Best Way To Stay 2-5 Years

[gubeman]

I have been to Thailand many times and worked there some years ago as a consultant. I have read the forum and see that visas can be complicated (as in most countries)

Here are my circumstances and any advise on the best way to proceed is appreciated.

1. 46 year old male with non thai wife

2. PhD degree in engineering so teaching is possible. I am expert in some manufacturing field if useful (expert visa?)

3. I have liquid funds that I can invest as I live comfortably off investment income now? (investment visa) Can I buy some government debt bonds or something? If needed I could reallocate some funds? I would be willing to invest 200,000$-500,000$ USD depending upon the risk of the investment.

4. I am willing to work some if necessary for visa purposes

Thanks for any help

p.s. Is there a good, relaible lawyer in BKK who could help with specifics?

[astral]

There appear to be two options based on the info you have give.

1. Look for a job:

(a)In the commercial area

(b)Teaching in University.

Your engineering qualification will suffice for either provided there is a suitable opening.

2. Invest $75,000 (3 million baht) in a new condominium or other approved investment

See example 1

Also

In order to qualify, you must have one of the following invested in Thailand:

1.Condominium investments totaling not less than 3 million Thai Baht.

2. Three million Baht invested in a government bank.

3. Three million Baht in government bonds.

You could also have a combination of two or all three of the options. For example,

Joe Schmoe has a condo worth 2.3 million baht and 700,000 baht in a government

bank savings account. He would get a one year renewable extension on his 90 day

non-imm O visa. To get the non-O visa, all you have to do is show your documents of your investments and you will be issued the visa.

Once you reach 50, the official age a retirement visa will be better, because you don't have to tie up nearly as much money in the country.

Go to www.imm3.police.go.th for more information. The man who gave me this information is Pol.Lt.Col.Chalermpong as recently as May 18, 2004.

[lopburi3]

Astral has outlined the visa situation and I would highly advise checking on teaching as engineering is a very undeserved category. You might want to ask in the Teaching area here and on other web sites if you have an interest in it.

You should not need a lawyer for visa reasons and you would not need to work but believe it might be fulfilling.

[Indo-Siam]

Hi -

I am not a lawyer (Dick the Butcher had it right in Henry VI - "'First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers..."). I am an American who runs a business described at www.indo-siam.com - and also at several function-based websites (www.thaistartup.com, www.thaitradedata.com, www.bangkokstaff.com - and also www.thaisupercool.com).

You have lots of options.

There are investment based visas of different types that involve (at different levels) investments of 3,000,000 (US $75K) or 10,000,000 baht (US $250,000). You are required to place your money into Thai fixed income securities - which are reasonably secure - up to the reliability of Thailand's government (with respect to strategic decisions - like nationalizing foreign assets). Pathetic returns - but you get to "hang out".

You can also obtain a one-year entry permit by investing money in a condo - in which you may then live. There is some issue of exit strategy there - but - does it really matter if you lose 25% on your investment after a year? Location makes or breaks this approach.

Your "expert" visa is described lower on the page at: p://www.boi.go.th/english/boi/services.html#invopp

I cannot evaluate your credentials - but they can. If your PhD is in a field such as applied engineering - telecommunications or such - you might be able to work something out.

There are two other options you have - one is to create a consulting company - fund it at US $50,000, and hire four Thais - a driver, a housekeeper, an admin person, and a language teacher/interpreter - and then run your company (slowly) into the ground. Along the way, you have a work permit and extended entry permit. Most of your investment comes back to you as salary. If you earn no revenue, you last maybe 18 months. If you earn trifling income, maybe you last 24 months. In the end, your company goes belly up. So what? Your net loss is pehaps US $25K. And - who knows - maybe you find a business niche, and you survive - or even prosper - long-term. You are not using this company to build wealth - just to justify your existence in Thailand. What do you care if it just limps along? You are actually living off unrelated income.

Finally, if you can find someone you trust - you can team up with an existing company that has the ability to sponsor a foreign work permit and entry permit extension. You arrange to regularly "invest" enough funding in that company, to pay your monthly qualifying salary each month - with a bit draining away to pay taxes. You become revenue netral to the employing company, and you get to pay perhaps 87% of your investment back to yourself as salary. Figure you would need to put in 730,000 baht per year, and you would get back about 640,000 baht in net salary. You get a paycheck - for which you need do nothing - or - you could actually work, as you see fit - you would now have a legal "umbrella"- which could also be a legal billing entity, to collect billings for you.

If the technology at www.thaisupercool.com (or www.thermoelectrictechnology.com) looks interesting to you, I can offer you a job under such an arrangement - with some potential revenue earning capability.

So - you have many possible approaches. Your best initial approach - you get a class B non-immigrant visa beforecoming to Thailand - and try to get your wife a matching Class O visa - claiming that you are going to Thailand to invest in a business.

Once you are here, and get established under one of the scenarios, you retain the flexibility to shift to another stratgey - or seize a fresh employment opportunity - as opportunities present thremselves.

You are welcome to come see visit my company - located as shown at:

http://www.thaistartup.com/contact.html We could help you with virtually any of the above approaches.

Good luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaistartup.com

[gubeman]

Thanks Lopburi for the great info,

I have degree from prestegious universities in US in mechanical engineering. I worked in heavy industry (steel and aluminum) and owned medium sized engineering firm. I sold the firm.

Any ideas how I would start to look for teaching position. I can teach undergraduates and graduates?

[gubeman]

Thanks Steve from indo-thai,

1. I looked at the boi site but didn't get any info about how to apply for an 'expert' visa. Is this something you could help with. Do you know someone who could help?

2. I assume I would have to pay Thai income taxes on the salary and perhaps other income? How much is it? For eg. if 50% of the 87% capital investment that comes back as salary is tax then it would less attrative than if 10%. If its low tax then its a great approach, a no brainer. If its high tax then 60% of the 50,000$ is lost?

I'll be in BKK over the Christmas break. Perhaps we can meet.

[Thaiquila]

I wouldn't usually suggest this, but if you are wealthy enough that a 1 million baht throwaway is no big deal to you, you might consider buying a Thailand Elite Card for 1 million baht. Then, you could get a 5 year visa (needing renewals every 90 days in Thailand) and not have to worry about visa for the term of your proposed stay.

Then, when you want to leave, you could attempt to sell the card (they are transferrable for a fee through the company), though it is doubtful you could get your mill back. If the card company went under, you would get nothing back, but it is an excellent bet that first five year visa would be good.

[Indo-Siam]

My company has never been involved with the BOI Expert Visa process. I know someone who could get you properly introduced to BOI, via very senior Thai Executive Branch officials. There would probably be a "gratuity" involved - one way or another - to the introductory middlemen - figure 50,000 baht or so - but on a "success fee" basis.

Here is a link to info on Thai personal income taxes:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6000.0.html

I pay myself the legal minimum for an American whose entry permit is extrended by reason of employment - 60,000 baht. After social fund and personal income tax withholding (married with one child), I net 53,783 baht. So - effectively, that's 10.356%.

As your salary would be used only to pay yourself back, and to justify your extended entry permit, you too would want to draw just 60,000 baht. Your "investment" would also be debited an additional 750 baht per month as the required matching company social fund contribution.

Thaiquila added another option that I had not considered.

In any case, what you really want to do is get established here legally, and spend a year or so acclimating and networking - and from that vantage point, THEN pursue a pemanent plan.

Sitting 10,000 km away (or wherever), and trying to develop a fixed five-year plan is not realistic. You just need to get your first year arrnged. After that, nature will take its course - and things will work out for you.

Someone else came up with this thought:

In the west, we are indoctrinated to adopt the view that everything moves in straight lines - if you want to accomplish something, pick your objective, make your plan, and then set out in the direction of your objective. Stay focused on that objective - always - and don't let anything divert you from your course. This is the best way to reach your objective.

Well, forget all that, when you come to Thailand (or - maybe all of Asia). Thailand doesn't work in straight lines - it works in circles. The way to proceed is to pick an objective, and start out in that direction. Then, when life starts pulling you off your course, don't fight it - go with the flow. Define the momentum that is carrying you - in a direction you didn't even intend to go - and figure out how to harness it, and reinforce it, and derrive success from it . Eventually - incredible as this may seem - the "circle" of life will sooner or later probably deposit you smack on top of your ORIGINAL objective, but arriving there from a totally unexpected direction.

I have an intresting story to tell you over a few Christmas beers about how I got to where I am now - I started Indo-Siam Technical Services Co. Ltd. in February 2002, as a manufacturers rep firm in the steel products manufacturing sector - joining the Iron and Steel Institute of Thailand (ISIT), and exhibiting at the Intermach tradeshow that first year. Well, life (and profit) took me in a completely different direction - and I went with the flow. We are now doing something COMPLETELY different - but behind the scenes, a minor, tiny sub-piece of that original business still had a feeble heart-beat, and that obscure bit of technology (which was ahead of its time) is now about to become my major personal income source - and if the trend continues, it may become my primary business. The strangeness of the gyrations that yielded this outcome are REALLY bizarre.

At any rate, I am now convinced that the key to success as a westerner in Asia is to loosen up your overly rational thinking, and stay flexible. Three years ago, my world seemed to be plagued with all sorts of problems. Now, three years later, my brain has become reprogrammed in how it handles obstacles and problems. Now, when I encounter a problem, I immediately start looking for ways to turn the problem into an opportunity to exploit. Because, I now undrstand that my company is in the business of helping other people solve problems. If I am now facing a problem, I immediately look to see if my company can develop a systematric way to help other people solve that same problem. That is how my company got into a number of our current actuvities - website development, book publishing, personnel recruiting, brand identity creation, property management - and even ....... sponsoring www.bangkokbirthdaycake.com .

I have a lot more fun now than I used to have!!!!!!

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[lopburi3]

Thanks Lopburi for the great info,

I have degree from prestegious universities in US in mechanical engineering. I worked in heavy industry (steel and aluminum) and owned medium sized engineering firm.  I sold the firm.

Any ideas how I would start to look for teaching position. I can teach undergraduates and graduates?

There is a teaching in Thailand thread here that you could ask questions on and there is a teaching site LINK that has much more information and people who can point you in the right direction. It can be shark infested waters at times but if you just ignore the chafe you should be able to get good guidance.

[Khun ?]

Sounds interesting and very similar to me but I am single and just a bit older. You need something that would also give the extra baggage a visa also. Sounds like you are using fixed income investments. I am interested in talking about that if you are. I have one holding that provides me $2K a month

and will be adding to it in the next few months waiting on dips in the share price. Be careful about loaning money to anyone or business.

I have just had a court date and have another one in a few months.

Of course the american is in hiding but his wife made a fool out of herself on the first court appearance is what I am told ( presented false info to the court). Be careful of what you do Indo Siam (Steve) and Sunbelt Asia always provide good info to many. Something that may be of interest I knew a couple guys that got a sponsor letter to obtain a 1 year visa to look at buying a business which was a small guest house. They did buy the guest house months after getting the visa and it was not much but if I remember correctly they did have to leave country every 90 days. They were teaching in another country so they were rotating in and out every 90 days anyways. Since you are not far off 50 you may want to get a multi

entry tourist visa for the first year and see how you like how things are going and

what area you like best. I do not think you will find teaching at the rates they pay worth your time and it will most likely be a hinderance to you and the Mrs. Then again everyone is different.

[gubeman]

Thanks again Steve from Indo-China,

All scenarios sound plausible. I would like to see your themo-mechanical devices some time. What you and others are saying that the first step is a B class visa for me (working visa) and O class for my wife (non-working). Then after arriving work one of several scenarios.

1. Are the B class and O class for my wife which I get here in US difficult. Should I hire a professional to work on them? If I claim I am going to buy a business then it should be approved?

2. Seems like your scenario of gradually investing and then taking a minimum qualifing salary is easy and has advantages. I have the opportunity to pay the invest from a third party European corporation so that the linkage cannot be determined. What is the minimum qualifing salary? 60,000/month? Will this provide a visa for her also?

Thanks

[Indo-Siam]

You can apply for visa by mail, directly from Thai Embassy in Washington - see details at: http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/visa/visa.htm

When I dealt with that Embassy (in early 2000, from MInnesota), they processed things very quickly - I got my passport back with visa in less than one week.

You can try to obtain a one-year, multiple-entry Class B visa by telling Embassy that you are coming here to launch your own business - I know people who have successfully gotten visas that way. But I do not know current status - you may be able to find out by a phone call to the Consular Section at the Embassy.

If it turns out that you do need a formal invitation letter (as stated at the weblink)

then I can supply you with an employment letter and supporting documents, saying that you will be coming here to invest in and work for my company - that will support your visa application. Then - when you get here - things may or may not work out that way. But you will have the visa.

If you want to proceed this way, send me a conventional e-mail - I will then send you the letter format, to show you the info I need from you.

You request a Class B visa, your wife requests a Class O visa (send the applications together). At this end, if you can arrange employment at a qualifying salary of 60,000 baht, for an employer eligible to sponsor a long-term entry permit, that will take care of both you and your wife.

Good luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaistartup.com

[Crash999]

My simple suggestion is to start small... On a tourist visa you will have to leave every 90 days- which is only 4x a year. With Angkor Wat, Singapore, Hong Kong, Bali, and lots of other interesting places a short flight away one can easily see taking 4 vacations outside the country a year. If you fall in love w/Thailand then look at the investment visa... until you're 50 and then move over to a retirement visa.

[gubeman]

When I am 50 my wife will be 30. Can I brig her also on retirement visa.

[Thaiquila]

When I am 50 my wife will be 30. Can I brig her also on retirement visa.

Yes,

You can include your wife on the retirement visa even if she is under 50. I believe she gets her own visa in her passport, and you only have to meet ONE qualification.

For example, if qualifying on bank account based on current levels, 800K baht, not 1,600,000 baht. Pretty fair deal, huh?

[DaveYo]

Hate to break into this discussion, but please don't bother to buy the Elite Card or you will be indeed scammed into becoming the Elite Joke.

As of your qualifications, go for Expert Permit (on your work permit) and stick to the Multi- Entry B Visa One Year Deal. Forget about going for the O Visa. If you do then you will tie yourself into the Banking Requirements.

If your an American, use the Treaty of Amity and claim yourself the total ownership and invest only 2 Million Baht, and if you want if your married to a Thai person you can invest 1 million Baht and start up your own little company. Then you can hang around for 2 to 5 years since that is your main objective. While that is in the works, you can if you wish look around for some Major Company willing to pay you 65,000 Baht monthly since it is now Thai Law as your salary. With that then they will take care of the work permit hassles and you can enjoy your life here.

So first stick with your objectives and keep it simple. If you get complicated, these Thai people here will take you for a nice ride with a smile on their face and be working on your bank account. Understand.

Good luck

Daveyo

[Khun Bob]

What does it take to get an expert visa and what is it good for ?

I have a PhD in software engineering and I am considering conducting research at Thai Uni and would like to have the opportunity to work as well.

Thanks

[gubeman]

Good advise DaveYo. I would never consider an obvious scam like 'Elite'. I lived and worked in Thailand for a few years and I'm aware of the tendendacy to scam. Can I obtain a B visa (business? without an invitation). Is an O visa is a non-working associated with another visa? It requires some bank account deposits?

[dr. kc]

What a great philosophical thread! Spot on IndoSiam...

gubeman:

Try contacting some of the Thai universities and get linked with them before coming out - there's a list of all thai uni's here:

http://www.internationaleducationmedia.com...niversities.htm

I also have PhD. in Software Engineering, and work at one of the uni's listed there. From my experience, research is not as well supported as in Western Uni's though, so be careful you don't get stuck into a purely teaching role (unless thats what your interested in). My contract is coming to an end at the end of the year, so I'm looking around for other options...

All the best.

[astral]

I wouldn't usually suggest this, but if you are wealthy enough that a 1 million baht throwaway is no big deal to you, you might consider buying a Thailand Elite Card for 1 million baht. Then, you could get a 5 year visa (needing renewals every 90 days in Thailand) and not have to worry about visa for the term of your proposed stay.

Then, when you want to leave, you could attempt to sell the card (they are transferrable for a fee through the company), though it is doubtful you could get your mill back. If the card company went under, you would get nothing back, but it is an excellent bet that first five year visa would be good.

I would not go for the Elite card.

See today's news report.

[phormio]

...

gubeman:

Try contacting some of the Thai universities and get linked with them before coming out - there's a list of all thai uni's here:

http://www.internationaleducationmedia.com...niversities.htm

...

Thanks for the url with universities - a great resource for someone looking for academic work. You ought to post it over on the Teaching thread.