Thais In Britain-perceptions And Experiences

[Rinrada]

Rather serious and a bit heavy but interesting presentation.....

From Census data there were a reported 16,256 people born in Thailand living in England and Wales, of which the majority were women (72 per cent).

Just under a third of the total people born in Thailand were reported to live in London (4,824), of which the majority were women (68 per cent)........so...

In an effort to broaden the conception of what it means to be 'mixed' in Britain today, I present a small study of the relationships between (or the 'mixing' of ) Thai (4) and White British people and the subsequent ethnic 'mixedness' of the children from these relationships.

Although a relatively small number of individuals, the number of Thai-White British relationships has implications for recognising the hidden diversity and experience for a unitary 'mixed' category.

This article will explore the challenges Thai-White British relationships face as ethnically mixed relationships, the strategies couples employ to confront stereotypes and the implications of the lack of positive images of Thai culture and mixed Thai relationships for mixed Thai/British children and young people.

Full Paper....

http://mixedness.millipedia.net/Default.as...001.Lang-EN.htm

with thank to CRE.and Jessica Mai Sims who is a research and policy analyst at the Runnymede Trust....and

London Southbank University.

[seonai]

Very interesting post Rinrada. I had just read here - http://www.thai-uk.org/living-in-UK.htm - (bottom left hand corner) that Thais are not even represented as a minority group in UK and they feel as such.

My son gets asked to do talks in class while he is at school here, on Buddhism and Thailand - the kids at school don't seem to have much of a concept of Thai people but their parents do and that sometimes causing taunting in school.

[kankaroo]

I get the point with the kids getting a hard time at school, but didn't we all ?

In all fairness Thai people enjoy a far more complete level of integration into UK society than the other way around (schooling wise that is).

[GuestHouse]

In all fairness Thai people enjoy a far more complete level of integration into UK society than the other way around (schooling wise that is).

Slap some double pricing, one year visas, remove rights to own property / vote, limit permanent residence to a handful per year and relegate rights to citizenship to the outer reaches of impossibility and you'd get a more balanced experience between the respective expat communities.

[mittheimp]

I think having parents from two different cultures and speaking two different languages (as a first langugage) should be a poitive thing and ought to outweigh any negativity - However it is important that kids are taught to be fluent in both languages - (although obviously easier to for a kid to learn English in thailand than Thai in England) as this will not only give greater feelings of identity - but give much more opportunities and advantages later in life.

When living in London my wife rarely if ever faced any issues with being Thai - but did often get some from people presuming she was Chinese - (shouting DVD at her etc...). However London is very different to the rest of the UK..

[Westerner]

Slap some double pricing, one year visas, remove rights to own property / vote, limit permanent residence to a handful per year and relegate rights to citizenship to the outer reaches of impossibility and you'd get a more balanced experience between the respective expat communities.

Couldn't agree more

[GuestHouse]

From the report:

Thai women have the image of being, "exotic, young, alluring, yet potentially HIV-positive 'hookers', eager to please western clients; or dutiful, devoted wives of western men who dismiss the tenets of western feminism and appreciate the financial and emotional generosity of their husbands".

The comment refers to the view the general population in the UK has of Thai women.

But if the report had said:

Thai women have the image of being, "exotic, young, alluring, eager to please western men; or dutiful, devoted wives of western men who dismiss the tenets of western feminism and appreciate the financial and emotional generosity of their husbands".

Then it is clear from another thread currently underway here on TV that many men married to Thai women would agree.

I would argue that both stereotypical views are insulting.

[technocracy]

It's all good and well people having these 'stereotypes' for Thais however for people who aren't Thai such as my wife being Lao they all get the same label.

People assume that she is Thai because of her looks and make these predefined judgements - it didn't half piss me and her off when we were in England with 'oh is she Thai' attitudes. The fact that when I tell them she is Lao, 90% of people don't know where the country is and had a blank look.

Even tarred with the same brush in the bloody British Embassy in Bangkok - since Laos doesn't have a British embassy. She has always recieved far better treatment from the Oz embassy here in Vientiane than she has EVER received from my 'home' country Embassy!

It's a very unfortunate thing the stereotyping of all female Thais however for a large amount it is actually true. All the Thai wifes my wife met in the UK were telling her all about how they were waiting for the there husband to die so they could get a new man now that they were over in the UK (well until they she told them she was Lao . . then they didn't say nothing more on the subject!) . . . a sad indictment really.

The guy the interview comes up with a corking quote:

When people hear that I am married to a Thai they always want to tell me a story which is along the lines of: a guy who's a friend of a friend who was an old guy who took a young girl from Thailand who stole all his money and ran off (this seems to be an urban myth).

Of course this never happens!

Edited November 19, 2007 by technocracy

[fletchsmile]

Personally found the article boring/disappointing. The post looked interesting and a topic worth exploring. Actually, everything of interest, in terms of fact, is written on the first post above. A bit like a poor B movie where all the interesting bits are in the trailer, and then you feel cheated after watching the movie, as you've already seen all the parts worth seeing, before the movie started.

After the few lines above, the rest just comes across as a high school essay with a few references. Full marks for choice of topic. One out of 10 for content after the taster. Promised a lot. Delivered little. Your average high school kid could have written similar after reading Thai Visa for a couple of hours. Not much there except stereotypes. I've never experienced stereotyping with my wife while visiting the UK, so couldn't really relate to life in the UK like that. Thailand perhaps. I'm pretty sure I'm not in the minority, and am sure if you asked a much wider range of people in the UK you'd get a wider picture.

That said: I'd like to see the Little Britain sketches, with the stereotypes Ting Tong Macadangdang and Dudley. They sound like they could be funny.

Edited November 19, 2007 by fletchthai68

[mittheimp]

It's all good and well people having these 'stereotypes' for Thais however for people who aren't Thai such as my wife being Lao they all get the same label.

People assume that she is Thai because of her looks and make these predefined judgements - it didn't half piss me and her off when we were in England with 'oh is she Thai' attitudes. The fact that when I tell them she is Lao, 90% of people don't know where the country is and had a blank look.

Even tarred with the same brush in the bloody British Embassy in Bangkok - since Laos doesn't have a British embassy. She has always recieved far better treatment from the Oz embassy here in Vientiane than she has EVER received from my 'home' country Embassy!

It's a very unfortunate thing the stereotyping of all female Thais however for a large amount it is actually true. All the Thai wifes my wife met in the UK were telling her all about how they were waiting for the there husband to die so they could get a new man now that they were over in the UK (well until they she told them she was Lao . . then they didn't say nothing more on the subject!) . . . a sad indictment really.

The guy the interview comes up with a corking quote:

When people hear that I am married to a Thai they always want to tell me a story which is along the lines of: a guy who's a friend of a friend who was an old guy who took a young girl from Thailand who stole all his money and ran off (this seems to be an urban myth).

Of course this never happens!

errrr......

So Stereotyping Thais is fine, as you seem happy to do, but not people from Lao!!!

A more idiotic post i couldn't find!

[technocracy]

errrr......

So Stereotyping Thais is fine, as you seem happy to do, but not people from Lao!!!

A more idiotic post i couldn't find!

How come I expected this kind of brainless reply.

You seem to be missing the understanding of what 'stereotype' actually means let the online dictionary help:

A simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group.

This stereotype that Thai women have gained is due to Thailand being one of the biggest (if not the biggest) sex tourism countries in the world. Just to clarify we are talking about the women here - not Thais in general understand that much!

So what is Thailand and the women of Thailand doing to remove this stereotype? Are gogo bars, massage palours and bars closing down? Nope. Do the police enforce the laws regarding prositution? Nope. Do many young Thai women look for old rich westerners for financial reason rather than love? Yep. Do these women often con these said westerners and have numerous boyfriends/husbands? Yep. Is often the only time Thailand get mentioned in western newspapers is it related to hookers in Pattaya et al? Yep. Has Thailand been seen as a sex tourism destination by the west for many decades? Yep.

So go on tell me how is the stereotype ever going to change? Are Thailand going to enforce laws and get rid of the mass sex trade? The only reason the stereotype exist is because it's based on what western people know about Thailand and many of them backed up by the numerous stories of western men being conned, robbed, beaten or even murdered in Thailand over women.

The fact is that all Thai women who have never been involved in the sex industry in the west will get tarred with this brush, regardless. The problem they have is Thailand and Thai women are doing nothing to change it - they are happy to take the money but not any criticism that might follow.

For everyone with Thai wives who recieves some kind of bad treatment due to this stereotype - I feel sorry for them it isn't nice, it shouldn't happen and isn't 'fine' (as you seem assume I think) - however like I say the stereotype isn't going to change, not for a long time.

So how do you think my wife feels when people tar her with the Thai women stereotype not even being from Thailand, let alone visited Pattaya, Phuket or where ever? I'll tell you pissed off with Thailand and Thai women - that's exactly how she feels/felt since due them she immediately gets classified as a 'hooker' or a 'bought wife'. She was made to feel uncomfortable on several occasions in the UK purely for being SE Asian looking due Thai womens exploits.

Question for you - your in a small english village you are walking down the street and you notice on the other side of the road an elderly gent late 60s, early 70s walking with a 20 something asian girl. What is are your immediate thoughts? No that isn't me my wife is 27 and I am 33 - but it is actually something I saw in my own town. Be honest with your answer!

[mittheimp]

errrr......

So Stereotyping Thais is fine, as you seem happy to do, but not people from Lao!!!

A more idiotic post i couldn't find!

How come I expected this kind of brainless reply.

You seem to be missing the understanding of what 'stereotype' actually means let the online dictionary help:

A simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group.

This stereotype that Thai women have gained is due to Thailand being one of the biggest (if not the biggest) sex tourism countries in the world. Just to clarify we are talking about the women here - not Thais in general understand that much!

So what is Thailand and the women of Thailand doing to remove this stereotype? Are gogo bars, massage palours and bars closing down? Nope. Do the police enforce the laws regarding prositution? Nope. Do many young Thai women look for old rich westerners for financial reason rather than love? Yep. Do these women often con these said westerners and have numerous boyfriends/husbands? Yep. Is often the only time Thailand get mentioned in western newspapers is it related to hookers in Pattaya et al? Yep. Has Thailand been seen as a sex tourism destination by the west for many decades? Yep.

So go on tell me how is the stereotype ever going to change? Are Thailand going to enforce laws and get rid of the mass sex trade? The only reason the stereotype exist is because it's based on what western people know about Thailand and many of them backed up by the numerous stories of western men being conned, robbed, beaten or even murdered in Thailand over women.

The fact is that all Thai women who have never been involved in the sex industry in the west will get tarred with this brush, regardless. The problem they have is Thailand and Thai women are doing nothing to change it - they are happy to take the money but not any criticism that might follow.

For everyone with Thai wives who recieves some kind of bad treatment due to this stereotype - I feel sorry for them it isn't nice, it shouldn't happen and isn't 'fine' (as you seem assume I think) - however like I say the stereotype isn't going to change, not for a long time.

So how do you think my wife feels when people tar her with the Thai women stereotype not even being from Thailand, let alone visited Pattaya, Phuket or where ever? I'll tell you pissed off with Thailand and Thai women - that's exactly how she feels/felt since due them she immediately gets classified as a 'hooker' or a 'bought wife'. She was made to feel uncomfortable on several occasions in the UK purely for being SE Asian looking due Thai womens exploits.

Question for you - your in a small english village you are walking down the street and you notice on the other side of the road an elderly gent late 60s, early 70s walking with a 20 something asian girl. What is are your immediate thoughts? No that isn't me my wife is 27 and I am 33 - but it is actually something I saw in my own town. Be honest with your answer!

emm....

Obviously some Thai women fit the Thai women stereotype - your rambling post seems to be blaming all Thai women and Thailand in general for any stereotype that your wife receives. Actually it is not just Thai women that receive this stereotype - but often East Asian women in general - Fillipino, Vietnamese Chinese and even Japanese.

My wife also faced occasional similar assumptions about her, (but i guess being Thai she had no one to blame but herself..as she is apparantly happy to take the money but not any criticism that might follow!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!) even though she is as far removed from the Thai sex industry than someone born in Eastborne or Hastings!! Fortunately she had the wit and the temperament not be bothered by it as any one who actually knows her is patently aware that this was not the case! Sadly most minorities face some kind of discrimination -Fortunately East Asians (with the possible exception of the chinese) tend to have to deal with far less prejudice than South Asians and Afo-Caribbeans in the UK. Even as a white man in South Korea i face the occasional prejudice .... that i must be sexually devient and disease ridden by certain, usually older members of Korean society!

and what do i think if i see an elderly man - 60's or 70's with a 20 year old Asian girl? Well what do you think people think when your wife is walking around with her father in law?

I dont believe i have ever seen a twenty year old girl walking as a couple with a seventy year old man anywhere - including Bangkok... although im sure its happened one or two times!!!

[fletchsmile]

errrr......

So Stereotyping Thais is fine, as you seem happy to do, but not people from Lao!!!

A more idiotic post i couldn't find!

How come I expected this kind of brainless reply.

You seem to be missing the understanding of what 'stereotype' actually means let the online dictionary help:

A simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group.

This stereotype that Thai women have gained is due to Thailand being one of the biggest (if not the biggest) sex tourism countries in the world. Just to clarify we are talking about the women here - not Thais in general understand that much!

So what is Thailand and the women of Thailand doing to remove this stereotype? Are gogo bars, massage palours and bars closing down? Nope. Do the police enforce the laws regarding prositution? Nope. Do many young Thai women look for old rich westerners for financial reason rather than love? Yep. Do these women often con these said westerners and have numerous boyfriends/husbands? Yep. Is often the only time Thailand get mentioned in western newspapers is it related to hookers in Pattaya et al? Yep. Has Thailand been seen as a sex tourism destination by the west for many decades? Yep.

So go on tell me how is the stereotype ever going to change? Are Thailand going to enforce laws and get rid of the mass sex trade? The only reason the stereotype exist is because it's based on what western people know about Thailand and many of them backed up by the numerous stories of western men being conned, robbed, beaten or even murdered in Thailand over women.

The fact is that all Thai women who have never been involved in the sex industry in the west will get tarred with this brush, regardless. The problem they have is Thailand and Thai women are doing nothing to change it - they are happy to take the money but not any criticism that might follow.

For everyone with Thai wives who recieves some kind of bad treatment due to this stereotype - I feel sorry for them it isn't nice, it shouldn't happen and isn't 'fine' (as you seem assume I think) - however like I say the stereotype isn't going to change, not for a long time.

So how do you think my wife feels when people tar her with the Thai women stereotype not even being from Thailand, let alone visited Pattaya, Phuket or where ever? I'll tell you pissed off with Thailand and Thai women - that's exactly how she feels/felt since due them she immediately gets classified as a 'hooker' or a 'bought wife'. She was made to feel uncomfortable on several occasions in the UK purely for being SE Asian looking due Thai womens exploits.

Question for you - your in a small english village you are walking down the street and you notice on the other side of the road an elderly gent late 60s, early 70s walking with a 20 something asian girl. What is are your immediate thoughts? No that isn't me my wife is 27 and I am 33 - but it is actually something I saw in my own town. Be honest with your answer!

While I sympathise with you and your wife being on the receiving end of stereotyping, I can't honestly say you're any different than the rest of us with SE Asian wives, that get tarred with the same brush, regardless of accuracy. The fact is most poor SE Asian countries have similar problems. Laos included. So it's pretty pointless blaming any one country.

Just google Lao + prostitution, or Lao + drugs, Lao + society problems etc, and you'll see for yourself your wife's country is hardly whiter than white on these issues. The fact so much of it was driven underground by a repressive regime for a few years, doesn't mean it isn't there. Lao is the third largest Opium producer in Asia, (after Burma and Afghanistan). Would that make it acceptable to label you and your wife druggies instead? My view is it wouldn't, but applying your logic "if the stereotype fits wear it".

What about all the Laos prostitutes that work in Thailand, particulaly around border towns? Aren't they giving Thais a bad name? Just read any UNICEF, NGO report etc if you think it doesn't exist. Perhaps your wife ought to read a little more before singling out others. eg 5 second google search on Lao society problems

http://rfaunplugged.wordpress.com/2007/02/...sian-sex-trade/

One common trait I've noticed is that most of the SE Asian countries blame another country for each of their own problems. Ask a Thai and they'll blame prostitution on the Chinese or foreigners. Obvioulsy ask a Lao and they blame the Thais.

Seems you're both simply deflecting prejudice onto other others, instead of standing up to the bigots. In doing so you just perpetutate other stereotypes. You feel like victims, but what goes around comes around.

Question in turn for you: isn't your wife just displaying the same bigotry and prejudice that she receives. I believe if you go back to your on-line dictionary and look at the word "hypocrit" you'll get your answer.

Sorry if that seems harsh. It's not pleasant being on the receiving end. It's wrong, and most of us know that. But blaming other people is not the answer.

Edited November 20, 2007 by fletchthai68

[technocracy]

Let me just make this short and sweet as you and Fletch seem to be missing my point.

The stereotype that exists for Thai women is not going to change unless Thailand changes it's outside image to the world . . . clear?

I am not saying "if the stereotype fits wear it" - but lets just explore your comparison a second - Laos 'used to be' one of the primary Opium cultivators in the world, however over the past 10 years they have with the help of UNODC have now actually declared themselves Opium free. They even have reabilitation centres in Luang Prabang. They have done something to remove that stereotype . . . Thailand has done what about its sex tourism?

I am fully aware of the problems of the border towns and prostitution - so are the NGO groups which you mention . . . so there again they are attempting to stop it. The sex trade here is discreet - much as it is in the UK - it's there but it's discreet. Can't say the same for Thailand though can we.

You question doesn't seem to have a '?' so I'll take it more as a comment. I have already made it clear about my wifes thought so I don't need expand on them.

As for the elderly gent and his wife . . . I bumped into him a few week later when I was out with my wife and you know what the first thing he asked . . 'is she Thai?'

Stereotypes eh!

[fletchsmile]

Let me just make this short and sweet as you and Fletch seem to be missing my point.

The stereotype that exists for Thai women is not going to change unless Thailand changes it's outside image to the world . . . clear?

I am not saying "if the stereotype fits wear it" - but lets just explore your comparison a second - Laos 'used to be' one of the primary Opium cultivators in the world, however over the past 10 years they have with the help of UNODC have now actually declared themselves Opium free. They even have reabilitation centres in Luang Prabang. They have done something to remove that stereotype . . . Thailand has done what about its sex tourism?

I am fully aware of the problems of the border towns and prostitution - so are the NGO groups which you mention . . . so there again they are attempting to stop it. The sex trade here is discreet - much as it is in the UK - it's there but it's discreet. Can't say the same for Thailand though can we.

You question doesn't seem to have a '?' so I'll take it more as a comment. I have already made it clear about my wifes thought so I don't need expand on them.

As for the elderly gent and his wife . . . I bumped into him a few week later when I was out with my wife and you know what the first thing he asked . . 'is she Thai?'

Stereotypes eh!

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=7875

Survey shows grim reality of Lao sex trade

If Lao women could be helped to learn a trade, perhaps as beauticians or weavers, and move on to higher education, this would reduce the number who engage in sex work

Monday, February 12, 2007By RFA Lao women seeking to escape poverty and poor education are increasingly ending up as sex workers in Laos and neighboring Thailand, mainly to support their families and themselves, experts say. Though many consider it “bad work,” they believe prostitution amounts to the best economic opportunity they have, according to a survey of sex workers conducted last year in the country’s capital, Vientiane.

Many are children when they start, trafficked or tricked into the sex trade.

“Every one of them said they don’t want to do it,” Thatsaphone Sombandith, a Lao researcher who conducted the survey, said in an interview. “They say it’s necessary because of poverty, because they have nothing to live on.”

With an estimated per capita income of U.S.$460 in 2005, Laos is one of the poorest countries in East Asia. Classified by the United Nations as a Least Developed Country in 2004, 71 percent of its population live on less than U.S.$2 a day, and 23 percent on less than U.S.$1 a day.

Lao women, many of whom work in bars called “little shops,” come from different provinces to work in Vientiane, Thatsaphone said. “They come from Luang Namtha, from Luang Prabang, from Sayaboury…from Khammouane.”

<H4 class=subhead>Vulnerable to disease</H4>Many become infected with sexually transmitted diseases, Thatsaphone added. “Depending on the place, on the area of the shop, they get infected,” Thatsaphone said. “Almost the entire shop is infected.”

If Lao women could be helped to learn a trade, perhaps as beauticians or weavers, and move on to higher education, this would reduce the number who engage in sex work, Thatsaphone said.

Low levels of education have been identified as one of the greatest barriers to sustainable development in Laos. While education to 18 is free, there aren't enough classrooms and educational supplies to make this a reality.

As a result, only 77 percent of Lao men are literate, while only 60 percent of women can read and write.

Soudalai Onavong, a Lao provincial health official, said that in Laos’s Khammouane province, sex workers “most often are found near the large construction projects” such as the Nam Theun II hydroelectric dam or the cement works at Nakai.

In Savannakhet province, according to the head of the provincial health department, Lao women—along with women from Vietnam and Thailand—provide sexual services along Route 9, Laos’s so-called “East-West economic corridor.”

<H4 class=subhead>Young girls at risk</H4>She called the situation “very disheartening.”

UNICEF spokesman Geoffrey Keele said Lao girls aged 14 to 18 are particularly at risk.

“Most of them come from semi-rural backgrounds, semi-urban backgrounds and frequently are either lured into the sex trade or are frequently tricked into it by promises of other jobs,” Keele said.

In a 2000 United Nations study in Laos, said Keele, “a majority of children who were working in the sex trade were found at various kinds of entertainment establishments: beer halls, truck stops on different transit routes within Laos, places like that, and they were not only used for sex but as bartenders and waitresses.”

“Part of their job was to provide beer, get the men drunk, and then offer sexual services,” Keele said.

<H4 class=subhead>Hundreds of child victims</H4>Frank Reimann, Laos country director for CARE International, said it is "extremely difficult" to gauge the scope of the sex industry in Laos, although recent government clampdowns on the entertainment industry have affected the overall picture.

"This has pushed the sex workers into other modes of operation such as through the mobile phone system, meeting at guest houses rather than clubs," Reimann said by e-mail.

"Also the past few years has seen an increase in young women from college being recruited into the sex industry. The scope of the problem appears to have both increased and diversified."

An estimated 200,000 to 225,000 women and children are trafficked from Southeast Asia annually. A 2003 survey by the International Labor Organization (ILO) estimated that hundreds of Lao children may have fallen victims to child traffickers in the three years preceding publication of the survey.

More than half of Lao children ages 15 to 17 who left to work in Thailand from three southern Laotian provinces had not been heard from since leaving home; a similar number of younger children (ages 10 to 14) had not contacted their families either.

The ILO survey found that Lao girls were particularly vulnerable to cross-border traffickers and often end up in exploitative conditions, including prostitution, forced labor, and domestic servitude.

Keele said that UNICEF works “very closely” with the government of Laos to develop child-protection networks in cooperation with police forces, social workers, and counselors.

Also speaking to RFA, acting director Paula Goode of the U.S. State Department’s Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons, said Laos had made “modest progress” last year in meeting minimum standards for combatting sexual trafficking across its borders into Thailand.

Last year, said Goode, Laos was ranked at Tier 3, a ranking assigned to the worst-performing countries by her office in its annual report to the U.S. Congress.

“Through the summer, in regard to an action plan that we gave the Laos government, they made some modest progress toward raising their ranking. And so they were upgraded in September to Tier 2, Watch List,” Goode said.

But she added: “There needs to be more law enforcement. There need to be more arrests, more prosecutions of traffickers.”

[technocracy]

Survey shows grim reality of Lao sex trade

......

I've read that article previously thanks.

Laos has a relatively minor sex trade problem in comparison to Thailand or even Cambodia . . your point is what?

Like I said previously Laos has a sex trade and also as that article highlights the fact that Laos is very poor in comparison to the surrounding countries women are being lured by the money.

Most countries in the world have a sex trade problem even highly developed western countries - but most of them don't a full time sex tourism market.

Why don't you use that there google to do a quick search for Thailand sex trade and read the thousands of links it gives.

[RoyalOrchid]

It is so funny sometimes how people are angry with the stereotypes being stuck to Thai women...But stereotypes do come from somewhere, and certainly have a well established ground underneath them, be it experiences that many westerners went through while visiting Thailand or stories that many people tell to their friends back home. Otherwise why would suddenly somebody say such bad things about Thai women? Stereotypes are build from most obvious and most vivid things that you see, come in touch with etc. So we already all know what these things are here... When you marry Thai/ Asian women or have Thai/Asian girlfriend these are the stereotypes that you will have to face. Especially in Farang countries.

[fletchsmile]

It is so funny sometimes how people are angry with the stereotypes being stuck to Thai women...But stereotypes do come from somewhere, and certainly have a well established ground underneath them, be it experiences that many westerners went through while visiting Thailand or stories that many people tell to their friends back home. Otherwise why would suddenly somebody say such bad things about Thai women? Stereotypes are build from most obvious and most vivid things that you see, come in touch with etc. So we already all know what these things are here... When you marry Thai/ Asian women or have Thai/Asian girlfriend these are the stereotypes that you will have to face. Especially in Farang countries.

Not quite sure all stereotypes are so cut and dry in terms of origin. Irish + stupid, Scottish + stingy, Welsh + sheep!, English + stuffy, French + lack of soap, Germans + no sense of humour, Greeks + little boys, Cambodia/Laos + sick child prostitution, Swiss + boring, Chinese + money, Thais + hookers, Phillipinos/Indonesians + maids; Popey + Spinach (actually this one was due to a mistake, Spinach has little in the way of strength). Some you can see why, some you can't.

It can be harsh though sometimes on the remainder who get labelled, when it's taken to excess. The above quick list shows it to be common across the world.

As for dealing with it:

Yes I think most of us with SE Asian wives know what we are letting ourselves in for. Thailand is unfortunate in some ways that it's popularity as a tourist destination in SE Asia, for being a safe, exotic, country, puts it more centre stage than some of it's peers like Phillipines, Cambodia, Laos, Burma, which have similar problems but are less frequented due to safety issues or the regimes in power. Watch any Hollywood movie, and if they want an exotic SE Asian country as part of the storyline, Thailand comes up, because it's well known. That said the Thais do also bring a fair bit on themselves, by setting up places like Pattaya.

My view is things start to get out of hand when people take them too seriously, and believes a whole country fits the profile. The answer lies in eradicating poverty, and educating people on all sides. No point blaming other people all the time, everyone needs to do their bit.

Personally on a normal day, we just ignore the Thai stereotyping of my wife, or me as a farang, unless someone became really abusive or aggressive. On a bad day it can be a little irritating, but then again so can most things on a bad day. I wouldn't exactly class it as important in life, though, and see no harm in trying to educate people.

On the other hand, on a good day (more common), you can have a laugh at the Thai/farang stereotypes, and yourselves. Hence I'd still like to see some of those Little Britain sketches mentioned, about Dudley and Ting Tong. Got to admit they sound funny.

[fletchsmile]

Survey shows grim reality of Lao sex trade

......

I've read that article previously thanks.

Laos has a relatively minor sex trade problem in comparison to Thailand or even Cambodia . . your point is what?

Main points:

1) Laos has all the same issues. Just less well published as the regime supresses information, fewer people visit Laos, and it's a smaller country. As you point out very few people in UK know about Laos.

2) Your basic argument of being upset at the Thais because people think your wife looks like a Thai hooker, just puts you in the same class as the original bigots when you argue: "that's unfair, it's the Thais who are prostitutes not Lao people". Sorry if you can't see the irony/hypocrisy in that. Honestly? It comes across as the bullied school kid who then goes and picks on someone else to vent their frustration. There are 30mio+ plus Thai ladies in Thailand not in the sex industry, just like your wife. Sure you're unhappy, but why don't take you it out on the real culprits if you need to take it out on someone and can't just let it pass. Personally I don't see why your wife doesn't just say: "I'm Lao" and leave it at that. Why the need to put others down, to make yourself feel better?

[mittheimp]

Let me just make this short and sweet as you and Fletch seem to be missing my point.

The stereotype that exists for Thai women is not going to change unless Thailand changes it's outside image to the world . . . clear?

I am not saying "if the stereotype fits wear it" - but lets just explore your comparison a second - Laos 'used to be' one of the primary Opium cultivators in the world, however over the past 10 years they have with the help of UNODC have now actually declared themselves Opium free. They even have reabilitation centres in Luang Prabang. They have done something to remove that stereotype . . . Thailand has done what about its sex tourism?

I am fully aware of the problems of the border towns and prostitution - so are the NGO groups which you mention . . . so there again they are attempting to stop it. The sex trade here is discreet - much as it is in the UK - it's there but it's discreet. Can't say the same for Thailand though can we.

You question doesn't seem to have a '?' so I'll take it more as a comment. I have already made it clear about my wifes thought so I don't need expand on them.

As for the elderly gent and his wife . . . I bumped into him a few week later when I was out with my wife and you know what the first thing he asked . . 'is she Thai?'

Stereotypes eh!

I don't think we are missing your point! You have made several points none of them very coherently - the main one seems to be that you wish your wife wasn't presumed to be Thai as Thai women have a negative stereotype which the country and the women have largely brought upon themselves! Where as Laos is a poor country and anything negative that happens to Laos and its people is due to it being exploited by wealthier nations. I said previously that a more stupid post i couldn't find, and I stand by that.

Out of interest if you met someone who was aware of Laos as a country but presumed all its citizens were crazy communists that took part and persecuted the Hmong people would you be happier with that? Or has your wife actually attempted to help these people and eradicate the persecution? its a ridiculously pedantic point - but follows the logic you seem to be using! which seems to support the view that although my wife has as little to do with prostitution as yours - the accident of her birth - making her Thai - means she is more deserving of the stereotype than someone from Laos because the Thai government has done little to discourage prostitution. If you disagree with that conclusion please reread your previous posts and tell me where i am wrong!

As for the elderly gent and his wife . . . I bumped into him a few week later when I was out with my wife and you know what the first thing he asked . . 'is she Thai?'

...and Koreans continually get mistaken for Japanese!!! So what!

[mrbojangles]

It's such a shame that threads like this, always lead down the same path. Instead of looking at many of the other issues associated with mixed-race marriages. I.E cultures, food, language, religion and the role the "foreign person" plays in the community. Oh well

[Manchester]

I can,t say that my Thai wife ever had a problem back home.

There again..........she thinks most farangs in the UK are lager louts, agressive, yobbish and are frequently involved in petty crime and criminal damage. ( Not me of course )

[mrbojangles]

I can,t say that my Thai wife ever had a problem back home.

There again..........she thinks most farangs in the UK are lager louts, agressive, yobbish and are frequently involved in petty crime and criminal damage. ( Not me of course )

So she has now got a "stereotypical" view of UK people, which is totally wrong. Maybe you took her to the wrong sort of places.

[Manchester]

I can,t say that my Thai wife ever had a problem back home.

There again..........she thinks most farangs in the UK are lager louts, agressive, yobbish and are frequently involved in petty crime and criminal damage. ( Not me of course )

So she has now got a "stereotypical" view of UK people, which is totally wrong. Maybe you took her to the wrong sort of places.

Nah...............just what she has seen in Thailand with tourists.

Wrong places? Only the nice places. Worsley.

To be perfectly honest..............neither of us give a flying &lt;deleted&gt; what other people think. We are content.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Manchester

[mrbojangles]

To be perfectly honest..............neither of us give a flying &lt;deleted&gt; what other people think. We are content.

Good on yer

And at least the "louts" in Worsley, wear Suits. And not just for Court

[TheDon]

Everyone stereo types. Its a part life.

I mean i think all americans are fat, but we all know not all are. When my mate said he picked up this american tourist at the pub I instally thought she would be fat and arrogant, I was right too but we all do it.

[Manchester]

To be perfectly honest..............neither of us give a flying &lt;deleted&gt; what other people think. We are content.

Good on yer

And at least the "louts" in Worsley, wear Suits. And not just for Court

This is true.

Much more fun being hit on the head with a fine French wine bottle than a stinky old bottle of Stella anyday!

[Gravelrash]

Sorry guys, the downside to marrying a Thai girl regardless of background is that she may well be considered a whore back home. Often for good reason.

I previously had a large Thai restaurant in farangland, and yes my wife spoke with all the the Thai girls that came in with spouses in tow. And yes It was not a pretty picture overall, most, yes most, were just there for citizenship, rip off the husband for what they could and then go on to find a really rich guy to do the same again.

I was was married to a Thai, and hated the stereotype too, but it is unfortunately the (not all, but too many) Thai women that keep reinforcing it. My (ex) wife eventually got so disgusted with it that she stopped claimming to be Thai and said she was Chinese (she was Thai-Chinese). She was utterly ashamed to claim to be Thai outside of Thailand.

Make of these comments what you will.

[technocracy]

Sorry guys, the downside to marrying a Thai girl regardless of background is that she may well be considered a whore back home. Often for good reason.

I previously had a large Thai restaurant in farangland, and yes my wife spoke with all the the Thai girls that came in with spouses in tow. And yes It was not a pretty picture overall, most, yes most, were just there for citizenship, rip off the husband for what they could and then go on to find a really rich guy to do the same again.

I was was married to a Thai, and hated the stereotype too, but it is unfortunately the (not all, but too many) Thai women that keep reinforcing it. My (ex) wife eventually got so disgusted with it that she stopped claimming to be Thai and said she was Chinese (she was Thai-Chinese). She was utterly ashamed to claim to be Thai outside of Thailand.

Make of these comments what you will.

Ahh someone else who has experienced the stark light of reality!

Like I say sad but even sadder that it gets tarred to nearly all asian looking women with western husbands.

You'll no doubt be told your ex wife is bigot and hypocrit now . . .

Edited November 21, 2007 by technocracy

[RoyalOrchid]

How about western women bringing back home Asian men? Interesting, what kind of stereotypes you get then...