Male/female - East Vs West

[chiang mai]

I’ve followed a number of threads of late discussing male/female relations in Thailand and note with much interest the extent to which western female commentators seem to promote shades of the Western liberalised views of the feminist movement. Men and women are equal in every respect, the male is bad because he not (allegedly) as monogamous as the female and, most importantly, the female in the East should be regarded the same way as the female in the West, are all sound bites and more I detect.

My personal view is that this is all nonsense and that the vast majority of men and women have clearly defined roles, duties and capabilities and that Eastern culture is hugely different from Western culture and long may that survive – attempting to upset the order of those things is unhelpful and potentially dangerous, at a minimum it is annoying. My sense is that far too many Western female commentators on the topic of male/female equality are pursuing a “one size fits all” model around the globe and are actually quite insecure with the different model they see here in Thailand and other parts of Asia and The Far East.

Ladies, Gentlemen, should Asian females be treated and regarded here the same way as they are in the West or does that model not work here – I say it does not but you may have a different view.

[LaoPo]

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something. Plato"

LaoPo

[blizzard]

u calling op a fool sir. thats not nice.

[kat]

oh man, I'm so glad I've got choices

[TonyLeung]

girls who grew up on farms are not the same as girls who grew up in the city and have a post secondary education. most of the farang in Thailand end up with the farm girls (for better or worse i am not judging). the girls who grew up in the city, went to university and can provide for themselves are more likely to resemble Western women and to have higher standards in their choice of a partner than the girls who grew up on a farm.

the major difference, IMO is not cultural, but financial.

[ZukiSuzuki]

u calling op a fool sir. thats not nice.

The truth is not always nice.

[LaoPo]

u calling op a fool sir. thats not nice.

I do not, Sir. Please have a look at the signature of the OP....

LaoPo

[DamianMavis]

I don't see the attitude you claim from the women on the forum here but..... I am a traditional man, feminists would call me sexist. I truly believe that men and women have clearly defined roles and when you break away from those roles you have unhappy couples, maybe that is why we have such a high divorce rate in the west. There's nothing wrong with a strong woman, but she better hook up with an even stronger man or I think she will be unhappy. It's basic instinct, I've never seen a happy woman that was with a weak man. Constant fighting and disrespect is NOT normal and is a big sign that SOMEONES unhappy, which is what I see back in Canada ALL THE TIME with couples. Always when the man was too weak. I'm in trouble now!

Damian

[blizzard]

i also think most fangra s and thai gurls marriage s are based on munney. even though the onslaught will cum on here and say me and tony is wrong.

why is it always these guys live in the villages.

[TonyLeung]

where would middle aged men with average salaries be without impoverished 3rd world women?

[DamianMavis]

I dont blame those guys for coming here and hooking up. Better to be alone? NO WAY, good for them. However when they start judging everyone else that is different from them and doesn't live like them.... then they are all wrong.

Damian

Edited November 17, 2007 by DamianMavis

[ZukiSuzuki]

When these old white guys start having kids with young Thai girls then that is all wrong.

Edited November 17, 2007 by ZukiSuzuki

[jetjock]

My sense is that far too many Western female commentators on the topic of male/female equality are pursuing a “one size fits all” model around the globe and are actually quite insecure with the different model they see here in Thailand and other parts of Asia and The Far East.

From my experiences with Asian women, the western female commentors are wrong about "one size fits all" !

[BossHogg]

When these old white guys start having kids with young Thai girls then that is all wrong.

why?

[PeaceBlondie]

oh man, I'm so glad I've got choices

Me, too!

[GuestHouse]

I've read some garbage on this site before, but the OP here has leapt to pole position.

A) The claims the OP makes regarding to western women coming on this site and professing a form of feminism in which men and women are seen as equal and without difference in all respects are hogwash - I've never seen a feminist or anyone else claim as much on TV.

The norms between East and West are indeed different - Many a western man with 'Traditional Values' will tell you how women are home makers and not workers - certainly not manual labor workers. The evidence all around Thailand is that Thai women are both homemakers and workers and often manual workers. Ya' don't get many women digging ditches in the west (feminist or not).

C) What's all this Cr@p about it being dangerous to meddle with things as they are? A veiled excuse to leave things as they are because the suit the OP.

D) Thai women are able to figure out what they want - They don't need western feminists to TELL them what is best for them, they are quite capable of having a DIALOGUE with feminism and deciding what THEY want for THEMSELVES. Least of all they don't need foreign men to tell them what its best for them.

E) It is my observation that the Thai women I know who have moved to the west thrive in the opportunities western society offers them. In Thailand they are discovering for themselves that they can have a fairer society and if you think they are going to forgo those opportunities because it suits men, Thai or foreign, that things remain as they are then you are a bigger fool than your Opening Post suggests.

Traditional Western Men moving to Thailand and wearing the trousers in their own house.

Thailand is full of them – talking like a man out of the house and behaving like a mouse when at home.

[TonyLeung]

I dont blame those guys for coming here and hooking up. Better to be alone? NO WAY, good for them. However when they start judging everyone else that is different from them and doesn't live like them.... then they are all wrong.

Damian

i dont blame them either, except when they start complaining about feminism i think they are just mad because girls with choices dont give them any play.

[TonyLeung]

Let me ask you guys a question, would you rather your daughter be western minded, want to take care of herself, have her own money etc, or would you rather that she makes it her goal to cook and clean and looks to her husband to provide her money? come on man, you just like the latter because its better for you.

what is a middle aged guy going to offer a twenty year old girl in the West? He better be in the top 10% of earners or he must have some other rare qualities, but come to thailand, get a job teaching english (the worst possibility) and you are still making 5 times as much as the average Thai. Come on, face reality and stop patting yourselves on the back. your claim to fame is being born on the right side of the world.

[ZukiSuzuki]

When these old white guys start having kids with young Thai girls then that is all wrong.

why?

Amongst other reasons that i wont mention here, older fathers are far more likely to have children with schizophrenia, Men aged 45 to 49 are twice as likely to have children with schizophrenia as men under the age of 25 who became fathers, while the risk triples for men over the age of 50.

[kat]

Let me see .... I'd CHOOSE:

I dont blame those guys for coming here and hooking up. Better to be alone? NO WAY, good for them. However when they start judging everyone else that is different from them and doesn't live like them.... then they are all wrong.

Damian

him,

oh man, I'm so glad I've got choices

Me, too!

him (a girl needs real male buddies too, you know),

I've read some garbage on this site before, but the OP here has leapt to pole position.

A) The claims the OP makes regarding to western women coming on this site and professing a form of feminism in which men and women are seen as equal and without difference in all respects are hogwash - I've never seen a feminist or anyone else claim as much on TV.

The norms between East and West are indeed different - Many a western man with 'Traditional Values' will tell you how women are home makers and not workers - certainly not manual labor workers. The evidence all around Thailand is that Thai women are both homemakers and workers and often manual workers. Ya' don't get many women digging ditches in the west (feminist or not).

C) What's all this Cr@p about it being dangerous to meddle with things as they are? A veiled excuse to leave things as they are because the suit the OP.

D) Thai women are able to figure out what they want - They don't need western feminists to TELL them what is best for them, they are quite capable of having a DIALOGUE with feminism and deciding what THEY want for THEMSELVES. Least of all they don't need foreign men to tell them what its best for them.

E) It is my observation that the Thai women I know who have moved to the west thrive in the opportunities western society offers them. In Thailand they are discovering for themselves that they can have a fairer society and if you think they are going to forgo those opportunities because it suits men, Thai or foreign, that things remain as they are then you are a bigger fool than your Opening Post suggests.

Traditional Western Men moving to Thailand and wearing the trousers in their own house.

Thailand is full of them – talking like a man out of the house and behaving like a mouse when at home.

him,

I dont blame those guys for coming here and hooking up. Better to be alone? NO WAY, good for them. However when they start judging everyone else that is different from them and doesn't live like them.... then they are all wrong.

Damian

i dont blame them either, except when they start complaining about feminism i think they are just mad because girls with choices dont give them any play.

and him.

All represent different views, and all are not exactly like mine, but then again, I'm not looking for a man exactly like me. Here's a big secret: choice enables us women to be A LOT more flexible than you think. I'm not sure why that warrants a revenge thread with fabricated accusations, but there you go.

Viva la Choice

*Most of the complainers here have made a choice by moving to the other side of the planet. Modern women are simply enjoying their choices that are far more abundant in the West and elsewhere. Very simple.

Edited November 17, 2007 by kat

[chiang mai]

oh man, I'm so glad I've got choices

That's a cop out answer to a serious question Kat.

[blizzard]

i didnt even know there was a model for western women.

some home makers, some not. some marry for munney some dont. not all same same.

west women genereally dont like to dig ditches though..............lol.

[kat]

oh man, I'm so glad I've got choices

That's a cop out answer to a serious question Kat.

Not serious enough for me

*And on that note, I've got to go. There are much better options than this tired thread.

Edited November 17, 2007 by kat

[meom]

Let me ask you guys a question, would you rather your daughter be western minded, want to take care of herself, have her own money etc, or would you rather that she makes it her goal to cook and clean and looks to her husband to provide her money? come on man, you just like the latter because its better for you.

If that were the case how come most western men hook up with entertainment providers who except for the cooking and cleaning bit are very well capable to take care themselves and earn their own money?

[blizzard]

either the thai enertainers marry farang or keep entertaining. keep entertaining got to be second choice.

[GuestHouse]

If that were the case how come most western men hook up with entertainment providers who except for the cooking and cleaning bit are very well capable to take care themselves and earn their own money?

That says a great deal about the western men who make that choice and nothing about anyone else - male of female, eastern or western.

[kat]

i didnt even know there was a model for western women.

some home makers, some not. some marry for munney some dont. not all same same.

west women genereally dont like to dig ditches though..............lol.

And blizzard, you get honorable mention, because not everyone can spell.

[TonyLeung]

Let me ask you guys a question, would you rather your daughter be western minded, want to take care of herself, have her own money etc, or would you rather that she makes it her goal to cook and clean and looks to her husband to provide her money? come on man, you just like the latter because its better for you.

If that were the case how come most western men hook up with entertainment providers who except for the cooking and cleaning bit are very well capable to take care themselves and earn their own money?

they take that job because they want to find a provider. that isnt obvious to you?

[kat]

Let me ask you guys a question, would you rather your daughter be western minded, want to take care of herself, have her own money etc, or would you rather that she makes it her goal to cook and clean and looks to her husband to provide her money? come on man, you just like the latter because its better for you.

If that were the case how come most western men hook up with entertainment providers who except for the cooking and cleaning bit are very well capable to take care themselves and earn their own money?

Because most women in a traditional society are considered a done deal by the time they're thirty or have kids.

[kat]

I don't see the attitude you claim from the women on the forum here but..... I am a traditional man, feminists would call me sexist. I truly believe that men and women have clearly defined roles and when you break away from those roles you have unhappy couples, maybe that is why we have such a high divorce rate in the west. There's nothing wrong with a strong woman, but she better hook up with an even stronger man or I think she will be unhappy. It's basic instinct, I've never seen a happy woman that was with a weak man. Constant fighting and disrespect is NOT normal and is a big sign that SOMEONES unhappy, which is what I see back in Canada ALL THE TIME with couples. Always when the man was too weak. I'm in trouble now!

Damian

One thing you're neglecting, hot, traditional guy:

Divorce and other bad things are swept under the rug in Asia, because it's considered taboo. So, many men get other outlets, and many women just go shopping.

That's it - I'm done.

Hold down the fort, the rest of you.

*comma

Edited November 17, 2007 by kat