Bible Thumpers, Proselytizers Special Visa Or Voa?

[cm-happy]

Do Bible thumpers or proselytizers have a special visa for them to work in LOS, or are they here generally just on a VOA? If only on a VOA, don't think I've ever heard of one getting caught in an immigration sweep for working illegally.

They seem to be pretty much ignored by the authorities and allowed to go about their business annoying others, despite, if here on VOA, working here illegally.

Others thoughts??

[londonthai]

yes, there is a separate visa for them - whether they do quaify and whether they did apply for it is a different matter.

[kiakaha]

There is a Non Immigrant category for religious missions , category "R" I believe.

[Jingthing]

They are clearly undesirable whatever visa they are on. They reflect very poorly on foreigners. They make sex tourists and backpacker visa runners look good by comparison, so they do serve a higher purpose. god works in mysterious ways! (Can we look forward to a crackdown?)

Seriously, if religious people are doing charity work and providing services to poor Thai people, that is one thing. But actively working to convert people, to change their religion, why does Thailand need to import foreigners for that questionable activity? Assuming they do officially allow this, well at least it shows an admirable TOLERANCE.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Jingthing

[JetsetBkk]

why does Thailand need to import foreigners for that questionable activity?

Thailand doesn't import them. They come here voluntarily because they are scared sh1tless of doing the same in a Muslim country. But that's a whole new can of worms best not opened here.

[Naam]

a gift for bible thumpers:

[Jingthing]

Naam, but we all know Christians are all non-violent.

Its all in the book. Who needs bookstores, libraries, and amazon.com when you have one book that tells you EVERYTHING?

Actually, it really is too easy to diss bible thumpers, and the really sick thing is they LIKE IT. They act like they are persecuted and this charges them up even more.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Jingthing

[cm-happy]

a gift for bible thumpers:

Naam--I LOVED THAT!! Fell off my chair laughing

[Naam]

Naam, but we all know Christians are all non-violent.

tell me about it! my 'fatherland' is Germany, a christian country which over many centuries has abhorred violence, kept peace with its neighbours, stopped wars when its neighbours started them, etc., etc., etc.

[buffcoat]

The last one I met (in the UK) was jabbering on about their book being the literal word of God so I asked him if he agreed that urban rape victims should be executed since that is what it says in the OT....he made a few incoherent noises and then left.

I only feel sad when I see these creatures trying to save the Thais...the implied arrogance in their behaviour is astounding.

the special status for ministers of religion is a good example of Thai tolerance.....perhaps if I ever hit problems with the visa authorities I will start up my own mission.

Seriously I would be very happy if the Thai authorities had a very close look at how genuine these individuals are.

[cm-happy]

OK so there is an Non-Imm type "R" for these guys. Seems an easy out for many with visa problems. Start their own Church ( ill suggest it be called "THE FIRST CHURCH OF THE GOOEY DEATH AND DISCOUNT HOUSE OF WORSHIP". Have it issue letters of missionary work for those who want it over here.

[Andrew Hicks]

I saw a group of American evangelists putting on a come to the Lord dramatic performance in a Chiang Mai nightmarket.

I asked them if they were saying Buddhism is no good to which they said they had the right of free speech.

As if there are not enough divisions in this world without groups such as this creating more!

Today in Surin I saw two white blokes on bikes wearing neckties. They looked very suspicious to me.

[Jingthing]

I think we have stumbled upon the next great LOOPHOLE. Immigration authorities, take note!

I am under the impression that to these sort of fundamentalists, Buddhism is the devil's work, so again you have to admire Thai tolerance for allowing this to go on.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

After 4.5 years here, I can count the missionaries I've met on one hand, well two hands at the most. The most recent ones is the Asian couple who are ministering to their own race of foreigners. Someone in Chiang Mai pointed out that 99% of all the converts to Christianity he's seen are Hill Tribe animists, not regular Thai Buddhists. I worked with a Thai lady who was raised by missionaries as an orphan; she's a Buddhist. The Jesuit priest missionaries I've met are nice folks, and not screaming on street corners. The tuk tuk driver at the gay sauna is a happily married, straight, Hill Tribe Catholic. I met a former missionary; she's a lesbian Christian non-missionary now. I guess those Mennonite ladies teaching school might count, unless you realize what mild forms of 'evangelistic work' most Mennonites do. I've glanced at some obvious Mormons, but they were riding past on bicycles. I may have dined with some at Duke's this week, but they didn't identify themselves; in fact, McGriffith was doing most of the shouting.

I've seen more harmful Thais than I've seen farang missionaries. And I'm trained to recognize missionary types. Oh, I did attend their church a couple of times, but they sang without shouting, and I had to go there to find them.

I think Taksin Shinawatra did more harm to Thailand in ten years than all the missionaries have ever done.

[Jingthing]

Yeah Dukes is a hotbed.

PB, I don't mean to say that all Christians are bad people. However, I think missions are suspect. And Mormonism is kind of a cult even in its land of origin, so I have a bigger problem with them. To uneducated locals, Mormonism is a mainstream religion. It really isn't even if the US might soon elect a Mormon president who recently promised to exclude Muslims from his administration, what a prize..

Edited November 28, 2007 by Jingthing

[samran]

OI!

Just take care to remember forum rules people:

"3) Religious (slurs)......will not be tolerated."

For the visa situation, they'd have to be on some sort of official visa. To be eligble to get that Visa, that religion has to be recognised (to use a non legal term) by the Thai government. Once you have that, then you can set up missions here etc, and get the Visa. A mate who used to work for a law firm here at one point was trying to oversee the application of recognition for some group or other (maybe the Jehova's Witnesses) and the RTG knocked back the application, which is pretty much the norm as I've been led to believe. The mormons are allowed here, and so are a bunch of fairly 'mainstream' Christian faiths.

Anyway: just my two cents.

You gotta give these people a bit or respect for coming half way across the world and doing what they do. You don't have to like it, and just politiely say no thanks. Or even better, invite them in and have a chat.

I grew up in a predominately Jewish suburb in Australia and bought up Catholic. I'm not into religious tub thumping as it goes against my natural instincts. One of my cousins just happened to convert to become a Mormon and rose quite high in that church (is there such thing as a Mormon bishop?). Anyway, when the American lads were in town, they were told to make a pitstop at our place, as door knocking in a Jewish suburb is a tough gig where most were frightened ex Holocoust survivors (who wouldn't answer the door). They were like anyone else, up for a chat, missing home, just young kids basically alone, and on the other side of the world. You'd talk about sports, the world, anything but religion. Sure, we had a stack of unread Morom bibles in the corner, but who cares?

Being nice is always easier than being a prick to these guys.

[Jingthing]

Mormons are very anti-gay. Mormon gay youth therefore have a massive suicide rate. Throughout most of their history, black people were excluded until as recently as 1978. They believe the US state of Missouri will be a holy land (that one is not bad, just an example of silliness). They really do believe Thai Buddhists are heathens, is that respectful? Is it bashing to tell the truth?

If the Ku Klux Klan came to Thailand, would we be tolerant of them?

It is one thing for a group to act in hateful ways. It is yet another to travel around the world SPREADING that belief system. So that is the objection.

BTW, for Americans who think there is no issue with having a Mormon president, maybe think again:

http://www.slate.com/id/2178568/

Edited November 28, 2007 by Jingthing

[samran]

Mormons are very anti-gay. Throughout most of their history, black people were excluded. They believe the US state of Missouri will be a holy land. Is it bashing to tell the truth?

Debate is fine. Disporove what they have to say, with logic, reason and argument. Even if you agree to disagree (I know that is beyond the scope of many punters, but I think you have it in you JingJing).

I used to know this guy who had a PHD in Theology, was a Catholic, trained to become a priest but saw the light and went into politics (!). Anyway, he told the story of two missionaries come around to his house, and he had an open door policy to these guys. One of the missionaries was quite young, the other much older, and a bit more experienced.

Anway, the story goes that the young one all keen and enthusiastic walked in and started to jabber away asking him questions regarding all things faith and spirituality. The older one (having looked around the room and noticed all the academic religous material scattered around my mates place) turned to his younger college and told him to hush up. My mate had to laugh afterwards as he would have (exuse the pun) crucified him in any religious debate.

[kiakaha]

For the visa situation, they'd have to be on some sort of official visa. To be eligble to get that Visa, that religion has to be recognised (to use a non legal term) by the Thai government.

And for all you loopholers....

Football is not a religion.

Nor is Jedi.

And the old school Greek Gods have left the building.

[samran]

Mormons are very anti-gay. Mormon gay youth therefore have a massive suicide rate. Throughout most of their history, black people were excluded. They believe the US state of Missouri will be a holy land. They really do believe Thai Buddhists are heathens, is that respectful? Is it bashing to tell the truth?

If the Ku Klux Klan came to Thailand, would we be tolerant of them?

It is one thing for a group to act in hateful ways. It is yet another to travel around the world SPREADING that belief system. So that is the objection.

funny, my cousin has never told me or anyone else my mother is a heathen. She'd be an easy target for him as well.

[kiakaha]

Mormons are very anti-gay. Mormon gay youth therefore have a massive suicide rate. Throughout most of their history, black people were excluded. They believe the US state of Missouri will be a holy land. They really do believe Thai Buddhists are heathens, is that respectful? Is it bashing to tell the truth?

If the Ku Klux Klan came to Thailand, would we be tolerant of them?

It is one thing for a group to act in hateful ways. It is yet another to travel around the world SPREADING that belief system. So that is the objection.

Let them come...who else can I use my BB gun on from my 15th floor snipers nest when they come down my soi

[chanchao]

I think Taksin Shinawatra did more harm to Thailand in ten years than all the missionaries have ever done.

And I think he did more GOOD to Thailand than all the PM's before him.

Nice thread-jack though.

Edited November 28, 2007 by chanchao

[kankaroo]

Man those guys are funny, and stupid though, I mean, standing at the entrance of Nana Plaza on a Friday night in suits screaming about immorality and sin and all that BS was just so insane. Absolutely absurd!

Do they actually think that even one sozzled farang with his lady for the evening is going to suddenly stop in his tracks on the way to the ST hotel room and say : "What I'm doing is wrong ! I have seen the error in my evil ways ! I will now go back to my room alone and flagellate myself until I pass out!"

I love winding them up when I've had a few though. They are more to be pitied really!

[kankaroo]

Oh yeah, also does that mean I could get past the 3 months and yer out visa BS now if I say I am on a mission, or something?

That is a serious question BTW !

[kiakaha]

Man those guys are funny, and stupid though, I mean, standing at the entrance of Nana Plaza on a Friday night in suits screaming about immorality and sin and all that BS was just so insane. Absolutely absurd!

Do they actually think that even one sozzled farang with his lady for the evening is going to suddenly stop in his tracks on the way to the ST hotel room and say : "What I'm doing is wrong ! I have seen the error in my evil ways ! I will now go back to my room alone and flagellate myself until I pass out!"

I love winding them up when I've had a few though. They are more to be pitied really!

They do have balls preaching at that particular location. I mean, so close to the Nana Burger mustard and ketchup dispensers..they are just asking for it

[toptuan]

Bible Thumpers / Bible Bashers. All from the same ilk. Ever notice the similarities?

Oh-hum, another anti-religious bigot thread which shows up consistently about twice a month.

[kiakaha]

Bible Thumpers / Bible Bashers. All from the same ilk. Ever notice the similarities?

Oh-hum, another anti-religious bigot thread which shows up consistently about twice a month.

But other "make believe" stuff just doesn't lend itself to so invitingly take the piss out of (Cinderella, Snow White, Santa Claus, The TelliTubbies etc..)

[samran]

Bible Thumpers / Bible Bashers. All from the same ilk. Ever notice the similarities?

Oh-hum, another anti-religious bigot thread which shows up consistently about twice a month.

this one came a bit early in the cycle.

I personally thought it was time for the regular "why england is going to the dogs (cause of all the evil migrants)" thread. Ah well, I'll wait till next week then.

[GuestHouse]

Once again we churn out the anti faith bigotry. One day Islam, today Christianity.

Better if those Christian types stuck to running orphanages for the unwanted children of sex tourists eh!

OK they can extend their services to looking after the victims of HIV AIDS.

And I guess nobody is complaining about them working with drug addicts, the homeless, the desperately poor and the stateless ethnic minority 'hill tribes'.

Just don't let them talk about why they want to do some good in the world and where they get their inspiration from.

[jetjock]

I agree that many of these religious organisations do a lot of good work in the form of charity. Unfortunately they give back to the people only a very small portion of what they take in and with the majority of money going into building monuments and wealth for their own religious organisation. It is also unfortunate that it is sometimes the poorest of people that contribute the most to these religious groups in hopes of being blessed and saved from their sad or miserable lives.

This is not to pick on any particular religion as many others are exactly the same but here is just an example of the extreme profitablity of bible thumping. The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. A large bulk of this is stored in gold ingots with the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank, while banks in England and Switzerland hold the rest. But this is just a small portion of the wealth of the Vatican, which in the U.S. alone, is greater than that of the five wealthiest giant corporations of the country. When to that is added all the real estate, property, stocks and shares abroad, then the staggering accumulation of the wealth of the Catholic church becomes so formidable as to defy any rational assessment.

The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. The pope, as the visible ruler of this immense amassment of wealth, is consequently the richest individual of the twentieth century. No one can realistically assess how much he is worth in terms of billions of dollars.