Would You Pay A Bribe

Begs · August 22, 2004

This is for all the English Teachers ( criminals ) that do not have a work permit.

A Thai Immigration policeman earns about 7 - 8,000 baht a month....You are working Illegaly earning a lot more than that.

He could arrest you and have you deported.

Would you be willing to pay the Immigration Policeman part of your salary every month to continue in your criminal activities ( Teaching without a work permit ) ?

Or would you think that he is wrong and acting in a Criminal manner?

kenkannif · August 22, 2004

I think it would be far more likely that the school would actually pay the bribe (and it's not been unknown for this to happen, although not recently!).

Harry Palmer · August 22, 2004

i have paid the occasion traffic bribe, not voluntarily, but it seemed the thing to do at the time, only talking about the odd 100B here though...

as far as paying protection money on a regular basis to a cop or other thai official then no way jose... Madame Palmer's daddy is a cop with some clout... so it would be easy for me to have it sorted out quite quickly...

i would add that if someone out there is paying a bribe of this kind, personally... then pm me & i'll see what can be done...

RamdomChances · August 22, 2004

Why just limit this thread to theachers, shurly it applies to all falangs working here illegaly, why not move it to the "genral Topics"

Or have you just got an axe to grind with the teachers?

Oh I'm not a teacher, I work often here, and would have no problem paying bribes.

Yohan · August 22, 2004

To pay half of the traffic fine, and he lets me drive on.....

Saves time and money, I would say.

Paying a bribe for a working permit makes sense to me -

however to pay monthly for continue to work without a work permit?

Never had such a situation however.... difficult to say, but maybe better to leave the country, come back, moving to a new address and looking for another illegal job somewhere else...

falong · August 22, 2004

Why just limit this thread to theachers, shurly it applies to all falangs working here illegaly, why not move it to the "genral Topics"
Or have you just got an axe to grind with the teachers?

Oh I'm not a teacher, I work often here, and would have no problem paying bribes.

I agree. Teachers are not the only ones working here illegally.

Ijustwannateach · August 22, 2004

Moderators, could you please reign in this obsession with working without a work permit? I believe there are now THREE threads focussing on this issue, which is probably three too many.

"Steven"

RamdomChances · August 22, 2004

No two have been locked already

I think its a valid thread, as long as its not just aimed at teachers

ThaiGirlTeen · August 22, 2004

Moderators, could you please reign in this obsession with working without a work permit? I believe there are now THREE threads focussing on this issue, which is probably three too many.
"Steven"

Why do you care?

Do you not have a work permit?

That means you are breaking the law, do you think this is right?

Farang think they can do what they want in Thailand.

Ijustwannateach · August 22, 2004

Then, if it's addressed to everyone, it should be moved to "General Topics." The issue has been rather thoroughly discussed here already.

"Steven"

mbkudu · August 22, 2004

Farang think they can do what they want in Thailand.

This is a good one; and Thais don't think the same? Spare me the self-righteousness.

mbkudu · August 22, 2004

This is for all the English Teachers ( criminals ) that do not have a work permit.
A Thai Immigration policeman earns about 7 - 8,000 baht a month....You are working Illegaly earning a lot more than that.

He could arrest you and have you deported.

Would you be willing to pay the Immigration Policeman part of your salary every month to continue in your criminal activities ( Teaching without a work permit ) ?

Or would you think that he is wrong and acting in a Criminal manner?

Begs, I really think you should be addressing your angst ridden questions on this subject to Thais who need to learn English in Thailand affordably. If work permit regulations, deportation of illegal teachers and blacklisting were all enforced strickly in Thailand, costs for learning English for Thais would soar to astronomical levels. I understand your steadfastness in upholding the law, but your lack of experience in this business has blinded you to the realities of the situation that foreign teachers, language schools and students are working with.

Here is one example: A good friend of mine who has lived in Thailand for nearly 15 years is a British retiree, 68 years old. He doesn't need to work, but likes to keep himself active in his community by teaching English on a part time basis.

The school where he is employed gives him between 4-6 hours of work per week.

He does not qualify for a work permit and has never asked for one. It would be silly to go through such a process for someone who works so little. His pay is very low, but he enjoys his work and his students are grateful for him being there.

Is this such a crime that requires arrest, deportation, and blacklisting? His students would laugh in your face if you answered yes to this question.

konangrit · August 23, 2004

I'm not an English teacher, but if I had the choice of being deported or paying a bribe I'd pay the bribe. Do you honestly expect anyone to choose deportation?

Martin_F · August 23, 2004

This is for all the English Teachers ( criminals ) that do not have a work permit.
A Thai Immigration policeman earns about 7 - 8,000 baht a month....You are working Illegaly earning a lot more than that.

He could arrest you and have you deported.

Would you be willing to pay the Immigration Policeman part of your salary every month to continue in your criminal activities ( Teaching without a work permit ) ?

Or would you think that he is wrong and acting in a Criminal manner?

Begs, I really think you should be addressing your angst ridden questions on this subject to Thais who need to learn English in Thailand affordably. If work permit regulations, deportation of illegal teachers and blacklisting were all enforced strickly in Thailand, costs for learning English for Thais would soar to astronomical levels. I understand your steadfastness in upholding the law, but your lack of experience in this business has blinded you to the realities of the situation that foreign teachers, language schools and students are working with.

Here is one example: A good friend of mine who has lived in Thailand for nearly 15 years is a British retiree, 68 years old. He doesn't need to work, but likes to keep himself active in his community by teaching English on a part time basis.

The school where he is employed gives him between 4-6 hours of work per week.

He does not qualify for a work permit and has never asked for one. It would be silly to go through such a process for someone who works so little. His pay is very low, but he enjoys his work and his students are grateful for him being there.

Is this such a crime that requires arrest, deportation, and blacklisting? His students would laugh in your face if you answered yes to this question.

There are problems like this everywhere in the world.

The main problem in Thailand is that residency in Thailand does not give the 'alien' any other rights other than staying in Thailand.

There should be exemptions for small amounts of work, especially in the case of retirees who would like to help out and get a little pocket money, probably to buy text books etc.

The same applies to myself, and other 'alien' married husbands, we can only do the work as stipulated on the work permit.

But we come and settle here and we have to accept the rules and regulations here. If we don't like them then we should leave.

Enough said.

konangrit · August 23, 2004

Moderators, could you please reign in this obsession with working without a work permit? I believe there are now THREE threads focussing on this issue, which is probably three too many.
"Steven"

Why do you care?

Do you not have a work permit?

That means you are breaking the law, do you think this is right?

Farang think they can do what they want in Thailand.

Come off it, people from all nationalities work illegaly all over the world. I'm sure there are many Thais working illegaly in the west but I wouldn't come out with the sweeping statement that "Thais think they can do what they want in the west".

Yohan · August 23, 2004

The main problem in Thailand is that residency in Thailand does not give the 'alien' any other rights other than staying in Thailand.
There should be exemptions for small amounts of work, especially in the case of retirees who would like to help out and get a little pocket money, probably to buy text books etc.

The same applies to myself, and other 'alien' married husbands, we can only do the work as stipulated on the work permit.

But we come and settle here and we have to accept the rules and regulations here. If we don't like them then we should leave.

Enough said.

Immigration Laws in Thailand are outdated and require a complete revision.

Here in Japan the old Immigration Law was totally revised 1986 (it dated back to 1860) in many important points, like gender equality (now foreign wife or foreign husband is the same by law, and Japanese is a Japanese, man/woman does not matter) and also a revision of the labour regulations for foreigners.

The result was a new Immigration Law, and it might work for Thailand, too, I think.

In Japan now the situation is as follows:

1-

The permanent resident permit includes the unlimited labour permit and also the right to buy land, house and operate your own shop. (rights almost like a Japanese national)

2-

The 3-years-longterm resident permit also includes full labour permit (for example, it might be given to a person, who is a retired foreigner after a business-visa or to a foreigner, who is widower, because his Japanese wife died)

3-

The spouse visa (foreigner legally registered in Japan, married to a Japanese national, regardless if man/woman) includes the full labour permit, you might choose any work, no report required. (usually given for 1 year x 3 times, after 3 years you might apply for a 3 years-spouse visa)

4-

Student Visa (Overseas students in Japanese universities) might do PART TIME work, but have to report it to the Immigration (a standard form, signed by the employer about kind of work, payment, workig hours) - usually approved within hours.

------

Thai Government should consider a total revision of the old Immigration Law.

mbkudu · August 23, 2004

Yohan, this is all very interesting news. It seems odd that Begs is the biggest railer against "Criminal English Teachers" in Thailand and he works in Japan

(so he says). After knowing this I would hope he might acquire a little sympathy for all the toiling foreign pedagogues of Thailand.

Begs · August 23, 2004

It seems odd that Begs is the biggest railer against "Criminal English Teachers" in Thailand and he works in Japan
(so he says). After knowing this I would hope he might acquire a little sympathy for all the toiling foreign pedagogues of Thailand.

Why does it seem odd ?

This forum discusses issues relevant to Thailand, Thai law states that you need a work permit to work.

kenkannif · August 23, 2004

Nice thread!

Thanks Begs!

It should be said no one is advocating/condoning, or saying it's good to work without a work permit as it's totally illegal! But as you can see it is a sad fact of teaching here in Thailand!

Axel · August 23, 2004

Difficult to understand the situation.

On one hand the Thai laws do have certain requirements, before granting

permission to stay and a work permit. Perhaps these rules might be harsh por outdated, but it seems to me only language teachers having a problem with these laws. What about all the other teachers and I met many of them while having the son in school in Thailand for 10 years.

All these teachers where properly employed, had WP a.s.o. They as well have been educated back home to be teachers, coming from the USA, UK, Germany, Switzerland. One exception as it turned out that a teacher had some fake licences, means back home he was not the one he pretented to be. Next plane out, not by order of the Thai authorities, by order of the school board.

There seems to be a grey market with language schools, who apparently pay below minimum salaries, ignoring the Thai laws. Why to take a job in such places, if other schools hire properly?

RamdomChances · August 23, 2004

A question or two, I'm not a teacher and know little about the profession here in Thailand.

Do many Teachers work for Goverment run schools?

What requirments do these schools have ie what sort of qualifications do you need.

Do Goverment run schools provide WP's for theachers.

Is the pay less than private schools.

If goverment schools are employing teachers without WP's would'nt that be a sort of "state sanctioned crime"?

kenkannif · August 23, 2004

A question or two, I'm not a teacher and know little about the profession here in Thailand.
Do many Teachers work for Goverment run schools?

What requirments do these schools have ie what sort of qualifications do you need.

Do Goverment run schools provide WP's for theachers.

Is the pay less than private schools.

If goverment schools are employing teachers without WP's would'nt that be a sort of "state sanctioned crime"?

Yes, many teachers work for government schools, either directly with or without a work permit. Or often through an agency (or private language school although a WP from them really won't cover you to work off of their premises) with or without a work permit!

Well it can depend from one to another in regards to qualifications and how desperate they are (i.e. if they've got a day to find a teacher, they may well accept pretty much anyone (thing!). Generally the main criteria seems to be to look like a farang (and to obviously be a nice man!) it's nice if you have a degree or TEFL, but only some schools really push for these.

Some government schools do, some agencies for government schools do, a lot don't!

The pay is around the same quite often (a little bit more than a lot of in house private schools) although sometimes you'll get perks like holiday pay etc.

Yes, that's basically it 'state sanctioned crime' sums it up well (can I steal that and pretend I thought of it please?

Axel,

I'm guessing your son goes to an expensive international school, or a very, very reputable (posh) Thai school? If not I doubt all the teachers were properly WPed etc. up!

Edited August 23, 2004 by kenkannif

Ijustwannateach · August 23, 2004

Oho, so Begsy's one of the "rich" workers in Japan, eh? I know a thing or two about Japan....

You a teacher, Begsy? Are you American? How exactly did you get your first working visa in Japan?

"Steven"

Begs · August 23, 2004

Oho, so Begsy's one of the "rich" workers in Japan, eh? I know a thing or two about Japan....
You a teacher, Begsy? Are you American? How exactly did you get your first working visa in Japan?

"Steven"

Please, this forum is for issues relating to Thailand...............

Kindly keep to a topic that has some relevance to Thailand.

I would worry about your own ( please Begs while it's correct it doesn't help! KK ) situation in Thailand if i was you, what is happening a few thousand Kms away is immaterial in a Thai Forum.

Edited August 23, 2004 by kenkannif

kenkannif · August 23, 2004

Please both of you try to stay on topic!

Begs · August 23, 2004

Please both of you try to stay on topic!

I for one am trying, although i am being provoked at every opportunity by.............IjustwannateachWithNoWorkPermit..........

Kindly stick to the topic.

Ijustwannateach · August 23, 2004

^I think if you have some evidence of this, you should provide it, otherwise you should avoid making accusations against posters to this forum.

"Steven"

Ijustwannateach · August 23, 2004

Please both of you try to stay on topic!

If this thread is about "working illegally," then Begsy's situation is fair game. If it's about "teachers working illegally in Thailand" then 2 threads have already been closed and this one should be, too (as well as any more in the near future on the topic). Just one poster's opinion.

"Steven"