealthier suburb areas. There should be much more control over this.

Back on topic, there seem to be more European tourists this year. More tourists taking advantage of the direct Singapore flights , I think. The 400Bt national park fee is nothing but ridiculous and should be sorted out with season tickets, weekly passes etc and graded along with size and interest of site.

[wolfmanjack]

My wife has a shop at the night bazaar and she was just complaining this morning that many people are coming but no one is spending. I will hold my judgment until after the 24th.

[BossHogg]

I must say that the Night Bazaar does not have much to offer nowadays.Many visitors come here looking for the culture only to find cheap, fake goods in the night bazaar.

Yes there alot of temples in the old city but there is no pleasure in walking around town. The pavements are dangerous and often blocked. Cars dont stop at pedestrian crossings . If you have a child in a buggy its no fun at all around town. You cant use the pavements. Not much of family holiday destination at all.

[Ulysses G.]

I can't believe that they've shut down Thapae Gate for months and hurt a lot of businesses all of this time for nothing.

They could have finished the renovations to the gate area in less than a week.

[p1p]

I can't believe that they've shut down Thapae Gate for months and hurt a lot of businesses all of this time for nothing.

They could have finished the renovations to the gate area in less than a week.

I'm surprised at you UG! You've been in LOS for how long?

They NEVER do a job in one week when they can drag out the pain, and the lucre, for months.

[BossHogg]

And what was so wrong with Thapae Gate that it needed a sixth month re-furb? it was actually obsruction free !

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

Well, for starters it was an area where anti-government / anti military protests could start. If stuff happens around/after the elections, there's one obvious center less.

[BossHogg]

Well, for starters it was an area where anti-government / anti military protests could start. If stuff happens around/after the elections, there's one obvious center less.

I fear you have a very accurate point

[monkeyclub]

All valid points.

Its been mentioned a few times CM becoming an old peoples home, I agree.

With the latest five star hotels and condo developments going on, what exactly is the selling point? go to CM and do what?

I recently saw old mate Andrew Loyd Webbers "Cats" in Bangkok, absolutely wonderful occasion by the way. The point is a professional, international event such as this would sell out in hours in CM I'm sure, but sadly it just is'nt available.

Where are the Live theatres, art houses, museums, events, international shows, music etc ...

With no beach or go-go's keeping most of the neanderthals and iliterate down south, wheres the incentive for clean living respectful spenders and/or families to visit CM and the "real Thailand" regardless of season.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

[JimsKnight]

I agree CM seems to of lost a lot of its colourful characters of late. I first came to the city back in 2001 when there was still be vibrant feel to the city. It's a lot more subdued and full of tourists who think a good night out is to go to the restaurant then trapse about past all the nightlife and markets, then go back into their comfy 5 star hotels for the night!

Give me the backpacker types who at least go out and drink in the bars more than these family tourist types anyday...

[jimmym40]

I have a neighbor that works at the JEDI. I just asked him the other day how the occupancy percentages vary from season to season. He said a couple months ago occupancy was around 30 percent, this month around 50 percent, and starting end of Dec, they are booked at around 75 percent till the end of Feb/first of March.

I agree with many previous posts. I think CM is an "old farts" destination. Nothing of a real value for the money. All those touristy places need upgrading. The only real thing CM has going for it is the weather!!!

[PeaceBlondie]

My partner works at a small, local guesthouse. He had been reporting occupancy rates of around 20%, even 10%. Last night they were overbooked. Just a single anecdote, but maybe high season has arrived.

[cnxmike]

Last week I was at the Ratchapuek. At the moment they don't charge any entry fees. As someone wrote before on a hot day it's no pleasure to walk around, as there is almost no shade.

The next point, there is no restaurant or beergarden or whatever. Just a small kiosk.

And the main attraction the foreign pavillons are closed.

[uptheos]

My wife has a shop at the night bazaar and she was just complaining this morning that many people are coming but no one is spending. I will hold my judgment until after the 24th.

The Night Bazaar is doing itself out of business, with ridiculous overpricing that leaves no margin for bargaining down to the recognised 40% or equivilent. My family have just gone home after three weeks and they were laden with bargains and fakes galore, stuff that would be unafordable at home. They bought mostly in Patpong, Silom and Sukhumvit, MBK, Baan Tawai and Walking Street. The only thing they bought in the night bazaar was several DVD's, because the vendors are so greedy with their initial prices. It's little wonder no-one is spending in the night bazaar when everywhere else is so much cheaper. I think the world has twigged that the night bazaar is mostly a rip off and giving it a purchasing wide berth. Vendors should get together and understand why business is bad.

[Puwa]

Where are the Live theatres, art houses, museums, events, international shows, music etc ...

Indeed, this question is pertinent to all of Thailand. I wish the Culture Ministry would stop chasing down college girls in miniskirts (I'll take that job) and build one or two excellent museums. I would love to see Bangkok--or even Chiang Mai-- host an international museum for Southeast Asian cultures. It would be good for the country's image, for the economy, and for Thais and visitors alike. Well-run institutions offering cultural attractions can bring quality, quantity, and consistency to the tourism sector, especially if they are subsidized by government.

[chanchao]

I think the world has twigged that the night bazaar is mostly a rip off and giving it a purchasing wide berth.

Yeah, I believe I've done my part getting that message out. It's sad though, because there must be honest hard working vendors out there as well.

And then some of the factories / work shops have outlets there that are reasonable.. But a casual visitor would never know which those are.

[chanchao]

Indeed, this question is pertinent to all of Thailand. I wish the Culture Ministry would stop chasing down college girls in miniskirts (I'll take that job) and build one or two excellent museums.

Have you been to the museum at the Three King's Monument (Anusawaree Oh-wa-peh) ? It's very good.

Then there's the museum near Wat Jed Yod.

That makes two. (And I"m not even counting the Museum of Amazing Insects (or some such) in the Nimmanhaemin area. )

[PeaceBlondie]

I stopped buying tourist souvenirs in the Night Bazaar around January 2005. I bought a Ferrari jacket and my Thai partner could not bargain them below 800 baht, which was the first price they quoted. A year later I needed another one and walked out of Burger King (where it was then) at about 1 pm. I saw a young man putting up a Ferrari jacket, and I started with a first offer of 500 baht. No argument, bought it on the spot. I should have offered 300 baht!

Well, maybe we should start complaining about the added traffic during high season. It can't be as bad as Hua Hin!

[uptheos]

It seems to me the vendors don't have much idea about tourism. They seem to think every farang gets off a plane at Chiangmai, having never been anywhere else in Thailand - heads straight for the night bazaar and therefore knows nothing about prices. They seem to forget that the average 'spending' tourist is probably doing Chiangmai after Phuket, Samui, All the shopping bargains in Bangkok and then 2 or 3 days in Chiangmai for Elephants and different culture. Most farangs know what price things really can be had for, but the vendors just haven't done their homework and greed means they get nothing!

[Puwa]

Indeed, this question is pertinent to all of Thailand. I wish the Culture Ministry would stop chasing down college girls in miniskirts (I'll take that job) and build one or two excellent museums.

Have you been to the museum at the Three King's Monument (Anusawaree Oh-wa-peh) ? It's very good.

Then there's the museum near Wat Jed Yod.

That makes two. (And I"m not even counting the Museum of Amazing Insects (or some such) in the Nimmanhaemin area. )

Yes been to those--not the insect one though--and agree that they are nice little provincial museums. But I think Thailand should be ambitious and build a serious world-class museum. There's an enormous amount of art and history and society to showcase here. I'm not saying that a museum is the be-all and end-all of everything, but in the context of a discussion about how to boost tourism, it's not a bad idea.

[misterme]

I'm not sure I agree.

Most Ex-pats know that the Night Bazzar is the worst priced market in Thailand...

... but alot of the stupid tourists do not. I see people buying for 4 times higher than the price I'd walk away from. How, they do it, I don't know. But they'd rather sell nothing for 3 days, than offer farang's a deal. Funny as some of them go to Sunday Market and sell the same items cheap cheap cheap.

[chanchao]

Yes been to those--not the insect one though--and agree that they are nice little provincial museums. But I think Thailand should be ambitious and build a serious world-class museum. There's an enormous amount of art and history and society to showcase here. I'm not saying that a museum is the be-all and end-all of everything, but in the context of a discussion about how to boost tourism, it's not a bad idea.

Agreed.

I think culture, arts, history, architecture and so on need highlighting in a modern, accessible, fun and informative way.

(I know, easier said than done.. )

Edited November 19, 2007 by chanchao

[distortedlink]

I now live in Chiang Mai and previous to that have visited for the past 20 years.

I can describe the social scene situation here in one word: LESS.

Chiang Mai used to have a wonderful night social scene, unlike Bangkok and Phuket, it was more personal and relaxed, a party and an adventure each night. Many great hang outs and bars, multiple western style nice but inexpensive restaurants, beautiful girls working in the massage parlours, great discos, more snooker clubs, restaurants with great free entertainments (dancers, comedians, singers), the bars were fun and great atmosphere, stage shows most of it uninhibited.

These days what is left of the Chiang Mai social scene is just remnants of how it was originally. The Spotlight that used to be THE PLACE to go, now normally has 2 girls dressed very prim and proper with sad faces sitting outside and is certainly in need of a lick of paint, the sad overpriced small dirty open bars in the Loh Kroh road with lots of plain looking girls touting customers to buy them drinks, the gorgeous looking girl standing outside a massage parlour and once inside her grandmother takes over, only a choice of a very few half decent restaurants now left in the town, but expensive, the night bazaar has become overpriced and boring.

In the last 5 years there has been practically nothing new on the social scene in Chiang Mai, especially nightlife with the big girl dress code cover-up in the bars, no shows, earlier closing.

I believe that the object of the big close down of what the hierarchies call the undesirable establishments was to attract a more up market clientele, probably focusing on elderly American couples who it was hoped would spend more money such as on joining golf clubs, staying at expensive hotels, touring, dining at exclusive restaurants, buying prestige cards & investment properties and who retire to bed at 9.00pm. Of course this hasn't happened and unless something is done within the next couple of years to revitalise the social scene (which includes more facilities and fun for children, wildlife without cruelty attractions & theme parks) plus improved nightlife in Chiang Mai, this city will cease to be no longer a tourist attraction, as a guess, say, in the next 5 years.

Edited November 19, 2007 by distortedlink