Police Hunt Rapist Of Israeli Visitor

[torrenova]

Well her actions have to make you think. Firstly, you believe the girl, that she was raped. You hope that the rapist will be caught and prosecuted. He then hands himself in, she takes a bribe to drop the case and suddenly, it sheds a whole new light on the story.

Was she really raped or did she just have sex and then regret it ? I agree with one poster that there is a problem with young Thai men and their desire for sex and their inability to restrain themselves.

Whatever the real truth, she has done nothing to promote the right of women at have protection from this type of crime.

[Jingthing]

yes, you are correct!

No reason to think this girl was not raped. Such things happen (false charges), so it makes it more difficult.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[highdiver]

obviusly the guy is a criminal, so are the guys that rape stupid girls in bathrooms at discos... that wasnt my point...

anyway,

the ma'ariv article spent two paragraphs about the actual incident and three or more about thailand as a major tourist center for young israeli tourists, blablabla.... and two dinky articles about the fact the a large percentage of israeli women/girls do not report rape (not sure if they even included the beduin/arabic/relgiuos orthodox whom dont report and have their own ways of dealing with victim and perpetrator) since we are a mid. eastern patriarchal society still...

so for two weeks or so, israeli mothers will tell their kids not to go to thailand but greece is ok, while their kids go off to yet an other disco and get drunk on one beer (they cant hold their liquor at all, these kids) and get into car accidents....

i have to see what that charity is though?? ...... that was a little wierd....

bina

Bina I beg to differ on some points.

As per dress code:

if a woman likes to dress provocatively and send out a very sexy image it is her right.

if she wants to get friendly with a man it is her right.

and its her right to say NO!!

The fact that a girls gets a provocative look and has afew drinks is no reason for the man not to understand the refusal at any point.

A man has the right to look at a girl and find her sexy.

A man has the right to buy her a drink and invite her to dance. or even ask her back to his place.

A man doest NOT have the right to take it by force...

As per discos and adult behavior by 22 year olds.

when young man and woman wish to interact socialy they do so in clubs and discos. and yes both genders go out lookijng for the same thing,... friendship,love and sex...

even if they come in groups it is very common to find a "mate" in such places and get seperated from your group.

discos are not realy for dancing are they??? it a place where people go to interact.

a girl wearing provocative cloths is attracting attention. which is exactly what she wants. she then finds a man intresting enough and they have a few drinks and a good time and then she willingly joins him to his car. she is an adult and its her decision. she may even wish to have sex with him and she may have even initiated it.

How ever she has the right at any point of time to say NO!!! and the man must respect it. the fact that the gneral approach by many people including the justice system that an over arroused man can not controll himself is degrading to man and is a poor excuse.

As per justice

The justice system has a very difficult time in such cases proving if it was a rape or not is due to the fact that in such initmate situations it is her word versus his.

As such many cases are never complained. and those that do the prosecution has a very dfficult tile to accuse the man beyond all doubt specially in cases where there seems to be a mutual intrest between the parties prior to the incident.

then there is the legal definintions, was it rape? was it a forcable act? was it sadomy? and all those legal defintions ????

In such cases the police and the prosecution advise the woman that the process will be very long and legal and the woman who just wants to forget the whole thing .....tends to drop charges.

As per Rapes in Israel.

A member of goverment (Ramon) discharged with a minor offence after kissing and fondling a girls that was in her militery service. why so he can go back to politics and continue his behaviour..????

A president who was sexually abusing his female staff memebers and after a long and abusive process for the girl the justice system has not charged him but prefered to strike a deal????

what kind of message are those woman getting from the justice system??? why should they complain???

Edited November 25, 2007 by highdiver

[sriracha john]

And clearly someone in the Israeli embassy knew Thai culture well enough to convince the young woman to accept the deal.

Do we know definitively that this what the Israeli Embassy advised her to do?

Is this their standard protocol in serious crimes such as rape? To take 600 Euro and forget about it?

[Scott]

So, the question is was she raped or wasn't she? Seems like 30,000 baht for someone from a Western Country isn't much money if she was.

And if it was rape, then that means that we have a rapist on the loose, which means more victims, only next time (if he is so inclined), he might want to make sure he doesn't get reported.

All the way around this is a very sad story.

[Johpa]

And clearly someone in the Israeli embassy knew Thai culture well enough to convince the young woman to accept the deal.

Do we know definitively that this what the Israeli Embassy advised her to do?

Is this their standard protocol in serious crimes such as rape? To take 600 Euro and forget about it?

We only know from the news that she had contact with her embassy and that she accepted the offer. You are correct in inferring that all else is conjecture. But I am more comfortable with assuming that she took the offer upon advice and not against advice to the contrary. This is fairly standard protocol in this type of "he-said-she said" situation. That being said, please do not infer that I think rape not to be a serious crime. But for better or for worse there will often be a perceived difference, although not necessarily a legal difference, between a late night out going the wrong way and someone breaking into a home and violently raping a stranger.

[sriracha john]

I didn't intend to infer that you thought rape is not serious... only inferring that it was NOT "clearly" known that Embassy "convinced her to accept the deal."

It was also not to infer that you thought rape is not serious.... only that the Embassy thought so, if indeed this is their protocol to advise their citizens not to pursue a serious crime.

[sriracha john]

Is there a link to the Ma'ariv article online, bina? I didn't have any success just browsing it (Babylon is a good translator of Hebrew).

Whatever the real truth, she has done nothing to promote the right of women at have protection from this type of crime.

As per Rapes in Israel.

A member of goverment (Ramon) discharged with a minor offence after kissing and fondling a girls that was in her militery service. why so he can go back to politics and continue his behaviour..????

A president who was sexually abusing his female staff memebers and after a long and abusive process for the girl the justice system has not charged him but prefered to strike a deal????

what kind of message are those woman getting from the justice system??? why should they complain???

Hopefully bina can tracked down the link to the article that mentions the Embassy.

In regards to high diver's posts above, what I did find on the Israeli newswires re-enforces torrenova's point... the woman's actions will only exacerbate the trend described below:

Women’s Group: Fewer Women Complain of Assault

According to the Authority for the Advancement of the Status of Women, fewer women who were sexually assaulted filed complaints in 2007 than in previous years. Director Marit Danon blamed recent high-profile cases, such as accusations of rape against former President Moshe Katzav and a sexual assault case against former Justice Minister and current Vice Premier Chaim Ramon, for the drop in complaints.

According to Danon, “When a victim sees in the media the anguish complainants go through, they think twice before filing charges.” Ramon was convicted of sexual assault for forcibly kissing a female soldier, while most charges against Katzav were dropped and his accuser’s reliability came into question. The soldier who complained against Ramon was later followed by an private investigation firm hired by one of Ramon’s close friends.

- Arutz Sheva Israel National News

*btw, still not a single article found from any news source there, other than the one bina alludes to.*

[Edonista]

I'm not defending her decision to accept the payout but maybe the police told her there wasn't a realistic chance of a conviction - she voluntarily left the club with him, his word against hers, no evidence of rape, no witnesses etc.......

First sign of intelligence in this thread !

[Edonista]

An offensive racist remark has been deleted from this thread.

Any more such comments will result in suspension from the forum.

Watching how the story developed it seems my "racist remark" was more a prophetic one....I mean she settled for money and kept some to pay her hotel bill

[Edonista]

I'm sorry... I've never taken this viewpoint on any other occasion, but if this is how she's playing this out... it sends the woman's movement back a decade or so... as this was no rape... it was something not illegal in some parts of world and cost:

Thai Baht 30,000 = Israeli Shekel 3,714.71 = Euro 649

And let's hope it keeps going that way !

It's time to stop the shame of women regretting having sex filing rape charges for revenge.

Rape is when a woman walks along the street and is assaulted by a brute. Not when she flirts with a guy all night long then she regrets she gave him the "happy ending" !

Edited November 26, 2007 by Edonista

[sriracha john]

I'm not defending her decision to accept the payout but maybe the police told her there wasn't a realistic chance of a conviction - she voluntarily left the club with him, his word against hers, no evidence of rape, no witnesses etc.......

First sign of intelligence in this thread !

Except, of course, that it is all unknown.

We don't know what physical evidence of rape there was. There may have been a lot or there may have been very little. Signs of trauma...both of a sexual and non-sexual nature... evidence of force.. the appearance of the room...etc. etc. etc.

We also don't know if there were any witnesses. There may have been many that could describe their interactions at the disco... their arrival at the room's building... neighbors of the room during the alleged rape... his appearance and timing for departure from the room... her physical state upon departing....etc. etc. etc. We know squat.. other than that she ultimately (and rather quickly) accepted a deal brokered by the police.

In other words, in cases of rape, it is often much more involved than a "he said, she said" situation.

Edited November 26, 2007 by sriracha john

[Andiamo]

So, the question is was she raped or wasn't she? Seems like 30,000 baht for someone from a Western Country isn't much money if she was.

And if it was rape, then that means that we have a rapist on the loose, which means more victims, only next time (if he is so inclined), he might want to make sure he doesn't get reported.

All the way around this is a very sad story.

It seems to me that we will never know the real story, so it's useless to speculate .

Scott makes a valid point above which bears thinknig about, IMO....

[buddhafly]

how do they come up with a price for a crime as horrible as rape?

and what is the purpose of a fine in this matter- does it fix anything?

or does it just serve to deter an alleged perp to from doing it again?

although the woman giving the money to charity seems an inspiring move.

[kat]

I'm sorry... I've never taken this viewpoint on any other occasion, but if this is how she's playing this out... it sends the woman's movement back a decade or so... as this was no rape... it was something not illegal in some parts of world and cost:

Thai Baht 30,000 = Israeli Shekel 3,714.71 = Euro 649

And let's hope it keeps going that way !

It's time to stop the shame of women regretting having sex filing rape charges for revenge.

Rape is when a woman walks along the street and is assaulted by a brute. Not when she flirts with a guy all night long then she regrets she gave him the "happy ending" !

Excuse me???? Rape is not only about a woman being assaulted by a stranger on the street, but also people that she knows, or may have been "flirting with all night long." Flirting is not consent, and is not an invitation to RAPE. You sound like unless women observe Sharia law, she deserves to be raped, or be forced to have sex AGAINST HER WILL.

Fake rape charges are one thing, but what you are suggesting here is that there is only one scenario concerning rape that exonerates the woman. I wonder how you would feel if you were out having a couple of beers with men in a bar who then thought it was fine to gangrape and rob you? Would it be your fault for "flirting all night long"? Would you have deserved it, huh?

I cannot believe the Neanderthals on this website.

[Jingthing]

Kat, not all men are like edonista, thank god. There is nothing we have heard that creates any doubt that this young Israeli woman was indeed a rape victim.

Edited November 27, 2007 by Jingthing

[kat]

Thanks Jingthing. I know - it just gets to be too much sometime. I'm not even going to argue this because I've seen gorillas with more class.

[bina]

well, guys, barring the fact that some people cant read posts properly (or my grammar is bad) i ws trying to explain that here, a large percent of women do not press charges 1. cause they are murdered because of family honour(beduin/druze), 2. hushed over or 'taken care of internally by 'their own community leaders/rabbis(orthodox) 3. pretend it didnt happen the less people know the better (mainstream)and go to a psychocogist if there are any long term problems . as someone said and as i pointed out in one of my first posts, the newspapers here dont exactly promote the willpower of women to complain. why bother. better to just get over and done with it.

the article that i read was the only one... there is no follow up that i can see but i dont get a daily paper, only the friday edition, the rest of the time i read the three main papers on the net.... so maybe there is a little blurb...

since it is or was the 'day to remember violence to women' day , lots of articles and stats but left the yediot aharonot article from co worker's newspaper at work. there was a big blurb about complaints to the center for sexual assault. the bottom line was that :a huge majority of women do not report rape or attempted rape, most people still think that 'the woman/girl deserved it' unless it was a 'poltical incident i.e. arab raping a jewish woman... or 'perverted' i.e. rape of old ladies.

one of the first times rape became a table discussion here was when a 'miss universe or miss world something or other was raped while she was overseas, by someone, i think in her entourage. anyway, she was very public about it and it made the news and 'helped other young women to overcome the stigma' blablabla... but public memory is very short and the bottom line in this country is 'dont make a fuss, u probably had it coming to you so put up or shut up...'...

'course, we'll never know the real story. (btw, cultural/religiouis/ethnic background here also play a part in the way the girl/woman would handle the situation.

btw, there were at least two reported cases here in the past few years of thai workers raping (and murdering in one of the cases) girls , both involving being in a disco/pub, or coming back from disco/pub. and the thai here *husband included unfortunately* almost always point out to me the scantily clad girls here (from 12 yrs and up, belly shirts, bras clearly seen, shirts hanging off shoulders, super micro minis, etc) and say 'HIV' (meaning 'free sex here/sexually promiscuous) and they really dont understand that that is NOT an invitation to sex, just a way of dressing.

bina

[Chris Lawrence]

When I mentioned this story to my wife, her comment was 'only 30000 baht'; she is from this part of the world. It just seems that honor in this part of the world can be bought and paid for. The unfortunate fact to such a incident is the only person who becomes much the wiser is the person committing the offense. They learn how the system works and if continue with their after hour offense, will just get better at what they do. The point that I make here is that if they continue they eventually physically hurt someone.

30000 baht is a lot of money in this part of Thailand for a worker earning 200 baht a day. But some of the other posts have eluded to the fact that a young fella at the disco would probably be from a more wealthy family.

The answer for this type of offense is to promote greater public awareness and that these type's of crime are a crime.

That's my opinion.

[kat]

Something is definitely wrong if a rape actually occurred and a payment settled it, I will wait and see if this is truly the case before I further comment.

obviusly the guy is a criminal, so are the guys that rape stupid girls in bathrooms at discos... that wasnt my point...

anyway,

the ma'ariv article spent two paragraphs about the actual incident and three or more about thailand as a major tourist center for young israeli tourists, blablabla.... and two dinky articles about the fact the a large percentage of israeli women/girls do not report rape (not sure if they even included the beduin/arabic/relgiuos orthodox whom dont report and have their own ways of dealing with victim and perpetrator) since we are a mid. eastern patriarchal society still...

so for two weeks or so, israeli mothers will tell their kids not to go to thailand but greece is ok, while their kids go off to yet an other disco and get drunk on one beer (they cant hold their liquor at all, these kids) and get into car accidents....

i have to see what that charity is though?? ...... that was a little wierd....

bina

Bina I beg to differ on some points.

As per dress code:

if a woman likes to dress provocatively and send out a very sexy image it is her right.

if she wants to get friendly with a man it is her right.

and its her right to say NO!!

The fact that a girls gets a provocative look and has afew drinks is no reason for the man not to understand the refusal at any point.

A man has the right to look at a girl and find her sexy.

A man has the right to buy her a drink and invite her to dance. or even ask her back to his place.

A man doest NOT have the right to take it by force...

As per discos and adult behavior by 22 year olds.

when young man and woman wish to interact socialy they do so in clubs and discos. and yes both genders go out lookijng for the same thing,... friendship,love and sex...

even if they come in groups it is very common to find a "mate" in such places and get seperated from your group.

discos are not realy for dancing are they??? it a place where people go to interact.

a girl wearing provocative cloths is attracting attention. which is exactly what she wants. she then finds a man intresting enough and they have a few drinks and a good time and then she willingly joins him to his car. she is an adult and its her decision. she may even wish to have sex with him and she may have even initiated it.

How ever she has the right at any point of time to say NO!!! and the man must respect it. the fact that the gneral approach by many people including the justice system that an over arroused man can not controll himself is degrading to man and is a poor excuse.

As per justice

The justice system has a very difficult time in such cases proving if it was a rape or not is due to the fact that in such initmate situations it is her word versus his.

As such many cases are never complained. and those that do the prosecution has a very dfficult tile to accuse the man beyond all doubt specially in cases where there seems to be a mutual intrest between the parties prior to the incident.

then there is the legal definintions, was it rape? was it a forcable act? was it sadomy? and all those legal defintions ????

In such cases the police and the prosecution advise the woman that the process will be very long and legal and the woman who just wants to forget the whole thing .....tends to drop charges.

As per Rapes in Israel.

A member of goverment (Ramon) discharged with a minor offence after kissing and fondling a girls that was in her militery service. why so he can go back to politics and continue his behaviour..????

A president who was sexually abusing his female staff memebers and after a long and abusive process for the girl the justice system has not charged him but prefered to strike a deal????

what kind of message are those woman getting from the justice system??? why should they complain???

Yes, excellent posts Mekong and Diver, and thanks for your perceptive comments above, Chris Lawrence.

Edited November 27, 2007 by kat

[meemiathai]

As per dress code:

if a woman likes to dress provocatively and send out a very sexy image it is her right.

if she wants to get friendly with a man it is her right.

and its her right to say NO!!

The fact that a girls gets a provocative look and has afew drinks is no reason for the man not to understand the refusal at any point.

A man has the right to look at a girl and find her sexy.

A man has the right to buy her a drink and invite her to dance. or even ask her back to his place.

A man doest NOT have the right to take it by force...

As per discos and adult behavior by 22 year olds.

when young man and woman wish to interact socialy they do so in clubs and discos. and yes both genders go out lookijng for the same thing,... friendship,love and sex...

even if they come in groups it is very common to find a "mate" in such places and get seperated from your group.

discos are not realy for dancing are they??? it a place where people go to interact.

a girl wearing provocative cloths is attracting attention. which is exactly what she wants. she then finds a man intresting enough and they have a few drinks and a good time and then she willingly joins him to his car. she is an adult and its her decision. she may even wish to have sex with him and she may have even initiated it.

How ever she has the right at any point of time to say NO!!! and the man must respect it. the fact that the gneral approach by many people including the justice system that an over arroused man can not controll himself is degrading to man and is a poor excuse.

100% agreed!

But,

the same can be said? if,

a man wants to explore the african jungle and walks bare-handed it is his right,

if he wants to get friendly with hyennas and lions it is his right.

A lion has the right to look at the man and find him tasty,

A lion has the right to ask if the man can be eaten,

A lion does not have the right to take it by force though...

Sometimes it is not about right or wrong in this world, it is about what reality really is. Unfortunately there are maniacs and very wicked people existing in this world, life in the city is no different than life in a jungle, if one lives with one's eyes closed, one is going to eaten alife.

I am not blaming the victim here.

Rapist if 100% proven guilty should be hanged in my opinion.

[bina]

thank you meemiathai

Sometimes it is not about right or wrong in this world, it is about what reality really is. Unfortunately there are maniacs and very wicked people existing in this world, life in the city is no different than life in a jungle, if one lives with one's eyes closed, one is going to eaten alife.

put succinctly what i tried to say roundabout and got 'bonked' on the 'post' for...

my take on life exactly...

bina

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[SamuiRep]

Hi,

this kind of reports to the police made some israeli girls in turkey, too. 90 % of this reports to the police are'nt true, just to give the guy an "israelian lession". in israel the girls make this, after having sex (no rape, totally enjoy), after the guy loose the interest in her. the law says, he must marry her, when he rapes the girlfriend, otherwise he will find himself in prison...

maybe she had the best time in her life with this young thai guy, because, when the guy was well known in the disco, than he has a good reference, otherwise he would maybe known as a rape specialist...!?!

Fake Rape charges are really bad, this can bring a man to die in prison.

[DanaDeLuxe]

Hi,

this kind of reports to the police made some israeli girls in turkey, too. 90 % of this reports to the police are'nt true, just to give the guy an "israelian lession". in israel the girls make this, after having sex (no rape, totally enjoy), after the guy loose the interest in her. the law says, he must marry her, when he rapes the girlfriend, otherwise he will find himself in prison...

maybe she had the best time in her life with this young thai guy, because, when the guy was well known in the disco, than he has a good reference, otherwise he would maybe known as a rape specialist...!?!

Fake Rape charges are really bad, this can bring a man to die in prison.

And your of course reliable source is?

I was quite disturbed by some of the posts above. I never understood why the solution to men being not able to control themselves should be that women are to hide their bodies and keep their heads down.

But you top it all, SamRep. Meet iggy.

Sorry all, English is not my first language...

[highdiver]

As per dress code:

if a woman likes to dress provocatively and send out a very sexy image it is her right.

if she wants to get friendly with a man it is her right.

and its her right to say NO!!

The fact that a girls gets a provocative look and has afew drinks is no reason for the man not to understand the refusal at any point.

A man has the right to look at a girl and find her sexy.

A man has the right to buy her a drink and invite her to dance. or even ask her back to his place.

A man doest NOT have the right to take it by force...

As per discos and adult behavior by 22 year olds.

when young man and woman wish to interact socialy they do so in clubs and discos. and yes both genders go out lookijng for the same thing,... friendship,love and sex...

even if they come in groups it is very common to find a "mate" in such places and get seperated from your group.

discos are not realy for dancing are they??? it a place where people go to interact.

a girl wearing provocative cloths is attracting attention. which is exactly what she wants. she then finds a man intresting enough and they have a few drinks and a good time and then she willingly joins him to his car. she is an adult and its her decision. she may even wish to have sex with him and she may have even initiated it.

How ever she has the right at any point of time to say NO!!! and the man must respect it. the fact that the gneral approach by many people including the justice system that an over arroused man can not controll himself is degrading to man and is a poor excuse.

100% agreed!

But,

the same can be said? if,

a man wants to explore the african jungle and walks bare-handed it is his right,

if he wants to get friendly with hyennas and lions it is his right.

A lion has the right to look at the man and find him tasty,

A lion has the right to ask if the man can be eaten,

A lion does not have the right to take it by force though...

Sometimes it is not about right or wrong in this world, it is about what reality really is. Unfortunately there are maniacs and very wicked people existing in this world, life in the city is no different than life in a jungle, if one lives with one's eyes closed, one is going to eaten alife.

I am not blaming the victim here.

Rapist if 100% proven guilty should be hanged in my opinion.

I agrree that a rapist should be hanged...

i differ from you on your analogy... man is diferent from lion or any animal in that fact. are we not set apart from the animals?? (well some of us are not)

while a lion acts on an instinct we as "homo sapiens" with a cortex can understand the abstract definition of NO!!

I still stand by what i said when a woman says no its NO!!! the fact that some people refer to men as loosing the power of comprehansion once the blood rushed "down" is degrading to men.

a man who needs to take it by force is a looser!!!

[Jingthing]

What if the girl had been from Luxembourg? So many over the top slurs about someone you know nothing about. Weird.

[kat]

Hi,

this kind of reports to the police made some israeli girls in turkey, too. 90 % of this reports to the police are'nt true, just to give the guy an "israelian lession". in israel the girls make this, after having sex (no rape, totally enjoy), after the guy loose the interest in her. the law says, he must marry her, when he rapes the girlfriend, otherwise he will find himself in prison...

maybe she had the best time in her life with this young thai guy, because, when the guy was well known in the disco, than he has a good reference, otherwise he would maybe known as a rape specialist...!?!

Fake Rape charges are really bad, this can bring a man to die in prison.

And your of course reliable source is?

I was quite disturbed by some of the posts above. I never understood why the solution to men being not able to control themselves should be that women are to hide their bodies and keep their heads down.

But you top it all, SamRep. Meet iggy.

Sorry all, English is not my first language...

Yes, agreed, Dana. Don't worry about your English - you put it quite well.

[bina]

samui,

sorry, but last i heard, a woman who has sex doesnt need to marry the guy... we are not that primitive here, although some ethnic groups here do have their own religious and ethical regulations...and the sad case is that among beduins for example if a woman is raped, she will often (very high rate unfortunatey) get murdered for 'destroying the family honour'...and the guy doesnt go to prison, most probably get his throat slit also....

among the gruzinim, kafkaz (ex soviet groups) and beduins and or druze that may be the case. but not prison, but decisions made by community elders or religious leaders.

so get at least your cultural facts straight.

bina

israel

i think the topic is breaking down....

oh, diver:

are we not set apart from the animals?? (well some of us are not)

u just answered yourself... thats my humble opinion from my humble experiences of being a woman (and working with animals, but i dont count getting sexually harrassed by a male sheep in the same breath)

bina

[meemiathai]

As per dress code:

if a woman likes to dress provocatively and send out a very sexy image it is her right.

if she wants to get friendly with a man it is her right.

and its her right to say NO!!

The fact that a girls gets a provocative look and has afew drinks is no reason for the man not to understand the refusal at any point.

A man has the right to look at a girl and find her sexy.

A man has the right to buy her a drink and invite her to dance. or even ask her back to his place.

A man doest NOT have the right to take it by force...

As per discos and adult behavior by 22 year olds.

when young man and woman wish to interact socialy they do so in clubs and discos. and yes both genders go out lookijng for the same thing,... friendship,love and sex...

even if they come in groups it is very common to find a "mate" in such places and get seperated from your group.

discos are not realy for dancing are they??? it a place where people go to interact.

a girl wearing provocative cloths is attracting attention. which is exactly what she wants. she then finds a man intresting enough and they have a few drinks and a good time and then she willingly joins him to his car. she is an adult and its her decision. she may even wish to have sex with him and she may have even initiated it.

How ever she has the right at any point of time to say NO!!! and the man must respect it. the fact that the gneral approach by many people including the justice system that an over arroused man can not controll himself is degrading to man and is a poor excuse.

100% agreed!

But,

the same can be said? if,

a man wants to explore the african jungle and walks bare-handed it is his right,

if he wants to get friendly with hyennas and lions it is his right.

A lion has the right to look at the man and find him tasty,

A lion has the right to ask if the man can be eaten,

A lion does not have the right to take it by force though...

Sometimes it is not about right or wrong in this world, it is about what reality really is. Unfortunately there are maniacs and very wicked people existing in this world, life in the city is no different than life in a jungle, if one lives with one's eyes closed, one is going to eaten alife.

I am not blaming the victim here.

Rapist if 100% proven guilty should be hanged in my opinion.

I agrree that a rapist should be hanged...

i differ from you on your analogy... man is diferent from lion or any animal in that fact. are we not set apart from the animals?? (well some of us are not)

while a lion acts on an instinct we as "homo sapiens" with a cortex can understand the abstract definition of NO!!

I still stand by what i said when a woman says no its NO!!! the fact that some people refer to men as loosing the power of comprehansion once the blood rushed "down" is degrading to men.

a man who needs to take it by force is a looser!!!

Hi Dive,

you didn't get my post. I said you were 100% right. But simply being right is pointless. Say you ride on a bike and someone drives a big truck. Should you be more careful than the truck driver. If you don't try to avoid him, no matter how wrong he was or how right you were is never going to help coz you will no longer be there to argue. You are gone.

I agree the girl has the right to do anything but as I said, it is not just you and me out there. There are lions, tigers, jeopards, everything. The girl should know the risk and try to protect herself as much as she feels comfortable. Those men are degrading to men, SO WHAT!!! The girl is still going to get hurt and IRREVERSIBLE damage.