Making Hams

[mpdkorat]

I'm very interested in making my own hams, but I need to get hold of Dinprasew ดินประสิว which is known as Potassium Nitrate, commonly referred to as Saltpeter, Chemical code Kn03

Dinprasew is a food preservative substance and colour fixation, it’s also used to stop botulism bacteria when brining / making ham. It is white in colour and looks like salt.

Anyone any ideas where I can buy this product.

[Farma]

I would look in the fresh produce food market. It should be sold there. Failing that, ask the people selling sausages or meat where to get some from.

[wmchen]

I would look in the fresh produce food market. It should be sold there. Failing that, ask the people selling sausages or meat where to get some from.

see if you can buy them at chinese medical shop. here in malaysia they have. And also check with phamacist. it is an ingredient for gun powder.

[Naam]

I'm very interested in making my own hams, but I need to get hold of Dinprasew ดินประสิว which is known as Potassium Nitrate, commonly referred to as Saltpeter, Chemical code Kn03

Dinprasew is a food preservative substance and colour fixation, it’s also used to stop botulism bacteria when brining / making ham. It is white in colour and looks like salt.

Anyone any ideas where I can buy this product.

using Potassium Nitrate for any food stuff is strictly forbidden in Europe since the early 70s!

[Farma]

There’s an interesting article “Nitrite in Meat” on this link http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/...ion/DJ0974.html

It gives the USDA allowances for the use of nitrates including their use in curing ham.

To quote the summary.

“Based on available evidence to date, nitrite as used in meat and meat products is considered safe because known benefits outweigh potential risks.”

[thaipete]

A lot of hardware stores sell it Up country as it is used in gunpowder

[thaipete]

Don't forget ham should be dry salted otherwise you will get gammon

[Farma]

I’ve just checked with some Thai friends. They said it’s used for making Naem (the pink cured sausage) and usually sold in local wholesale shops. Just look for those shophouses stocked with cases of drinks, tinned tuna, mama noodles etc.

[mpdkorat]

I've just checked with some Thai friends. They said it's used for making Naem (the pink cured sausage) and usually sold in local wholesale shops. Just look for those shophouses stocked with cases of drinks, tinned tuna, mama noodles etc.

Well thanks to you all. I was able to find it in the local food market, which did surprise me but there you go. For those of you that live in Korat its sold in Yamo fresh food market. 80 bt a kg

[LtLOS]

saltpeter is the old method of curing, there are many new...well last 100 years...methods that enable you to both cure and insure you are not exposing yourself to potentially dangerous food safety issues. For reference here's one article that explains in all pretty well:

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/nitrates-intro.htm

Pay attention to the curing temperatures required for the saltpeter verus the modern cures...#1, #2. I import all my cures and associated products. There are many sites that provide good products. Some of my sources:

http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/index.php

http://www.butcher-packer.com/

I do a brine cured (about 14 days at 36-40°F) whole ham, then smoke it to 135°f internal temp. Requires some practice and experimenting, but the ability to cure at a safe temp is important in this region.

[mpdkorat]

saltpeter is the old method of curing, there are many new...well last 100 years...methods that enable you to both cure and insure you are not exposing yourself to potentially dangerous food safety issues. For reference here's one article that explains in all pretty well:

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/nitrates-intro.htm

Pay attention to the curing temperatures required for the saltpeter verus the modern cures...#1, #2. I import all my cures and associated products. There are many sites that provide good products. Some of my sources:

http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/index.php

http://www.butcher-packer.com/

I do a brine cured (about 14 days at 36-40°F) whole ham, then smoke it to 135°f internal temp. Requires some practice and experimenting, but the ability to cure at a safe temp is important in this region.

Thanks for the imput LtLos. Getting the temperature right is going to be one of the biggest headaches. How are you managing to keep the teperature stable?

[LtLOS]

The 36 to 40 is not hard to regulate in a regular fridge. I have a large fridge I use for this, I've found a plastic tub that both holds a full ham and can fit into the bottom of that fridge. I then use a digital probe thermometer to set the brine temp at around 39. This works well. Be carefull curing at higher temps using brining, with Potassium Nitrate, read up on food safety and you will find you are outside the safe zone above 40. Was it done, can it be done, yes, but there are some risks, that's one reason cure 1 and 2 methods are preferred today.

For other foods such as sour kraut which likes a temp around 70 degress for fermentation, I have an old fridge I modified to allow it to run at higher temps for processes like this.

[JohnBKKK]

Hi,

making Ham ..... my advice would be .. don't // the reasons are simple, it takes more than just curing and than boiling to make a ham that is anywhere near a good commercially produced ham -

Boiled ham is made in a "wet" cure or brine made up of salt - sugar - and nitrite (NOT saltpeter) and Erythorbate (Erythorbate is required today by the FDA to avoide the development of "Nitrosamines" during digesting and makes Nitrite even safer) - Nitrite, if used in the correct measurements is totally harmless and you eat it every day, especially if you live healthy and eat lots of greens - but it is a highly toxic poison when used incorrectly -

The ham also needs to be injected with the brine to about 1/4 of its weight to achieve consistant coloring and preservation - for that you need a special syringe that looks like something a vet uses on a horse. A lot of the injected liquid will be removed during the "boiling" process since ham is a muscle and will contract during "boiling". Here is where cheap Ham gains a lot of weight by injecting a lot more brine so that after the "cooking" process a lot more weight is gained. The more you put in, the more youhave left.

We use commercial refridgeration to keep an exact temperature of 5C for the curing process which lasts about 5 days.

Boiled Ham is not really boiled - this would result in a very strange piece of meat - under "boiling" we understand 85C which is done in a thermostatically controlled waterbath

Now, if someone at home want's to make a really nice ham, make a baked ham - try and get a ham ON THE BONE - criss cross cut the fat some 2-3 mm deep- than rub/massage the ham very firmly with a mixture of coursly ground pepper/cloves/salt/bayleaves, place into a plastic container which you fill with 1/3 red wine vinegar and 2/3 red wine - leave to marinate in your refridgerator for a week (make sure the ham is totally submerged) - remove - dry with some kitchen tissue place on a rack and into your oven - bake slowly at 180C and base with the marinating liquid every 10 minutes until its done - best use a meat thermometer to ckeck

The result is well worth the effort and most defenately beats the Xmas Turkey- serve with cumberland sauce and later cold on sandwiches with cumberland sauce

Cumberland sauce

1 medium lemon - juice of

1 medium orange - juice of

the finely ground skin of one orange

5 heaped tablespoons good-quality redcurrant jelly

5 tablespoons port

1 heaped teaspoon mustard powder

1 teaspoon ground ginger

[mpdkorat]

Hi,

making Ham ..... my advice would be .. don't // the reasons are simple, it takes more than just curing and than boiling to make a ham that is anywhere near a good commercially produced ham -

Boiled ham is made in a "wet" cure or brine made up of salt - sugar - and nitrite (NOT saltpeter) and Erythorbate (Erythorbate is required today by the FDA to avoide the development of "Nitrosamines" during digesting and makes Nitrite even safer) - Nitrite, if used in the correct measurements is totally harmless and you eat it every day, especially if you live healthy and eat lots of greens - but it is a highly toxic poison when used incorrectly -

The ham also needs to be injected with the brine to about 1/4 of its weight to achieve consistant coloring and preservation - for that you need a special syringe that looks like something a vet uses on a horse. A lot of the injected liquid will be removed during the "boiling" process since ham is a muscle and will contract during "boiling". Here is where cheap Ham gains a lot of weight by injecting a lot more brine so that after the "cooking" process a lot more weight is gained. The more you put in, the more youhave left.

We use commercial refridgeration to keep an exact temperature of 5C for the curing process which lasts about 5 days.

Boiled Ham is not really boiled - this would result in a very strange piece of meat - under "boiling" we understand 85C which is done in a thermostatically controlled waterbath

Now, if someone at home want's to make a really nice ham, make a baked ham - try and get a ham ON THE BONE - criss cross cut the fat some 2-3 mm deep- than rub/massage the ham very firmly with a mixture of coursly ground pepper/cloves/salt/bayleaves, place into a plastic container which you fill with 1/3 red wine vinegar and 2/3 red wine - leave to marinate in your refridgerator for a week (make sure the ham is totally submerged) - remove - dry with some kitchen tissue place on a rack and into your oven - bake slowly at 180C and base with the marinating liquid every 10 minutes until its done - best use a meat thermometer to ckeck

The result is well worth the effort and most defenately beats the Xmas Turkey- serve with cumberland sauce and later cold on sandwiches with cumberland sauce

Cumberland sauce

1 medium lemon - juice of

1 medium orange - juice of

the finely ground skin of one orange

5 heaped tablespoons good-quality redcurrant jelly

5 tablespoons port

1 heaped teaspoon mustard powder

1 teaspoon ground ginger

Again thanks for a great reply, sounds delicious.

BTW anyone now what Sodium nitrite & Erythorbate is in the Thai language

[LtLOS]

As I grew up around curing and smoking or own meats, and sausage making on our farm, it's something I learned a long time ago. When asked about it by friends I recommend they get started using a pre made product call Morton Tender quick. Its a pre-mixed cure that you can use very easily to make simple cured meats. There are a lot of recipes on the web using this. It is also easy to do small portions with it. Use 1 TBS per pound of meat. For instance take a large piece of pork loin, weigh and place in a plastic bag with the tenderquick, close the bag and rub the outside of the bag till the meat is coated. Leave in the fridge in an area that is about 36-40 degrees for about 4-6 days. Roll it around once in a while, the lower the temp the less cure action you will get, so its best to get a good thermometer and find that place in your fridge that is close to 38-40 degrees. Take out and slice, fry it up and you have a nice breakfast bacon. (Traditional canadian bacon has pea meal but we like it like this just fryed.) You can also then smoke it, etc.

http://www.mortonsalt.com/products/meatcur...enderquick.html

There's a lot of good info on the web about home curing and smoking, google and read, you can learn a lot. With the price of these products going up all the time, I find we are doing it more than ever now.

[mpdkorat]

Hi,

making Ham ..... my advice would be .. don't // the reasons are simple, it takes more than just curing and than boiling to make a ham that is anywhere near a good commercially produced ham -

Boiled ham is made in a "wet" cure or brine made up of salt - sugar - and nitrite (NOT saltpeter) and Erythorbate (Erythorbate is required today by the FDA to avoide the development of "Nitrosamines" during digesting and makes Nitrite even safer) - Nitrite, if used in the correct measurements is totally harmless and you eat it every day, especially if you live healthy and eat lots of greens - but it is a highly toxic poison when used incorrectly -

The ham also needs to be injected with the brine to about 1/4 of its weight to achieve consistant coloring and preservation - for that you need a special syringe that looks like something a vet uses on a horse. A lot of the injected liquid will be removed during the "boiling" process since ham is a muscle and will contract during "boiling". Here is where cheap Ham gains a lot of weight by injecting a lot more brine so that after the "cooking" process a lot more weight is gained. The more you put in, the more youhave left.

We use commercial refridgeration to keep an exact temperature of 5C for the curing process which lasts about 5 days.

Boiled Ham is not really boiled - this would result in a very strange piece of meat - under "boiling" we understand 85C which is done in a thermostatically controlled waterbath

Now, if someone at home want's to make a really nice ham, make a baked ham - try and get a ham ON THE BONE - criss cross cut the fat some 2-3 mm deep- than rub/massage the ham very firmly with a mixture of coursly ground pepper/cloves/salt/bayleaves, place into a plastic container which you fill with 1/3 red wine vinegar and 2/3 red wine - leave to marinate in your refridgerator for a week (make sure the ham is totally submerged) - remove - dry with some kitchen tissue place on a rack and into your oven - bake slowly at 180C and base with the marinating liquid every 10 minutes until its done - best use a meat thermometer to ckeck

The result is well worth the effort and most defenately beats the Xmas Turkey- serve with cumberland sauce and later cold on sandwiches with cumberland sauce

Cumberland sauce

1 medium lemon - juice of

1 medium orange - juice of

the finely ground skin of one orange

5 heaped tablespoons good-quality redcurrant jelly

5 tablespoons port

1 heaped teaspoon mustard powder

1 teaspoon ground ginger

Again thanks for a great reply, sounds delicious.

BTW anyone now what Sodium nitrite & Erythorbate is in the Thai language

I posed this question on the language forum and I got some very useful replies from Bambi.

See Link:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=156447

[keytwister]

Hi,

making Ham ..... my advice would be .. don't // the reasons are simple, it takes more than just curing and than boiling to make a ham that is anywhere near a good commercially produced ham -

Boiled ham is made in a "wet" cure or brine made up of salt - sugar - and nitrite (NOT saltpeter) and Erythorbate (Erythorbate is required today by the FDA to avoide the development of "Nitrosamines" during digesting and makes Nitrite even safer) - Nitrite, if used in the correct measurements is totally harmless and you eat it every day, especially if you live healthy and eat lots of greens - but it is a highly toxic poison when used incorrectly - etc. ....

Very interesting and useful article! Thanks for that.

During my restaurant "careers" of some 3 years I was used to cure pork legs to produce the German "Eisbein" with great success. However, that's long ago and I forgot the receipt for the pickling salt. As I remember it was something like 0.5 to 1% of Nitrite to be mixed with salt and a bit of sugar ? AND also Erythorbate ? (new to me...)

Do you, or does anyone know the exact mixture of all ingredients to - let's say - make some 10 ltrs. of pickle ? And where to get Nitrite and Erythorbate ? Any advise is very much appreciated. Thanks.

[SausageKing]

You should be carful with using nitrate or nitrite with out training as you or who ever may eat you produce maybe become ill or even worse.

seek professionall advice first.

Edited March 18, 2011 by SausageKing

[keytwister]

You should be carful ...............

well.... thanks, but no thanks ! Missed the topic ! That's not what I was asking for...

[theseahorse]

I'm very interested in making my own hams, but I need to get hold of Dinprasew ดินประสิว which is known as Potassium Nitrate, commonly referred to as Saltpeter, Chemical code Kn03

Dinprasew is a food preservative substance and colour fixation, it's also used to stop botulism bacteria when brining / making ham. It is white in colour and looks like salt.

Anyone any ideas where I can buy this product.

using Potassium Nitrate for any food stuff is strictly forbidden in Europe since the early 70s!

Banned since the 70's???

When first being taught basic Charcuterie in Europe about 15 years ago I was using Potassium Nitrate. It is closely monitored in mass produced food but it's not banned.

There has been a lot of discussion in the EU recently about whether it should be allowed in Organic foods or not and whether the use of it makes the food not strictly Organic, but the EU has just said that using Potassuim Nitrate will not stop foods being classed as Organic as the herbal cures avaliable don't work very well, so it's definitely not banned.

Potassium Nitrate is a dangerous chemical, hey it's in gunpowder, but as long as you're sensible and use it correctly then there really is no problem. If you really are worried about using it but want to make hams or bacon get some nitrate salt instead. Making your own hams and bacon is really easy and don't be put off by people scaremongering about using nitrate, a home cured ham is SO much better than water filled crap you get in the shops here.