Why Are So Many Britons Emigrating?

[Ricardo]

in uk now we have the teenage single mother who lives on a council estate with her eldest son Jason who wears a baseball cap and drives a souped up ford,he gets in trouble with the police.His grandmother was a teenage single mother who lived on a council estate with her eldest son Jason who whore a baseball cap and drove a souped up ford,he has been in trouble with the police.....etc. etc.....

That's what we Brits call a traditional way-of-life !

[Ricardo]

Good, good, good I say. Let the Eastern Europeans make something of their lives as we make something of ours and let the dross go down the plug hole!

Just another case of Natural Selection in action !

[sgunn65]

A couple of points.

To the poster who said that the UK passport does not exist as it is now an EU passport. Not quite true.

If you are born British you have won the lottery of life. Its not just the passport which will allow free passage to many more places than a Bulgarian one, but the language. When you struggle to buy something here there is often the chance that someone will speak some English, try getting by in LOS with Bulgarian.

And I think that our language is a major reason so many of us emigrate, just that we can be understood (a little) in so many places

I am the son of an immigrant who came to this country in the second world war, the only survivor of an extended family who all died because they weren't the right type, so I have every reason to be grateful to the UK for its tolerance and open arms. We have a saying, "He who saves one life saves the world entire". However I do question the system that makes a Thai wife jump through hoops to come here but gives the Abu Hamza's of this world free housing and benefits.

I have just moved here to Bangkok and am in my 4th week. I am finding it difficult, frustrating and I am not a little home sick but I know this will pass as I improve my language skills etc.

Why did I emigrate??? I really don't know!! I love UK and living in London. Yes its expensive and you run to standstill, but my friends, live music, theatre, footy at the pub etc compensate. What will LOS give me? Again I don't know but the fact is I am here and I am going into this adventure will an open mind.

As Dylan Thomas said, "We are not wholly bad or good, who live our lives under Milkwood" and I guess that is true of UK and LOS. The few of us who leave the UK are always replaced by others and the few who arrive in LOS full of hope and expectation will meet their counterparts leaving full of bitterness and regret!

Just read the posts here to see the truth of that statement.

[ronw]

The decline in standards in Britain is not a new phenomena.....it has been getting worse for a very long time.....

In fact, the rot started with the first wave of post Roman immigrants,when the Angles and Saxons moved in.....and there is no recovery from having such trash as neighbours....

[samran]

oh goodie. An (Australian) moderators favourite time of month. Brits beating each other up on how fast the UK going down the gurgler.

Have fun guys, just remember, not to break forum rules.

The second largest group of people entering Britain for work are Australians.

Naka.

We are probably the second largest group of non-EU immigrants, and I suspect that the largest group would be Americans. I used to be one of these Aussies, though we are now back in LOS. At any one time, I think it is estimated that there are perhaps 250K Australians living in London. Indeed, the largest polling booth for any Australian Federal Election is always the Australian High Comission there in London.

It is funny, as the people who rail against the 'immigrants' do so against the visible ones. I dare say there is an element of -not outright racism - but a fear of difference. Given that Aussies, Kiwi's, Americans etc, all seem to be deemed 'familiar' you'll never see the BNP having a go at them. I guess I have Neigbours and Home and Away to thank for that.

The thing that the immigrant knockers tend to forget is, that immigrants have partly helped underwrite British Economic prosperity. Not only from the skills and knowledge bought in, but by keeping wages relatively stable. Without migration, the UK would be much, much more expensive than it (already) is. Inflation would be harder to control, and interest rates, on average would have had to have been a tad higher to dampen wage expectations.

My personal view of the UK is that is a perfectly nice place, not too different to other places. We liked it there, I went there using a Highly Skilled Migrant Permit, essentially a UK style green card. But, like I said, it is expensive, and to have kids there as two foreigners, would have been economically prohibative.

People like to bang on about migrants getting benefits, but, as my wife an I were non-EU citizens, were eligbile for nothing, nada, zilch, zero, Sweet FA. The only thing we could do, as Commonwealth Citizens, was vote!

As for the UK visa rules vs Thai rules, I found the rules to get into the UK tough, though oritentated to skilled workers and families. Though Thailand is OK on the former, it is sadly lacking on the latter.

I will say however, that people should never complain about the Thai bureacracy which is probably more efficient in my own opinion. The Brits tend to do make it very hard to get 'into the system', and things like getting an NI number, bank account, credit card, etc etc, were all extremely difficult and frustrating with the amounts of ID you needed. And the brits have a habit of changing the visa rules as well, regularly over the space of about 3 years, regularly changing the criteria of the visa I held, and the conditions for extending it. It caught alot of people off guard.

So as a place to live, it is pretty good. I wouldn't complain too much. I've done the grass is greener on the other side thing and to be honest, most places are the same these days, especially in the west. The weather there is pretty <deleted> though

[grantbkk]

If you come to Thailand to live please bring enough money. Poor people from other countries are not well thought of here in Thailand and generally make it harder on us immigrants in the long run.

[jstumbo]

I haven't got a problem with immigration ,just as long as its fair........for instance my wife is Thai and so she can live with me in U.K. without any problem but I can't in thai or own land like she can here......we all know the Indians , Pakistani's have big mansions back home for their retirement but I am married to a Thai and cannot plan like that ,....you try setting up a big mansion/company in bulgaria/romania for e.g. the local mafia will have you out before you can say Jack Robinson! unfortuneately for us wer'e the only mugs that play by the rules!

why don't you build a "big mansion for retirement" in your home country?

See his next sentance for the answer to your question.

[garro]

I am Irish but spent the majority of my adult life living in England.

It is not a bad place to live, and sometimes I can actually miss England more than my own country.

England is full of contrasts.

It contains some of the most fair minded people in the world and some of the most racist.

I would like to think that the fair minded are in the majority.

England is a country that is happy to give second chances, and I do think that anybody can make it there.

The English have always been a mongrel race and seem to have always accused the latest arrivals of ruining the country.

I think people leave Britain because they have this option open to them, and they have been leaving ever since boats were invented; same as the Irish.

[TommyGun]

no youv'e got it wrong ......all the "true brits"left when Thatcher was in power ,.....only now all the immigrants want to go back too!

Your way of the mark there mate: there is no difference between Thatcher/Blair/Brown - they all follow the same agenda. Do you really think they call the shots!

Maybe this will educate you: http://www.eutruth.org.uk/

Agreed.

They do not call the shots, but that is another debate.

http://officialsfp.com has info and links about this sort of stuff.

Edited November 19, 2007 by TommyGun

[Manchester]

The crap weather.

I love my country, good and bad. It is my country that has given me the capability, the skills and the language to be able to migrate.

I don,t know if I will ever return to the UK as a resident. I want to see so much in other countries whilst i still have my health.

The fact that I have these choices is because of MY country. For all of its faults.

[fletchsmile]

...

It is not a bad place to live, and sometimes I can actually miss England ...

England is full of contrasts.

It contains some of the most fair minded people in the world and some of the most racist.

I would like to think that the fair minded are in the majority.

England is a country that is happy to give second chances, and I do think that anybody can make it there.

...

I think people leave Britain because they have this option open to them, and they have been leaving ever since boats were invented; same as the Irish.

Agree with much of Garro's post. I believe the fair-minded are in the majority. A strong sense of fairness, honesty and justice are qualities that I believe run deep in the British. We do play by the rules much more than most. Of course there are exceptions, like everywhere, but they are the minority.

Another thing we often do is call a spade a spade. This is often interpreted as whingeing, complaining, being too direct, etc when actually we simply tell it as it is: good and bad. Rose tinted spectacles went out of fashion in the UK long before I was born. Some countries/people just can't seem to take criticism, particularly self-criticism, even when constructive.

Growing up in the UK, I was very happy. Lived in a nice area, safe, good friends, family, close to beautiful countryside, etc, but this still didn't stop us pointing out the things that could be better, and life had its ups and downs. Many other countries, I find the moment you point out something negative people jump on your case - Thai Visa is often like that. Sometimes the British do this self analysis a little to excess. But at least we are honest with it, and have a desire to improve, while admitting not everything is rosy.

I grew up used to seeing faults in British society, although appreciating that we had a lot of things others didn't, particularly if you watched world reports on TV or in the newspapers. When I started travelling the world, I got first hand experience of how lucky I was. I developed a pride in my country, that I'd probably overlooked, and taken for granted.

As for immigration, well we're just ahead of our time. Eventually the world will be one big place. At the moment tho' different countries are at different stages. I think the UK bit the bullet much earlier than places like Thailand on immigration. The world doesn't belong to any one person, religion or race, and eventually, most people will wake up to the idea. There'll just be growing pains over the decades and more likely centuries till it happens.

The reason I can go anywhere, do anything, is because of how much I was given, and where I was born. Sure it's not a paradise, the weather sucks some times, and the country has room for improvement. But I wouldn't be where I am today without my British start in life, freedom of choice, education, spirit of exploration, sense of fairness. Thailand brings that home to you very well. If I'd been born in NE Thailand instead of NW England life would have been very different.

Why did I leave the UK? Probably as Garro says because I can, and British people have been doing this for centuries. I stumbled across Thailand by accident on my travels, after working in other countries. I really can't say which is better Thailand or the UK. Both have their faults and good points. The ideal would be to wake up and press a button to choose which one I wanted to be in at any time. (have to admit though that most meal times would be spent in Thailand - except a few days of home cooking and Sunday roasts)

One thing is for sure, though, I do worry here in Thailand, if I'll be able to give my daughter the same start in life that I was given (as a Brit).

Edited November 19, 2007 by fletchthai68

[qwertz]

Quote Fletchthai; The reason I can go anywhere, do anything, is because of how much I was given, and where I was born. Sure it's not a paradise, the weather sucks some times, and the country has room for improvement. But I wouldn't be where I am today without my British start in life, freedom of choice, education, spirit of exploration, sense of fairness. Thailand brings that home to you very well. If I'd been born in NE Thailand instead of NW England life would have been very different.

Amen to this.

To be sure, Manchester sucks and always did IMO but England made it possible for me to be an expat in the first place, for all the above reasons.

It is however a little sad that most of the British emigrants are the very ones the UK can least afford to lose.

[cm-happy]

WHY IS IT ALWAYS THE BRITS??????

[fletchsmile]

WHY IS IT ALWAYS THE BRITS??????

Because we can read newspapers...

[howtoescape]

My father worked in shipyards as a welder and could afford a nice 3 bed house, 3 kids and a new car every 4-5years, basically he could afford a decent standard of living for doing an honest days work.

Now move on 30 years to his kids generation and a welder these days gets about 2250GBP per month, after all taxes including NI, council tax, TV licence which is estimated to be about 37% he is left with 1400GBP a month.

Now the average house price for a 3 bed semi is about 220,000GBP where we live, a mortgage of 200,000GBP at 6.5%PA is 1350 a month. (to rent the equivilant house cost about 900-1000GBP a month)

Britain is now in a position where someone earning the average wage cant support a family, if he wants to live a lifestyle similar to his fathers, one what is deamed a reasonable standard of living.

The best way to solve this probelm if you are in this situation and one i would highly recommend is going on the sick or getting a job which pays minimum wage and claiming social security benefits. You will receive about 35000 GBP a year in rent fees paid on your behalf, council tax and 500GBP a month in child tax credits, you will eventually get a council house, which you can buy in 3 years at approx 50-70%% of the properties value depending where you live or you can rent it for about 70-100GBP a week

Gordon the Economist Brown our new unelected dictator also doesnt understand the basics of supply and demand as recently he said though i cant find a quote that the huge influx of builders from the EU doesnt affect the wages of British born builders. Now when i was a 18yo i could earn 500GBP a week on a building site, now if i was doing the same job 14 years later i would still get paid the same amount. In this period i have also lost any employment rights as most tradesmen on site now are self employed, hence if a contractor decides not to pay me for work that has been passed by the developers foreman the only way to get paid right away, is to threaten violence and make sure they know i am prepared to inflict serious injury unless paid, unfortunately i had to do twice before deciding the building game was not for me several years ago.

As housing and work are 2 of the most important factors in any persons life, these 2 issues have declined in such a way for the average working man in the last 30 years that the standard of life we achieve for working hard is far lower then our fathers generation.

[chinthee]

I grew up in America, but also lived in London a few years. In terms of living the kind of life you want, no place on earth can compare with America, and that's not flag-waving, it's just true.

When I lived in England, I found it a very nice place. But, that was about 16 years ago. My understanding today, is that most native-born Brits consider themselves assaulted by the immigration issue, and see their country's fibre deteriorating in so many ways.

Not sure what to think...

[jubby]

slightly off topic but have any of you guys actually been to Manchester recently or ever ?

Manchester's a big place , full of contrasts and some of the nicest, Genuine People I've ever met.

[xyborg]

In the UK I can remember a friend of mine buying his first house in 1984ish he was earnin £100 take home pay per week and his house 3 bed mid townhouse was £21000 , same house today nearer £200000 and average salary is about £24000 a huge diference. There are also the folks who bought a reasonable size house at this time who are now cashing them in and moving where housing is cheaper. Heating is also a major expense now.

[Manchester]

slightly off topic but have any of you guys actually been to Manchester recently or ever ?

Manchester's a big place , full of contrasts and some of the nicest, Genuine People I've ever met.

I,ve been often

[fletchsmile]

slightly off topic but have any of you guys actually been to Manchester recently or ever ?

Manchester's a big place , full of contrasts and some of the nicest, Genuine People I've ever met.

Often. Was born in one of the neighbouring towns. Started my first full time job there. Now pass thru the airport every Xmas. Very accurate description

[jstumbo]

My father worked in shipyards as a welder and could afford a nice 3 bed house, 3 kids and a new car every 4-5years, basically he could afford a decent standard of living for doing an honest days work.

Now move on 30 years to his kids generation and a welder these days gets about 2250GBP per month, after all taxes including NI, council tax, TV licence which is estimated to be about 37% he is left with 1400GBP a month.

Now the average house price for a 3 bed semi is about 220,000GBP where we live, a mortgage of 200,000GBP at 6.5%PA is 1350 a month. (to rent the equivilant house cost about 900-1000GBP a month)

Britain is now in a position where someone earning the average wage cant support a family, if he wants to live a lifestyle similar to his fathers, one what is deamed a reasonable standard of living.

We have the same problem in the US. That is why most families now have both parents working. You need to, just to afford to live these days.

[OlRedEyes]

What I like about the Brits is there's no need to bash 'em. It's already a lot of fun watching them at their National Sport; bashing each other.

The Brits have emigrated since time began. They're generally an adventurous lot. Lately they seem to have to justify it with the latest whinge. Dunno why.

[Manchester]

What I like about the Brits is there's no need to bash 'em. It's already a lot of fun watching them at their National Sport; bashing each other.

The Brits have emigrated since time began. They're generally an adventurous lot. Lately they seem to have to justify it with the latest whinge. Dunno why.

You would have to be British to understand.

[JimsKnight]

I am Irish but spent the majority of my adult life living in England.

It is not a bad place to live, and sometimes I can actually miss England more than my own country.

England is full of contrasts.

It contains some of the most fair minded people in the world and some of the most racist.

I would like to think that the fair minded are in the majority.

England is a country that is happy to give second chances, and I do think that anybody can make it there.

The English have always been a mongrel race and seem to have always accused the latest arrivals of ruining the country.

I think people leave Britain because they have this option open to them, and they have been leaving ever since boats were invented; same as the Irish.

Speaking as an Irishman I'd say that every country in the world is a 'mongrel race' considering that Britain is a set of islands and mainland europe isn't I'd say the landlocked countries are just mongrels of a different race.

The rot in the UK set in after the Tudors got in and destroyed the olde worlde (Celtic/Saxon) way of life (which most other European countries managed to retain in some shape or form).

Watching how proud the thais are and seeing the flags flying everywhere makes me wish that the uk was a place worth feeling the same way about. It's a shame it's not.

Scotland is about the only country in the UK I've seen where the countrymen collectively feel pride and play the nationalist card without coming across as hardcore yobs or BNP folk.

The English part of the UK has the north/south divide that leads to a lot of discontent from the north (the poor part) because most of the wealth in the UK is down in the south of England, whereas up in the North there is hardly any (thanks to Thatcher).

The NHS and benefits agencies that provide 'free' healthcare and benefits to tax-payers are being abused and overwhelmed by immigrants (who have flooded the place, not trickled in like farangs into Thailand have). Thailand doesn't have a benefits agency or NHS so there economy won't be weakened by any 'spongers'

[howtoescape]

Scotland is about the only country in the UK I've seen where the countrymen collectively feel pride and play the nationalist card without coming across as hardcore yobs or BNP folk.

Take it your not including the sectarian divide in Glasgow.

Id sooner be BNP folk or a hardcore yob then vote for the LIB-LAB-CON way of life, which is intent and has almost succeeded on destroying the British way of life.

[kennkate]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/15/view15.xml

Been ploughing through the hundreds of contributions on the above link to this subject and there seems to be much despondency with the state of things, particularly since Labour took power.

Interested to know the opinions of fellow Brits in Thailand on what aspects of life in the UK you were so glad to leave behind and what you appreciate so much more here in Thailand. Do you find the overall quality of life here in Thailand that much better as I do?

The main aspect of life that drove me out was the increasingly worsening anti-social behaviour and all this referred to political correctness.

Good on Thailand to want to retain its identity, culture and way of life unlike Blair/Brown who are slowly destroying what I once used to recognize as my country.

One word can sum it up TAX council TAX car TAX fuel TAX Tobaco TAX Beer Wine and Spirit TAX and lets not forget wonderfull Value Added TAX at 17.5% thats on almost everything including Water Gas and electricity at 5%

[Rinrada]

Salford Quays.........wot no gas works.......

slightly off topic but have any of you guys actually been to Manchester recently or ever ?

Manchester's a big place , full of contrasts and some of the nicest, Genuine People I've ever met.

I,ve been often

[mittheimp]

My father worked in shipyards as a welder and could afford a nice 3 bed house, 3 kids and a new car every 4-5years, basically he could afford a decent standard of living for doing an honest days work.

Now move on 30 years to his kids generation and a welder these days gets about 2250GBP per month, after all taxes including NI, council tax, TV licence which is estimated to be about 37% he is left with 1400GBP a month.

Now the average house price for a 3 bed semi is about 220,000GBP where we live, a mortgage of 200,000GBP at 6.5%PA is 1350 a month. (to rent the equivilant house cost about 900-1000GBP a month)

Britain is now in a position where someone earning the average wage cant support a family, if he wants to live a lifestyle similar to his fathers, one what is deamed a reasonable standard of living.

The best way to solve this probelm if you are in this situation and one i would highly recommend is going on the sick or getting a job which pays minimum wage and claiming social security benefits. You will receive about 35000 GBP a year in rent fees paid on your behalf, council tax and 500GBP a month in child tax credits, you will eventually get a council house, which you can buy in 3 years at approx 50-70%% of the properties value depending where you live or you can rent it for about 70-100GBP a week

Gordon the Economist Brown our new unelected dictator also doesnt understand the basics of supply and demand as recently he said though i cant find a quote that the huge influx of builders from the EU doesnt affect the wages of British born builders. Now when i was a 18yo i could earn 500GBP a week on a building site, now if i was doing the same job 14 years later i would still get paid the same amount. In this period i have also lost any employment rights as most tradesmen on site now are self employed, hence if a contractor decides not to pay me for work that has been passed by the developers foreman the only way to get paid right away, is to threaten violence and make sure they know i am prepared to inflict serious injury unless paid, unfortunately i had to do twice before deciding the building game was not for me several years ago.

As housing and work are 2 of the most important factors in any persons life, these 2 issues have declined in such a way for the average working man in the last 30 years that the standard of life we achieve for working hard is far lower then our fathers generation.

If you were earning 500 quid a week as an 18 yo builder 14 years ago then can i suggest you were being seriously over paid! an average income of 24,000 pounds in 1993 was well above the national average (and if you were in the north of England ridiculously above) and for an 18 year old a huge amount of money! I think 24,000 pounds for a semi or unskilled worker today still seems generous - exactly how much should they be paid?

The nature of work has obviously changed, this is a fact of life. Manufactoring industry in a developed country in todays globalised world was never going to stay sustainable to the levels pre 1960's.

Gordon Brown is not an unelected Dictator. The UK does not have a presidential system, you never voted for the leader of this country - you voted for your local MP.

[howtoescape]

If you were earning 500 quid a week as an 18 yo builder 14 years ago then can i suggest you were being seriously over paid! an average income of 24,000 pounds in 1993 was well above the national average (and if you were in the north of England ridiculously above) and for an 18 year old a huge amount of money!

It was "price work" working on army houses in Blandford, Dorset we were working 50 hours a week to get this, the contract lasted 1 year. I would say the average then was 350GBP a week, now it is about 500GBP if you could compare similar priced jobs.

I think 24,000 pounds for a semi or unskilled worker today still seems generous - exactly how much should they be paid?

Tradesmen should be able to earn enough to be able to afford an average home and family.

The nature of work has obviously changed, this is a fact of life. Manufactoring industry in a developed country in todays globalised world was never going to stay sustainable to the levels pre 1960's.

Fair point, but if you let uncontrolled amounts of tradesmen or low skilled labour in to the country, then it is going to surpress the wages of those currently occupying those positions.

[naka]

Watching telly last night the presenter said that the new Shanghai development

of Pudong made the London docklands redevelopment look like Leggoland.

Naka.