Thaksin And 30 Members Of His Cabinet Indicted

[h90]

What interest me about the members who want to get thaksin at any cost and accept all teh charges brought by the AEC, is why they refuse to look at the AEC members who brought the silly charges. These include noted PAD CORE MEMBERS such as Kaewsan Atibodhi who spoke on the PAD stage during the anti-Thaksin rallies and were instrumental in instigating the coup. These same AEC members were appointed by the COUP LEAders. Then khun Kaewsan states he has no bias at all against Thasin, and everyone accepts this at face value .

I still fail to see why introducing a variation on the state lottery is seen as far more henious than overthrowing, with armed force, an elected government. I am open to reasoned arguments? Why aren't all these PAD members on trial, what about the generals? Oh yeah, I fogot they made the new constitution and so they are now pardoned for life, but oh no, PPP must not ever think about changing that hallowed consititution because that was made by (supporters of )PAD- the heroes of thailand, the protectors of the monarchy, the lovers of peace, the gandhi adherents, the heart of thai people, the savious of womenkind, the respectors of Dhamma (or the santi asoke cult version). (cough cough)

So you want to tell Thaksin was not corrupt and this is just a plot from the AEC TOGETHER with the courts??

[ozzydom]

Would members refrain from quoting the whole text when answering a post and only quote the passage relevant to their answer.

And cease with the yelling, oversize type may be deleted.

[Plus]

3.It is absolutely beyond argument that Thaksin's populist measures benefited the rural majority.All the academic and social science evidence supports this.

Hold your horses. So far we've been talking about Thaksin, and it seems you agree that he abused his popular mandate.

Now you are saying that apart from that his policies were sound and solid.

I beg to disagree.

Back in 2000, before first TRT's victory, there were plenty of warnings from all sides about detrimental and long lasting effect of populism on the country. So far all those predictions have come true, but they've been overshadowed by other political conflicts.

Public healthcare system is in shatters and beyond repair, drained of all qualified staff and starved by lack of investments for a decade, while private healthcare for the privileged is at it's apogee.

Poor are hooked up on government handouts and the most effective election promise is debt forgiveness.

The rich had used the stock exchange run to increase their wealth three-four times.

The rest of the country has doubled their debts and ate away their savings.

Half the country expects a single billionaire to come and solve all of their problems by simply giving them more loans.

"Dual track" strategy has proved to be a complete flop.

And I seriously doubt that any of the "elites" whose opinion you respect would give you any different assessment.

[animatic]

What Plus just said.

[Howsitgoin]

3.It is absolutely beyond argument that Thaksin's populist measures benefited the rural majority.All the academic and social science evidence supports this.

Hold your horses. So far we've been talking about Thaksin, and it seems you agree that he abused his popular mandate.

Now you are saying that apart from that his policies were sound and solid.

I beg to disagree.

Back in 2000, before first TRT's victory, there were plenty of warnings from all sides about detrimental and long lasting effect of populism on the country. So far all those predictions have come true, but they've been overshadowed by other political conflicts.

Back in 2000, Democrats have somewhat started repairing the economy, but have completely neglected the rural poor. Those were the years drugs completely took over the village economies.

Public healthcare system is in shatters and beyond repair, drained of all qualified staff and starved by lack of investments for a decade, while private healthcare for the privileged is at it's apogee.

No, it isn't.

It is not in the best condition, but it still is far better than it once was for the poor. People still do get treatment for almost free for which they had to pay dearly before.

That does not mean that it is perfect, it simply needs reforms.

Poor are hooked up on government handouts and the most effective election promise is debt forgiveness.

Rubbish. The poor for the first time had some access to state funds. Far from perfect, yes. Far less though than a modern European welfare state gives to the average citizen. But some rightwing libertarians call that "handouts" too.

The rich had used the stock exchange run to increase their wealth three-four times.

As if they have not done that before...

The rest of the country has doubled their debts and ate away their savings.

Simplistic polemics.

Half the country expects a single billionaire to come and solve all of their problems by simply giving them more loans.

"Dual track" strategy has proved to be a complete flop.

Not really. Military coup and PAD created chaos have proved to be the most destructive factors in Thailand.

And I seriously doubt that any of the "elites" whose opinion you respect would give you any different assessment.

Demonizing Thaksin, exaggerating with polemics that do not stand up to any research may convince the simpleminded to follow PAD. But reality is a bit more complex.

Nobody doubts that Thaksin was corrupt, and that many of his programs have been badly implemented. But under his government at least some very necessary modernizations have been started, while the Democrats have thrown a vast majority of the Thai population to the wolves during their rule. They have had their chance, and did nothing for the poor.

And until today they have not yet come up with any policy of their own beyond one page of copied and rebranded TRT policies. And instead of modernizing their only activity is political trench warfare and opportunistically siding with PAD.

No "New Politics" or politically inspired lawsuits are going to change one bit when the obviously flawed and corrupt TRT/PPP government was the best government for the majority of the Thai people they ever had.

First come up with alternatives, before destroying everything.

[sriracha john]

Hearings begin on lottery scandal; 5th arrest warrant for no-show ex-premier

BANGKOK, Sept 26 (TNA) - The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions on Friday issued another arrest warrant for ousted, fugitive Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra after he failed to appear for the first hearing of the two- and three-digit lottery scandal case.

Thaksin and 46 other defendants, including his former cabinet ministers and senior civil servants, were charged with launching a lottery scheme without due process of law.

The former premier is now living and reportedly seeking political asylum in Britain.

Forty four defendants appeared in court while two others had earlier received court permission to be absent from Friday's hearing.

The defendants denied the charges, and the court set the next hearing for December 22-24.

The court also agreed to defendants' requests to hold trial in absentia in order to accelerate the proceedings of which not every defendant is required to be present at every hearing.

In the case of Thaksin who fled to Britain after attending the opening of the Olympic Games in Beijing in August, the court ruled that he intentionally chose to absent himself from the hearing, and issued yet another warrant for his arrest.

Thaksin spokesman Pongthep Thepkanchana, also a defendant, told the media that court's fifth arrest warrant for the ex-premier was in accordance with legal procedures.

Asked whether Thaksin, ousted in September 2006, would be affected if Thailand's foreign ministry revokes his diplomatic passport, Pongthep said it is up to the government to decide, but any arrest must be carried out under laws of the country where he stays.

Pongthep said former ministers who are now defendants were not involved and received no benefits from the lottery, and revenue received from sales was given in part to the Government Lottery Office and partly distributed as student scholarships.

[sriracha john]

Forty-six Cabinet members from the Thaksin Shinawatra administration report themselves to the Supreme Court on Friday as it begins its first trial on the lottery case.

Bangkok Post

----------------------------------------------------------

Hail! Hail! The Gang's All Here!

What the heck do we care? What the heck do we care?

Hail! Hail! The Gang's All Here!

What the heck do we care now?

- Words by D.A. Morse - Music by Arthur Sullivan / 1881

[sriracha john]

Fifth warrant issued to arrest former prime minister

The Supreme Court on Friday issued a warrant to arrest former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra after he failed to show up for the arraignment hearing on graft charges relating to the lottery case. This is the fourth warrant to be served on Thaksin since his exile in London last month.

The high court convened its session on the lottery case involving 47 defendants, including Thaksin and his ministers, responsible for the illegal sale of two- and three-digit lottery tickets.

Among the defendants include three incumbent Cabinet members, Deputy Prime Minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, Labour Minister Uraiwan Thienthong, and Industry Minister Pracha Promnok.

The three took leave of absent from today's Cabinet meeting in order to appear before the high court.

With the exception of Thaksin who was absent, all 46 defendants entered a plea of not guilty.

The high court suspended the trial proceedings pertaining to Thaksin until he could be brought to the court's custody.

For the remaining defendants, the next session is scheduled for December 22 which would last three days for the ruling on admissible evidence.

The high court ruled in favour of trial in absentia in order to speed up the proceedings without requiring every defendant to be present at every hearing.

It also instructed the defendants to seek a prior approval for travelling abroad.

- The Nation / 2008-09-27

[Plus]

Back in 2000, Democrats have somewhat started repairing the economy, but have completely neglected the rural poor.

During the economic crisis the economy contracted by half, 20% in 1998 alone, value added tax was at the highest rate fo 10%, and cut back on social programs was imposed by IMF (terms negotiated by Thanong, Thaksin's personal banker). It's not like Democrats willingly screw the poor.

In 2000 the economy grew by a respectable 4%.

>>>

"Access to state funds" is not a solution by itself, it's using these funds productively. Bridging illegal loans or buying personal items is not a productive use of funds and it discourages fiscal responsibility among those who badly need it. That will have a long term effect and the high level of debt could turn devastating should Thailand experience a real fallout from the current crisis in the US.

>>>

You are obviously not new here, Howsitgoin, why don't you log in under your original name? Why are you hiding? Ashamed of your previous behavior?

Thaivisa is not Thai government, "nominee" accounts are against the rules. I hope you are not registering new nicks just to post a few flames before you are banned again and again and again, like Thai politicians.

[animatic]

At what point in the past did the Democrats have such a commanding majority,

that they didn't need to make huge concession deals similar to PPP's deals for this

new cabinet, just to make things go on?

Sure the central bank screwed the pooch in '97, but pretty much all the parties

were involved in that fiasco since they all had an elbow in the Dems faces daily.

And what happened when FINALLY one party TRT had a clear majority,

they rode it into the ground and into banking history.

5 warrents so far for Dr. T.

Their populist policies were just that, things to make them popular,

or like the lottery fiasco ways to KEEP themselves popular.

Too many families forgot to buy farm equipment and seeds

and bought shiny trucks and AIS budget deal phones with hidden long term costs

And later the farms got taken back by banks, who sold it to Pu yais and the farmers

are back to working somebody else's land, that once was theirs.

Hense debt forgiveness being so high an election selling point.

We will help you out of the mess we got you in if you put us back in power again.

Have we seen even ONE legislative initiative this year that actually helped the REAL POOR.

No, the rice pledging schemes were just jiggering it for the RICE MILLERS.

There was no raised price for the raw product sellers, the farmers.

And how about those banned rice millers getting forgiven their government bans,

and right back into business as usual.

Up the local Pu yai's, but sod all for the little worker bees.

The million baht per village schemes benefited the KAMNANS more than anyone else.

Here boys here's some patronage to keep your village IN LINE.

Woes be the Kamnan who DOESN'T deliver or goes against the pu yia's wishes.

Look at the poor guy who stood up and called it as he saw it, against a core PPP leader's

election cheating and caused the PPP dissolution to start up.

He's been in hiding for nearly a year and just lost his job.

And we call THIS free and fair elections.

As long as PPP can control the dole and control the kamnan's this will never be

a free vote one man for the man of his choice.

So we get the machine installing :

dotty old uncles who were out of touch 10 years ago.

the bought and paid for children of banned execs,

the cabinet with NEW members under indictment,

A national leader who can't find 'competent' cabinet choices,

because the truly competent know better than to associate with them,.

Factions controlled by banned executives and their banned children

Not just controlled but NAMED after the banned exec.

The coalition is so weak that what few competent players who

MIGHT take jobs are pushed out to make room for 'quota cronies'.

And the lead ruling party actually MEETS in the building owned

by a fugitive from now 5 warrents for bilking the country.

Democracy as a concept is great, but we need a reality check.

Edited September 27, 2008 by animatic

[Plus]

In 1997 Democrats were in opposition. They took over Chavlit and NAP led government in November, a few months after baht devaluation and when the IMF bailout package conditions were finalised.

They led their own coalition government together with Chart Thai. NAP, which became the opposition, eventually walked out of the parliament and Dems had a free pass.

To keep things in perspective - Thaksin and co have been in power for about eight years, Democrat period was very brief, by comparison, and they led the country through biggest economic crash in history. Blaming them for all Isan ills is disingenuous.

[Howsitgoin]

"Access to state funds" is not a solution by itself, it's using these funds productively. Bridging illegal loans or buying personal items is not a productive use of funds and it discourages fiscal responsibility among those who badly need it. That will have a long term effect and the high level of debt could turn devastating should Thailand experience a real fallout from the current crisis in the US.

This again is polemics.

There was a field study done in Kerala on the use of mobile phones by villagers. The result of the study was that these "personal items" actually did substantially contribute to increased income for these villagers. One major example cited was that with their mobile phones they shopped around for the best mill to sell their produce, and did not just sell anymore to the closest mill.

I have noticed the same behavior here in Thailand.

You can't just simply assume that all villagers "wasted" the money they had access to without any study to back this up. Just because everybody says so, does not make it true.

[Howsitgoin]

To keep things in perspective - Thaksin and co have been in power for about eight years, Democrat period was very brief, by comparison, and they led the country through biggest economic crash in history. Blaming them for all Isan ills is disingenuous.

To keep things in "perspective" - the Democrats formed in recent times twice the government, and have been in power nearly as long as TRT.

Nobody blames them for all of "Isaarn ills", but they have clearly failed to introduce any necessary programs and policies in the northern and northeasters rural areas. It is sad and telling that a obviously very corrupt government - TRT government - has managed what the Democrats have only talked about but never done.

[younghusband]

Hold your horses. So far we've been talking about Thaksin, and it seems you agree that he abused his popular mandate.

Now you are saying that apart from that his policies were sound and solid.

I beg to disagree.

I don't think my position is inconsistent.Thaksin abused his position and you are right that the "populist' measures were not that well implemented.Where I incidentally disagree vigorously is that there was a significant adverse fiscal impact.As I mentioned earlier, most disinterested (using the latter word in its correct sense) studies confirm the measures had a positive impact.Clearly there was a need to focus better on the areas of real need and to avoid introducing a dependency culture.Equally to the point voters in many rural areas noted that the government was paying attention.None of this is the slightest bit unusual in a democracy.Thaksin is a has been now and hopefully politicians with more integrity will take and develop the best elements of his original policies.But at the same time the coup backing elite and its middle class hangers on must understand the fundamental premise that in a democracy all men should have equal opportunities as far as possible.

[animatic]

doubled post glitch

Edited September 27, 2008 by animatic

[animatic]

In 1997 Democrats were in opposition. They took over Chavlit and NAP led government in November, a few months after baht devaluation and when the IMF bailout package conditions were finalised.

They led their own coalition government together with Chart Thai. NAP, which became the opposition, eventually walked out of the parliament and Dems had a free pass.

To keep things in perspective - Thaksin and co have been in power for about eight years, Democrat period was very brief, by comparison, and they led the country through biggest economic crash in history. Blaming them for all Isan ills is disingenuous.

Sounds like the Dems INHERITED the worst economic situation imaginable

and it was lose /lose for them. Do what you must no matter how it hurts.

When finally things are starting to turn around in ALL of Asia,

Thaksin's crew comes in and takes credit for it.

Republicans have done the same to Dems in USA for 40 years.

Run up HUGE deficits and lower taxes to the bone, Reagan trickle down economics,

Bush I war debt, then leave a basket case,

and blame Dems for having to PAY for the salavage job.

Bush II has just done the same thing only worse.

The Thailand Dems got the shaft with an impossible situation.

Baht devalued and out of control, IMF terms 'short term' onerous and business in disarray.

As much as they could pull it together, the PERCEPTION was of ineffectuality.

Because by the time their efforts bore fruit, they had been replaced my TRT.

TRT had more to work with so they could LOOK more munificent.

Edited September 27, 2008 by animatic

[Howsitgoin]

Sounds like the Dems INHERITED the worst economic situation imaginable

and it was lose /lose for them. Do what you must no matter how it hurts.

It may sound like this, but wasn't exactly like it.

I do not dispute their achievements on an economic level post crises, and that TRT indeed has benefited from those in no small part.

Nevertheless - repairing the economy is not enough, there also needs to be policies for the poorer sectors of society. The Democrats had none whatsoever (they still have none other than poorly re-branded TRT policies). In those years the poor in the northeast and the north have been left alone completely.

TRT has proven, even though its corruption - that policies for the poorer sectors can be done, are affordable (the first fiscal report after the 2006 coup has shown that the country's finances were in order).

If the Democrats want a chance to ever win elections again, they will have to change their ways, they have to distance themselves from PAD, they have to develop policies, and they have to earn the trust of the sectors of society they have never bothered to care about.

As long as the admittedly corrupt TRT government has managed to do more for the poor than the less corrupt Democrats - that long this will be the choice of the people.

Corruption, by the way, is not just financial corruption. The Democrat's worst corruption is that they have now with supporting PAD corrupted the system of democracy. And that has done more lasting damage than anything TRT/PPP could have done.

[Plus]

In the twenty years of electorate democracy since Prem, Dems were in power twice, and their last stint in the middle of the crisis can be discounted because it wasn't on their terms.

The rest of the time, about fifteen years, it was the same group of politicians that eventually merged into TRT/PPP.

And now they conveniently blame Democrats!

Do people South of Bangkok blame Dems for negelecting them? No.

How many times Isan voted for Democrats? Never.

TRT simply made them into scapegoats and sold this idea to Isanese. It doesn't fly anywhere else.

hopefully politicians with more integrity will take and develop the best elements of his original policies

Ahem, and you base this hope on what?

It's been a year since PPP unveiled its political platform, where are these imaginary "politicians with more integrity" developing the best elements?

The only place you can possibly find them is among Democrats.

[Howsitgoin]

And now they conveniently blame Democrats!

Do people South of Bangkok blame Dems for negelecting them? No.

How many times Isan voted for Democrats? Never.

Hardly people in the South would blame the Democrats for anything - they have greatly benefited from the Democrat governments. Recently a book was published by Marc Askew (i believe) that outlines the patronage politics by the Democrats in the South.

Why would people in Isaarn vote for Democrats? Democrats have never made much effort in trying to campaign there. They left the whole area to the other parties, and formed coalitions with them. That though has changed with the emergence of TRT.

TRT has out of necessity drawn those politicians into their party, has compromised with them, of course, but at the same time has promoted as the first political party in Thai history a party platform of policies.

The biggest problems in Thailand are anyhow not in the more wealthy South, but in the rural areas of the North and the Northeast. Democrats have always stayed away from those very complex social, economical and political problems there.

A party that aspires to form a government though cannot stay away from those issues. Unless the democrats find their own solutions for these more than complex problems, and stop their shortsighted trench warfare - they will never earn the trust of the majority voters.

[Crushdepth]

Forty-six Cabinet members from the Thaksin Shinawatra administration report themselves to the Supreme Court on Friday as it begins its first trial on the lottery case.

That would be nearly all of them, wouldn't it

[ace]

Demonizing Thaksin, exaggerating with polemics that do not stand up to any research may convince the simpleminded to follow PAD. But reality is a bit more complex............................

..........................................................

No "New Politics" or politically inspired lawsuits are going to change one bit when the obviously flawed and corrupt TRT/PPP government was the best government for the majority of the Thai people they ever had.

First come up with alternatives, before destroying everything.

Really good post. Lot's of polemics, shouting, stupid policies from the PAD and little else IMO.

[hammered]

And now they conveniently blame Democrats!

Do people South of Bangkok blame Dems for negelecting them? No.

How many times Isan voted for Democrats? Never.

Hardly people in the South would blame the Democrats for anything - they have greatly benefited from the Democrat governments. Recently a book was published by Marc Askew (i believe) that outlines the patronage politics by the Democrats in the South.

Why would people in Isaarn vote for Democrats? Democrats have never made much effort in trying to campaign there. They left the whole area to the other parties, and formed coalitions with them. That though has changed with the emergence of TRT.

TRT has out of necessity drawn those politicians into their party, has compromised with them, of course, but at the same time has promoted as the first political party in Thai history a party platform of policies.

The biggest problems in Thailand are anyhow not in the more wealthy South, but in the rural areas of the North and the Northeast. Democrats have always stayed away from those very complex social, economical and political problems there.

A party that aspires to form a government though cannot stay away from those issues. Unless the democrats find their own solutions for these more than complex problems, and stop their shortsighted trench warfare - they will never earn the trust of the majority voters.

In all fairness the Dems were the largest party in the North of Thailand pre-TRT. Then when in the great suck (money politcs, not sex related) Thaksin came along he hoovered all the sitting Dem MPs in the North into TRT bar a couple. The Dems were never a large party in the Isaan. Then again until the TRT was created out of huge numbers of sitting MPs from all kinds of parties the Dems were also just about the only party that had MPs in every region. TRT was just a new phenomenon. Thailand had never seen a truly national party before them and even if it was built on sucking in vast numbers of MPs from other parties who were unbeatable in rural areas and grafting in few clean hands intially to appeal to Urabn voters it did set a new standard that hasnt been matched to date. It does now though look like we may be goign back to more regionally based parties in the future.

by the way I wouldnt exactly discount the problerms in the South. They could well be around for far longer than asny of the other problems we curently see.

[Howsitgoin]

by the way I wouldnt exactly discount the problerms in the South. They could well be around for far longer than asny of the other problems we curently see.

Of course i took the problems of the three provinces out of the equation here - those problems precede the Thai Nation state, and all political Parties. Right now the biggest problem in the South is that so many there allowed themselves be blinded by PAD.

And yes, you are right, TRT set a new standard. Unfortunately the Democrats did not follow their example, and started building a proper party. Going back to regional based parties, with mostly regional interests forming weak coalitions is not a step forward.

[sriracha john]

thread title:

Thaksin And 30 Members Of His Cabinet Indicted, total of 47 indicted on a variety of charges

[Plus]

The South that votes for Democrats and the "three province insurgency" South are not the same thing. Deep South always voted for NAP and then TRT. Only in 2005 Dems were able to clean sweep the area. In 2007 other coalition parties gained some footing there.

TRT set a standard in consolidating all the scum of Thai politics under one roof in one mighty party.

Some go ga ga over their policy platform and don't notice that the horse is dead - there aren't any policies and there isn't any platform left. Whatever dreams the idealists had - they are all gone. Time to wake up.

The only attraction to PPP is patronage and Thaksin's name.

The argument that Dems hold on to the South (and the West, and the East, and Bangkok, and urban centers) because of their own patronage while TRT/PPP controls Isan because of their attractive policies is just plain nonsense.

[Plus]

Oh, yes, SJ, the thread title is about 30 members indictment, but

We have a brand new member here who wants to unravel all complexities of Thai politics for the past thirty years. Please give a newbie a warm welcome. We haven't talked about complexities in a long while, since last incarnation of that serial offender who signed under new name every couple of weeks just to talk about complexities.

That fellow was a real pest, like those PPP Cabinet members with several court cases hanging over them. Everytime they swear to start a new life and everytime it ends exactly the same.

[Howsitgoin]

The only attraction to PPP is patronage and Thaksin's name.

The argument that Dems hold on to the South (and the West, and the East, and Bangkok, and urban centers) because of their own patronage while TRT/PPP controls Isan because of their attractive policies is just plain nonsense.

This is more just hyperbole and polemics.

The attraction of many voters to PPP is hope, and fear of PAD attempts (with even increasingly open support of the "Democrat" Party of Thailand) to take the vote away from people with some of their proposals for "New Politics". Of course we will have to wait until a final definition of that brainfart is finally made. We are waiting...

The Democrats get most votes in the more wealthy areas of Thailand, naturally, because those are the sectors of society they aim at. But that is not enough to form a popularly elected government. The only chance they have to ever form again another government is by completely destroying TRT/PPP.

Democrat tactics - hope to get back into government by destroying your opponent and not even trying to compete.

Secondly - it is hardly possible to implement any policy when the government is blocked at every step they are taking, by both legal, and clearly unconstitutional measures. What did most outside the PAD cult call the conviction of Samak over his cooking show (even sworn enemies of Samak) - the letter of the law may have been fulfilled, the spirit of the law has been led ad absurdum.

How can you expect the government to implement anything while their seat of Government is illegally occupied by a ultranationalist cult that has already murdered one of their opponents, and crippled more.

What was the latest stunt of PAD? Another violent clash, now with airport security guards in Surat Thani over...what was it...blocking the Prime Minister from leaving Surat, after they have failed from blocking his arrival.

As another poster has already mentioned - the "legal" cases against Thaksin, his family and the 30 Membes of his cabinet are smeared by the staffing of the investigating committee by sworn enemies of Thaksin, who even have appeared at the stage of PAD. Hardly what what can call neutral and objective.

There are no doubt many wrongdoings to be investigated, and there are some cases to be made. They though are smeared by politics such as bringing idiotic cases to trial such as the lottery case. And other, much more serious allegations are even completely ignored, as those would go a bit too close home.

Why though did PAD with Democrat support anyhow stage their putsch attempt exactly at the time these cases started to go to court? Why not letting the courts handle the issue first, and in case of misjudgements in favour of Thaksin come out?

Why is it that PAD and their supporters always come up with these courtcases, when they themselves have only shown blatant disregard to the courts and the law. Let me remind you - the arrest warrants for treason are still valid. Why don't you demand the surrender of the accused with the same vehemence you do for Thaksin & Co.

One man has been brutally murdered. Why don't you demand an investigation into this murder, and the deliverance of the murderers to justice?

I have not seen any PAD supporter here on this forum making one statement condemning this murder. This is truly disgusting.

[TAWP]

One man dead in a street-fight is hardly murder. Manslaughter at best. Guess you are not a lawyer...

Now 2500 dead by special police forces acting on list from higher ups, that would be murders...have you been out protesting they should be brought to justice yet, Howsitgoin?

[Howsitgoin]

One man dead in a street-fight is hardly murder. Manslaughter at best. Guess you are not a lawyer...

Now 2500 dead by special police forces acting on list from higher ups, that would be murders...have you been out protesting they should be brought to justice yet, Howsitgoin?

The way how this one 56 year old man died was clearly not manslaughter.

He was down, and his head was repeatedly beaten until his face turned into something not very appetizing.

As to the drug war murders (most likely far more than 2500) - this case i would have loved seeing to go to the courts. But very conveniently - the military installed committee could not find any connection to Thaksin - shelved.

Which i guess is also convenient for Sondhi Limthongkul - at the time still staunch Thaksin ally - who has during that disgusting campaign used his media machine to support those killings, and has therefore been a not unimportant tool of propaganda enabling wide acceptance for the killings.

[younghusband]

One man dead in a street-fight is hardly murder. Manslaughter at best. Guess you are not a lawyer...

Now 2500 dead by special police forces acting on list from higher ups, that would be murders...have you been out protesting they should be brought to justice yet, Howsitgoin?

If you really want to delve in to who connived/approved/winked at the drugs war atrocities or who exactly the "higher ups" are, I should be intertested to hear the results of your research.