Mrsam in a jam

[MrSam]

Okay... I've got 45 days. I need a degree (that can be VERIFIED!). I've got the money... now I need the degree. Any ideas?!  ???

A degree that can be varified is required. I've been warned by a good friend in the company that they will be checking it, so the University of Khao San won't work.

Anyone with info, please let me know. E-mail me or post back here.

[MrSam]

Oh, come on... doesn't anyone have some idea?! I'm really running out of time here....

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Sam a sensible employer that checks will have a guidebook  or  program with the names of all the non formal universities listed. Real uni's don't provide a degree overnight.

[MrSam]

Well, actually, there are... agencies... that provide such degrees through legal loopholes. While they refuse to name what universities they can get the degree from before you order, they are supposed to be legal and can be varified. That's where that friend I was talking about got his. The only problem is you need a credit card in your name to order it (www.instantdegrees.com is one of them). As long as it can be varified, it's good enough for me for now. I'm leaving in about 6 months and I need to keep this job until then. So I either need a credit card here (which I've had no luck in finding without a work permit) or a source for such a degree.  

[Roger13]

Mr Sam

Does your need for a Credit Card

include Borrowing the money?

If you have the Funds you should be

able to get a Debit Card.

Roger

[dlfisher]

If this is to teach English, then the long accepted idea that seems to always be posted here is that they will never check.

Too, you gotta be kidding yourself if you think anything called instantdegree.com is going to hook you up with a verifiable degree. Think, 'verifiable,' hmm, maybe more than just a piece of paper.

If they actually verify it, hope you have a 'money-back' guarantee that will be awaiting you at the US border, as the penalty for filing false  documents and getting caught at it will probably hasten your departure and get you blacklisted as well. Because somehow, I don't think the Registar's Office at Harvard, or MIT or Texas A&M (my alma mater) will be playing along.

Best of luck

[LPCustom69]

I wouldn't think the company that you are working for would care about a degree. After all, you said you don't have a work permit, which I think the company would, and should, be more concerned with. And that would lead to your bank giving you a debit card. Good luck.

 :cool:

[MrSam]

Well, that's why I need the degree, because they are insisting that I apply for a work permit.

I think I'm just going to delay them as long as I can until my wife's visa passes then I'll be going home to study for a REAL degree.

I don't know if I want to risk giving them a fake degree. I think that will get me fired, black listed, and kicked out like someone mentioned above if it is checked. It's probably better if I delay them as long as I can, and if needs be, I will just tell them I have some emergency and leave... then get another job for a little while before I go back home.

Thanks for the opinions, and anyone else who wants to post something about this, I'm still open to suggestions (except "give up")...

[MrSam]

Well, MrSam is out of that jam. I did manage to find a verifiable and legal degree thanks to a good friend of mine. A certain university (I'm not allowed to say which since you all know what I'm up to) is registering me as having studied there and has issued me a BSc in English (exactly what I needed).

Thanks for all of your advice.  

[dlfisher]

Should this make us feel pity for the children of Thailand?

[IonFlux]

I'm sorry MrSam but what you've done seems to make a mockery out of some people who actually go the legal route to find work in Thailand(ie - have a relevant and REAL English degree, fulfilled the necessary criteria etc). I know you're planning to get your real degree when you get back but do you think what you're doing is right as a whole? It will eventually cast all foreigners(white or otherwise, I'm yellow BTW) in a pretty negative light and make the legit foreigners task of getting employment in LOS that much harder don't you think?

Just my 2 cents.

[MrSam]

Ah, but it is legitimate. That's the part some people don't see to understand.

Universities can issue degrees based on experience or work background. That's completely legal. With the way I went (not that instantdegrees.com crap) I actually had to get approved for this.

Besides, if I know my stuff, what's the point in going through a whole English program to relearn the stuff I already know?

Anyway, it's just a temp fix until I can go back home in 6 months. I really had no choice. It was that or lose my job at the university.

[Charlie]

Good luck to you Sam. Just to advise you in good faith.

If you are unfortunate to be exposed... then charged and convicted, you may land yourself in " BANGKOK HILTON " or some other monkey houses. You are taking a big risk, and especialy you are not familiar with the legal system here. Nonetheless, I am wishing you all the best.

Regards,

[MrSam]

See, you guys are totally misunderstanding it. Nothing I have done is illegal, here or in the States. Everything I have done to obtain the degree is completely legal, in both places.

And I have been here for long enough that I am familiar with the laws. There's nothing they can do, no crime has been commited. I was issued a legitimate degree from a legit university based on my abilities and experience. A completely legal, although uncommon, practice.

Everyone here is talking as if it's Khao San degree or something, which it isn't. If it was, then you would be right, I'd be taking a big risk. I've looked into this very much in the past few weeks, even through Thai and international law. There is nothing legally wrong with what I'm doing, so how would I end up in any trouble at all?

[pnustedt]

Congratulations on your graduation MrSam.

You could get a photo of the graduation ceremony with a bit of creative use of Photoshop. I have a friend who sells very good glass/gilt frames - well their plastic but just like the real thing!

[MrSam]

Aww come on guys. Like I said, it's just a temporary fix. I have to remain here for another 6 months and I have to continue working.

After that, I'll be going back to actually study again. I really have no choice. Hate me for it, mock me for it, whatever.

A degree isn't really necessary to teach English, but I'm not saying that anyone can do it either. I've been doing it for years and I know I'm good at what I do. Believe me, it wasn't easy convincing the university that I was capable of this. They're very strict about giving degrees like this. I had a bit of help, but it wasn't really needed except for the contact within the university.

A fool can go to university for 4 years and still come out a fool. I mean, look at the Thai university system. A dear friend of mine received a degree in Agro Technology and she still doesn't know the first thing about it.

There are a lot of good teachers here without degrees. You can't teach someone how to be a good teacher. It's an ability.

[Roger13]

Universities can issue degrees based on experience or work background.

A certain university is registering me as having studied there and has issued me a BSc in English.

So is "registering me as having studied there" Legal?

[MrSam]

Actually, yes it is. I looked into this about a week ago because I thought the same thing. I thought it would get me in a #### of a jam, but it is indeed legal.

The university explained it to me as well, and everything they've told me I've been able to confirm as being a legal practice, while, like I said, uncommon.

[LPCustom69]

MrSam, I'm glad you were able to stay in LOS long enough to get your wifes visa straightened out. However, I feel that you could get into legal trouble if caught. The university that issued you the diploma basically committed fraud, as did you. In Ohio in the States last year a supervisor working for the large city on the lake was arrested with your type of diploma. She was charged with fraud, claiming to be a college graduate in a job that required it, all she had was a diploma from some university based on life experiences! She is awaiting sentencing, I believe, and has to make some restitution. Understand that no respectable university will sell a degree, not when they can collect tuition for four years, and train you properly. Good luck.

:cool:

[MrSam]

Is that so? I hadn't heard that. I have been looking into it, and still have found nothing on the legal end.

Thank you for your constructive critcism of my actions though, more than anyone else has done...  ::

[chonabot]

registering me as having studied there and has issued me a BSc in English (exactly what I needed).

Thanks for all of your advice.  

Mr Sam , just one point, perhaps pedantic, I have a B.A in English, I have never heard of a B.Sc in an arts related field ( i.e. English). Of course if its just a typo, no offense meant

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Yeah .......pity the kids getting another untrained halfwit inflicted upon them. Mind you the " legal " degree he has

into may get him into Klong Prem for fraud.  It'd be a bit

hard to find a lot of sympathy for him.

CHONABOT the uni concerned is an illegal diploma mill and

the niceties of traditional degrees would be lost on 'em

[surin]

Well, MrSam is out of that jam. I did manage to find a verifiable and legal degree thanks to a good friend of mine. A certain university (I'm not allowed to say which since you all know what I'm up to) is registering me as having studied there and has issued me a BSc in English (exactly what I needed).

Thanks for all of your advice.  

Mr Sam is out of a Jam....Sammy Boy, I'm an M.P WITH A GREAT LOVE OF L.O.S......I only hope you're not an Aussie  

[MrSam]

Yeah .......pity the kids getting another untrained halfwit inflicted upon them.

Sorry Dr. Pat Pong, I know you're an admin, but you replied so I am only defending myself.

You don't know me, don't act like you do. You have no right to judge me as anything, so please don't.

[MrSam]

Mr Sam , just one point, perhaps pedantic, I have a B.A in English, I have never heard of a B.Sc in an arts related field ( i.e. English). Of course if its just a typo, no offense meant

Sorry, missed this before.

Yes, that was a mental error on my part. I don't know why I put B.Sc. when it is in fact a BA.

Thanks for pointing that out.

As for everyone else who has nothing good to say... I do my job and I do it well. In order to remain here for another 6 months, I had to do something. If someone has a better way for me to remain here for another 6 months and remain employed, I'm open to suggestions. There's no reason for some of the feedback I've been getting, especially when there are a lot worse people here than myself.

If no one else has anything helpful to say, I'm done with this topic.

Sorry, edited to say something else...

I'm receiving numerous e-mails and messages from people in the same situation asking me for contact details for the university. Please don't ask me, because I can't tell anyone. Based on what I've heard here, it wouldn't be good idea to share those details. Since everyone knows the nature of the degree, I'm not allowed to share the origin (agreement with the university).

[tiger tanaka]

Sorry, but airing you problem in such a flippant and casual manner is an insult to those who have attended university or college  and worked hard, long hours for a degree (plus probably paying a #### of a lot of money).  And a smart person wouldn't make this personal problem public.  You just set yourself up to catch a lot of flack.

Japanese immigration often telephones the institution to check the validity of the degree.  They caught onto the diploma-mill act more than a decade ago.  Maybe Thai immigration should start doing that.  However,  I agree with Mr Sam, there are some very good teachers without degrees.   But teachers can learn to be good, or better teachers from instruction in higher education.   Teaching is more than just an "ability" as you say.  Sorry to give you a hard time, but you come across as a bit arrogant in your posts.   A lot of people take education very seriously, especially in my country (Japan), and we don't like it when people try to scam their way through the process.  It is not honorable.  Nor honest.

Excuse me for being rude,

Tanaka

[Roger13]

Okay... I've got 45 days. I need a degree (that can be VERIFIED!). I've got the money... now I need the degree. Any ideas?!  ???

You never told us how much it cost ... !

[MrSam]

No one asked...  

Not sure I want to share that anyway. I've gotten enough negative criticism over this as it is.  ???

[dlfisher]

Boo Hoo!!! Sorry, pal, but I have to agree with the other post earlier. You go online and write a novella regarding a 'verifiable degree' or something to that nature, and then ad the idea of using instantdegree.com. Well, you rather set yourself up for less than flattering commentary.

Yes, a person may in fact be a good teacher, sans degree. But is that person imparting the correct knowledge or using an appropriate pedagogy? Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. If you're teaching, THIS IS A PENCIL, you're probably on the safe side of this. If you're teaching IELTS or TOEFL through one of these English language gin mills, then its a travesty for the students. I don't mean you personally, I mean the industry and many of the people involved as a whole.

We all know, hard to be an ex-pat here and not, lots of people teaching English to pay their rent here. I've seen both kinds, sadly far more of the second form.

In any event, as Dr. Pat Pong put it, if you end up in a Thai dungeon, best of luck with that as well. If not, then more power to you. Just be warned,  I don't think anybody here is going to start a 'saveMr.Sam.com' website if it does happen.

Adieu

[Thetyim]

What about all the politicians, big brass and royals who get given honourary degrees ??

They never studied for it.

They never get locked up.